Seah Kian Peng
Singapore
“I thank the Senior Minister of State for his reply. Just a few supplementary questions. Given the decline in volume and given that I can understand SingPost having their challenges, how does the Ministry ensure that there is no degradation of services that are provided by SingPost?”
“Yet, violence, domination, pain, harm and abuse also occur within the walls of a family. We need to be vigilant and sensitive in our approach. Hard rules and automatic application of these rules are a poor response to the challenges that we face today.”
“Both parents and schools have a role to play in shaping our children in the way they should go and I agree with Mr Don Wee that it is important for families to have open conversations about these matters.”
“Just a quick supplementary question for the Senior Minister of State. First, I must say I am surprised but happy that the number of cases has gone down. Having said that, we need to also pay attention to the number of unreported cases. Personally, I am sure we have heard from many residents who come to us for these cases.”
“Second, we propose to put in place new processes to prevent the misuse of the MPA by parents who have abandoned, abused or neglected their children and did not fulfil their parental duties. In so doing, we also protect and spare their children from unnecessary distress.”
“The way we feed ourselves will not be the same. The way we live and the way we work will also be different – telemedicine, work from home, online learning and the need for insurance. But there are other things which will remain the same – resilience, unity, and a single-minded commitment to our joint future.”
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“Many colleagues have raised issues related to financial resilience and financial indicators. I want to talk about the other half of the equation – social resilience and social indicators. Sir, I would like to ask the Ministers to consider, jointly, producing a comprehensive annual social report card for the people on behalf of the whole Government. This is a quick way for Singaporeans to have a feel of how the Government is doing. This report can either state and grade all the key programmes and policies that have been implemented by various Ministries and the Government, or it can simply summarise, identify and review key efforts, policies, programmes and initiatives, assess its broad impacts and then define what challenges lie ahead. Also, for this social report card to gain more traction, I would like to propose that it can be opened to the public, to solicit feedback from those who have used the public services for their grading of the Government's performance. In other words, citizens can churn out their report card to grade the Ministries and the Government's performance. Sir, this is not just a one-way communication from the Government to the people, but a form of public accountability tool, to draw public attention to the quality and impact of Government policies implemented by various Ministries. The NTUC has such a social report card. We found it to be useful to be accountable to our members, so I hope the Minister can give this some consideration.”
“Sir, more immediately, I would like to get the Minister's support of all Government buildings to set their temperature controls at 24 degrees Celsius or higher. I would like the Minister and other political leaders to set an example by not wearing jackets to meetings – including to Parliament. Sir, air-conditioners generate hot air. Do you think that the NEA can think of ways to harness the heat energy from this air in some way? Maybe laundromats from the same building. Sir, these are small steps. We can and I think we ought to take them today.”
“Sir, I would like to focus my cut on air-conditioning. Last year, I pointed out a general need to be greener as a Government, and I made some suggestions. This year, I want to make one specific suggestion which can be very easily implemented. I would like to propose that we legislate the setting of air-conditioning in all public buildings at 24 degrees Celsius. I will explain why. This is because I want policymakers on energy to take the same approach as their counterparts in water – husband supply carefully, and control demand assidiously. Sir, with the Marina Barrage, we have taken a big step forward towards greater self-sufficiency. But there is another project, which to me is more important but has gone relatively unnoticed. This is the Deep Tunnel Sewerage project. With this seven billion dollar project, we are able to reclaim much of our used water from 2008. We have in effect closed the water loop – to ensure that we recycle as much water as we possibly can. In water, we control demand and we recycle the expand supply. For electricity, one quick way to control demand is to enforce the NEA recommendation of 24 degrees Celsius for air-conditioning setting. Many public buildings - shopping centres, offices and pubs - are set at artic temperatures. So are our offices. We should make it a law to turn all air-conditioning in public and commercial buildings to 24 degrees Celsius. There can be pro- visions in the law for exemptions for those buildings which needs to be colder. Yes, I know too that enforceability can be an issue. But for those of us who remember that section 377A debate will know that some laws are not made, or kept, to be strictly enforced. They are a symbol to show what Singapore stands for.”
“If a loan is within a certain sector that has reached the ceiling for that portfolio, then, the bank may not extend additional loans in that sector. But other banks may be underweighted in that sector and portfolio and, therefore, may be prepared to grant loans for that particular sector. So SPRING does this facilitation. SPRING also, as Minister of State Mr Lee Yi Shyan explained, provides assistance in the application process by tutoring and helping the companies to fill up the forms and put up its best case for the companies. So, we do not have a specific target but, clearly, the objective for SPRING is to facilitate and, I think, the senior management and the officers down the line, know their roles. As for the cost of living in Singapore, I think this is a very complicated subject. I understand Mercer monitors this and does this assessment but, perhaps, it is targeted at expatriates living in Singapore. And in recent years, of course, the index has gone up because of cost of rental. But, as you know, this is just a cyclical phenomenon. I believe, some years ago, we were ranked probably number 30-something in the Mercer's survey. Many agencies in Government watch this carefully. And we want to make sure that, for Singapore to succeed as a global city, we have to have an attractive environment but at the same time, we should not be expensive environment.”
