Lim Boon Heng
Singapore
“On the first question on foreign domestic worker levy relief for single women who are looking after their aged parents, I think that question should be addressed to the Minister for Manpower and the Ministry of Finance.”
“I shall address the second point first. When it is clearly an item for a Ministry, a Member should address that question to that Ministry because that Ministry is also responsible for that even if it is related to ageing.”
“For those who wonder what the Fourth Age is, it is basically the last couple of years of your life when you are afflicted by, perhaps, chronic illnesses and therefore need to be cared for.”
“The Wellness Programme applies to all estates. In the pilot project, we deliberately chose 12 pilot sites to reflect different mixes. For example, we chose Ulu Pandan, which has a lot of private estates.”
“Maybe MCYS and the PMO could really look into these RC centres to see whether they could incorporate some of the needs of the elderly in these centres as well, like an extra area for karaoke or even mahjong. This area should be quiet and enclosed because the elderly sing loudly as they cannot hear very well.”
“The process has already started. We are already debating this issue in Parliament. The unions have taken up the issue with the management. I know and I am aware of that. So, let the process take its course.”
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“So it has to be studied in greater depth by all of us and by the Ministry of Communications and Information, in particular. One of the other existing policy measures which the Committee considered was PARF. It is a measure introduced to make it attractive for car owners to remove old cars from the roads, so that there will be fewer breakdowns that would add to traffic congestion. In the past year, there was a view put forward that the PARF has turned the car into an investment. The Committee sought views. It became clear in the work of the Committee that the cause of rising second-hand car prices was not PARF itself, but the sharp appreciation of the Yen and the Deutschemark. To abolish PARF on this count would be wrong. In fact, abolishing the PARF scheme would lead to more old cars on the roads, adding to the car population, and what is more, with more old cars there will be higher incidence of breakdowns and ensuing traffic jams. Between 1976 and 1988, about 148,000 new cars were bought using the PARF scheme, an average of 11,340 a year. On average over this period, we are disposing of 11,340 old cars every year. So it is a useful scheme. The Committee therefore concluded that PARF should be retained. It added a refinement, and that is, to introduce a sliding scale to create an incentive for car owners to refurbish and export older cars. The quality of our cars on our roads would therefore be higher with less risks of breakdowns. Whether there is in fact a large market for refurbished cars or not remains to be seen. But we noted, however, that the export of cars, either refurbished or not, already exists.”
“Then, we also have to bear in mind that for every measure introduced, there will be a number of measures thought up to beat the system. In considering ownership measures, the Committee noted that the present system of pricing is not wholly effective. The Committee agrees that the quota system is more effective in controlling the rate of increase of the car population because it can fix the rate of increase. It considered this in general, and had not gone into the details of the implementation at great length. For example, will there be quotas for different engine sizes? This may not be necessary. The variation in car prices between the upper end high capacity engine cars and the 800 cc cars is very large. It is far larger than in the United States. Although there is a smaller variation in prices in the United States between the upper and lower end engine capacity cars, there is still a market for each type of car. Therefore, a quota system, when it finds its balance, is likely to result in a narrowing of the range of car prices. The consumer will still exercise his choice based upon his affordability. The other factor not fully discussed is how commercial vehicles and Q-plate cars should be treated. In general, all vehicles should come under the same net, because all vehicles used on the roads contribute to congestion. This would have consequences on the cost of doing business. So some preferential treatment ought to be given if we are not to push or distort the cost of doing business unduly. But which is the best way? This has to be debated. One way is for the Government to grant a tax discount. But even this may allow circumvention by people who want to own a car and use a commercial or Q-plate car as an indirect route of owning one.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion. I am privileged to have had the opportunity to serve on the Committee to review and consider some of our land transportation policies. Let me say that I have benefited in the process. I now appreciate more fully how difficult the job of Government is, with respect to land transportation policy. It is easy to put forward suggestions. It is quite different when one has to think through the likely consequences of one policy against the consequences of another policy. I believe the discussions that we have had, and are now having, will also help the public to appreciate the difficult job the Minister for Communications and Information has. It has been suggested that people are rational and will accept rational policies. To this, I have a qualification. People are rational and will make rational choices for themselves. But what is rational to the individual is not necessarily rational for the country. To the individual, to own a car is a rational choice. Not only does it improve his image, but it is also the most efficient means of transportation for him. Needless to say, if everyone exercises his option to buy and use a car, there will be increased congestion. This is not rational from the national viewpoint. But can we reasonably expect each individual to ponder the national interests before making this choice? Thus, when there is a conflict between individual aspirations and national interests, the Government has the unpleasant task of regulating and putting in place disincentives. We are therefore left with the problem of how to make disincentives more acceptable to the people, and yet effective. We cannot hope to make disincentives popular.”
“We should also consider those who are able to take a wider view because they have been serving in the community and their track record, their dedication to the people, their dedication to the country, have already been tested. As there are many facets of this Bill that merit more thorough scrutiny, I would support sending it to a Select Committee. And after thorough public discussion, let us make whatever changes we think is needed. Our objective must be to strengthen our parliamentary system for the good of the people.”
“"Delay". I accept his clarification - to delay the decision-making process in this House. I would accept them in this House. Let them have their say together with Government, Government Backbenchers, Opposition together. And after all the views are duly considered, then we take a vote. Whether the Parliamentary Councillors or Nominated MPs have the right to vote, I think that is something we should consider. Then there is also the question on how these MPs are to be nominated and selected. Using a Select Committee of Parliament is one way. But are there no other ways? And how do we prevent, as the Member for Ayer Rajah pointed out, a communalist from entering Parliament? Perhaps the suggestion made by the Member for Thomson on having the whole House vote on the list of nominees would be a check. I feel that the collective wisdom of the House, of the duly elected Members, those who have gone through the elections, would act as a check against the emergence of a communalist in this House. But that is only one possibility. Are there no other possibilities? It is possible that members of the public may have other ideas on how this can be done. I think we should encourage this public discussion. As the Member for Ayer Rajah said, presently there are many channels of feedback. There are also channels through which members of the public can put forward proposals to the Government. We should not ignore those who have been practising participatory democracy using existing legitimate channels and should not merely be concerned with having academics, lawyers, businessmen, or religious leaders to be present in Parliament to voice sectional interests.”
