S Jayakumar
Singapore
“It is well and good for countries to announce various targets and emissions. But one vexing issue ultimately is: what will be the method for verifying compliance with each country's announced measures? Another vexing issue, of course, is the issue of financing.”
“I would appreciate it if she were to give me some specifics of the negative feedback. But the general feedback I have had about our judiciary, both of the Supreme Court and the Subordinate Courts, has been nothing but positive.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the information that I have is that there is always medical advice present when caning is administered and that if the medical opinion is that caning cannot proceed beyond a certain point, that medical opinion will be observed and the caning will not proceed.”
“Mr Liang Eng Hwa asked the Minister for Transport in view of the recent announcement to make immediate improvements to the public transport system (a) whether the Ministry has set a timeline for the increase in frequency of feeder bus services; and (b) whether the Ministry can immediately target such services that are currently running at…”
“SCDF will continue to work with HDB and other relevant agencies to ensure that such older buildings with one exit staircase meet the prevailing fire safety requirements when they undergo major renovation or upgrading works. CIVIL SERVICE PENSIONERS 3.”
“The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports (Mr Teo Ser Luck) (for the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports): Mr Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to take Mrs Jessie Phua's and Dr Lim Wee Kiak's questions together as they both relate to the same issues.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,291 lines we hold for S Jayakumar, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 30 of 66.
“If it is not deliberate, if it is just an anomaly, then I suggest that we could easily correct it by putting in the words in the amendment that stands in my name. The second part, the doctrine of stare decisis, I have already made my points in the speech on the Second Reading and I would urge the Minister to put in this clause so that it is clear beyond doubt that our Court of Appeal is not bound. It is possible for the Court of Appeal to do this itself. In other words, to issue a practice direction saying "we are not bound by prior decisions". In fact, if the Court of Appeal can be induced to do this, this particular amendment would not be necessary. Question proposed.”
“Clause 15 - Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon: Sir, I beg to move, (1) In page 7, line 11, after "original" to insert "or revisionary". Sir, again, I beg the House's indulgence to bring these rather technical matters before the House. The amendments I propose in clause 15 actually come in two parts. The first part is to deal with an anomaly in our system and the second part deals with the doctrine of stare decisis that I have already mentioned in my earlier speech on the Second Reading of the Bill. Let me just explain to the Members of this House. The High Court in Singapore has got three types of jurisdiction. Firstly, it has got original jurisdiction to hear cases at first instance. In other words, full trials. Secondly, it has appellate jurisdiction. It hears cases on appeal from the Subordinate Courts. Thirdly, there is another sort of jurisdiction that we have that does not exist in England, and that is revisionary jurisdiction. A High Court Judge can call for the record of a case heard in the courts below, Subordinate Courts, and change the decision or correct any misimpressions. This revisionary jurisdiction was necessary because in the old days there were lay magistrates who might not necessarily have proper training and this kind of revisionary jurisdiction we actually inherited from India. While there is provision for appeals from the High Court in the exercise of its appellate and original jurisdiction, there is no provision for appeal in the exercise of its revisionary jurisdiction. This has been an anomaly that has existed for many years, and perhaps it is deliberate. So I would welcome the Minister's clarification on that.”
“Since the assertion of extra-territorial jurisdiction also has implications in international law, I would prefer to proceed quite cautiously. Any provision conferring extra-territorial jurisdiction should actually provide sufficient details so as not to lead to problems in the application of that provision. A balance will have to be struck between having too wide or too narrow a provision. I am not ruling this out completely, but I think it is a matter which really requires a cautious approach and study. I understand that the UK Law Commission made a study of the subject of jurisdiction over offences of fraud and dishonesty with a foreign element in 1989. The Commission referred to the New Zealand provision and although it accepted the principle, it did not recommend the adoption of the wording. Its recommendations which were more elaborate have, in fact, to-date, not been enacted into law. So let us be cautious and, for the time being, we will not be able to accept this amendment. Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon: Sir, I appreciate the Minister's caution. I just hope that we do not regret it by letting a big fish go. Let me just say that the amendment that the Minister has proposed will not entirely cover it, because you require a written law to specifically state that the offence is triable in Singapore. And most of our written laws do not make this provision. In fact, I cannot offhand think of anything that has this extra-territorial trial sort of provision. I am glad that the Minister has not ruled it out entirely. I think this is an area we should look into and I hope we do not get ourselves burnt before we do find that we need something like this. Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 10 to 14 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.”
“Sir, let me explain why it will not be possible for me to accept this amendment, although the reasons given by him and his objectives are laudable. First of all, let me say that the amendment which I moved earlier and which has been accepted already covers the situation of offences being committed outside Singapore because the new paragraph (f) gives jurisdiction over where the offence is committed. It says: `in any place or by any person if it is provided in any written law that the offence is triable in Singapore.' But he would go further to provide where the effects are felt in Singapore. I agree that our courts should have the necessary jurisdiction to deal with offences and national crimes. But the amendment that he has proposed is quite far-reaching and has got considerable implications which should really be studied both in principle and in detail. I believe his draft is adapted from the New Zealand Crimes Act, section 7, and in his draft it could be that he has added the words, "or if the effects of the offence are felt in Singapore". Even without these words, "or if the effects ... are felt in Singapore", I think the wording could not be sufficient to deal with the complexity or the multitude of offences which our courts have to deal with. I am also very concerned with the phrase "if the effects ... are felt in Singapore", because it is very wide. For example, if a Singaporean businessman is murdered in another country, it can be said that the effects are felt in Singapore, if he has a business in Singapore or his family is in Singapore. So where do we draw the line? Perhaps it can be drawn but I think it has to be studied very carefully.”
“Sir, I beg to move, In page 4, to leave out lines 12 to 14 inclusive, and insert- "(b) by deleting the word "and" at the end of paragraph (d); and (c) by deleting the full-stop at the end of paragraph (e) and substitutingthe word "; and", and by inserting immediately thereafter the following paragraph: "(f) in any place or by any person if it is provided in anywritten law that the offence is triable in Singapore.".". Sir, the amendment is a drafting amendment. Instead of the words presently moved in the Bill to paragraph (e), we think that it is better to have this additional paragraph (f), "in any place or by any person if it is provided in any written law that the offence is triable in Singapore", because it is also in harmony with a similar amendment in the Subordinate Courts (Amendment) Bill. It is an improvement which, I think, should be made. Question proposed. Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon: Sir, I am not sure this is the right place for me to move this particular amendment because I will be speaking on the question, "That the clause stand part of the Bill" and proposing a substitution. But I defer to your ruling, Sir.”