“Sir, with respect to the various financing schemes, I would like to ask whether SPRING is measured by how much it lends or how much is left of the total amount set aside for the various schemes. Likewise, what about the time taken to process the applications? I think these benchmarks are important. These KPIs are important because I believe that it will set the right framework which our public officers would embrace, adopt and, more importantly, ensure that the intended objectives of these various financial schemes are met. I would also like to ask the Minister on the issue of cost of living and cost of doing business. Annually, there is a Cost of Living survey done by Mercer. It ranked Singapore as the 13th most expensive city in the world for 2008. In fact, it got worse, we were 14th and now, 13th. I would like to ask if the Ministry should set a target for us to get out of this top 20 most expensive cities survey by a certain timeline? I think this is important for businesses and all Singaporeans. Mr Lim Hng Kiang: Mr Chairman, let me assure the House that SPRING's role in facilitating credit applications is, as I have mentioned, they will take all efforts to make sure that viable and deserving businesses have access to the credit. The way they go about it is to work closely with the companies and the participating financial institutions. We are tracking the status. SPRING follows up when an applicant is not able to get approval from the bank, so that they try and understand from the credit officer, reasons for the rejection. SPRING also facilitates the company to redirect the application to other banks. Sometimes, the bank does not grant the loan because banks adopt a portfolio approach towards bank loans.”
“SPRING can consider offering cash grants of, say, $10,000 over the next two years to help SMEs pay for their company accounts to be brought up to date. It will also help to lower borrowing costs and these data can be captured in a SME-type credit bureau to spur competition to lend among financial institutions. I see this as being similar to the sort of credit bureau being used by credit card companies now. Fourth, rental deposits for investors. EDB/SPRING can assist to put up a 50%-75% share of banker's guarantee to landlords, as a means to co-fund investors or businesses trying to expand or consolidate their operations under one roof. This can be limited to a cap of, say, two months and on a gradually reducing scale over, say, three years, starting from 75% in Year 1 down to 50% in Year 3. Some potential tenants who are looking at leasing generally do not want their cashflow tied up via rental deposits. They may also have problems coming up with banker's guarantee in these times, especially SMEs who are starting up or expanding their businesses. Finally, could the Government consider buying off some of the assets of banks? These are not bad debts but those on the margins. Perhaps the Government can buy over these assets on the condition that the banks will make the resulting capital available for renewed lending. Instead of waiting for deterioration on the loans portfolio, it is better for the buyout of such marginal assets when the banking system is still robust. The buyout is a concrete step to break the impasse especially for banks which are now forced to withdraw commitments or do not renew maturing loans. Sir, in this current crisis, it is time we looked for unconventional and new methods for the future.”
“Sir, I have been speaking with many SMEs and others in the corporate sector. On the various financing schemes, my friends in the SMEs, they are either not aware of them or they insist that it is just as difficult to get loans. So, I ask the Minister to step up efforts to raise the level of awareness among SMEs of the various help schemes offered by the Government and to make the process as simple as possible. Sir, I have five other suggestions for the Minister to consider. First, Government rental rebates. The Government has given landlords some rebates on their rents. My question is whether these savings are passed on to the businesses who lease these properties? One way to ensure more landlords do so is to allow those who pass the rebates on to tenants to claim 110%-125% of the amount rebated to tenants against the property tax to be paid. In this way, landlords gain a tax benefit against their property tax while tenants benefit directly. Most landlords will then want to give the rebate to tenants. The scheme is easy to implement, highly accountable and will add to the cashflow of both tenants and developers. Second, JTC recently announced that it would allow 50% of space in end-user factories to be sub-leased out to third parties. And for the balance 50%, they are imposing a levy. JTC should relax these rules and allow as much sub-leasing as tenants want and suspend the levy. SMEs need cashflow, and if they can get this by sub-leasing surplus space for short periods, then I see this as being a good thing overall. It will also help to lower business costs. Third, many SMEs are having difficulties producing up-to-date accounts to substantiate their loan applications.”
