Heng Chiang Meng
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, Sir, whilst I agree with the approach taken by the Government, especially when I personally think that the economy may well recover in the second half of next year, I would like to ask the Minister whether he could take steps to rectify the situation on the ground, of which I am very deeply concerned.”
“Witness the prices of PCs when they first appeared and the prices of PCs now. Also, without an extensive infrastructure, motoring with a hybrid car will cause more inconvenience for the owner.”
“Sir, I did address you as Chairman. I only once, earlier on, addressed you as Deputy Speaker. Most of the comments I am going to say have been covered by the two earlier speakers. I just want to add that I understand that Newater is biologically very clean.”
“I dare say that Singapore is kept litter-free by the street cleaners, and not because there are no litter bugs. So the real long-term solution is to inculcate good environmental behaviour as part of our habits.”
“For example, one way could be to rank the distance of each household from the school, and the ranking to be used to allocate the available places based on the household nearest to the school having the pole position.”
“Sir, I find it difficult to understand why the Senior Minister of State should bring in other people's arguments, like people being sick, one parent looking after so many children. We are talking about distances away from the school. Let us not bring in other factors. But, in any case, her mind is already made up.”
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“I see that the law covers a very wide area. They have got a restraining order, and the courts can restrain the order. I even see that the definition of "absconded person" is a very novel definition in that an absconded person can be defined as a person who even dies and he is considered to have absconded. This period of six months, I do not know whether it is too short to consider a person as having absconded. I suppose the Minister does know that, in law, a person is presumed dead only after seven years. So between "seven years" and "six months", six months appears to be a rather short period to define a person as an absconded person if he is just missing or cannot be traced for six months. Sir, I am sure this Act was drafted after the events of the Teh Cheang Wan Affair. With this Act, the Government really has got teeth in dealing with corrupt persons. So at this juncture I would like to ask the Minister whether action will now be taken against Liaw Teck Kee, the person who had shared the benefits of corruption with the late Minister. And also whether action will be taken, of course, against the estate of one of the developers of the River View Hotel. Of course, now with the definition of "absconded persons", action can be taken against the assets of Teh Cheang Wan's son, Teh Kwan Sek, who has absconded. Perhaps the Minister could clarify these points.”
“On the last point, Mr Lee said that if more were added, Singapore might end up like a house where the burglar alarm system was tripped more often by the occupants, not by the burglars. Obviously, I think we are going to set up more burglar alarms. And I am for this law. There are three ways to prevent corruption. One, of course, is public opinion against corrupt practices. The society will condemn heavily those that practise corruption. The other, of course, is deterrence, a jail sentence or a fine. But apparently these tools are not strong enough. I think this law with the confiscation of the benefits cover the third point. The corrupt person must not enjoy his ill-gotten gains. So it covers all the points which will prevent a person from being corrupt. Sir, I see that this law is quite comprehensive and I hear that it is going to the Select Committee. Perhaps there is only one point which is not very clear, and that is, in regard to a corrupt person who is either about to be made a bankrupt or is already made a bankrupt and his assets are in the hands of the Public Trustee. I think this point will have to be really clarified because a person who goes into bankruptcy because he owes many creditors sums of money and these creditors may be genuine creditors who have supplied goods or who have supplied services to the bankrupt and it is fair only that he gets his share back. So if there is no clear-cut way of distinguishing or tracing the corrupt money, and the money that is actually left over in business, then I think there will be a problem area there. I think this point will have to be really looked into. Sir, as regards the other points, I think they are commendable. Now we have this confiscation order for persons who are convicted of corrupt offences.”
“Is Singapore corruption-free at the moment? Apparently it is not, otherwise we would not be here to pass this Bill. The Prime Minister in January in this House last year has said that "the strongest deterrent is in a public opinion which censures and condemns corruption". Our public opinion obviously is still not that strong against corruption. We have not built up that social structure, attitudes, values, which really condemn corruption. Perhaps the Government at this juncture should take steps to build up such a public opinion against corruption. This is where, I think, SBC drama serials can come in handy. Such dramas could depict not only those persons who are corrupt are censured and condemned and suffer by society, but the shame of that corruption will inevitably also affect members of their families. Sir, another problem of corruption in Singapore is that to a certain extent many who come here are transient in that they do not have roots sunk into our society very deeply. So those people who come here, they have made a name for themselves and get into a position and they might be tempted to go into a corrupt way to enrich themselves. They think, "Well, if they have enough, they will just pack up and go". Or even if they get caught they can still have their ill-gotten gains with them and after a jail sentence they can go off and enjoy the money somewhere. In the last debate on this Teh Cheang Wan Affair, I think the Prime Minister said that it was not necessary to have more laws. Apparently, the Government has changed its view on this point. His comment was that there was no need to add more trip wires to check against corruption.”
“In UK, Sir, the Minister has already distributed a comparative table on the Bill and the UK Drug Trafficking Offences Act of 1986. I have distributed an extract from a Background Brief issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London dated December 1987 on this particular Act in UK. Sir, with your indulgence, if we look at the extract, I will not read it but those who are reading it, if you will just remove the words like "British police and Customs and Excise" and substitute, let us say, "Singapore Government", the word "traffickers" into "the corrupt persons", the words "drug trafficking" into "corrupt practices", you will see that this explanation where under the Act the authorities can "obtain information", have his "assets restrained" and can issue a "confiscation order" applies exactly to the Bill in front of us. So if these countries can have such legislation with such underlying principles, why should we object to Singapore using the same principles to ensure that we will remain as much as possible and as long as possible a corrupt-free society. Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to speak. Sir, I rise in support of this Bill. Sir, the aim of Singapore is to build a nation of excellence and I believe that one of the objectives of excellence must be a corruption-free society. If Singapore is to endure as a nation, then we must strive for this objective, that is, a corrupt-free society. Corruption, as we have seen and as spoken by other speakers, is the root of the problem of many Third World countries. They remain poor and undeveloped and, worst of all, they are unable to get off the ground in their economic development because their efforts are eaten away by the social disease of corruption.”