“I might as well say now that it is unlikely that we will be able to agree to the amendments. But one benefit of his contributions is that it has drawn our attention to the need to harmonise one aspect of the Supreme Court of Judicature (Amendment) Bill with the Subordinate Courts (Amendment) Bill. As a result of that, I will move an amendment to this Bill in Committee stage. Mr Chia Shi Teck mentioned about the Privy Council. I think he might have missed what I said, ie, with the establishment of this Court, we will indeed have to review the existing limited rights of appeal to the Privy Council. We are not in a hurry to do that. Let the Court of Appeal be established and then we will take our time to review it and see when and how the appeals to Privy Council should be phased out. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Prof. Jayakumar]. Bill considered in Committee. [Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Abdullah Tarmugi) in the Chair] Clauses 1 to 8 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 9 -”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank those who have spoken. I will quickly respond to the points raised. Firstly, the points raised by Dr Arthur Beng. As to the criteria for cases to be sent to the Subordinate Courts, first of all, he would have noted that this is for civil cases. I understand that the criterion really will be whether there is congestion in the High Court and to have the cases decided early. Therefore, I would think that this will not upset the parties because the parties from both sides will be interested - this being a civil case - in the early resolution of the matter, and if by sending it to the Subordinate Courts will enable an early resolution, I think the parties will welcome it. Secondly, on the increased limit, I think this is consistent because he must bear in mind that this is related to the corresponding increase in the jurisdiction of the District Court to $100,000. Thirdly, on the issue of remand when an appeal is filed, of course, this would only be in rare cases and also I wish to emphasise that this would not automatically be applied but it is up to the courts. The courts must be satisfied that there are very good reasons and the Public Prosecutor has to adduce good reasons why this must be done. So I do not think that there need be fear because it is not automatic or mandatory and the court will have to regard this special power or remand only when it is satisfied. Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon raised the question which I believe he is going to raise under the amendments to the Bill concerning the doctrine of stare decisis. Perhaps I should reserve my comments when we come to the Committee stage. If I may make a general point about his amendments, I welcome his contributions to enable us to focus on different aspects of the Bill.”
“Sir, the other substantive amendments contained in the Bill relate to the use of experts as assessors to assist the High Court in cases which require technical or scientific knowledge (clause 7) and the authorization of solicitors or their employees to exercise the powers and perform the duties of the Sheriff in order to alleviate the shortage of manpower in the High Court (clause 24). Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”
“The Chief Justice may exercise such power where he considers it necessary or expedient to improve efficiency in the administration of justice and to provide for more speedy disposal of cases. In making such an order, the Chief Justice may also provide a District Court with the necessary jurisdiction to determine such proceedings. The clause is wide enough to enable the Chief Justice to extend the jurisdiction of the District Courts to hear and determine matrimonial cases, companies winding up petitions, bankruptcy petitions and certain other matters not otherwise within the subject jurisdiction of the District Courts. Clause 22 empowers the High Court to make an order, on the application of the Public Prosecutor, for an accused person who has been acquitted by the Court to be remanded in custody pending the filing of an appeal by the Public Prosecutor. This is to ensure that an accused person, especially a foreigner, will not be able to abscond immediately he is released on acquittal when steps are being taken to lodge an appeal. Clause 17 restricts the right of appeal to the reconstituted Court of Appeal in order to check the number of unmeritorious or unimportant appeals, especially on interlocutory matters. The minimum value of the subject matter involved for which there is an automatic right of appeal from the High Court to the Court of Appeal will be increased from $2,000 to $30,000. Clause 13 increases the minimum value for which there is an automatic right of appeal from the Subordinate Courts to the High Court from $2,000 to $5,000.”
“After we separated from Malaysia, the provision was retained in the Act when it was passed in 1969 although the intention, according to the then Minister of Law, was to revert to the position before we joined Malaysia. Prior to 1964, the general civil jurisdiction of the High Court in actions in personam was unlimited and founded on service of a writ on a defendant either in Singapore or abroad. When the defendant was abroad, leave of the court was required to ensure that the case was a proper one for service out of the jurisdiction. The court exercised caution in granting leave, as service of a writ on a defendant in another country might cause injustice or hardship to a foreign defendant. The requirement for leave of the court was in effect removed by the present section 16 so that service of a writ outside Singapore is allowed so long as the conditions specified in section 16 are satisfied. The amendment of section 16 will place the High Court in exactly the position as it was before 1964 and in the position of the High Court of Judicature in England today in relation to countries outside the European Economic Community. Next, clause 9 amends section 15 so that the High Court will have the criminal jurisdiction to try offences committed on board a Singapore ship or aircraft wherever the ship may be. The High Court will also have jurisdiction to try an offence committed by any person outside Singapore where the offence is punishable under any written law which expressly provides that the offence is punishable even if committed outside Singapore. Sir, clause 14 empowers the Chief Justice to allocate civil proceedings commenced in the High Court to be heard and determined in the District Court.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." Sir, this Bill seeks to amend the Supreme Court of Judicature Act in a number of ways. Let me highlight the more important features. First, the Bill gives effect to the proposed reorganisation of the present Court of Appeal and Court of Criminal Appeal into a permanent single Court of Appeal. Clause 15 provides for the constitution and jurisdiction of the reorganised Court of Appeal. The Court of Appeal shall consist of the Chief Justice and the Judges of Appeal. Except on the request of the Chief Justice where circumstances require, Judges of the High Court will no longer sit in the Court of Appeal. The Court of Appeal shall exercise appellate civil and criminal jurisdiction. Clause 15 also provides for the composition of the Court of Appeal. Its jurisdiction is usually exercised by three Judges of Appeal. However, two Judges of Appeal will suffice for the purpose of determining an appeal against an interlocutory order or any other order except a judgment obtained after a trial of an action commenced by writ or after the hearing of an action or matter commenced by any other originating process. With a separate tier of appellate Judges, it is necessary to set out the order of precedence among Judges of the Supreme Court, and this is done in clause 3. Next, clause 10 amends section 16 of the Act to re-define the original civil jurisdiction of the High Court. Sir, the basis of the existing general civil jurisdiction of the High Court as set out in section 16 is really not satisfactory in principle or in practice. That provision is modelled after a similar provision in the Malaysian Courts of Judicature Act 1964 which applied to us when we were part of Malaysia.”