“So we have to measure the success of this measure by how much is being lent and the speed of the process. Sir, I have covered a lot of ground in this speech and this is because I felt the earth shifted beneath our feet this past year, much the same way it shifted after 9-11. We need a new orientation and a new philosophy in public life, and I have spoken on how we can do this. I would like to end with an observation on our unprecedented move to dip into our reserves for close to $5 billion. The Prime Minister has said this is not a quick fix solution and in fact, there is no quick fix solution. The deeper recognition is that there is only so much we can do in and for Singapore. I hope the measures we have introduced in this Budget will be able to see us through and overcome this crisis. But what if it is not? Then we must try again and we should not be afraid of dipping into our reserves a second time to ensure we give ourselves a lifeline. We need to buy time as we wait for the rest of the world to recover. If we can afford it, and for the right reasons, let us by all means do so. Sir, I support the Budget. ADJOURNMENT OF DEBATE Resolved, That the debate be now adjourned. – [Mr Tharman Shanmugaratnam].”
“These savings must be shared with the various stakeholders, including staff. Sir, in response to Mr Low Thia Kiang's earlier enquiry, this is precisely what NTUC FairPrice is doing. With or without Government incentives, FairPrice has been employing a largely local workforce – deliberately. We have done it for the last 36 years. Currently, 95% of our staff are locals, even though our quota is 30%, and come as a cost to us. Likewise, even before the Budget was announced, we had already announced that we will not be retrenching staff. We will be recruiting staff and we are upgrading our existing ones. With Jobs Credit, we are going to do even more for all our stakeholders from our staff to our business partners to the public and, certainly, to the poor and needy. My call to all companies is that management should lead by example. Any wage cuts must start with that of the top management and it certainly has to be a progressive cut. Low wage earners and, certainly, PMETs are all the most vulnerable in this climate as their family members may be affected by the downturn, and companies have a moral responsibility to help their workers in this time of need. The Government has made many significant and magnanimous moves to offer underwriting, to mitigate financial risks of banks and to support trade financing. But on the ground, the desired outcomes have not been fully achieved in helping SMEs with their cashflows. It is the usual "devil in the details" difficulties in implementation. We have a great and laudable idea. What we need is to deliver it. We do not want cases of approvals of these credit lines to come a day too late for businesses or that businesses just give up trying to apply for them.”
“Rather, we should do it because we should have a systematic approach to improving ourselves whilst keeping an eye on our own national values. On the other front, we have, in 2008, also become the world's 13th most expensive city, based on Mercer's 2008 Cost of Living survey. We should aim to be as far down this list as possible – perhaps strive to be cheaper than Beijing and New York, which ranked 20th and 22nd spots respectively. We ought definitely to be out of the top 20 cities in this list. But I still cannot take in the fact that we are more expensive than New York, so I hope the Prime Minister can set a target for Singapore to get out of this list of top 20 most expensive cities by 2015. Of course, the earlier the better. Sir, again, such rankings are compiled on a range of factors and even as we strive to be cost-competitive, we ought to ask ourselves if we are providing good value for money. If we are, then we can rest easy, no matter what place we are on the scale. Sir, I would like to end my speech by commenting on three specific points of the Budget. We must ensure that savings must be shared with and passed on to tenants by property owners. Transport companies have already said that they would pass these benefits on to taxi drivers. And I have read of small businesses writing in to their landlords asking for reductions on their rentals. We must continue this public awareness campaign, put a bit of pressure to ensure that these savings go downstream. As a labour MP working in an NTUC social enterprise, there are a few home facts that I must outline. Every business, big or small, will all benefit from this scheme which recognises and rewards all those firms who have been employing a largely local workforce.”
“Sir, I urge us to return to the basics which matter most – our spiritual relationships, our family, our friends. To this end, the Government can help in creating strong and resilient families. Sir, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has said that in difficult times, we could, and indeed should, turn to our families. For Singapore, this is not just a societal nicety but the bastion of our public policy planning. Family is the backbone of everything, especially when the chips are down. So my point today is to ask the Government what it is doing to make our families more resilient. I will speak more about this in my cut on MCYS. Sir, my last point is also about "whole of Government" approaches and the kinds of goals we can aim for, if we all pull together in the same direction. I shall speak about one ranking that we want to get in, and another that we want to get out of. The first is a proposal to the Prime Minister that he sets a target for Singapore to become one of the top most liveable cities in the world by 2020. Based on worldwide rankings, according to Mercer's 2008 Quality of Living survey, Zurich came in first, and it was followed by Vienna and Geneva, then Vancouver and Auckland. Singapore did improve from 34th spot to 32nd spot last year. As expected, one of our strongest points was in personal safety. We scored 120.2 compared to Karachi's 25.3. Sir, the rankings are based on a wide list of factors – economic environment, socio-cultural environment and health and sanitation, a whole host of factors. To improve our scores on so many fronts, we need to have an integrated approach. We should not do it for the sake of climbing up the rankings.”