“Surely, Sir, this cannot be considered retroactive because if the conviction had already taken place before the commencement of this Act, then this Act does not apply at all. Perhaps the Minister could explain. Sir, on the second point of presuming absconders to be guilty, the issue is not guilty of corruption. Due to the absence of the offender, it would be difficult to have a trial. The issue is that of finding whether the absconder has unexplained wealth, unexplained assets, which of course he is not in a position to explain and which neither of his friends, relatives or people close to him can explain. Sir, this is more to ensure that the ill-gotten gains of corruption do not benefit those who are involved in corruption. It is the confiscation of unexplained assets, wealth, that nobody can or will explain. Sir, this therefore brings me to the third issue, that of unexplained assets. As the Minister has said, this is not a new concept. To support his arguments, I would like to illustrate the use of this principle in three countries; countries with reputations of having many democratic and liberal institutions to uphold the rule of law. Sir, in the United States, under their tax evasion Act or laws, a person can be considered as evading tax if he has wealth beyond his means or if he lives beyond his means. The Government does not even have to prove that a person is evading tax but rather that if he lives beyond his means he can be convicted of evading tax. Further, in the US, tax evasion is a jailable offence. In Hong Kong, under its Prevention of Corruption laws, a Crown servant, if he is living beyond his means, he can be convicted of corruption.”
“Should the Government spend more public money, more public time, trying to prove each and every act of corruption to recover the ill-gotten gains of corruption even after the person has been convicted of corruption? Yet, if the Government will not do this, then obviously corruption pays. It does because a corrupt person can admit to one single act of corruption. Restitute the money from that single act, go to prison for that act and then later come out to enjoy the ill-gotten gains from the many other acts he may have committed. I am glad that this Bill covers this loophole. Sir, like the Minister, I do not want to go into the details of the Bill for the same reason stated by him; because it is being referred to a Select Committee. There are, however, three underlying principles that I would like to bring up. These are: (1) the so-called retroactive nature of the proposed Bill; (2) the so-called assumption that an absconder is presumed to be guilty; (3) The assumption that the unexplained assets of a convicted person is deemed to have been derived from corruption. Sir, on the first point, is the proposed Bill really retroactive? Sir, as I read clause 3, it clearly states that the Bill does not apply to those corrupt offences in respect of which proceedings have been completed, that is, the person has been convicted of the corrupt offences before the commencement of the proposed law. Sir, I am not a lawyer but from my layman's viewpoint, I thought the issue is not whether the person has committed the offence or not and at what time, but rather the issue is when the conviction takes place. It simply states, Sir, that if the conviction takes place after the commencement of this Act, then this Act will apply to that particular case.”
“Sir, I rise in support of the Bill and I would like to thank the Minister for referring this Bill to a Select Committee. This subject is of wide public interest and a reference to a Select Committee will enable the public to voice their views and concerns, if any. Sir, this Bill must be looked at in the context of Singapore. Our strong anti-corruption policy and stance have served us well, extremely well I must add, since 1959. There is every indication that this philosophy, or rather way of life, will continue to be a fundamental pillar, not only of our economy but of every part of our life and our society. Last Sunday, there was an article in the newspaper on this subject. Like the Member for Chong Boon, I disagree with the thrust of this article but credit must be given to the article for there are at least two paragraphs which I agree with the writer. I quote: 'Now of course the Bill will serve to reinforce what Singaporeans know only too well - that corruption does not pay and must not be seen to pay. Not for the giver of bribes, or the taker. To the extent that the Bill protects further the integrity of the system and Singapore's well-deserved reputation as a place where palms need not be greased for things to be done, it deserves every support.' Rightly so, Sir, it deserves every support. It must be driven home that nobody, absolutely nobody, including relatives and friends of the corrupt person can ever benefit from the ill-gotten gains of corruption. Sir, as the Minister earlier said, this is the case now. But now the Government can only recover from specific instances in which it can prove corruption. My question is this.”
“Sir, the Minister earlier reiterated the objectives of the CPF. He said that the investments in gold, shares and housing are not actually the main objectives but instruments of investment. I do not think this is wrong. What is wrong is that he did not include investment in education as an investment. Sir, let me say, very breifly, what is an investment. If I put some money now into something with the hope of getting something back in return in future but with a risk of losing that money, then obviously that is investment. This applies to shares, to gold, or even to a house. I think the same definition can also apply to investment in the children's education. Sure, my child may not pass. My child may not even support me in my old age. But that is a risk I take when I go into any form of investment. For argument, he also said that the scheme of using CPF for education is not bankable. I agree with him on this point, Sir. It is not bankable. But how can he compare the relationship of a parent and a child to that of a banker and a client? Obviously, it is not bankable. I may not know my client well but I know my child. It is not bankable but it is "parentable". Sir, I am prepared to take the risk of being parentable. And as a parent, I want to decide for my child. This is the crux of the matter. Although the Member for Chong Boon did compare this to the graduate mother scheme, it is a wrong comparison. In the graduate mother scheme, we are talking about competition for scarce resources, ie, places in good primary schools. But here we are not talking about competition for scarce resources. We are talking about allowing CPF members to use their own money.”
“It is true, is it not? Those who want to educate themselves cannot do so if they cannot get into NUS. Futurologists are saying that today's world of nation states would give way to tomorrow's world of trans-national corporations. Sir, if the Minister wants to ensure that Singapore has its share of trans-national corporations in the brave new world of tomorrow, I think the first step is to ensure that our citizens are given every opportunity, including using their own money in their CPF, to educate themselves or their children to their full potential. Only then can we have the base necessary to dream of our own local trans-national corporations. Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan, with higher percentages of tertiary educated population, have shown the way. We can do no better than to follow these examples. The Chairman: Mr Lai is not here. Mr Chiam.”
“It is more serious than no, Sir. It equals to the fact that the bulk of our population, of our citizens, will remain hewers of wood and drawers of water for the multi-national corporations. Some hon. Members: True.”