“There is therefore merit in the proposal. However, how should one distinguish between MPs, NCMPs, and Nominated MPs? Should they have the right to vote? Giving them the right to vote would mean that they have real influence in Parliament. They do make a difference even if they are in the minority. The problem is they have real influence without having gone to the people for a mandate. But if we regard them as a stabilising force and their number is limited, perhaps we can accept it. I would be happier, however, if we can have more discussion on this before we come to a conclusion. And depending on our final conclusion, we may even rename Nominated MPs and call them Parliamentary Councillors. I disagree with the Member for Ayer Rajah on having a Parliamentary Council to override or delay the decision-making process in this Parliament. Dr Tan Cheng Bock: A point of clarification. I did not say "override".”
“Parliamentary debate then has the tendency to become more theatre than discussions on the merits of a policy measure. And the word "theatre" is not my own, but one which I have heard in the British House of Commons. An Opposition would exploit the unpopularity of a policy, even if it privately recognises the merit of that policy and knows that it is good for the country. It has happened and it will happen again. I have had opportunities to exchange views with Parliamentarians from other countries and they acknowledge that indeed this is the case. Parlia- mentary debate tends to serve the goal of the political parties for winning power, rather than for serious discussion for the long-term good of the people when we have such a system. I feel the greatest merit of the Nominated MPs proposal, therefore, is in the non-partisan stance that we can expect such MPs to take. Without doubt, non-partisan voices in Parliament would give the people a reference point to judge the merit or demerit of the arguments put forward by contending political parties in Parliament. They can then form a more objective view on the correctness and soundness of Government policy. When they, being independent and non-partisan, support an unpopular policy, then the people will know that the Government is in fact right, even if the policy is unpopular. This will help them to accept correct policies for the country's good. If the Nominated MPs have serious objections to Government policy, then the Government would have to rethink and re-examine its position even if, as we are proposing, the numbers are small. And this, I feel, the Government must consider seriously. If Nominated MPs can play this role, then they help to provide a stabiliser in our democratic system.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, quite clearly this Bill has not been easy for some of us to accept. One of the views of the democratic process is that anyone who wishes to speak in Parliament should have the mandate of the people. And if one does not have the people's mandate, then on what authority does he seek to influence and shape public policy? I have had to address this question when I considered the Bill. As the First Deputy Prime Minister said, there are basically two forms of election of the people's representatives - the first-past-the-post system and the proportional representation system. And some Parliaments adopt a hybrid of the two, or may have two Houses. The first-past-the-post system has often been criticised because it would amount to a tyranny of the majority. So it is not a perfect system. We have also seen in some countries that when there is multi-party support, it can also be a tyranny of the minority. But its advantage is the ability to allow effective government. The proportional representation system, whilst giving different sections of the people representative weight in Parliament, leads quite often to hung Parliaments and, therefore, ineffective governments more often than the first-past-the-post system. And in our context, it will lead to ethnic politics and polarisation among the people. So how do we evolve our system to cater for the greater desire of the people for participation in national politics? Different countries have evolved different variations of the two models. So it is quite legitimate for us to evolve our own variations and to consider those models that would suit our purpose. The nature of party politics inevitably means an adversarial relationship. Any opposition worth its salt aims one day to win a majority to form the government.”
“On careful examination of the situation we can see the undeniable fact that the main cause for the large number of illegal immigrant workers coming to Singapore is that many Singapore employers want to employ cheap labour and avoid having to pay levy. Therefore, there are also third parties who are willing to arrange for such illegal workers to sneak into Singapore. From our conscience, we know that some illegal workers are innocent victims who have been cheated by traffickers and agents. Many of them have paid s our attention to those who traffic in illegal workers and those who employ such workers by inflicting severe punishments on them. Therefore I support the amendments introduced by the Minister for these purposes. As far as I know, up to now no illegal worker has yet been punished by caning under the new law. So I hope both the agents and the employers will abide by our laws and regulations. As long as they do not infringe our laws or commit the said offences they shall have no fear of being punished by caning.”
“In my own town council, I heard that one of the contractors who was not able to get enough workers went round house to house and offered jobs to housewives. At what pay? $150 per month. Now, who is going to work for a monthly wage of $150? Who is prepared to work for $150 per month? If we want to discuss the issue of the tight labour market, I think it can do with more time, but since the subject today is on the question of tackling the problem of illegal workers, I think we should tackle the problem at its root. I support this measure, no matter how unpleasant it is, and I do not envy the Minister for having to move this Bill. I support the Bill. Mr Goh Chee Wee (Boon Lay)( In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Amendment Bill. I support the Government in stipulating stricter regulations providing for more severe punishment in dealing with employers of illegal workers and traffickers of illegal immigrants. Recently, when Government passed the provision of severe of punishment, including mandatory caning to deal with illegal immigrant workers, this aroused a lot of argument and criticism. But it has proved to be very effective as it resulted in many illegal workers reporting themselves to the authorities, so that we were able to send them back in a short time. Both inside and outside the House, there have been criticisms of the Bills. There have also been unpleasant arguments and misunderstandings with other countries. Fortunately, in dealing with this matter our Government has been very cautious and flexible in its approach. Other organizations, particularly the NTUC, also played a very important role in dealing with this matter so that our relationship with foreign countries, particularly Thailand, had not deteriorated.”
“These illegal workers have been at the mercy of both agents and employers. And so long as their status is illegal, they would not dare to complain or to seek redress. And so long as our immigration laws remain ineffective in ending the practice of illegal employment, there will be little incentive for employers to find better methods of work. I have cited primarily the construction industry because this is where the bulk of illegal foreign workers have been found. How do we explain the fact that although the cost of labour and materials is higher in developed countries, their construction costs, excluding land cost, are lower than Singapore's? Does this not mean that there is a lot of scope for improvement in our own work methods that we should not merely be looking to cheap foreign labour to service our construction industry? So long as there is a ready supply of cheap foreign labour, the wages in the construction industry will remain low, and no local Singapore worker will be able to afford to work in the industry. So my question to employers and to those who have spoken out in the interest of employers is: Is cheap labour the only way of making money? Is making money only possible if one breaks the law? I think we have to answer that fundamental question. If the Ministry of Labour is not so willing to be liberal in granting work permits, I think it is up to the employers as a group to make their representations. And if they can justify their case, I am sure the Ministry of Labour can be convinced. Reference was also made to the shortage of labour in relation to town councils. What I know is that some of the contractors do have problems getting workers. But let me cite to you what kind of wages such employers are willing to pay.”