“Now, Sir. I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Third time."”
“In this way, the number of part-heard cases can be reduced, thereby improving the administration of justice in the High Court. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”
“A separate tier of appellate Judges to be called Judges of Appeal will be appointed under the amended Article 95. As from the date the amendments take effect, all new Judges, other than the Chief Justice, will be appointed either as Judges of the High Court or Judges of Appeal. As for existing Judges, all Judges of the Supreme Court are appointed under existing Article 95 and holding office at the date the amendments take effect will continue to hold office as Judges of the High Court. The expression "Judge of the Supreme Court" will continue to be used as a convenient generic term to include the Chief Justice, a Judge of Appeal and a Judge of the High Court. Sir, the creation of this permanent single Court of Appeal with a separate tier of appellate Judges will, in my view, improve and rationalise the administration of justice at the appellate level. The Judges of Appeal will be able to devote their full time to appellate cases and play a greater role in the judicial development of our law. With the creation of the permanent single Court of Appeal, the limited rights of appeal to the Privy Council may in due course be reviewed with a view to its eventual removal. Finally, the Bill also provides for the appointment of a Judicial Commissioner to hear a specified case only. At present, a Judicial Commissioner must be appointed for a specified period. After the amendments take effect, a Judicial Commissioner may, for instance, be appointed to hear a case for which he may have special expertise. Or he may be appointed to hear a case which is originally fixed before a Judge so that that Judge can complete an ongoing case which would otherwise have to be adjourned as part-heard.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." Sir, this Bill seeks to introduce amendments to the Constitution which, together with certain of the other proposed amendments to the Supreme Court of Judicature Act contained in a separate Bill, will enable a permanent single Court of Appeal to be created. Our Constitution, as currently worded, provides for the appointment of Judges of the Supreme Court. These Judges sit in the High Court, the Court of Appeal and the Court of Criminal Appeal as established by the Supreme Court of Judicature Act. The Court of Appeal hears civil appeals from the High Court while the Court of Criminal Appeal hears criminal appeals from the High Court. Both appellate courts are usually presided over by the Chief Justice who sits with two other Judges, the Judges taking turns to form a panel for each week's hearing. There are no separate Judges of Appeal and the same Judges sit as Judges of first instance in the High Court and as Judges in the two appellate courts subject to the rule that no Judge will sit in an appeal against his own decision. Members of the House will recall from press reports that the Chief Justice indicated at the opening of the legal year in January 1993 that there is a need to review the existing structure of the Supreme Court. This Bill before the House is one outcome of the review. Clause 3 of the Bill amends Article 94 of the Constitution so that the creation of the Court of Appeal as part of the Supreme Court is entrenched in the Constitution. The new Court of Appeal will replace the Court of Appeal and the Court of Criminal Appeal established by the Supreme Court of Judicature Act. Clause 4 of the Bill amends Article 95 of the Constitution regarding the appointment of Judges.”
“Sir, I do not see any need for doing that. All the proper procedures provided by the law were followed.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I am completely satisfied. First of all, as we have pointed out publicly, neither counsel in this case nor Samat raised the question of voluntariness of the confession until 24 months after the arrest. Even when the issue of voluntariness was raised, no allegation was made as to assault, threat or inducement, etc. In fact, all that the counsel said when it was raised 24 months later was, and I quote: 'We are instructed by our client that his statements were not voluntarily given. Our client learned of the details of the murder from his wife who had learned them from the Crime Watch programme of the offence.' The Crime Watch programme was telecast in June. One month later, in July, the wife supposedly told Samat of the details. She could remember all the details. Two months later, he was arrested. Three months after the Crime Watch programme, he was able to recount the details. This is the only thing that was said about the confession. Thirdly, as I said publicly, all the proper procedures were followed. Samat never complained before or after the recording of the statements. Finally, Sir, it was not just Samat who was arrested and questioned. Three other suspects were also arrested and questioned, and were released.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member says that it was found that the confession was not true. He has been misinformed. There was no such finding by the Court. Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon: Sir, will the Minister say whether he is satisfied that there was no impropriety in obtaining the confession?”
“As to the exact date when the Presidential Elections will be held, of course, he and other Members in this House must wait for the announcement, a promulgation of the writ. But as he knows, one of the two "window" periods is three months before the expiry of the term of the incumbent. So I think he can work backwards and see that the first "window" period will be after 31st May but before 1st September, which is the expiry of the term of President Wee Kim Wee. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Prof. S. Jayakumar]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. ADJOURNMENT”
“We should take that under consideration because it may help to solve the problem about transportation of ballot boxes during parliamentary elections. It takes up a lot of time and it also does delay the counting and declaration of results during parliamentary elections. But let us observe how it works during the Presidential Elections and if it is found workable, we may want to consider it for parliamentary elections.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the two speakers who have spoken. Dr Arthur Beng referred to the safeguards and I wish to reiterate that the safeguards which are to be found in the Parliamentary Elections Act on ballot boxes, sealing up of ballot boxes, transportation, and so on, are all, as he would have noted, incorporated in the existing provisions. But, of course, the decentralised system of counting includes provisions not to be found presently in the Parliamentary Elections Act, and he asked me to elaborate on some of the other safeguards. I would mention a few. For example, at the decentralised counting places, the candidate or his election agent can be present to observe the counting of the votes. Next, in each counting place an Assistant Returning Officer will have to certify the record of the counting and that will be transmitted to the principal counting place. That certified record of counting, the candidate or his election agent can also affix a signature so that there can be no dispute as to whether that was the certified record which was later transmitted to the principal counting centre. At the principal counting centre, the secrecy of the vote is still ensured and all the ballot papers and documents used in the election will be sealed up once counting has been completed at the counting places and the certified record of counting has been transmitted. So once sealed, as he knows, they cannot be reopened or inspected without a court order in relation to an election petition. Mr Ho Peng Kee's point is about the decentralised system being introduced for the Presidential Elections. The point that he made is taken as to whether we can do that for parliamentary elections also.”