“So let us not have this type of spurious arguments like saying that if we do this and that, others will follow. It does not necessarily follow. Before I go the next point, I would just like to say that I support the Member for Paya Lebar when he spoke about people who want to further their education. After all, although we provide good facilities for those who continue with education from primary school onwards, we do not really provide good facilities for those who want to further their education after a break. Sir, I now come to one conclusion that could be drawn from in respect of various policies that have been announced or discussed in this Chamber. Sir, factor A is that about 50% of university applicants who qualify are not accepted in the NUS. Factor B is that the number of places in NUS is dependent on manpower projections. Factor C is ministerial comments that multi-national companies find it easier to employ university graduates in Singapore than qualified technical workers. Sir, factor D is still the current "no" to the proposal to use CPF for education. Sir, the equation seems to be this. Factor A plus Factor B plus Factor C plus Factor D equals --- Some hon. Members: "No".”
“Sir, I spoke on this topic in 1985 and 1986. In 1987, I gave the Minister some breathing space by not bringing up this topic. Despite his brilliant exposition in 1987, my views today still remain the same. I think CPF should be allowed to be used for education. Sir, from what I heard Members who spoke against the proposal earlier, there appears to be two very strong arguments. One is that it is not fair to the poor who are more concerned with primary and secondary education for their children. It seems to me that this is, in fact, popular politics; every time speaking for the poor. But, Sir, look deeper. It is a very spurious argument. As the Member for Cairnhill has said earlier, the cost of primary and secondary education in Singapore is not a problem. Tertiary education is a problem. We have not heard of primary school applicants being rejected because of lack of spaces in the primary schools or PSLE students who have passed their PSLE and denied a place in a secondary school. But we know what is the rejection rate of those who apply for entry into our NUS. In fact, I would say that the facilities for the primary and secondary education in Singapore, thanks to the Minister for Education, are superb. Sir, another argument against the use of CPF for higher education is that of possible abuse and pressure on the Government to provide more. This Government is well known for its forte in preventing abuse. Surely, if the Minister is willing to consider this proposal, the methods and procedures of preventing abuse are very well known to those in the civil service and can be easily implemented. And pressure? Sir, this is really a laugh. Has this Government ever given in to any form of pressure when it is not in the long-term interest of the country?”
“Sir, I think this quota allocation is not new in Singapore. I believe in Hong Kong, for example, the quotas are not allocated by the Government with a fee but to private companies. I believe there is quite a lot of sub-selling of quota between companies. In this respect, the company buys the quota from another company and pays a price. It is no different from paying the price to the Government in terms of the 4%. I do not know whether the figures quoted by the Minister are correct or not or whether the figures quoted or pointed out by the Member for Whampoa are correct, but I would like the Minister to tell us, if he can, not now but at a later date, what sort of prices are being transacted in Hong Kong; whether they are more than 4% of the export value or not, or less than 4%. So in this case we can really have a good feel of whether 4% is really the correct price in the international market.”
“Sir, I do not think anybody really discredits or says that JTC has not done its work over the past years. But I am saying at this point in time, perhaps JTC should get out of this factory renting business. If the Minister is sincere about this, just like the URA that parcels out land for tender for building of office spaces, the JTC can also parcel out land, large tracts of land, for industrial parks. This is not something new. It has been done in many countries and on a very successful basis too. BG Lee Hsien Loong: I take the Member's suggestion seriously and I will ask MTI to look into it.”
“Sir, the problem here is that JTC should not, be in the business of building factories. For example, I get a lot of complaints from my constituents about the rental levels of this Government building or that Government building. But I never get problems from a constituent complaining to me that the rent of a private sector building is too high. In this case, whatever the rental levels set, I believe that businessmen, being what they are, will always say that the levels are too high but never too low. Therefore, I would really like to suggest to the Minister that perhaps JTC should lease out the land to private operators to build the factories. They can always put the specifications if they want to and the type of industries that could be allowed in the area. Once the properties are owned by the private sector businesses which can be for, say, 30 years' lease, 60 years or even 99 years, then I think we will not have this type of complaints about the JTC rent being too high. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, I strongly sympathize with the sentiments of the Member for Jalan Kayu. However, much as the Government would like to avoid unpleasant tasks and odium, it is not the principal responsibility of the Government to avoid dirty jobs. We have got to do it because JTC is able to build factories more efficiently, more swiftly and more responsively than the private sector can. If it were not so, we would be happy to allow any private sector individual or organization, including the Singapore Democratic Party, to take a piece of land, build and compete with the JTC. [Mr Chiam See Tong interrupted.] There you are! Sir, there is no penalty to remarks which carry no responsibility.”
“It does not touch the brains, the mastermind, behind the drug trafficking, because these are the people who actually plan the operation and you will never catch them in the streets. If their profits are confiscated, then we remove really one big source, in fact, the main reason for drug trafficking. In this respect, the confiscation of profits from the masterminds will surely complement the death penalty for the couriers. This is really nothing new. As a matter of fact, we have already before us a Bill of similar principle. I am referring to the Corruption (Confiscation of Benefits) Bill read for the First time in this Chamber on 15th March 1988. Sir, for conviction relating to the evasion of tax, the Comptroller of Inland Revenue, in fact,has the power to recover up to three times the amount of tax evaded. I would really like to ask the Minister that surely the war against drugs is just as serious as corruption and tax evasion, if not more. Would the Minster please consider this?”
“But the point is that if, due to all these official policies, not of the Home Affairs Ministry but of the other Government authorities, the ex-addict becomes an addict again - and speaking to those who have gone through this, it is very easy in times of stress for an ex-addict to become an addict again - then the problem obviously reverts to the Home Affairs Ministry. Hence, I would like the Minister for Home Affairs to consider this suggestion, ie, to establish and head an inter-ministry committee to examine this problem of rehabilitation. The drug addict is not a criminal, Sir, and should not be treated as such. If the Government expects society to treat these unfortunate people sympathetically, the Government must first take the lead. The policies of some departments, I am afraid, are obviously not encouraging in this aspect. Sir, coming back to the issue of cutting off the supply of drugs to the market, I must admit that in Singapore we have one of the best systems in the world not only in enforcement measures but also in legislating the death penalty for convicted traffickers. However, Sir, in the war against drug traffickers, nothing, in my opinion, is too draconic. In addition to what we already have, I would like to recommend to the Minister to consider legislating the confiscation of profits arising from drug trafficking. We all know that the profits from drug trafficking are obscene. I read some place that a kilogram of heroin in the source country costing about $4,000-$5,000 can actually fetch up to $1 million in the street in the destination country. Sir, take away these profits and we remove the main reason for drug trafficking. The death penalty, I agree, has been effective. But, Sir, it only normally hits the couriers.”