“The experiences of the last few months, especially through the involvement of the National Trades Union Congress in solving the problem, have brought to light some unscrupulous practices to show that those who have sought to profit from employment of illegal foreign workers deserve severe punishment, instead of the workers themselves. For example, a Thai worker wishing to get work in Singapore has to pay an agent fees of between $1,500 to $4,000. This is no small sum, even for Singaporeans whose average pay is higher than the Thai workers. And yet, how much is a Thai worker paid at our construction site? On average, $16 per day. How long would such a worker have to overstay and work before he is able to recover the amount that he has paid to the agents? Such agents, whether they be Thais or Singaporeans, or both working together, are exploiters of human misery or human suffering. They, more than the workers, deserve caning. It was also found that some employers of foreign workers, whether they were legally employed or illegally employed, were deducting $1 per day from the workers' wages for some kind of vague insurance or provident fund or for some vague tax purposes. Some employers deduct wages if a worker needs medical treatment. If he has to go and see a doctor for half a day, his pay is deducted. If a worker who has worked for as long as two years in Singapore wishes to return home to visit his family has to pay his employer $200 before departure. So are we not ashamed of such employers? Are these practices not reprehensible? Are these practices not demeaning of the character and dignity of workers, whether they be local or foreign? So what have these foreign workers found? A pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Sadly, no.”
“Sir, I do not like caning. Nor do I like jails. Yet it is necessary for society, for the community, to punish offenders. The debate today, as the GPC Chairman for Home Affairs has said, focuses on what punishment is appropriate for the offence committed. So I respect the views of Members who may be speaking or who have spoken against caning out of a personal sense of values. But the question before us is how to find an effective means of bringing order to the problem of illegal employment. This House earlier this year passed legislation to impose compulsory caning on foreigners found to have overstayed and worked illegally. And developments since then have proven the measure to be most effective. The previous attempts at solving the problem through imposition of longer jail sentences or fines had little effect. That was why the Government was forced into the unpleasant step of imposing compulsory caning for illegal workers and, as we all know, this has almost completely solved the problem. But there are at least two parties in employment, the employer and the employee. With foreign workers, unfortunately, there is also a third party, the recruitment agent. Many people, both foreign and local, have said in the past few months that the law did not treat the parties equally. The worker, who may be uninformed, misinformed or misled, faces the harshest of punishments, whilst the employer and the agent, who should be better informed, are let off so lightly and profit in the process. Furthermore, it can be said if there are no employers willing to employ illegal workers, there would be no problem of illegal employees. So it should be logical to go to the root of the problem and tackle the small number of employers and agents, rather than to punish the thousands of workers.”
“Will it cover all the permanent residents, because we know that there are different types of permanent residents, and some of them do not carry the blue Singapore identity card. How many CPF members will benefit from this scheme as of this moment? I would also like to ask the Minister why does the scheme continue to cover the CPF member for three years after he has stopped contributing to this scheme or to the CPF because this is a departure from the normal insurance practice. Sir, I support the Bill.”
“Sir, I rise to support the Bill. This scheme is wholly laudable and deserves the full support of Members of this House. We are aware that many workers are still not insured and if a CPF member should unfortunately be permanently incapacitated or pass away, then his dependants may suffer financial hardship. This is particularly so for the lower income workers because this is the group of workers who are most likely not to have taken up insurance cover for themselves and for their families. So we should thank the Minister for moving this Bill. There are a few technical questions I would like to ask the Minister. First of all, why is the cut-off at age 55 years? Perhaps the Minister wishes to reinforce the point that the withdrawal age of CPF remains at 55 and therefore it is a convenient point to draw the cut-off age. However, we are encouraging the raising of the retirement age to 60 and beyond if it is possible. So there is a case for the cut-off age to be raised at least to 60 years. We should also take into account the fact that many Singaporeans marry late and have their children late. So when they reach the age of 55 years their children may still be in secondary school or may be in a tertiary institution. So if they should be permanently incapacitated or should pass away, then the dependants are doubly hard hit. So would the Minister consider raising the age of this scheme to 60 years, if not now, perhaps after review at a future date? I would also like to ask the Minister whether the CPF members will be notified when they are covered by this DPIS. I think it is important for the beneficiaries to know that there is this cover so that they can claim from this scheme if they are aware that they are entitled to claim.”
“I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.”
“But I would urge the Minister to take action against those employers who have knowingly employed illegal workers and to press the courts for deterrent sentences, bearing in mind that at $220 per month, not the $250 coming in July, the levy avoided is $2,640 per worker per year. So the penalty to be given out by the courts should be proportional to these kinds of figures in order to have any deterrent effect. And action should also be taken against the agents who have cheated the Thai workers by giving them wrong information and forged work permits. Such agents, I think, are no better than slave traders and should be severely punished. I do not know under what ambit of the law we could take them to court by, but I believe that such culprits should be severely punished. I would urge the Minister since there appears to be some doubts in the minds of employers as to how many foreign workers they can employ, under what kinds of work permits these are available, if he could again give to the House and through the reports in the media an explanation to the employers on how they can legally employ foreign workers to meet the current shortage of labour.”
“If we had only needed to reduce it by 10 percentage points, then really this restoration of the 4% that we are talking about means that as of 1st July when the employer's contribution to CPF is raised by 4 percentage points, employers would still be paying 9% less than they were paying before the reduction, which means it is very close to what the majority of employers would have been happy with in 1986. So I would like to put that in perspective in the light of the decision which Government has to take in one or two months' time and I hope that what the Minister for Trade and Industry has said and what the Minister for Labour prefers would, in fact, come true and that the faith of the workers in the Government and on the Ministers would be upheld. I would now like to touch on the question of illegal workers which has already been referred to. I was also surprised at the large number of illegal workers and the figures that we have from the newspaper reports is 8,000 or possibly more than 10,000 and these are only Thai nationals for which certain arrangements have been made. Now we know that the presence in Singapore of so many illegal workers is, in fact, the root cause for the depressed wages that we have seen at the lower end. So it is little wonder that employers have not found the need or have been very reluctant to raise the bottom end wages until very recently. I share the Minister's concern that in fact the real culprits in this issue of illegal workers is the employers. He has not stated very firmly what kind of action the Government proposes to take against the employers.”