“We have considered this point that there may not be enough time for the PEC to consider and decide on applications. As Members know, a Presidential Election must take place in one of two situations. First, within three months before the expiry of the term of the incumbent President, which is section 6(1)(b) of the Act; and the second situation is if there is a vacancy, say, due to resignation or death within six months from the date when the vacancy arises (section 6(1)(a) of the Act). Sir, the Bill amends section 8 of the Act so that the candidates may apply to the PEC for a certificate during either of these "window" periods, that is to say, well before the writ is issued. However, the latest date to apply for the certificate is three days after the issue of the writ. In other words, this amendment allows potential candidates, people who desire to stand for election, to apply for the certificates well before the writ is issued and this will, therefore, give the PEC more time to consider their applications. The remaining amendments relate to the Election Judge. Sir, these changes will bring the Act in line with the Constitution, even as amended by the proposed Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Bill 1993 which is also before the House. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." Sir, this Bill makes two main changes to the Presidential Elections Act. Firstly, it amends sections 31 and 32 of the Act and introduces a new section 31A to allow decentralised counting of votes for Presidential Elections. Why is this change necessary? The existing system under the Act requires all ballot boxes throughout Singapore to be deposited and opened in one place before counting of votes can begin. Clearly, this is very cumbersome and time-consuming. Under the proposed decentralised system, votes will be counted at different counting places and the total results will be ascertained at one centre. Each candidate will be entitled to appoint one counting agent to attend the counting at each counting place. Once the votes are counted, a certified record of counting at that place will be prepared. The certified records of counting at all the counting places will then be transmitted to a principal counting place where the results of the different counting places will be added up to determine the total votes for each candidate. Therefore, the total results for each candidate will be announced thereafter. Decentralised counting of votes is a practical measure to facilitate and expedite the counting of votes. Members will note that the Bill has safeguards to ensure that the poll results are accurate in any such count. The second main amendment concerns the time for the Presidential Elections Committee (PEC) to consider applications for certificates of eligibility. Under existing provisions, applications can be made only after the writ is issued and the latest date is not less than two clear days before Nomination Day.”
“On half-way houses, SCORE does give start-up capital grants for new half-way houses. I understand some six half-way houses have been given grants of almost $1 million in all. But I do not think it is necessary to give operating grants because the organisations to which the half-way houses are affiliated have been able to manage with their funds. On the question of leases, Home Affairs and CNB will take it up with URA and other agencies like Land Office. On drugs, I think I have touched on Mr Choo Wee Khiang's question on drugs. On glue-sniffing, I think it is no longer a serious problem. In 1987, we enacted the Intoxicating Substances Act. At that time we detected more than 1,000 cases. I think last year, there were only about 300 cases, a tremendous drop. And what is important is the number of inhalant abusers below the age of 20 has also dropped quite significantly from 72 in 1987 to about 53 in 1992. On inhalant substances, I think we have probably broken the back of the problem and I hope it does not re-surface.”
“We have been very careful. For example, we have refused to go the way of some countries to try Methadone, which is a substitute for heroin. But from what we have heard, Naltrexone is not a substitute. It suppresses the addiction and we have heard that some 70% success rate has been achieved in keeping heroin addicts off the habit for more than a year. We will have to study this carefully before considering whether we should embark on that track. He asked about the electronic monitoring system. I am glad to report this has proved successful. We had some 2,200 drug supervisees and the DRCs placed them on electronic monitoring. Feedback was very good. They were staying indoors and the supervision that they were staying indoors during curfew hours was effective. The feedback from the families was good. Initially, there was some apprehension on the part of the addicts and families. This has been overcome. And because of our success with trying the electronic monitoring on drug addicts, we are now convinced that the time has come for us to extend it to other areas, particularly, we will try them on criminal law supervisees. The benefit is that we can release them earlier than planned. They can be re-united with their families and get back to a job and be useful citizens once again. So we will try the EMS on criminal law supervisees. Mr Ho Peng Kee asked about VAOs. Yes, we need more because drug addicts need counselling, and this kind of counselling is not easy. You need a dedicated volunteer. So SANA, which has done a very good job in marshalling volunteers for fighting the drug menace, is launching a full-scale effort to recruit additional volunteers and I hope they will meet with good response.”
“Sir, our drug problem is under control. But that is not to say that the problem has disappeared. I think Members will know that there is so much money to be gained from drug trafficking and that we are close to the Golden Triangle drug-producing area that just to stay on top of the problem and to keep it under control is a major achievement. Whereas in other countries, they have practically thrown up their hands and in some places, worse, drug traffickers are holding the government to blackmail. Our problem really is that although we have contained the number of new drug addicts or fresh drug addicts, it is the problem of the hardcore drug addicts that causes us concern - the fourth time and more DRC admissions. They constitute some 39% of our DRC population. So Mr Zulkifli is quite correct that we should be concerned about this. Members will recall that last year or the year before, I informed the House that one of the reasons why hardcore addicts did not mind coming back to the DRCs was many of them thought it was a soft option that they came back to the DRCs. In fact, they were well-fed and probably gathered new information on sources and supply. So we changed the regime and the Director of Prisons introduced a tough regime in DRCs for hardcore addicts. It is no longer comfortable or they should not think that it will be comfortable. And hardcore addicts who began to vandalise or damage property were even caned. I agree with Mr Zulkifli. He asked us to consider all new ways. We will do so. He mentioned that in the United States there was a programme where medication had been successfully used. I believe he is referring to a drug called Naltrexone. Yes, we will get information on this and see whether the information is persuasive enough for us to try.”
“So this will be the next phase of the public warning education system. 3.15 pm I also agree with him on the need to teach our children the basic understanding of the public warning system. For this purpose, the Civil Defence has produced cassettes which will be distributed to schools in due course which will contain the different types of siren sounds. Over the years in future, the public warning system will be activated on occasions like nation wide civil defence exercises, maybe on Civil Defence Day and so on. Eventually, the public warning system will become part and parcel of civil defence way of life. Mr Choo Wee Khiang: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.”