“Sir, let me explain. A person has certain skills, he gets a job. But sometimes certain jobs require approval by the Government authorities. Let me illustrate. If this ex-addict wants to be a taxi driver, a bus driver, a school bus driver or even if he wants to be a driver to transport workers to and from their place of work and home, he has to get a vocational driving licence from the ROV which is a special licence given to a person to do a job, a vocation. If he wants to be a hawker, he needs a permit or he needs a stall from the Hawkers Department. Even if he wants to be a despatch driver for a private sector com- pany and his job requires him to go into areas such as the airport, the PSA and what the various Government authorities call "sensitive areas", whatever that means, he requires a permit too. I could go on with more examples. But what I have just said should be sufficient. If the fact that the applicant is an ex-addict is not considered in determining his suitability in the granting of these licences and permits, then I can say at least the Government is sincere in its attempts to rehabilitate these unfortunate citizens. However, although I cannot say for some of the other departments, I know that it is a policy of the Registry of Vehicles not to grant any form of vocational driving licence to those with drug records. Sir, before you rule me out of order and say this should be brought up under the Ministry of Communications and Information, let me say that I am only bringing up the ROV example and the policy as an illustration. The question that still remains is whether other authorities have such similar policies.”
“Sir, the control of drug abuse by the Ministry of Home Affairs usually falls into three broad categories: 1. Cutting off the supply of drugs; 2. Elimination of demand by users through a host of educational and social programmes, police supervision and such like; and 3. When these two areas fail and the person becomes an addict, then when the addict is apprehended, a programme of rehabilitation is the third stage in the war against drugs. Sir, I have no complaints against these series of measures by the Ministry of Home Affairs except that - I will bring it up later - I have a suggestion to reinforce the measures in the first category. But now, Sir, I think that the combat against drugs is not simply just a matter of the Ministry alone but I would like to stress to this House, especially some of the Cabinet Ministers, that the war against drugs is also the responsibility of the Government in particular and society in general. That is why, Sir, I think what is missing from the three-pronged attack is a fourth area, that of post-rehabilitation. Sir, what do I mean by post-rehabilitation? I would like to ask: what happens when an addict successfully completes a programme at the drug rehabilitation centre and becomes an ex-addict? Surely, Sir, the purpose of all that the Ministry has done up to this point in the DRC is to help the drug addict to kick the habit, to kick the addiction, so that he can once again become a useful member of society. But then what happens when such a person tries to fit back into society? Obviously, the first thing he tries to do is to get a job but unfortunately the profile of the addict is usually that of a person of low education and low skills and employment available to him is usually in the areas where Government approval is a pre-requisite.”
“Sir, actually I submitted two cuts under this particular drug enforcement topic and so I beg your indulgence if I exceed my time. But, nevertheless, I will try to be as speedy as possible.”
“Sir, is not the present population policy based precisely on that premise of treating the women as biological bodies for more babies?”
“In that case, may I ask the Acting Minister whether his policy on this issue is congruent with the setting up of fertility clinics and the long waiting list of couples wanting adoption of babies. May I ask him to look more into ways and means of trying to match the unwanted babies to those who want babies, and not simply to look at the legislation and simply looking at abortion as a final solution to this problem? Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: Sir, those two issues are not incongruous. In the first place, I think it would be most unkind to treat women just as biological bodies for having babies and to try to match the ability of women to have babies with the wishes of those who wish to have babies, but who are unable to have them. The legislation allowing legalized abortions meets a specific need, and that is, that certain women, for various reasons, do not wish to carry on with the pregnancy. The Ministry will try its best to counsel them and to persuade them to carry on with the pregnancy. I think that is the best that we can do, in the interest of the pregnant mothers.”
“May I ask the Acting Minister for Health whether he wishes to consider aborting the Abortion Act?”
“Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and I would like to beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The Chairman: Amendment No. (16). Encik Othman.”
“I would like to suggest that the Ministry of National Development consider a covered walkway, or even perhaps an underground tunnel, from Raffles City to Marina Square.”
“We can look at examples like the Rocks in Sydney and the Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco area. These are areas where good imaginative use has been made of the old warehouses. Sir, the third point I would like to bring up is that, although in the plans for the district, they talk about the district being pedestrian-orientated, the planners should also ensure that access to the area be not only for cars but also be pedestrian-orientated. For this, I would like the Minister to consider, for example, the distance between Raffles City with a MRT station there, and Marina Square. It is only a short distance from Raffles City to Marina Square, across St Andrew's Road, yet, Sir, when it rains it can be a very long distance.”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head T be reduced by $10 in respect of Code TE 1000 of the Main Estimates. Sir, recently the Ministry of National Development announced plans for the provision of a Cultural and Civic District in the City. I wish to congratulate the Minister for this bold move. In one step, in my opinion, he makes a quantum leap towards Vision 1999. Truly, this is a momentous move. I can still remember one Minister's comments in the late 1960s, when asked on the paucity of funds devoted to culture, and his reply then was, "We cannot afford culture." I hope that all in Singapore will try to contribute towards this project by sending in their suggestions to the Ministry or to URA. On my part, may I ask the Minister to look at the following three aspects. First is that on the border of this proposed district, there is a Central Fire Station. I do not believe that this particular location is really suitable for a fire station. I would like to propose that those in charge of the Master Plan try to convert this Central Fire Station into a Fire Museum and perhaps relocate the Central Fire Station elsewhere. Second is that although the plan calls for the District to be extended all the way over Fort Canning to the banks of the Singapore River, there has been no mention about the extent to which the old disused warehouses along the Singapore River will be used. In this respect, although these warehouses might be buildings of little redeeming value, nevertheless they are part of Singapore's history, and perhaps a lot of uses could be put into these warehouses. I would like the Minister to consider that these warehouses be reconverted to other uses.”