“Yes. Mr Chairman, Sir, thank you for allowing me to continue. But before continuing, I would like to say that I do not envy the Minister for Labour for the kind of requests that he has got to entertain but he should be forewarned now that the pressure that is going to be exerted on him will be of a different kind, the hard crusading kind as well as the subtle nudges. I would ask him to beware of both. Since the Member for Ayer Rajah has asked for the CPF Education Scheme to be tried out for one or two years and review it, I would like to add that we should not review it merely to come back to this House and ask for more and to liberalize it further. But if in one or two years' time the statistics show that very few people in fact are making use of this scheme, then we should have the courage to close it down. Sir, on the other question of employer's contribution to CPF, I think whilst the Minister is cautious, I understand from his reply that in fact he supports the restoration of 4 percentage points in the employer's contribution. Let me just put this in perspective. At the end of 1985 and the beginning of 1986 when we were discussing whether or not to reduce the employer's contribution to CPF, the debate was over the quantum. How much should the employer's contribution to CPF be reduced by? I believe that at that time many employers would have been quite happy if the reduction was 10 percentage points instead of 15 percentage points.”
“I think that we can all very forcibly and convincingly argued that all these uses of CPF are different forms of investment and how important it is depends on the individual's needs. So when will this end? How are we going to ensure that the CPF bank - after all it is our bank - is not going to be further raided for current expenditure? I think it is time to say "no more", so that the primary objective of financial security at old age can be met. Half a million CPF members have more than $30,900 in their accounts. I think this figure bears scrutiny. The $30,900 includes sums withdrawn for housing schemes. If the amount spent on housing is deducted, I wonder how many members will really have enough balances to live on in retirement and have a roof over their heads which they can call their own. I wonder how many people will be forced to sell their houses in order to be able to live during their retirement and how long would that sum, realized from the sale of their flat or house, last them. Before we liberalize any more the early use or misuse of CPF funds, we should look more seriously at financial security at old age and I hope that speakers after me will share this concern and debate this very important topic. Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe (Marine Parade GRC): Sir, with your permission, can I take all the amendments which I have together?”
“During the debate in the Committee of Supply last year, I spoke out against the use of CPF for education because of my concern for security at old age and the opening up of a Pandora's box. I am still against CPF for education even though Government has bowed to public opinion. This is because I feel that there are adequate loans available either from the NUS or from the revolving fund for local education and one really does not need to dip into the parent's CPF savings for this purpose. I am concerned that the stage is now set for more requests to be made. One of them would be, quite logically following from yesterday's announcement, overseas tertiary education. We have already in today's Straits Times the opinion expressed by one journalist. So the pressure is already starting and I hear from my colleagues in Parliament who held the meet-the-people sessions last night that already there are requests for the use of CPF for overseas tertiary education. I hope that this time the Minister for Labour will stand firm and resist the pressure. Another request that would be put up is the use of CPF savings for education in our vocational institutes. The sum is not small but again to the parents it may be a sum not to be sniffed at. It is particularly in the case of the lower income families. So where do we draw the line? Where do we stop? The next request which has already been aired in this House is for the use of CPF for home renovation and who is to say that home renovation is not a form of investment? We have read not so long ago in the context of our policies on procreation somebody suggesting that CPF funds should be used for the financial support of a woman who is raising an infant.”
“Sir, I wish to express my concern over the proliferation of the early use of CPF, and I believe that what I have to say would be the concern and views of a number of Members, including yourself. Sir, the primary objective of the CPF scheme is financial security at old age. Now the question is: will members have enough to live on when they retire? We all recall that when the minimum sum proposal was put up, many people stated that the sum of $30,000 was not enough. An annuity paying $230 to $250 per month is not much to live on. It is a subsistence sum and not a sum adequate for maintaining a lifestyle that we are used to before retirement. This means that unless a member has other savings or investments over and above the minimum sum, he must expect a lower level of comfort in his retirement. It is against this backdrop that we should examine the extended use of CPF savings. These savings can be used for the purchase of a house or flat and is partially used for hospitalization expenses. In respect of Medisave, it would appear that members consider it more as a scheme for current consumption than for hospitalization costs during retirement, and we have just heard from the Acting Minister for Health that it will be used for dialysis. I do not know what further current use of Medisave would be requested by the members of the public and articulated in this House and acceded to by the Minister for Health. We have allowed it to be invested in stocks and shares and yesterday we heard from the Minister for Labour that CPF funds can now be used as a loan for tertiary education in our local institutions. This, as we all recall, is a result of a lot of pressure from the Backbenchers in what I would term a "misguided compassionate crusade".”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head R of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, with your permission could I take (a) and (b) first and leave the other amendments till later?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I have a series of supplementary questions for the Minister. First, would the CPF member be permitted to use his CPF savings to finance his own tertiary education? We have been talking about financing the education of children but can he use it to finance his own tertiary education? And, if so, could he be permitted to use it for overseas education, say,to pursue a Ph.D, especially if he has already got a house or an apartment worth more than $30,900; and if this sum is considered to be too small, would he be permitted if he already owns a house worth more than half a million dollars? On the question of default on repayment,is it the CPF Board who will prosecute? If the member does not want the CPF Board to prosecute the son for his default of repayment, then what would be the position of the CPF Board?”
“They drive a country forward but ideals will only produce certain results and I submit to Mr Chiam that in the days of the Empire it was not pure idealism that drove British people overseas to conquer foreign lands. It was more than just idealism. It was also the rewards that went with it. If there was no reward, would we have gone through a period of struggle for independence, if we did not see the benefits accrued to the colonial power and not to the people? And we all know how the people in charge of the empire lived, even in our own country. Were they not staying in the Istana free of charge? Were they not living in Command House? We all know that the colonial administrator was amply rewarded and perhaps with all the trappings they were much better paid in the past than what is being paid to our Ministers today. Sir, with your indulgence, I would also like to touch on another point about civil servants. Although I say that priority should be given to those who set policy, it does not mean that we should forget the civil service because the implementers are also important. We have had the revision of salaries for civil servants but I would like to voice what some of my friends who have been working in the civil service said, and that is, the question of promotion. It is not merely the pay but also the hassle that he has to go through in order to get promoted. Some of these civil servants who were seconded to the NTUC have related to us the kind of hassle that they have to go through in order to get promoted. I think that apart from revising the salaries of civil servants we should look also very seriously into the pace and manner of promotion of civil servants.”