“Sir, in reply to Mr Choo Wee Khiang, it is true that last year our sole objective was to make sure that the public warning system and the sirens located in various places, in fact, work and to make technical testings, the acoustics, the range and so on. So all that was done last year with regard to public understanding and cooperation was that they not be alarmed, that this was only a test, and to inform them that the PWS has been put in place. Last year, we did not require the public to do anything else. But the next stage, from now onwards, is to inform the public and bring about an awareness of how the public warning system will be used, can be used, in an emergency to make the people aware of the various sounds and what each sound of the siren can mean, like warning, a particular kind of sound; all clear, another particular kind of sound; and, third, important message. In peace-time, we envisage, of course, that the third sound which I mentioned, important message, is likely to be the one most resorted to. You can imagine that if we have a major peace-time incident of the scale, say, what happened in the World Trade Centre in New York or if we have an industrial accident in another particular place, it is possible for us to activate the sirens in that part of Singapore only and sound the important message siren sound, in which case the public can tune in to SBC where they can hear repeated messages as to what to do. The message may be on SBC, "Please avoid this area. Keep the streets clear because civil defence and ambulances may want to go to this particular locality." And other kinds of messages can be given. It can be very useful to allay people's fears, to give clear directions to the people in the case of such an emergency.”
“Mr Choo Wee Khiang raised the point concerning juvenile crime and so on. To some extent, I have already touched on this in my first reply to Dr Arthur Beng. He specifically asked about information on the programme of visit to the prisons. I had given some information when I replied to Dr Arthur Beng. If I may quickly recapitulate, these are kids who are dabbling in secret society activities or on the verge. They already have one foot in secret society activities or about to get a foot in the activities. The CID gathers them. They take them on a trip to the prisons and they see how life inside the prison is. They see how big, grown-up adults, thuggish looking with tattoos, are in prison, docile, well-behaved. They are shown videos. They are even shown videos on caning. And as I mentioned earlier, I can assure the House that it is a sobering experience. Every one of them who had been interviewed vowed to the Police that they would never want to get involved with secret society activities. To-day, every one of the 420-odd youths who have been taken on this visit to the prisons has not resurfaced on CID's records.”
“They might have been disciplined or some other reason for having a grievance. As you know, we already had one arrest and therefore I cannot go into the details of the case because the sentencing, I believe, has not taken place. What measures will be taken? Firstly, the Police will have more patrols. Secondly, the Police will work out with the schools some arrangements for intelligence gathering and information and also basic dos and don'ts. Thirdly, the schools will also be advised how they can set up their own crime prevention measures. Because many of our schools have quite wide parameters, fencing, and at night they are not guarded. But during the day-time, certain systems can be put in place and, in fact, I think the schools can have their own school watch scheme or equivalent of our neighbourhood watch group, to be alert to potential trouble makers. Mr Heng Chiang Meng asked about accidents on expressways. The Police are aware of this. And, as he knows, in November 1991, the Police had a blitz and cracked down on several workshops which were engaged in touting. This problem that he mentioned is related to touting because it is very difficult to prove that the accident was actually staged. So we have to crack down on illegal touting. I have taken his point as to whether we should amend the law. I am of the view that the present laws, both in the Penal Code and the Road Traffic Act, provide a sufficiently wide and deterrent range of penalties for the offences of reckless or dangerous driving and I do not think it is necessary to amend this. After the November 1991 blitz, the assessment of the Police is that the situation is under control. But should we ever need to, then I will take up the suggestion and look into the need for amending the laws.”
“They worked with the food operators. They persuaded people to park in the proper places. They identified another area which most of the patrons did know about where they could park their cars. And therefore the problem was considerably eased. Similarly, often you find residents phoning up the Police to say, "Look, the kids are making a lot of noise and nuisance at the void deck." But the kids are not really committing any offence. They want to play ball and so on. This is typical of the situation where the Police are now being asked to come in at the community level. So taking this new pro-active role, the Police will have to work with the grassroots organisation and say, "Look, can we not find some other avenue for these kids to play basketball or soccer?" It is far better that they play basketball or soccer than gather in some nook and corner smoking away, plotting to shoplift or some other offence. I would say that the Police's review of NPP has shown two things: one, that they are on the right track; two, that they must further build on their links with the community. And for this, they have to be even more pro-active than they have been in the past. Mr Kenneth Chen asked about arson in schools. Yes, there has been an increase in arson. In 1991, there were seven cases. In 1992, 14 cases and this year, to-date, two cases. We take a very serious view of this for the reasons which Mr Kenneth Chen has stated that (a) any kind of arson or attempted arson is treated seriously, and (b) you can have lots of damage to property and, worse still, danger to life and limb. The intelligence of the Police as a result of investigations is that there is no organised gang behind it. Mainly, the culprits are students or ex-students who have some grudge or other against the school.”
“But if I may indicate, one of the major findings of the review is that the Police must press on with community-oriented policing not only with serious crimes, like murder, rape, burglaries, robberies, but the review has shown that the Police must also emphasise on a pro-active approach in dealing with the community, even for lesser offences. Sometimes it may not even be offences. It may be incidents or misunderstandings or incidents which have a high level of irritation or inconvenience factor where they look at the neighbourhood police post for solution. Strictly speaking, perhaps it is not a law and order function. Strictly speaking, an offence may not have been committed by anybody. But as the interaction between the Police and the community improves, there is going to be greater reliance on the policemen, greater calls made to NPP, because they have got to know him as a member of the community. They do not know who else can immediately come to the situation. So they call. The Police have decided that for the years to come, they must build on these links they have established with the community, with the grassroots organisations, and one of the ways is that they will press on with the pro-active approach, even in non-serious offence related issues. To give you an example which the Commissioner of Police has given me, there was, for example, a problem of illegal parking complaints at the Kopi Tiam food centre in Upper Thomson Road. Many residents phoned up complaining about the illegal parking. The Police could, of course, have resorted to just one method, just issue summonses and tickets and do nothing else. But what the Police did was to look at the problem in macro. They went down to the ground level. They worked with the residents. They talked to the residents.”