“I would like to believe that these inconveniences were made by some bureaucrats in airconditioned offices who were more concerned with the beauty and simplicity of their plans than the inconveniences bestowed on the people. Sir, I hope the Minister will rectify this.”
“POSB would be interested in that. But I would say that those people who can ill-afford to have all these types of payment systems or payment instruments of cheques and Giro can also ill-afford the bus fares required to travel now from various parts of Ang Mo Kio to the central office or to the HDB head office. Moreover, there is only a small spiral staircase leading to the Ang Mo Kio office. In fact, it is very difficult for various residents to go into the Ang Mo Kio office to pay for these services or to obtain these services because, as I said before, this office is simply not capable of catering to the large number of people now seeking these services. Sir, there are also more important results. I believe that the splitting of these functions has led to lesser personal contact between the residents and the grassroots leaders of the constituencies on one hand and the HDB staff and the staff of the town councils on the other. The existing arrangement for these payments could have also contributed to the arrears problems, as the inconvenience of having to make monthly visits to the administrative office may encourage residents to pay at longer intervals. I think there is definitely a need to maintain some form of payment system at the town council offices, and I am very sure that the town councils will be prepared to do these services on behalf of the HDB albeit for a fee, of course. Sir, the town council project has shown itself to be a success. But if I have a suspicious mind, I would think that such inconveniences were planned to ensure the failure of town councils. But fortunately I do not.”
“Sir, for all these type of services, previously a resident could just go to the Area Office and as I said before, there were four in Ang Mo Kio. But now, for all these services, they have to go to one single office in Ang Mo Kio or, in the case of the hawker stalls, they have to go to the HDB head office. Surely, if nothing else, we can straightaway see that one office now to take care of all these functions that were previously performed by four offices seems to me that not only have extra travelling distance been added for the residents seeking these services but, more importantly, that the location or the place or the capacity of that one office is simply insufficient to cater for the services needed by the residents of the whole of Ang Mo Kio. Of course, the HDB has introduced some measures to reduce these inconveniences, such as payment by Giro, by post and by cheque. But I would like to ask, does everybody in Ang Mo Kio or every resident in Ang Mo Kio have a banking account that they can either pay by Giro or by cheque? An hon. Member: POSB.”
“Sir, the town council project, as my Town Council Chairman has said, was launched on 1st September 1986 in Ang Mo Kio New Town. This pilot project, I presume, will continue until the legislation on town councils is passed in Parliament. So I do not propose now to go into the benefits, the long-term objectives and the overall desirability of town councils. I think there will be ample time for such discussion when the Bill for town councils comes up for debate. However, in the light of the Government's records in governing Singapore, surely one of the benefits of any new proposal and any new move must be that it should provide greater convenience to the people. Looking at the project in particular, the people living in Ang Mo Kio should have greater convenience and not inconvenience, with the introduction of town council into their lives. Sir, instead what do we have here? Let me list just some of the services to the people which previously were peformed by four HDB Area Offices located in four different parts of Ang Mo Kio and now are performed by either one HDB administrative office in Ang Mo Kio or at the HDB head office. Sir, these are some of the services that were originally performed by the Area Offices before the introduction of town councils: (1) sale of season parking tickets; (2) payment of parking fines and surcharges; (3) payment of rents, loans, service and conservancy charges; (4) application for alterations and additions to premises; (5) enquiries on HDB related matters, ie, policies and procedures relating to resale and transfer, subletting and various other policies; (6) application and allocation of hawker stalls; (7) matters pertaining to maintenance and repairs to the inside of both sold and rental premises.”
“Witness the Japanese then and now the Koreans on the promotion of their brands. They were not interested in producing products for the Western companies but instead they tried to build up a host of Japanese and Korean brands. The success is being seen today. I would therefore like to urge the Minister to consider a double tax deduction scheme for expenses incurred in the overseas promotion of Singapore's own brands and names. Sir, I support the motion.”
“Hence, allowing deductions at the time of the loss would not be attractive as that would be the time when investors have little income to take advantage of the deductions. Furthermore, Sir, I believe the incentive, as presently structured, may have a negative impact because tax deduction is only allowed when losses are realized. An investor may, in order to take advantage of the tax deduction, try to dispose of the investment at the first sign of problems and not try to work through it. I would therefore like to urge the Minister to be bold and allow deduction at the time of investment. If this is too much, then perhaps he can consider a period of, say, three years for the write-off. After all, Sir, these investments need to be approved and therefore the final say is really in the hands of the Government. Export promotion. I would also like to commend the Minister for encouraging export of our services. However, Sir, services is not just computer software, information technology, medical, accounting, consulting and the like. Within manufacturing itself, there are many activities considered as services. Permit me to illustrate. In the garment trade, for example, many of our companies are contract manufacturers, ie, they produce well-known brands on behalf of the brand owners, brands such as Lee, Wrangler, Levis, Esprit, etc. Everybody knows that the greatest profit margin is in the ownership of these brands and not in the manufacturing of the product itself. Yet, Sir, to establish a brand takes many years of hard promotional work and much cost. Surely, it will be worthwhile to encourage the promotion of local brands overseas as in the long run this will fit into the fabric of our economic structure. We do not have to go too far to look at examples.”
“Either the employee does not want to work overtime at the prescribed rate because it is too low or the employer cannot afford to pay prescribed rates because it is too high. So why the need for this inflexibility? Why not let the market decide? Let it be between the company and the unions to decide what sort of overtime rates that should be paid. I would thus like to urge the Minister to consider giving more flexibility to willing (and, Sir, here I stress the word "willing") employers and unions to negotiate on the overtime rates they deem best for their companies. It will encourage the greater usage and utilization of overtime and thus effectively increasing the labour pool. Incentives for overseas investment. I welcome the Minister to include approved overseas investment as part of the venture capital incentive scheme. It will certainly help our investors to venture more into areas overseas beneficial to Singapore in the long run. However, I would like to urge for some modification to the scheme itself. The scheme is a good one but not good enough. It does not go far enough to encourage investment. Allowing tax deduction for losses only at the point of sale of the approved investment or presumably liquidation is simply not attractive enough. A company normally makes an investment during good times. Hence, a deduction at the point of investment will be a better incentive. After all, one needs profits for the tax deduction to be effective and good times are usually associated with profits. "It never rains but pours" is a maxim common in business. It is because businesses are generally more affected by macro factors such as recession and poor business environment.”