“I want to ask our young men and women to take a moment and consider their true vocation. The public service is hiring aggressively and the temptation may be to apply just because it is easy pickings. But we ought to ask the brightest and the best in the private sector to consider coming into the public service as a true vocation, not just an easy option during the recession. Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman who writes for the New York Times recently observed that "the vast riches achieved by those who managed other people's money have had a corrupting effect on our society as a whole." He asked, "How much has our nation's future been damaged by the magnetic pull of quick personal wealth, which for years has drawn many of our best and brightest young people into investment banking at the expense of science, public service and just about everything else?" More important, the enormous amount of money has "undermined our sense of reality and degraded our judgment." Sir, now that we have seen through the false illusion of big money and the collective feet of clay in the financial sector, we ought to ask the brightest and the best in Singapore to consider public service for their careers. Public service has its own rewards. The pay is competitive but there are so many other dimensions to be considered – the sense of mission, the difference you make in the lives of people, the exposure you will receive to the leaders of the country. All these cannot be expected in the private sector. My second point – wealth comes in different forms. Many of us have seen residents who have lost their jobs or money to bad investments. No one has been spared. There are those who wear this loss lightly, and others for whom it has cost their lives.”
“We act the best we can, but we know that there is a random element over which we have no control and, most times, no knowledge. But this is the same with the practice of medicine. Doctors look at a patient, and sometimes, they are healed, sometimes not. And a few of these times, doctors cannot make the precise casual link. They do not know what happened. This does not stop them from saving lives and, more importantly, it does not stop them from trying. Sir, we ought to keep on trying – to try and look at people as people, and not a set of problems. We ought to look at people, even when they are invisible, to seek them out and to make their lives better. Sir, all this is the demand-side of the "whole of Government" approach. Now let me say a little about the supply side – that is, the role of public service, and the people who enter into it. Sir, in Budget 2009, there is something for everyone, every business. I would like to take a step back and speak about the impact of the financial fallout. Sir, these hedge fund managers, financial wizards played the system to their advantage, fleecing those who know less than them. There is corruption, rot and moral decay over the last decade that was disguised successfully by high dining, public proclamations to personal honour and honesty. Of course, this does not happen just in the United States. It happens everywhere that money shines. It has happened in Singapore over the last 10 years. In the past, a career in the civil service was an honour and a privilege. Today, I hope and I believe this remains true but perhaps to a lesser extent. Sir, I urge a return to reality with three simple points. First, the allure of public service.”
“Rather, it gives them a feel for those people who have no voice in forum letters, who cannot get on the phone to talk to officers at different agencies, who do not even know where to start to get back on their feet. If they take the time, they might have met a lady from my Meet-the-People Sessions. She has entered the histories of the MPS log books in my ward since the time of former MP, Mr Goh Choon Kang, some 12 years ago. I must admit that her personality is such that she is not quite easy to deal with and this makes it worse. She is a divorced mother of three, and she has a host of problems. I have written to four or five different agencies. She was asked to show documents time and again, sometimes even before she has received those documents. While one department is processing the document, the next is stymied. But she needs the process to move because she needs a roof over her head. The good news is that this 12-year-old case is seeing light now. They will also meet some invisible people – those that I call unseen residents who do not make it to my MPS. Like one 62-year-old man whom I met when I visited his three-room flat in one of my block visits. He is a diabetic and he recently had his leg amputated. In his 60s, he has a relatively young wife and three young children. His flat was bare, not very clean, and he was clearly at the end of his tether. "Why did you not ask for help?" I asked him. He did not reply. Sitting in his wheelchair, he was ready to sink into his usual days of invisibility. Sir, Government, even at its best, is a stochastic process. We cannot determine the outcome of our best intentions and our most determined efforts.”
“With more voices, more views to take into consideration, and more perspectives, we need Government agencies and officials to adopt a similarly open-minded attitude in working with other units within the Government. An integrated approach is certainly a better way to tackle complex problems. The civil service stays lean and efficient while treating people who need help as individuals, not as cogs in the system. This is an unpopular route because it reeks of ad hoc arrangements and unique solutions. It is far more efficient to fit people into sets and precedents, and deal with them quickly and clinically. But, as an MP, I can tell you that this is what reality is. Problems come in a lump, and it is sometimes not possible to solve one bit of the puzzle without dealing with the rest. How then to resolve this tension between a systematic approach and a messy, ad hoc one? How to meet our demands for both high accountability and a holistic approach? For one, I suggest that we make it a requirement for all senior and middle level civil servants to work the ground. They need to spend some compulsory hours at CDCs, VWOs, even Meet-the-People Sessions (MPS) to better understand and appreciate ground issues. Nothing like seeing, listening and feeling the ground. This will impact the formulation of sensitive policies, to be sensitive to real needs, rather than statistical progress. Once officials start understanding the ground, they will appreciate that solving problems in a holistic manner does not mean creating an additional "coordinating layer" that oversees existing efforts.”