“Can we activate the NWGs either to be on the look-out before we catch the culprit, or to be able to give information which is helpful for the police, and whether we can involve the Neighbourhood Watch Groups in crime prevention activities organised in the vicinity? We are also considering ways and means of giving recognition to the more outstanding and more active NWGs. Mr Zulkifli asked about the review of the Neighbourhood Police Posts and the community-oriented policing. As I have mentioned last year, the Police were conducting a review. This review has been completed. Why did the Police conduct this review? It was because we felt that the single major force which has contributed to the success of the Police in the past decade has been the community-oriented policing and the Neighbourhood Police Post system. It has brought about a quantum change in the image of the Police and in the level of cooperation and rapport between the community and the public. The fact that for the past three years we have had a high level of assistance and support from the public in the solution of crimes speaks for itself. The figure is more than 30% of major crimes have been solved or arrests made either with the cooperation or the assistance of the public. It is a very high figure which very few countries can boast of. 3.00 pm The Police's thinking is that they are on the right track with the NPP system and the community-oriented policing. But how can they improve on it further? And that was the thrust of the review. In the months ahead, the Police will, of course, publicise the various aspects of the review.”
“Sir, can I take up the points which were made just before we adjourned for tea break? Mr Kenneth Chen asked about Neighbourhood Watch Groups (NWGs) and, in particular, whether we will encourage formation of NWGs in the new estates, and so on. Neighbourhood Watch Groups, if I recall, are informal gatherings on a small basis - two, three, or, maybe, four households. No major responsibilities are expected of them but simple tasks of keeping an eye on each other, eg, each other's kids when adults are away, and so on. It is formed jointly by the Residents' Committees or private estates residents' associations and the Police. Most of them are in the HDB housing estates. There are some 97,000 Neighbourhood Watch Groups, the vast majority of about 89,000 would be in the HDB housing estates and the others in private estates. As I said, they are informal with very minimum duties. If we have more onerous functions entrusted on them, there may be reluctance for people to form NWGs. But having said that, I take Mr Kenneth Chen's point that we must not let these groups, or the institution of NWG, fall into disuse or atrophy. So the Police, in fact, are reviewing the concept of the NWGs to see what new directions, new impetus we can give, for example, whether the Neighbourhood Watch Groups can be involved in certain specific activities. For example, can we activate the NWGs in a particular area, say, in a block of flats, or in a neighbourhood, where some incident has occurred, maybe, a snatch theft, burglary or housebreaking?”
“What is the difficulty in Mr Ling, as an MP and as a lawyer, to tell the lady: "Look, this is important. It must be investigated. Make a report immediately to the Police."”
“Let me first say that, as far as I know, all Government Departments reply to appeals raised by MPs on behalf of their constituents. I know that this is the case. But it must be an appeal raised by the MP on behalf of his constituent. If it is not his constituent, the Government Department will not reply. As far as I know, that is the procedure, whether it is a PAP MP or an Opposition MP. A lady says her modesty has been outraged. I would think the first thing she should do is to go to a Police Station. If such a lady came to me, my advice would be that she immediately goes to the NPP and makes a report. It goes without saying. But for me, as an MP, to write to the Police to say so and so has made a report, how can the Police investigate? The Police must get the first information report from the individual concerned. It is not the MP whose modesty has been outraged. Mr Ling is a lawyer. Surely, he knows that that must be the advice, whether as an MP or as a lawyer, he must give the girl.”
“Can I ask whether the lady who came to see Mr Ling has filed a Police report?”
“I can well understand that if it is a problem with any department you can take all the time in the world to reply. But in a case where information has been given about the commission of a crime, I would have thought that time is of the essence, and that the Police would carry out the investigation straightaway, rather than direct her to go back and complain to her own MP. To be fair to the officer concerned, I did write a letter to him saying that I was a bit surprised with the sort of reply from him. Later on, he replied to me that the matter had been investigated into. I want an assurance from the Minister that complaints of this nature should be investigated straightaway rather than directing her to go back to her own MP to lodge a complaint again.”
“But all Immigration Departments the world over must take into account one overriding consideration, ie, the national interest. We would like ideally to let in anybody who likes to come to Singapore. Mind you, there is no end to the number of people who want to come to Singapore. So it must be the national interest and specifically we must be sure that the person who is going to be given permanent residence does not become a charge on the state. That is critical. Even advanced countries, if you read the prospectus, and I have just looked at the New Zealand prospectus on immigration, it says: Entry of spouses is not automatic. If that is so for New Zealand, what more for a small little place like Singapore? So the Immigration Department has liberalised and will be reasonable, but there is a certain bottom line. I agree that those who have connections with Singapore in terms of relatives, wives or husbands, we should be reasonable and exercise flexibility. I think in most cases we have done so. But if there are any specific cases where Members feel that they deserve consideration, by all means, raise them with me or my Parliamentary Secretary and we will have a look at them. Mr Ling How Doong (Bukit Gombak): Sir, could I get a clarification from the Minister? In one of my meet-the-people sessions, I had a girl coming to me to complain that her modesty had been outraged while working. Accordingly, I wrote a complaint to the Police Division concerned. I was surprised when I received a reply about one or two weeks later. The Commander stated that since the girl was not from my constituency, would I ask her to go to her constituency and lodge a complaint through that MP. In fact, I was really shocked with this sort of reply.”
“Of course, we must be prepared to look at each of these cases. As I said, the difference between the husband and wife of the Singapore citizen is that for the foreign husband, we require that he must be able to work in Singapore. This is not a discriminatory move against women. There are good reasons because we want to ensure that they and their families will not become a burden to the state. Why do we say that? This is because the Immigration Department has provided me with figures that in the majority of cases where the Singapore wife applies for her foreign husband, the majority of the wives who were sponsoring are not employed, whereas the majority of Singaporean men, who apply for the foreign wives, are employed. So it is reasonable for the Immigration Department to be satisfied that the foreign husband will be able to look after his wife and the family that they are about to raise. Therefore, the Immigration Department will want evidence that he has a job or that he can get a job. If he has not got a job, and I give her and Dr Arthur Beng the assurance, the Immigration Department will always give ample time for the person to be in Singapore to obtain a job. I think the Immigration Department has never failed to be reasonable on that score. Specific cases were cited by Dr Soin. Of course, not knowing the details, and one must know the details because there are many sides to a case where, after you investigate, you will find that it takes on a different complexion. If she can let me have the specifics of these cases, I will be prepared to look into them. But let me put a caveat. The Immigration Department in Singapore is not devoid of compassion, nor am I, as a Minister, devoid of compassion.”