“I think he relishes the position he is in today where he can walk into any factory to get the job that he wants. If he does not like the job, he can walk to the next factory to get a better paying job. So the price we are talking about today of $9 million per year in terms of wage increase for political appointees, for Members of Parliament, is a small price to pay. The Singapore worker also knows that in his own company his managers are paid more than our Ministers of State. Therefore he does not worry unduly about the wage increases that we are talking about giving to our Ministers when in fact they are still below the wages which their own managers are being paid. Our workers also know that in their workplace when the managers get pay increases there is no consultation about how much should the managers' wages be increased, not like what we are doing today of debating how much our Ministers, Ministers of State, Parliamentary Secretaries, ought to be paid. This I hope will be the spirit in which we discuss the subject of salary increases for our Ministers. Sir, the Singaporean knows that in our context, it is the policy maker who decides policy and if the policies are right, things go well for the country and it is quite ridiculous to consider that the policy-makers, the Ministers and Ministers of State, should be paid less than civil servants who in fact are the executors of the policy. If we want, first of all, the policies to be right then we ought to have the right people in those places, then comes the civil service. So our priority must be to make sure that in our system we always shall have the best talent available in the country in political leadership. Ideals are important.”
“Mr Chairman, Sir, a question has been asked about how workers in Singapore would view the salary increases that we are proposing for Ministers and other political office-holders. Sir, I submit that the Singapore worker is a very practical minded person. His aspiration is to have a good job that pays him well. What he wants in Singapore is to have a good political leadership that will be able to set the right policies, to attract the right investments, to get him a job. Having come through the recent recession, the Singapore worker knows that if we have the wrong people in charge, we would have a far worse recession and the alternative to good leadership would be not two years of wage restraint but perhaps several years of unemployment. The Singapore worker also knows that in the context of Southeast Asia and South Asia it is very important to stress on good leadership to create the right employment. Otherwise the Singapore worker would be like the Filipino maid, going overseas to look for jobs. Otherwise the Singapore worker could find himself in the same position as some of the Thai workers today. Perhaps if we do not have the right leadership to create the right policies, to formulate the right policies, to create the right employment, the Singapore worker himself will be forced to go overseas and perhaps to work illegally. Do we want our Minister to go overseas in order to bail them out to avoid their being punished by the laws of a different country? I think that is the price of good political leadership and the right kind of political leadership that we should have in Singapore. I sumit that the Singapore worker today wants to have a good job, wants to have a good pay and hopes that he shall never have to wander very far to find a job.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister that whilst he said that this was not the National Wages Council guideline for this year, since talent is limited and indeed, since labour in Singapore is limited, does he expect the private sector also to revise wages and salaries to match the civil service revision in order to attract talent and to attract labour? The second question I would like to ask him is on the performance bonus. This would depend very much upon the performance appraisal system being properly established, seen to be fair and fairly administered. So is he satisfied that the stage is now set for this to take place?”
“That is to say we must in the shortest possible time enable every worker to acquire a skill, and be filled with undaunting spirit of good work attitude and be highly productive and efficient. I hope the Government will give more consideration to this.”
“Furthermore, shortage of labour would usually cause the wages to increase, which would in turn cause our industries to lose their competitive edge. The undesirable result of increased wages would not pose undue harm to long term total economic development; it may even be a blessing in disguise. As a result of high degree of economic development, individual income level will be raised. The more capital matching each labour there is, the more marginal productivity there will be, and this in turn will increase the returns to labour undoubtedly. If the marginal productivity of labour could not increase in direct proportion to wages, then production cost would be raised and competitiveness would be weakened. Therefore, we should learn from the Japanese workers and try to maintain high degree of productivity and efficiency. Under the impact of increased wages and shortage of manpower, it is necessary for labour intensive industries to change their form of production, to increase capital establishment and reduce employment of labour. In other words, we must automate, to try to turn labour intensive industries to capital intensive industries, so as to change the form of production in our industries. The Government can play a more positive role in this respect. Foreign investment in our manufacturing industries has taken up 70%. Therefore, to create more employment, we should be more attractive for foreign investments. At the same time, we should also pay attention to our own existing enterprises which can play a complementary role. They are complementary to each other. To maintain our international competitiveness, the most important contributing factor is political stability. Next is human resource. Competitiveness depends on the promotion of education among our populace.”
“There are women who prefer to give up working and stay at home to look after the children. The Government should give them more tax relief, higher than $1,500 as a recognition for their contribution to the family. As for working women, the Government should have a comprehensive plan which should include: (1) building more creches and providing other facilities for working mothers in order to relieve their burden of looking after the children; (2) promoting flexible working time to facilitate the employment of married women; and (3) increasing the quantum of tax relief for women. At this transitional period, I hope the Government would consider not to increase the levy on foreign maids, because before more facilities like creches are popularly set up to meet the need, there is still the practical value and need for housewives to depend on house maids. At this juncture of labour shortage, the use of female labour would definitely help the situation. Our present problem of labour shortage should not be overlooked, particularly in the fields of manufacturing, construction, engineering, etc. Automation is the solution to labour shortage. This is the best means. But it cannot be done in just a short time. As long term solution cannot solve immediate problem, this situation has become a bottleneck in economic development. The Government's effort in promoting automation is very positive. However, the entreprenerus' will of automation is not universal. The cause may be mainly due to the shortage of funds and the difficulty in getting loans. If we depend too much on foreign labour to solve the problem of labour shortage, it will bring about great harm to our future generations. This can be learnt from some developed countries which have the experience of imported foreign labour.”
“Is this to be taken to mean that Government has forsaken its previous policy and therefore employers should be allowed a free inflow of foreign workers? I think not so. From my perspective, enough time has been given to employers. And I hope that we will not only talk, but we will also act to automate, to make use of robots to raise productivity. So, if we want to help the lower income, if we want them to shoulder the consumption tax, then let us move into better paying jobs and let us not to be overly dependent on cheap foreign labour. Sir, I support the motion. Mr Choo Wee Khiang (Marine Parade GRC)( In Mandarin): First, let me express my support for the Budget. Yesterday, several Members had given their constructive views on the Budget, such as on the consumption tax and others. To put it simply, it is a painless yet compassionate Budget. It also shows that the Government is firm on its stand on upholding good traditional cultural values. The Member for Siglap raised the topic that the increase of $1,500 tax relief for the wife is not enough. This brings to my mind the role of women in our nation building. They also have great contribution to play in our economic development and social progress. Therefore, they have an important position in our modern society, particularly when there is shortage of manpower and the desire not to depend too much on foreign labour. Therefore, women are basically welcome to come out of the kitchen to work outside. From a personal point of view, career women can also have an important role in helping the family enjoy higher income and maintain certain living standard of the family; moreover they have also the duty of inculcating value concept in the children. To modern career women, they are at a loss to know what to do.”