“To encourage housewives and those prepared to work part-time, the Government should consider increasing their take-home pay. For them, the current take-home pay after deductions, especially for CPF, is simply not enough. For these people, they do not need that much money in their CPF because chances are, especially for housewives, they have spouses working full-time. Why do not the Government encourage them by reducing their CPF contributions, say, 10% instead of the current 25% of their wages? Sir, on overtime rates, under the current Employment Act, the overtime rates are fixed by law - 1(r) times the normal rate for overtime work on normal working days and two times the normal rate for overtime work on rest days. These laws were fixed at a time when perhaps there was unemployment rather than over-employment. There was over-supply of labour rather than shortage of labour. They were also fixed at a time to prevent exploitation of workers by the employers. However, Sir, times have changed. Today's industrial relations situation in Singapore is such that exploitation of workers in Singapore in this manner is practically nil. Trade unions will have little difficulty coping with such types of exploitation by employers. Furthermore, the employment situation has changed drastically, from unemployment to shortage of labour. Any employer who tries to exploit his workers by underpaying them will very soon find himself short of workers. But such a system legislated for a different period becomes a source of inflexibility in today's economy. There are companies, especially those in the retail trade, where the employers and employees are willing to accept overtime rates different from those prescribed by legislation but are prevented from doing so because of the law.”
“Despite the best wishes of the Government policy makers and officials alike, the increased automation that is needed to reduce dependency on foreign workers will take time, especially when those affected are mainly the locally owned small and medium-sized enterprises. Sir, their problem is not so much the level of the levy per se but the fact that they are simply unable to obtain approval for foreign workers. Often they simply cannot get enough Singaporeans for various jobs and are prepared even to pay a higher levy to obtain foreign workers, ie, if they can obtain approval for them. I believe the present system for the foreign workers is much too rigid. As the Minister has said in his address, we must be flexible. Sir, I would like to follow up on the two-tier system proposed by the Member for Chong Boon. I would like the Minister to consider perhaps a tender system for foreign workers in the non-priority sectors. It will be similar to a two-tier system but instead of an arbitrary higher levy, the amount of levy should be left to market forces. The principle of the marginal cost of an additional worker would determine whether it is worthwhile for each and every company to bring in a foreign worker or to employ a Singapore worker at higher costs or even to move more rapidly to automation. The foreign workers issue actually highlights the greater demand for labour. We should not simply focus on foreign workers in this respect but also perhaps on other ways of encouraging greater utilization of Singaporeans and our present workforce. In this respect, Sir, may I suggest two ways in which the Government can perhaps help to attain this objective. The first one is the lower CPF rates.”
“Sir, only when we are shown such consolidated accounts, can we then really see whether the Government needs more revenue or is, in fact, having too much revenue. Sir, I now come to the more specific items of the budget. The SDF levy. Sir, I agree with the Minister's comments on the need to give more emphasis to training of our workers. However, Sir, I would like to maintain that training is as much a responsibility of the Government as it is of employers. Already, as the Member for Whampoa has said earlier this morning, statutory cost of doing business is high in Singapore, certainly much higher than in Hong Kong. As such, I would like to urge the Minister to consider a proposal that was actually presented in the newspaper, that of, transferring the payroll tax from the consolidated revenue account to the SDF. Both the payroll tax and the SDF levy are similar taxes on employment. It is strange that the Government with its constant budgetary surpluses and emphasis on improving the quality of our human resources should continue to tax employment of the nation's only resource. Sir, the payroll tax should be abolished or, if not, the proceeds should be transferred to the SDF. Alternatively, to show that it shares the burden of training our workers, the Government can also consider the following: (1) To fund the SDF on a dollar-for-dollar basis, ie, to contribute an amount equal to the levy collected from companies. (2) Perhaps even to direct the foreign workers' levy to the SDF. Foreign Worker's Levy Sir, as the economy improves, demand for foreign workers in the non-priority sectors will increase. While I agree that we should not in the long run be dependent on foreign workers, in the short run I am afraid that we still need them.”
“Or balanced by padding intra-public sector transfers as expenditure? Sir, let me use a simple hypothetical example to illustrate. Assume that a budget calls for the spending of $20 billion. Hence to balance a budget the Finance Minister would have to raise $20 billion. Sir, that is fine. But then what if in the expenditure side of the budget there are transfers treated as expenditure. Surely, then, This is no longer the situation of a balanced budget but more of a surplus budget. Sir, if a real example is needed, let us look at the two items of the so-called expenditure which I mentioned earlier. The actual amounts of the items are not shown. But if one were to look at the comparison of the revised fiscal year 1987 with actual fiscal year 1986 expenditure in page 39, Annex I of the Budget report, one can see that both items have increased by a total of $3.6 billion. If only the increases of these two items are taken out of expenditure and properly classified as "intra-public sector transfers", the fiscal year 1987 revised revenue expenditure of the Government would be a surplus of $948 million and not a deficit of $2.7 billion as presented. Surely, Sir, this is an entirely different picture altogether. That is why over the last two years I have called for a better accounting system to reflect more accurately and realistically the revenue and expenditure of the public sector. Sir, I said "public sector" and not Government Ministries because over the years Government Ministries have spinned off certain functions which are of a public administration nature to statutory bodies. The accounts of these bodies such as HDB, JTC, URA, MAS and the like, need to be consolidated to show a more comprehensive picture of the revenue and expenditure of the public sector.”