“As for highrise fires, I would say the measures we have taken are, first, preventive, ie, education on preventive measures, enforcement of strict fire safety codes, which our Fire Safety Bureau does. Secondly, we must have regular fire drills and exercises. The Civil Defence does this because one of our major preoccupations is that of a highrise fire. We do not just treat highrise fire as a fire incident. We even consider it as a potential major disaster. Therefore, for very big scale fires, the Civil Defence will work with other agencies like MINDEF, Police, PUB, etc. For this, as he knows, from time to time, we conduct major drills, as we had in Raffles City. Finally, we will have to also beef up the law. Sometime this year we will introduce a Fire Safety Bill to toughen the Civil Defence's ability to deal with fire hazards, particularly in highrise situations where fire safety managers may have to be appointed. Also, managements which lock up fire exits, we should have the power to deal with them quite severely. Finally, the immigration question by Dr Arthur Beng and Dr Soin. Let me put matters in context. First, we have in fact liberalised our immigration policies in recent years. Although you can cite specific cases, the fact is that the majority of cases are approved. Of applications for male spouses of Singapore citizens, nearly 70% of cases are approved. Contrary to what Dr Soin says, it is not that Immigration is unable to handle cases and the majority land up at the doors of Members of Parliament. Members of Parliament who handle meet-the-people session cases will tell you that they have been receiving in recent years more and more approvals than in previous years. It is the difficult cases, the gray cases, that land up in the MPs' offices.”
“2.00 pm Dr Arthur Beng asked about civil defence. Yes, we have had the volunteer scheme for some 10 years. We have some thousands of volunteers in the various constituencies. These volunteers can play a very useful role in peace-time disasters. We do not need examples of the World Trade Centre in New York or the Amsterdam jumbo jet crash to remind ourselves. We have our own local examples such as the Hotel New World disaster, the Ginza Plaza explosion and the Chinatown collapse of a shophouse. In the last two incidents, in fact, Civil Defence volunteers were the first to turn up at the scene to help, ie, to give first aid, to ferry the victims to hospital and so on. What we have to do is that we cannot be satisfied just having 38,000 or 40,000 Civil Defence volunteers. It is important to give a new impetus to the Civil Defence volunteer scheme because we do not live in a place like Japan or elsewhere where you have hurricanes and other natural calamities. So we may not have every year some catastrophes happening, and I hope we do not have. How do we maintain the interest of volunteers? How do we recruit new volunteers? So there must be challenges and new directions for the CD volunteer scheme. To achieve this, we are thinking of a system where existing volunteers who are a cut above the others can be given more responsibilities, more duties and more leadership roles. This is being worked out by the Civil Defence. Also, for volunteers, we are looking at people with specialist skills, like doctors, nurses and chemical engineers. I say chemical engineers in case of a hazardous material incident. We need such people. So we must also look at volunteers with specialist skills.”
“And arising from it, my colleague set up a standing committee to monitor the situation and to indicate Police's concern. One of the Police representatives on the Committee would be the Director of CID himself. Mr Ho Peng Kee asked whether we are successful and what measures we are taking to recruit good quality men into the Police. I think he knows that I have emphasised the importance of the Police having high-calibre officers. We have, as he knows, pegged salaries at 10% above the market rate. We have introduced schemes to promote the better officers. We have also introduced opportunities for educational advancement for the non-graduate officers. This year, what we are doing is to make a special targeted drive at 'A' level and polytechnic graduates. We think that this is an area which has been sufficiently tapped and we try to zero in and get as many of them as possible. The Police will therefore visit polytechnics and other post-secondary institutes. I agree with Mr Ho Peng Kee that we should try to better utilise NS men, the reservists and the Volunteer Special Constabulary (VSC). Indeed, I have discussed with the Commissioner of Police and he and his senior management will see how, in the review of the neighbourhood policing, we can integrate the reservists, the national servicemen and the Volunteer Special Constabulary. In this regard, I want to say that the Volunteer Special Constabulary must be congratulated for the role that they have been performing. These are men and women from various walks of life who, after their normal vocation during the day, spend time performing regular Police duties alongside the regular Police officers. The VSC launched a recruitment drive which was successful, but we need more men and women to come forward and volunteer in the VSC.”
“The Police deal with crimes on a daily basis and it is a matter of concern when the Commissioner of Police writes to me and tells me that he and his senior officers are very concerned that the extent of violence on TV is excessive. He tells me that constant bombarding of violence on our viewers, especially our youths, would desensitize people to violence. There is a danger, in their view, of raising a new generation which believes that violent behaviour is an acceptable way of dealing with others. If I may just mention, although there is no empirical evidence, the Police did an informal survey amongst 50 young violent crime and secret society offenders and the majority told them that they loved to watch violent films and got a thrill out of watching other people being beaten up or being killed. This is very worrying. The Police are particularly concerned with locally-produced TV series and here I will quote: 'It is bad enough for violence to be featured in foreign settings of acquired programmes shown by SBC. However, it is much worse when the setting is local and the characters are portrayed by well-known local artistes. With Singapore's current low crime rate, such violent scenes are patently exaggerated but may appear realistic to the young and impressionable. Local artistes may also be role models for the young. We must not under estimate the adverse influence these local artistes have over the young when they portray violence or evil.' I am glad to say that I raised it with my colleague, the Minister for Information and the Arts. We both viewed extracts from some of the series, particularly the film cited by the Police, "Angel of Vengeance". We both felt that it was excessive and we had a good meeting with SBC.”