“And last year the wages of Korean workers, Taiwan workers and Hong Kong workers rose at a much faster rate than the wages of Singapore workers. So whilst we talk about euphoria over high growth, I do not think it is right to say that there has been euphoria over high growth in wages in the last few years. If there is no restoration of employers' contribution to CPF now, then when are we going to restore this cut? Is this to become an elusive dream to be chased by workers? We all know that in the past two years, profits have been up; employers are laughing all the way to the bank. So against this back-drop, workers will lose faith in employers and the Government if the employers' CPF rates are not restored by 4 percentage points this July. As for the foreign workers' levy, we cannot talk about helping the lower income without considering the depressive effect a large inflow of cheap foreign workers would have on lower end wages. I think this levy is necessary to balance the distortionary effect that foreign workers have on our labour market. Is the proposed rise to $250 per foreign worker per month too high? I think it would be better for employers to calculate whether that sum can finance the installation of automation equipment or robots. That is the way to beat the labour shortage without social cost of foreign workers. I agree that in dealing with our short-term problems, dialogue is always useful. Do we need longer time to prepare? I do recall that several years ago Government announced the policy of phasing out foreign workers. The Economic Committee changed that somewhat to say that we will have a smaller pool of revolving foreign workers.”
“The aim is to broaden the tax base - corporate tax, individual income tax, and consumption tax. At the same time, the procreation incentives aim at raising the number of taxpayers, so as to lessen the need for a higher consumption tax. And I believe it is wiser now to gradually introduce consumption tax. We make it easier for everyone to adjust if we allow ourselves more time for the introduction of this broad-based consumption tax. And if we consciously take into account the circumstances of the lower income, we can mitigate the effects of consumption tax on them. Let me turn to some other short-term problems that have also been expressed by Members of this House. As may be expected, several Members expressed the concern of employers on the proposed 4% restoration of employers' contribution to CPF, and also the foreign workers' levy. And it seems to me that there are more Members speaking out on behalf of employers than for workers. I think as regards the employers' CPF rates, there ought to be justice. Let us not forget that when the rate was slashed, it was slashed by 15 percentage points in one stroke. Workers accepted this in good faith. Today, we are not talking about restoring the cut in full. We are only talking about restoring 4 percentage points. And our wage costs are currently competitive. This came about because in 1986 and 1987 workers practically suffered a wage freeze. And if employers' contribution to CPF is taken into account, workers actually suffered a wage cut. You compare this with the other Asian NIEs - Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. They have not exercised wage freeze during the period; in fact, their wage cost has been going up.”
“We need not lower the corporate tax too fast because it would mean a faster introduction of consumption tax. So if the Minister is labelled as Mr 1%, so be it. I fully support him for not lowering the corporate too fast, too soon. Regressive as the tax may seem, I think the greater evil is in losing investment. So we will not be helping workers, and especially lower income workers, if we discourage investors. The second reason for this shift to consumption tax is our changing demographic structure. Whilst most are familiar with the reason for keeping our corporate taxes competitive, I think we need to look at the impact of the the tax base because of the change in the demographic structure. We know that the Government has got incentives for procreation. But the success of these policies, at best, remains uncertain. And even if some measure of success is achieved, we will still have a higher proportion of older people in the years ahead. By now, we are all familiar with the figures of today, 8.2 workers, or 8.2 taxpayers, will support one aged person aged 60 years and above. And by the year 2030, only 2.2 workers, or 2.2 taxpayers, will support each elder citizen. If the corporate tax cannot be increased sufficiently because of expansion of business, then revenue must come from elsewhere. Should this burden be faced by the income taxpayers, the workers, in the future? It is a possibility. But I am sure that workers in the future, especially when 2.2 taxpayers have to support each elder citizen, they would balk at the prospect of a higher tax burden. So we need to raise revenue from a different base. Hence, the consumption tax. So I view the financial policy as one that looks long term.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, several Members have expressed their concern over the introduction of consumption tax yesterday. I share this concern over the impact consumption tax would have on the lower income. However, I believe the Minister is equally concerned and this has been shown by the very cautious manner in which he has decided to introduce consumption tax. His concern over the impact of the tax would have on the lower income has led him to exempt the first $40 on the monthly PUB bill from the tax. The lower income would therefore be unlikely to pay consumption tax on this item. He has also levied tax on the telephone bill for residents. We know that the vast majority of people living in 1-room flats, and most people also in 2-room flats, would not have telephones. So they would not be paying this tax. I share the view expressed by the Member for Brickworks GRC Mr Chay Wai Chuen that we should take into account the situation of the lower 25%. And I think the implementation of these two taxes has reflected the concern for the lower income. If the Minister continues to take into account the circumstances of the lower income, particularly the 25%, and selectively levies consumption taxes, then I believe the poor would be largely spared the burden of consumption tax. Whilst I am concerned with the possible impact that consumption tax may have on the lower income, I must state that I support the shift in tax policy. Why? First of all, we must recognize that giving favourable treatment to the lower income whilst desirable, has its limits. The best way of helping the poor is to get them jobs, and better-paying jobs, and jobs come from investments. Since we have to compete for investments, we must take into account the attractiveness of the cor- porate tax.”
“But we must be aware that the dispersion of families explains why maids are in such popular demand today because the families are already dispersed. I can, and I am sure most Members, understand the position in which many of our working parents find themselves in. But at the same time, we must be conscious of this steady erosion of family ties. Otherwise, the problem of caring for children and caring for the elderly in the next century will be a difficult one. And who are the elderly in the next century? Alas, it will be most of us, especially those below the age of 40. Hence, it is of great importance that we enshrine upholding the family unit as a basic building block of society, as one of our core values if this society is to endure. Sir, I support the motion.”
“And here let me quote from an article in The Mirror of 1st January 1989: 'As a result of medical progress, such care is now also needed for a longer period than in the past; this places even greater strains on the next generation of helpers. It is like an endless circle which can only continue as long as families are willing to take on these strenuous tasks of playing the good Samaritan - free of charge. If this were not the case, the costs would be so great that they would eventually lead to the collapse of the whole welfare system.' One sociologist said: 'Family care is a concept which almost exclusively involves daughters caring for their parents. In almost all cases it is the woman's job to take on this extra responsibility and as a result she is often put under so much pressure that she becomes ill herself.' Unfortunately, this may be a scenario that would come to us if we do not take the right measures. So what do the West Germans propose as part of the policy changes which they would carry out? I quote: 'In housing policy, increasing consideration is to be given to what are known as "multi-generation households". In the future, households in which people aged over 62 live with their children can hope to receive increased financial help with their rent. Measures of this kind are to facilitate the integration of young and old.' I feel that we need to take note of the rate in which our nuclear households are breaking up. It is said that every young couple when they get married want to have their home as far away as possible from the in-laws. This is when they leave the family nest. It is further said that they think of their parents only when the first child comes along. This is because at different times, the individual considers his different needs.”