“The modified system promised by the Minister, I believe, will bring better presentation in form in the years to come. For that, I thank the Minister in making life a bit easier for us. The substance, Sir, I am afraid leaves room for improvement. This lack of substance is not only misleading but actually dangerous; for upon this the Government sets its economic policies and thus affects everybody in the country. In fact, Sir, I would even like to add that if the Government is a company it would have been brought to court its misleading presentation of accounts. Let me illustrate what I meant by "misleading". Sir, in the budget the fiscal year 1987 expenditure included the one of debt servicing payments and the purchase by the Government of URA and JTC land banks. But, Sir, are these actually expenditures, or are they not simply intra-public sector transfers? The one of debt servicing payment is to MAS, to adjust the huge advance deposits CPF has with the MAS. The purchase of land is to pay for the land belonging to URA and JTC; land which these two organizations acquired from the public at 1973 prices, a power given to them in the first place by the Government itself. To say that these are expenditures now and group them together with salaries and the like is, Sir, really stretching the imagination. Sir, when the Minister says that a long term budget policy objective is an overall balanced budget, I am sure that all Singapore supports this policy. I am sure that Singaporeans will be willing to pay more taxes, whether directly or indirectly, to ensure a balanced budget if the Government needs more funds to spend for the public good and if it wants a balanced budget. But, then, Sir, what do we mean by "balanced"? Balanced because of actual expenditure?”
“Sir, such a statement should as far as possible reduce uncertainties and at the same time provide predictability on the Government's plans and actions in the coming year. May I add that at this time when businesses are faced with a greater amount of uncertainty than before, this is especially needed. Hence, not to provide predictability and reduce uncertainty is bad enough. But, Sir, for the budget to contain sources of uncertainty certainly takes the cake. So what are these sources of uncertainty? To my mind, the three major items are the CPF rates, the SDF levy and the property taxes which the Minister has said will be reviewed during the course of the year. Sir, does he not know that his comments create uncertainties in respect of statutory cost of doing business in Singapore? Between the space of a year, why is it that important that these changes should be made in between budgets? Why does not the Minister say that in view of the longer term uncertainty facing us, any proposed change will only be made at the next budget? Will it make such a big difference, Sir, to Government coffers or to long term planning of the economy if changes to these rates and taxes were to be made at the next budget? Or does really a space of six to nine months really make all the difference? If not, why not give a greater amount of certainty to the business community? Why not state clearly that changes will only be made at the next budget? I strongly urge the Minister to do so. Sir, I would now like to come to one of my favourite topics on the budget which is the budget presentation, both in form and substance. The form, Sir, I must admit has improved substantially through the years. It is now easier to understand what each Ministry wants to do and the funds needed for them.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a remarkable budget in three ways. First, it is remarkable because it is simply a continuation of the economic journey set by the Economic Committee in 1985. The fact that there is little need to change course shows that our economic growth set in 1985 and reinforced in 1986 and 1987 has been the correct one. Sir, may I request and hope that all future budgets be like this - uneventful, unexciting and, in fact, taken as a matter of fact; because such reaction means that the economic and financial planning at our national level is far-sighted and has anticipated future problems and difficulties and has solved them before they become recognized as such. Sir, secondly, it is remarkable for its promise of a new system, for its promise to set targets for Government expenditure, to better monitor and to better account for these expenditures and at the same time to use the performance measurement system to ensure the effectiveness and the efficiency of major Government programmes. Knowing the difficulties of such a system even in small companies, I know that the will and effort needed to move an immense organization such as the civil service is a huge one, and I would like to congratulate the Minister on his courage to promise such a programme even before it starts. Thirdly, Sir, it is remarkable because of the promises of higher taxes and rates in the coming year. Here I would like to say that the budget, besides being a management tool of Government's financial affairs, is also a statement of intent of the Government in respect to its economic management of the country. That is the reason why all of us in the nation look forward to the budget every year.”
“Sir, the current section 33(1)(a) in the Act, as everybody knows, is inherently unfair as it freezes land value for the purpose of compensation at the value on 30th November 1973. As the Prime Minister had once said, the Government is playing Robin Hood. So therefore in the same vein I would like to ask the Minister whether the increase in compensation to land value on lst January 1986 would mean increases in the prices of HDB flats?”
“Sir, in concluding whether or not Singapore should have legal rights of ensuring minority representation in Parliament it may be worthwhile for the House to note the conclusions of the report that I have earlier quoted. In the study, the professor noted the presence of institutional arrangements to regulate and clamp down inter-community conflict in many countries with a mixed population. The most important conclusions she reached are: 1) In countries where such institutional arrangements have been introduced, the institutional arrangements have progressively been accompanied by accommodating attitudes between different communities; and 2) The fewer the presence of such institutional arrangements the more intense is the conflict between communities, whereas the more such arrangements are present, the more accommodating are the attitudes of the different communities. On this note, I would like to support the Bill. 4.13 pm.”
“Here you also have a system where they face problems like Singapore and by all accounts so far, their system has been working fine for them. In fact, what we are doing perhaps is that we have adopted two features of that system, ie, the Group Representation Constituency as well as the Non-Constituency MPs. Sir, I know I have taken a bit of time going into this example of the Mauritian Assembly but I believe that the Bill before us is an important one and will affect all of us. Like the member of Changkat, I heard many have asked for a referendum to be held on this issue. However, I am not too sure whether she favours or does not favour a referendum, although I do agree with her that the issue is complex and very emotive. Perhaps here, my view is that a referendum may not be the best way. In this respect, Sir, I commend the First Deputy Prime Minister on his proposal to put the Bill before a Select Committee. However, I would like to propose another dimension to the Select Committee. Just to receive comments, views and ideas from the general public may not be adequate. Sir, constitutional law is not an easy subject to grasp. Unfortunately, too, the emotive content of this Bill is very high. As such, I would like to propose that a special parliamentary committee be formed to examine other alternatives and to determine from a rational, logical view- point that the proposed Team MP system is the most appropriate for Singapore. This committee could even be a sub-committee of the Select Committee and, if necessary, this committee can visit those countries with multi-racial legislation to see at first hand the workings of such legislation.”