“It has been about nine or 10 months. Outraging of modesty. As the figures announced by the Police showed, there has been an increase in outraging of modesty cases. I would like to make two points. First, the Police believe that more women are now prepared to come forward and report, which is a good sign because unless a report is made, we will never be able to catch the perpetrators. The second point to bear in mind when viewing these statistics is that the Police make a distinction between outraging of modesty and aggravated outraging of modesty. Of course, any form of outraging of modesty must be treated seriously. But it covers a wide spectrum of circumstances. But aggravated outraging of modesty, where a victim is put in fear of bodily harm or where it is in a lift, we pay special attention to such cases. And I am glad to say that the figure for aggravated outraging of modesty has been on the decline. In fact, 80% of outraging of modesty cases are not aggravated outraging of modesty. He raised the question of violence on TV. I think he knows from what has been said in the press that the Minister for Information and the Arts and I have expressed our concern. He wants to know what is Police's views. The Commissioner of Police gave me his own views and they are concerned about the extent of violence on TV. Why are they concerned? I would put it this way. We have a situation now where major crime rates have been coming down - murder, robbery, housebreaking. But we see, as Dr Arthur Beng mentioned, a phenomenon where people seem to resort to violence for various minor incidents, which is worrying.”
“In fact, recently, they arrested one individual and charged him in court and he was responsible for 40 such offences. But we must also launch, and we will, through the Police, crime prevention talks to educate our senior citizens on basic dos and dont's when they are out of their houses so that they will not be easy victims. We have also produced a tape which the Police will distribute to various senior citizens' committees. Youths and violence. Although the percentage of youths who are engaged in gang activities and secret societies is small, I agree that this is a matter of concern. In fact, the number has increased recently. What are the measures which we will take? First, of course, the soft approach would be to go to schools, talk to the schools, show videos of the evils of secret societies and so on. That is already being done. We will also enlist the help of principals, calling up kids who are troublesome. The CID, in fact, also brings in to the CID such teenage kids who have proved problematic, probably on the verge of joining secret societies, and counsel and warn them in front of their parents. For the really troublesome youngsters who are dabbling in and experimenting with gang and secret society activities, I mentioned last year that we were launching what I have called a visit to prisons programme. The CID rounds up these kids and takes them on a visit to the prisons. It is a very sobering experience, let me assure you. I am told by the Director of CID that teenagers taken on this conducted tour to the prisons have told the CID that they were really sobered by the experience. And what is interesting is that none of the 400 or so teenagers who have been taken on this visit to the prisons has surfaced on CID records since then.”
“Sir, let me respond to the various points in the order in which they were made. First, on Police and crime; next, on civil defence; and, finally, on immigration. Dr Arthur Beng talked about various incidents and crimes involving violence. I agree with him that this is the position taken by the Police and the Ministry of Home Affairs, that we should not tolerate resort to violence, whether it be road bullies, violence against the elderly or violence by teenagers. It goes without saying that we are a very small, compact, society, densely populated. Whether at work or at recreation, we have to interact with other Singaporeans at very close quarters. We are bound to have irritations or misunderstandings from time to time. But we must evolve in a way where we handle problems and frictions without resort to violence. So where people resort to violence, other than for self-defence or unless there are other valid exceptions, we must come down very hard on them. That is why we have taken a very tough view, for example, on road bullies and the problem has diminished. He mentioned the problem of violence and intimidation by moneylenders and people hired by moneylenders. I think he knows that we have introduced measures in the form of amendments to the Moneylenders Act which will enhance penalties for offences committed by moneylenders as well as people employed by them to commit harassment and intimidation. That Bill will come up for Second Reading very soon. Violence against the elderly, yes, the extent of robberies against elderly people who are, of course, easy victims, has been increasing. They are not the work of organised gangs. In fact, the Police believe that they are the work of individual perpetrators.”
“Some law firms may obtain consultancy services, for example, at a nominal fee of only about $100 to study the computerisation requirements. So I am confident that as we progress and law firms find it indispensable, even the smaller law firms will take advantage of these incentives, like consultancy and so on, and get on to the system. As for productivity, I have no doubt that it aids productivity, but it is too early for me to give any precise figures in this area.”
“My overall assessment of the introduction of LawNet is that it has started the legal profession and the legal community on a direction which will revolutionise the practice of law and the way in which law firms deal with law- related agencies through hook-up via computerisation. By now I think more than half of the practising lawyers are in law firms which are subscribing to LawNet, and the number of law firms signing on, I believe, is increasing. I understand that almost all the major law firms are subscribing to LawNet. It is mainly the smaller one-man or two-men law firms which have not subscribed to LawNet. I expect that with the services which will be added on to LawNet in the coming years, lawyers will find that it is really an indispensable part of their law firm management to be hooked up to LawNet. On the question of smaller firms, in fact, I recall suggesting to both the Attorney-General and the Law Society that some steps should be taken to promote computerisation of smaller law firms. I understand the Law Society enlisted the help of NCB to develop a generic specification of software for smaller firms. In fact, at the launch of the LawNet services by the Chief Justice last year, this software was commissioned. Also, the Law Society, I understand, had negotiated with finance companies to provide loans to finance the computerisation of law firms. Indeed, the NCB and, I think, EDB, administer a programme called the Small Enterprises Computerisation Programme to assist small enterprises in their computerisation efforts, and some of the smaller law firms would be eligible. Lawyers, in fact, have been taking advantage of this programme.”
“Or, is it streamlining the Judiciary with enough judges who are competent, able and to have a case management system that is efficient to dispose of the cases, whether they be commercial cases, civil cases, or criminal cases? I am sure the Chief Justice and Judiciary at some time will consider the establishment of a Commercial Court or other specialised courts which have been suggested from time to time, like a family court, and so on. But the present approach is to provide a solution in providing sufficient judges who have the experience and knowledge to deal with commercial cases. We have, in fact, adopted many of the special procedures applicable to the Commercial Court in UK. Also, the Registrar in assigning cases does take into account the competence and knowledge of various judges in a particular area and, in fact, to some degree, there is informal specialisation already practised. I think we should let the Judiciary settle down with the reforms that they have introduced. I think they have worked well. But we should not adopt the idea of a specialised court for the sake of adopting a specialised court. I understand the points made by Mr Heng Chiang Meng. I think we should observe and see how specialised courts in other countries have functioned, and only if we are satisfied that it is absolutely necessary to establish such courts, should we do so. Dr Arthur Beng Kian Lam: Sir, I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply and congratulate him and the Judiciary on the success of the reforms. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $28,237,540 for Head E ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $18,419,700 for Head E ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head B -”