“Needless to say, because there are more Chinese employers, there are more advertisements for Chinese workers. But how would the minorities feel? So I fully agree with the Member for Boon Lay when he called for an abolition of discrimination of this kind. Mr Speaker, Sir, whatever our ethnic background, our religious faith, I think few would take issue with the need to uphold the family as a basic building block of society. This is a core value which I feel almost all of us Singaporeans share. I hope it is 100%. It is a core value that we would do well to preserve, especially in our ageing society. So far the main emphasis in the debate over the increase on the foreign maid levy has been on child care. I support the call for more child care centres to meet the differing needs of our working parents. By "differing needs" mean the different levels of affordability of those parents. Because I do not think that we should set up child care centres of one standard. We could have child care centres of differing standards to meet the different needs of working parents. But in the area of care for the elderly, whilst this is not currently a very pressing issue, it is one that will grow in importance as the proportion of our elderly population increases. We can learn from the experiences of other countries which have had to tackle the problem earlier. In West Germany, the proportion of people aged 60 and above is already 20%, and will rise further to 30%. So how to care for the elderly is already a problem and it can strain their welfare system. Some of their sociologists have already come to the conclusion that family care is the realistic option for the vast majority of cases.”
“We have others: "Receptionist cum General Clerk (Malay)". It may be because of convenience that these companies advertised for such people because perhaps in seeking for a Chinese, the company expects somebody to be able to speak not only Mandarin but some dialects to communicate with fellow workers or their clients. But I think we should specify the skills required rather than the race. And what surprised me also was that there were some ads for general workers where the skills level would be minimal. Let me quote from two: "Urgently required Malay General Workers." Another one says: "A manufacturing firm requires: Male Chinese General Workers." For this level, I wonder whether there is a need to specify the race. With regard to religion, although the numbers of these advertisements are small, I came across one which states: "Urgently required Salesman. Born-again Christian." Another advertisement says: Needed one Christian female helper for snackbar. So these advertisements, I feel, have an unnecessary stress on race and religion. I was also surprised in this context of looking through the advertisements to find one advertisement from the Mendaki Computer Centre advertising for a computer lecturer and specifying that the applicant should be a Muslim Singapore citizen. I would think that one should get the best available person for the job. And if there are two candidates who are equally good, then I can understand why Mendaki should give the job to a Muslim. But otherwise the criterion should be the best candidate available. I would prefer if employers specify the skills required rather than race or religion. This is because we must be conscious of the sensitivities that may be aroused by those who read the advertisements.”
“I accept, however, the need to provide certain assistance to Malay-Muslims that may not be extended generally to all communities such as free schooling. There was the sentiment expressed yesterday by one of our Malay-Muslim colleagues over the availability of job opportunities to the minorities. The Member for Boon Lay also called for the abolition of discrimination by race, age and sex in job advertisements. I am also aware of the advertisements referred to by the Member for Boon Lay. I spent one morning in late December scanning through the classified ads in the Straits Times to see if the examples quoted by the Member for Boon Lay were the exception rather than the rule. A large number of advertisements, sadly, unwisely appear to discriminate on the basis of age and sex. Unfortunately, we do have a number of advertisements that appear to discriminate on the basis of race and religion. All these examples could be lifted from a single day's advertisements in the Straits Times. If any of you wish to verify, you may see for yourselves. I have some examples which are taken not from one day but over two or three days. Mr Speaker, Sir, allow me to quote: 'Wanted Typist Cum Telex Operator, preferably Indian.' 'A well established Company in Orchard Road requires a Confidential Secretary. Preferably Indian/ Eurasian.' 'Malay Junior Secretary required for maintenance Company at Bt Panjang.' We have also: "Secretarial cum Clerical. Requirements: Chinese female." Another advertisement says: "Chinese female Receptionist". And one company required a "Male/female (Chinese)". And to my surprise, an American company, which should know better, advertised for an Accounts Clerk: "Chinese only". And we have also another advertisement which says: "Chinese Female Bank Clerk".”
“These examples serve to illustrate that certain values take pre-eminence at different times in different societies. So, at our stage of development, recognizing our background, we must examine what values are needed. We need a set of values that will bind us together, yet allow us to exercise our individual rights, to our diverse cultural heritages, and our individual rights to use our own language, and practise our own faith. Our common goal must be the progress of our country for the overall good. Within this context, every individual benefits to the maximum possible. Progress for all is achievable only if we know not only our individual rights but our individual responsibilities to society. Yesterday the Member for Siglap also forcefully argued that the progress of the minorities must also be the concern of the majority. I agree with him. If we regard each person, irrespective of race, language or religion, as a Singaporean, then his welfare must be the concern of everyone. I do remember that when Mendaki was first set up, as an initiative by the Malay-Muslim community, to improve the education of Malay-Muslims, there were funds donated by other communities as well. We share in the aspiration of the Malay-Muslims. The trade unions raised funds for Mendaki. Equally important to note, I believe, is that there are the poor in every community. The poor among the majority community are large in numbers also. Just as the minorities expect support from the Government in order to catch up, so too do the poor among the Chinese expect support from the Government. And Government cannot give to one group of the less privileged and not to another. So let us accept that the less well-off in our society, irrespective of race, language or religion, deserve our equal attention.”