“Sir, I would like to congratulate the Government on this year's Budget. It reflects a Government which thinks of itself as an organic entity, rather than an aggregate of different departments. This, I believe, is rightly called the "whole of Government" approach, the philosophy now underlying the Australian public service. This "whole of Government" thinking refers to public service agencies working across functional boundaries to achieve common goals. In short, it gives an integrated Government response to particular issues. This approach was in fact first taken in the late 1990s, when Britain was facing a host of "wicked" problems". This term described problems which were intractable and did not fall into neat categories. In response, an integrated approach was needed – in which the whole Government was thought, or hoped, to be greater than its parts. In Singapore's case, this approach has been the default mode of operations. We needed to be greater than the sum of our parts as a matter of national survival. But today, with more regulatory bodies, with newer statutory boards, with ever-increasing complexities in society, we need to remind ourselves to take this approach to problems which seem increasingly intractable. I urge the public service to adopt more of this approach because there are both practical reasons and reasons of principle for Singapore to do so. For one, it is a matter of customer service. Citizens now are demanding that their needs be met in a seamless manner, and the public service should work to the needs of the people, rather than the other way around. In principle, this squares with Singapore's vision of a participative citizenry.”
“Sir, I thank the Minister for his answers. I have the following supplementary questions. First, he mentioned that about $80 million was approved. I want to know how much this constitutes as a percentage of the total amount that was applied for. My second supplementary question concerns the process by which businesses need to submit their applications. I hope it can be further simplified and that businesses do not need to submit very voluminous type of applications and very complicated business plans to support their applications. Related to this, I would also like to ask what is the average time taken to evaluate and process these applications, because time is of the essence for these credit-starved businesses, and we certainly do not want a case that when approval is given, it is a day late for the companies. My last supplementary question is to ask the Minister whether he is aware that some financial institutions have not renewed the credit facility on maturity. While this may not be seen as a cut back of facilities, I think the impact can be quite significant. I would like the Minister's response on this.”
“Sir, given the current economic climate and from the cases that I see at my Meet-the-People sessions, it seems to suggest to me that lower-price flats are in demand. So my question to the Minister is whether indeed this is the focus and the priority of HDB in its building programme going forward. And I would like to suggest, at least from my experience, to focus more on building smaller flats where the price consideration is a major factor.”
“Sir, I have just one supplementary question. Concerning the level of personal unsecured credit loans, can the Minister tell us how much is this amount and how this compares against other countries, in terms of the debt accumulated by individuals here? Mr Tharman Shanmugaratnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, if I were to exclude housing loans, car loans and share financing, all of which are essentially secured. If you look at credit card loans, the loans have grown by about $840 million as of September 2008, year-on-year, in other words, compared to September 2007. That is a fairly significant year-on-year growth, about 18% or 19%. As I mentioned, the amounts rolled over for more than a month have actually remained constant though, at about 15%, and the charge-off rates, which are essentially bad loans, have also remained relatively constant at 3%-4%. I think we should watch this carefully because the 18%-19% growth in credit cards, even in line with past economic growth, is something which we should watch carefully. MAS is monitoring this but, as of now, there is no serious cause for concern, and we will stay in close touch with the banks. CREDIT LINES FOR BUSINESSES (Measures to ensure continuity) 2. Er Lee Bee Wah asked the Senior Minister following the turmoil in the financial market (a) how is the Government monitoring the market liquidity environment to ensure that banks continue to lend money to businesses; and (b) whether the Government is aware of banks either withdrawing or reducing the credit lines for building contractors and their suppliers.”
“One supplementary question, Sir. I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State whether he agrees that the current formula is certainly deficient in that it does not address the intended objective of smoothening the impact of volatility of the electricity tariffs. Can this revision that he is looking at be brought forward, instead of middle of next year, to a much earlier date? A simple suggestion: as it is now, it is done every quarterly. One easy way is to just change it to monthly revisions. This will clearly ensure that we do not get to see some of these hefty hikes that we have seen of late.”