“Unlike the Member for Kebun Baru I would not like to dismiss it out of hand because there are obviously some merits in this particular system. We must remember there are many variations under this system of proportionate representation. In this respect here, I would like to touch on the example of Mauritius. But before I do, I would also like to ask the First Deputy Prime Minister to consider the possibility of a bicameral system where we can have an Upper House based on a multi-racial voting basis. Coming back to Mauritius. Mauritius has a similar problem, such as ours, of ensuring multi-racial representation. There are basically three main communities. Their Constitution divides the people of Mauritius into the Hindu community, the Muslim community, the Sino-Mauritian community and the general category called "Others". In their system, the voters return three successful candidates from each constituency. Therefore, if we look at their system which is already being practised, our GRC with the Team MP proposal is not unique to us. They have 21 constituencies of which one particular constituency only returns two. Why? I do not know. Perhaps it is because the population there is lesser. But other than these 62 elected representatives from the constituencies, they also have eight other members of the Assembly. There are eight seats allocated to the most unsuccessful candidates in a general election. Again, this is very similar to our Non-Constituency MPs. However, their allocation is based on a formula to ensure that the additional seats are given in such a way that they ensure a fair and adequate representation of each community in the Mauritian Assembly.”
“Thank you, Sir. Maybe what we fear can happen may not happen. But then what is so wrong as to enshrine in our law to ensure that it shall never happen? The principle of ensuring multi-racial representation for the Malay and the minority communities is, I believe, accepted by the majority of Singaporeans. I fully support this principle just as I support the move by the Government to enshrine this principle in our Constitution. However, Sir, I would like to ask the Hon. First Deputy Prime Minister that in selecting the Team MP and the GRC concept as the most appropriate and best system for Singapore, has he looked at other systems being practised by other countries with similar problems? My point is whether the Government has looked at all alternatives before selecting on the present one. Sir, I know that Members before me have already given some examples, such as communal system that has been given by the Member for Kebun Baru and the Member of Fengshan and these systems are being practised in some Fengshan and these system are being practised in some respects, in some modifications, by countries like Cyprus, Fiji, New Zealand or even India until 1985 where there were some seats reserved for the Untouchables. We have also touched on Fiji. They have a system where they have more than one electoral roll and where communal seats can be elected by the national voting population. However, I would like to touch more on the concept of proportionate representation. There have been many variations being used in this system, such as the list system, the single transferable vote system or even the alternate vote system, and there are many methods of calculating the voting weightage, quota, etc.”
“Sometimes sound. But, Sir, of all persons, he should be the first to realize and to know that voting in a general election is just as emotional. The fear is not so much the normal emotional reaction to a ruling party who has given Singapore its prosperity and progress for the past 30 years. Sir, the fear is that there may be a more basic emotional response to fundamental instincts, such as race, religion and culture.”
“Can we ever have the same trust and belief in our hearts that as Singaporeans we will always look after one another as true Singaporeans if that happens? Because then, we will ask: are we really Singaporeans or are we not Chinese, Malay, Indian first, and then Singaporeans second? Sir, we must remember that if such an event happens nothing in the world can erase it. Even if the winning party refuses to be the government and calls for a fresh election with fresh rules to prevent such a thing from happening, it will be too late. We will all know what has happened. Sir, my point is, and I suppose this is the point in the mind of the Member for Potong Pasir, what is the chance of this happening? One in a million? One in ten million? Or even one in a billion? Even if it is one in a trillion, can we afford to take the risk of this unimaginable event happening? Some of the arguments put out by the Member for Potong Pasir may be considered rational, even sometimes sound, but of all persons, Sir ---”
“But then, Sir, he is talking about communal politics, not multi-racial politics. The First Deputy Prime Minister has taken great pains to explain the difference between communal politics and multi-racial politics. And even after such explanation, I am afraid the hon. Member has found it difficult to understand. So I would like to add my simple explanation, which is, communal politics is politics based on the appeal to one race and on that appeal a government can be formed, to the detriment of the other races in the community. Multi-racial politics must appeal to as many races as possible because without that appeal, Sir, no government can be formed. Surely, any intelligent Singaporean can see that the Team MP concept is therefore multi-racial and not communal. But most important, the Member for Potong Pasir has missed the crucial point of the issue before us. This issue is not that the candidates from the minority communities can be elected on their own steam and thus an arrangement such as the Bill before the House is not necessary. Sir, the issue is, what happens to Singapore if they are not elected. What if one day, due to reasons beyond our control, say, internally, such as a party appealing to the chauvinism of the majority or, even externally, such as events or actions in neighbouring countries causing our people to react in an emotionally realistic mannar. Sir, what if one day all returned candidates in a general election are Chinese? Then what happens? How will our neighbours react? What will be the geopolitical effect in our region? But more importantly, within our country, how would each and every one of us react? How will we face our Malay neighbours or our Indian friends?”
“Sir, the hon. Member for Potong Pasir is not too happy about us using Sri Lanka or Fiji as examples. Actually there are examples in the Western developed countries like Holland and Belgium where there are also institutionalized power-sharing arrangements amongst the different communities there. Sir, many countries in the world with pluralistic community of any significance have, in fact, adopted many types of power-sharing arrangements in order to ensure communal harmony. Perhaps only Switzerland does not have any formal power-sharing arrangements. Sir, in this respect, why Switzerland? I would like to read a quotation from a report done by Prof. Claire Palley of Oxford University. 'Only in Switzerland has power-sharing developed organically over a century. The Constitution provides for a 7-man federal council holding office for a fixed term of four years. By convention, proportionate representation is used by the federal assembly to elect council members. The effect is that there are usually four or five German speakers, one or two French speakers and one Italian speaker. Power-sharing with voluntary acceptance of the principle of proportionality and a stable fixed time coalition together with an attitude of compromise prevalent since 1874 has resulted in relatively good inter-communal relationships.' Sir, perhaps 100 years from today we do not need the Team MP proposal. But with our short history, Sir, I am afraid that what we fear most, and what we do not want most to come about, may come about if we do not take steps to prevent it. Sir, the Member for Potong Pasir again touched on Cyprus and showed in his example how communal politics has split the country. Sir, I must add here that he is correct in that in Cyprus, communal politics has indeed split the country.”