“We should recognize that desirable values are part of the culture and religion of every group. The task is to identify what is common and what is desirable in our multi-racial and multi-religious society. Indeed, it is a search for these values that we all share, values that will unite us rather than divide us. It is also important to note that at different times there may be an emphasis on particular values. The challenge is whether we can instill a set of values that will stand the test of time - a set of values that will continue to foster national cohesion in spite of the changing environment in which we live. These are desirable values that will help to drive the society forward, and of course our society forward. Let us look, for example, the United States in its earlier years. In its expansion from the east coast to the west, in its drive to develop and populate the vast continent, there was a need to stress a pioneering spirit, one of self-reliance, independence and enterprise, as captured in the phrase "Go West, young man!". This was a stress on individual initiative. But it did not mean that group interests did not feature in early US society. Grouping for mutual interest was also important - otherwise there would not have been any wagon trains in the push westwards. Group interest is not a value that Americans discard How strongly they feel about that value depends on the needs of the times. I am sure all of us know the famous line of John Kennedy: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." This, to me, means placing society before self; responsibility of the individual towards society rather than for the individual to ask of the state what he can get out of it.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, yesterday several Members spoke on the proposal to formulate a national ideology. The comments by Malay/ Muslim Members of the House reflect a disturbing uneasiness among the minority groups on this proposal. One Member stated that the minority communities were afraid the national ideology would mean imposing the values of the majority on the other communities. Another Member said that his community suspected that it was an attempt by the majority to subjugate the minorities. Personally, I feel that the two words, "impose" and "subjugate", are very strong and emotive words. And yet another Member urged that "core values must be universally accepted". These fears reflect a lack of understanding over the objectives of the proposal to formulate a national ideology, and perhaps an anxiety over what constitutes core values. The apprehension of the minority communities is understandable. But these fears must be allayed. Yet it is because we are a multi-racial and multi-religious society that we must stress racial and religious tolerance. If we accept this as a core value in our national ideology, it means that no one group should impose its values on the others. Far from subjugating the minorities, the national ideology seeks to allow each person his place in the State. If we are to live in peace and harmony, we must have a common set of values that bind rather than divide us, all of us. That is why it is all the more important that we seek out what core values we all share, in spite of our multi-racial and multi-religious background. We should recognize from the very outset of this search, that no one community, nor one religion, has a monopoly over desirable values.”
“10 of 1988 as the basis for preparing a Bill for an elected President. ADJOURNMENT Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn to a date to be fixed.". - [Mr Wong Kan Seng]. Adjourned accordingly at Twenty- eight Minutes past Three o'clock pm to a date to be fixed. ASSENT TO BILLS PASSED The following Bills were assented to by the President of the Republic of Singapore on the date stated: 16th August, 1988 (i) Homes for the Aged Bill; (ii) Singapore Academy of Law Bill; (iii) Public Utilities (Amendment) Bill; (iv) Electrical Workers and Contractors Licensing (Amendment) Bill; (v) Public Service (Monthly Variable Component and Non-Pensionable Annual Allowance) Bill; (vi) Bankruptcy (Amendment) Bill; (vii) Carriage by Air Bill; and (viii) Employment (Amendment) Bill. Sixth Parliament dissolved on 17th August, 1988.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the many speakers who have spoken on the motion. I think most have spoken with feeling and after much thought on the subject. The valuable contributions that Members have made, as the First Deputy Prime Minister has said, would help the Government to draft a Bill for the purpose of an elected President and also the various points on how it would operate, the difficulties that Members foresee, would have to be ironed out when the Bill is being drafted. In summary, I think we can say that the House agrees that there should be safeguards for our reserves and that we agree that there should be safeguards for the integrity of our civil service. We all agree that we should find some form of mechanism to build these safeguards into our Constitution. Most Members agree that an elected President is one method of achieving this objective whilst some may prefer to explore other means further. The main concern has been the worry over the balance of power between the President and the Prime Minister and, if I read the views of Members of this House, if these powers could be clearly defined, if the inexactitudes could be removed, then the system can work. These and other operational details would have to be debated further when the Bill is presented to Parliament and I am sure that the public would also join us in the discussion on the proposed Bill. Finally, I would like to thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to move this motion and to thank everyone for participating. Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That this House supports the principles set out in the White Paper 'Constitutional Amendments to Safeguard Financial Assets and the Integrity of the Public Services' which was presented to Parliament as Paper Cmd.”
“I do not recall having said what the Member for Potong Pasir accuses me of saying.”
“Point of clarification. Mr Deputy Speaker: Mr Chiam, will you allow Mr Lim to clarify? Mr Chiam See Tong resumed his seat.”
“I think the elected President could be a kind of preventive measure. In other words, he can only prevent things from happening and not a kind of a measure to just take care of something when it has happened. Even so, I believe that if our people could continue to maintain their good qualities and be vigilant against the corrosive thoughts of taking an easy life, if they could keep on with their good value concepts and good living habits, and do not fall into the traps of some opportunist politicians' enticement fancying to enjoy easy subsidised life without paying any price. That is the best way to safeguard our future. Sir, finally, on the proposition, the question of whether the new proposal should be put to a referendum, I feel that it is not necessary, because about this amendment proposal we all can accept that it is a very important proposal with deep and far reaching influence and consequences. I believe the Government would not be proposing this Bill in a hurry and pass it in Parliament hurriedly. On the contrary, I feel the Government will give the people sufficient time to discuss it. One of the methods is that we know that this year would be a year of general election, we can put forward the elected President proposal as an issue for the general election instead of a referendum on it so that the people will have adequate time and all the political parties will also have sufficient time to discuss it. Then at the general election, the people can vote on it. If the Government receives the majority support of the people, it will also prove that the people support this amendment to the Constitution. Then we need not have another voting by the people to decide on this proposal. This would be killing two birds with one stone, saving time and saving effort.”
“We may have a good President but if we happen to have a bad government then the bad government even if it does not need to make use of the reserves but every year there is a deficit in the financial position, what will become the result of it? In the end the Government will have to borrow or to raise loans or by some other means to pay up the debts. When the pressure increases, it may be tempted to resort to the use of national reserves. Before there is any safeguard, I think it would be better for us to elect a good government. If one day Singaporeans become lazy and only want to enjoy life and do not want to be diligent and work for things they want but look only for enjoyment of easy life and getting things the easy way without paying for their price. In other words, our value concepts have changed, leading to a Government wanting to make use of the national reserves to please the people for their temporary satisfaction. Even with this safeguard of elected President, with his power written in the Constitution, the national reserves will still be squandered away, because the Govrnment can go through a refrendum to circumvent the President's objection. Therefore, I feel that in the final analysis, the safeguard lies in the people themselves, in their electing a good government. So it depends on their sense of judgment based on the value concept of the people, on their maintaining the good value concepts that have been passed down to them so that they may choose a good government. In other words, to safeguard their hard-earned reserves and to maintain efficient civil service, the people should continue to elect a capable and honest government every time. We should not think that because of this safeguard of an elected President, then we could rest and feel safe.”