“It also helps build social networks among members and closer links between the co-operative and the broader community. When the International Co-operatives Alliance held its global general assembly here in Singapore in October last year, Minister Vivian Balakrishnan at the Opening Ceremony said: "Co-operatives have a distinct and valuable role to play in helping create a strong, sustainable, prosperous and inclusive society". The standing of Singapore co-operatives is held in high regard by the co-operative fraternity throughout the world. The social impact created by some of the co-operatives here has brought immense benefits, both economically and socially, to all its members and the community at large. Sir, as we embark on this round of legislative changes, I see it as a step towards the anchoring and strengthening of the role of the co-operative movement in Singapore. Having these measures in place will reinforce corporate governance and accountability. They will certainly improve public confidence towards co-operatives. I hope the Ministry can consider my comments and suggestions. I also ask that the regulators adopt a light approach by extending some time, flexibility and help, if necessary, to co-operatives, especially the smaller ones, to adjust to these new changes. On our part, the Singapore National Co-operatives Federation will do whatever possible within its means to help all co-operatives make these adjustments. Sir, I support the Bill. 4.55 pm”
“But if the consequential amendments to the Banking Act (Cap 19) and Finance Companies Act (Cap 108) are passed, would that not mean that credit co-operatives would now be required to obtain the necessary banking licences to operate branches, as required under section 12 of the Banking Act (Cap 19)? Also, with the passing of the consequential amendments to these two Acts, the restriction to operate branches and ATMs will certainly create an uneven playing field for the credit co-operatives. Fourth, on the restriction on advertising, the Act is silent on whether credit co-operatives will be allowed to advertise their products and services. Given that the Act is silent, does it mean that credit co-operatives will be allowed to engage in all forms of advertising? If restrictions are subsequently placed to restrict them from advertising, again it creates an uneven playing field for the credit co-operatives. And if we raise the bar on the regulation of credit co-operatives to standards that are on par with other financial institutions, what is the rationale for imposing the additional, more stringent membership criteria? Can the Minister explain? Jeffrey Sachs, a renowned development economist, had in his book, Common Wealth – Economics for a Crowded Planet, asserted that market mechanisms and government policies alone cannot sustain economic growth. And that public, private and the not-for-profit sectors need to work co-operatively to address social concerns and achieve sustainable outcomes. Co-operatives are indeed well placed to play a key role in achieving sustainable outcomes for the local and broader community. Co-operatives give members a sense of ownership in the organisation while serving their own economic and other needs.”
“With the onset of new legislation, section 76 of the Banking Act and section 53 of the Finance Companies Act will be amended to remove credit co-operatives from being granted exemptions they have been enjoying until now, except that they will not be required to apply for a licence. Bearing in mind that credit co-operatives will be subject to certain restrictions, my question is: would it be fair for them to be subject to the same requirements of other financial institutions when they are not competing on a level playing field? Sir, the key thrust of these changes, as the Minister of State has elaborated, is a tightening of the regulation of credit co-operatives. First, there is the removal from exemptions of sections 73 and 53 of the Banking Act. Can the Minister elaborate on the impact on co-operatives? Second, on the restriction of membership of credit co-operatives, the Act spells out clear and stringent guidelines on the admission criteria of membership for credit co-operatives. This, in effect, puts a cap on the ability of credit co-operatives to grow, let alone sustain their current base. Third, on the restrictions on operating branches and ATMs, the Act is silent on whether credit co-operatives will be allowed to operate branches and ATMs. I understand that the Registrar's approval is required for the setting up of branches and ATMs. I believe that MCYS's rationale is that the recommendation ensures that there is no proliferation of branches and ATMs by credit co-operatives.”
“(3) On section 60, Eligibility for Membership of Committee of Management (CoM) or to be Key Employee of Credit Society, I want to: (i) ask whether there should be a stipulation to restrict either the number of non-members on the Committee, because the Act is silent on this matter. In principle, we support having non-members on the Committee of Management. As it is, NTUC co-operatives are a model where they consciously appoint independent directors to their boards so as to strengthen the boardroom with expertise and experience. On the other side of the coin, it should also be pointed out that we are already seeing the Committee of Management of some school co-operatives, comprising non-members, such as parents, instead of teacher advisers, and student co-operators. Therefore, if left unchecked, it could result in the admission of more of such non-members in the future. (ii) I also appeal for a minimum period of debarment instead of indefinitely for persons convicted of fraud or dishonesty to be eligible to become members of the Committee of Management or Key Employees of the credit society. This appeal is consistent with and in support of the Yellow Ribbon project, that everyone deserves a second chance. The onus will be on the respective board or Committee of Management to conduct their own assessment whether these people should be appointed to their boards or Committee of Management. Next, on section 95, Powers of Minister to make Rules, I would like to seek clarifications on the authority that is vested in SNCF to carry out its responsibilities as both an Apex organisation and a reporting body to the Registrar, ie, specifically, should such an authority be extended to non-affiliates of the Apex organisation?”
“It is meant to assist all co-operatives (including non-affiliates of SNCF) in examining and raising their governance standards. It aims to complement the minimum standards set forth in co-operative legislation. In this regard, I wish to assure my colleague, Mr Sin Boon Ann, that many of the bigger co-operatives, especially those in the NTUC group, all have nomination committees, remuneration committees, on top of Audit Committees. However, Mr Speaker, Sir, I need to emphasise that we must strike a balance between ensuring safeguards and being practical, so that we do not inadvertently render the co-operatives uncompetitive, given the small scale in operations for some of them. This is the approach that is advocated by SNCF. Since early last year, MCYS has engaged SNCF and its affiliates in a few dialogue sessions to obtain our inputs. Some of them have been incorporated in the proposed amendments in this Bill, but some remain unanswered. So I have a few queries and suggestions. (1) On section 9, Registration, I propose that, as part of this process, the applicant should also attach their business plan. This is not to suggest that the regulator must assess the viability of the business plan but rather that the regulator's role is to ensure that such a plan exists and provides some safeguards for members who have invested in the co-operative. (2) On section 16B, Control of Credit Societies, I seek clarifications on: (i) The interpretation of "financial service"; (ii) Whether institutions that are regulated under the Banking and Finance Companies Act are subject to similar requirements; and (iii) The Regulator's benchmark when authorising applications for new financial services.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, thank you, for allowing me to speak on this Bill. First, I need to declare my interest as the Chairman of the Singapore National Co-operatives Federation (SNCF), and I also work for NTUC FairPrice Co-operative Ltd. I applaud the proposed amendments. It has been some 23 years since the Co-operative Societies Act was first passed in 1985. Having these measures in place will reinforce corporate governance and accountability. It would strengthen the co-operative movement and improve public confidence towards co-operatives. Co-operatives are governed by laws. But, day to day, we need a strong culture of self-regulation. SNCF has, in recent years, operated a slew of initiatives to strengthen awareness of corporate governance way before legislation. In 2001, we promoted the idea of co-operative having independent directors. A year later, we renewed our strategic direction. One of the key areas was to promote and enhance Co-operative Governance among co-operatives. In 2004, we launched the Co-operative Governance course, to equip board members and senior managers of co-operatives with a clear understanding of their roles and responsibilities in managing their co-operatives and the key elements of good corporate governance. Some 18 such courses have been conducted, training about 450 co-operative leaders from 53 co-operatives. We continue to collaborate with the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports in carrying out operational audits and follow ups. More importantly, in 2006, we launched the Code of Governance for Co-operatives at the Annual Co-operative Leaders' Conference. The Code encapsulates the best governance practices of the industry and aims to help co-operative boards and management better fulfil their roles.”
“Sir, I agree that, statistically, this is not a very significant number, but for a first-class transport system that we are aspiring to, I think we should strive for zero defect. I hope the MOT will impose that as a KPI.”
“Sir, I understand from a recent press release by MOT that there are about 250 to 300 such incidents per month. My supplementary question is whether MOT considers this to be an acceptable number and, secondly, how we can further reduce the inconvenience to the people who are affected by such system faults?”
“Just a clarification to the Minister regarding car ownership. He mentioned that the Ministry will review the adequacy of the 1.5% car growth policy after three years. My proposal is to reduce it to 1% from next year because over a three-year period, this half a percent reduction means more than 12,000 fewer cars on the roads. That is enough to line up the cars from east to west on the island. Surely, this is something which is worth seriously considering now rather than subject our roads and our motorists to further stress and frustration?”
“Sir, as I do not live in Nassim Hill, neither do I have four cars, I cannot tell you whether this sort of policy will indeed remove the propensity for the super rich to buy new cars. I suspect not. But perhaps it will make a few parents think twice before buying new cars for their young working children, and also make young working adults to pause before taking on a new financial responsibility. We have tried all sorts of half measures, and tinkered here and there. This latest review has shown us what we can do with bold measures. Bottomline is that we want to encourage people to take the BMW option – not to buy more cars but to take the "B" as in Bus, the "M" as in MRT and the "W" as in the Walk option. So, I urge the Minister to take two more – reduce car growth to 1% from next year and to consider my car tax rebate formula. Road Congestion”
“The 3% car growth policy was put in place by the Ministry some time ago – why did we allow car growth to outstrip road growth for so many years leading to the current gridlock? Sir, I know it is more helpful to look forward than back, but perhaps a post- mortem will give us some pointers ahead. Now, for the future. Car growth will, from next year, be reduced to 1.5% from the present 3%. At the same time, road growth is at 0.5% – the Mathematics suggests that somewhere along the line, the numbers will hit a bend and it is a sharp one. Why not take a more drastic measure? First, I think we ought not make a difference over car ownership and usage of cars. We have got the psychology wrong somewhere. We cannot make cars cheaper and 'induce' people to buy. Having bought a car, we make it very expensive to drive and hope motorists do not drive too often. We should not give false hopes to car owners, especially the new and aspiring motorists. So, here is a radical idea. Restrict car growth to 1%. Another radical idea – give the tax rebates fully to households with one car. If there is a second car, no rebates on this car at all. And if there is a third car, levy the tax at 150%, maybe even 200%. I know that this will not be a popular approach, but I believe it is in line with our overall philosophy to tax the rich more, and target subsidies to those who are lower down the income line. When it comes to cars, it makes little sense to speak of the "lower income" or perhaps we can make a difference between a family of four in a four-room flat in Serangoon Avenue 3, driving a humble Suzuki Swift, and a family of four in a bungalow in Nassim Hill, with two BMWs, two Lexus and a Nissan Presage for the driver to ferry the kids to school.”
“Sir, I would like to talk about taxi drivers before moving onto private car ownership. A news report in the Chinese papers recounted how a taxi driver reduced his taxi fare to attract passengers. Others have mentioned that since the fare hike, taxi drivers are now earning less than what they used to. When interviewed, TransCab Operators' Association pointed out that it was illegal to reduce taxi fares by oneself but it was possible for taxi drivers to offer discounts to passengers privately. Eight out of 10 taxi drivers interviewed said that if it was not illegal to reduce the fare, they would do so. I understand that it is in the interest of transparency and simplicity to have a flat fare and a straightforward fare structure. More importantly, we need to abide by the fare meter. I cannot help feeling that taxi drivers are getting the thin end of the stick. With the impending ERP charges, they are going to feel the pinch even more. But all this is anecdotal. So, over the last week, I took a few taxi rides myself and I asked each taxi driver the same question. And I can tell the House that a majority of them expressed the same view that they are worse off. Can the Minister inform the House if there has been any survey done on customer satisfaction and drivers' earnings after the recent round of fare revision? Can we see what the effects are? Sir, on a larger issue, I support the changes announced by the Minister recently, which are comprehensive and which I believe have a good chance of resolving our traffic woes. I would like to make a point about car growth. What went wrong with our car population, which seems to have grown quite uncontrollably?”
“Madam, I want to ask the Parliamentary Secretary one question. He mentioned earlier that the Sports Council will be setting up an NSA Advisory Committee. I hope that, amongst other things, this Advisory Committee will look into my earlier point about the experiences of NSAs who adopt different approaches towards talent development and to make the recommendations accordingly. In the area of track and field, specifically the Singapore Athletic Association (SAA), I know many schools are very active on this front. But somehow, once they finish school, all these talents just seem to drop off from the scene. I want to ask the Parliamentary Secretary if there are some gaps in the development and nurturing of these young local talents by SAA.”
“(2) If the same amount of resources on FSTS had been diverted to develop the local talent pool, do you think Singapore's competitiveness can be raised? In some ways, this is a speculative question but it would be beneficial to study the experience of the NSAs, who have adopted different approaches towards talent development. Indeed, I believe that if adequate and the right resources and attention are poured into the development and nurturing of our young local talent, we do have a realistic chance of winning a gold medal, maybe more at the inaugural Youth Olympic Games when it is held here in two years' time. Madam, I celebrate gold medals as enthusiastically as the next man. But it makes a very great difference whether it is a relatively universal jubilation, like cheering for Manchester United or Arsenal when one of them wins the English Premier League this year, or a peculiar and unique joy of a Singapore victory, like Mardan Mamat winning the Singapore Open two years back or Remy Ong almost winning the World Cup recently. In this crucial difference lies the need for a judicial management of local and foreign talents.”
“Madam, we are all proud when we achieved our best SEA Games result last year, with a total medal haul of 127 - 43 were gold medals. Our athletes, both local and those under the Foreign Sports Talent Scheme (FSTS) deserve a good pat on their backs for their hard work and commitment to attain these results. Something piques my curiosity though - it remains that various National Sports Associations (NSAs) have different takes on FSTS, and consequently have experienced varying degrees of success. Some NSAs did groom local talents to world-class standards, and some justified their reliance on foreign talents to reap results for the sports and our country. For instance, bowling and sailing are dedicated in developing a 100% Singaporean-born talent pipeline. In contrast, NSAs such as table tennis and badminton believe in continuously sourcing for foreign talent – in addition to their younger pool of local talents because of our small population – to help achieve their goals, to inspire and attract more youth to the sports. Swimming seems to be adopting a moderate approach by deploying foreign talent sparingly in the squad. Ask the Singapore Amateur Athletics Association and they will have many interesting experiences to share. I might add that all is not so pleasant. I would like to ask the Minister: (1) Has any assessment been done on the cost-effectiveness of FSTS since its inception, following these recent sporting events on the regional and international levels? In other words, what are the returns on the investment that NSAs or the Sports Council adopt to measure the tangibles and intangibles of this scheme? If an assessment has been done, are the results up to expectation? Can the Ministry share these results?”
“Alternatively, a survey could be done on the spending of PA recipients to find out the base cost, and then the inflation rate of these items and future increases can be tied to this rate. Whatever formula determined by the Ministry as appropriate, I would like for it be reviewed regularly, and for it to be made public.”
“Sir, first, I would like to point out that I am not here to ask for more money. The amount of financial assistance that MCYS has been extending to needy Singaporeans who need help has grown significantly over the years. I would like to thank the Minister for heeding the calls of several Members in this House, myself included, in increasing the Public Assistance (PA) allowance. It is a significant and most welcome increase. Sir, I must say that in my ward, I do not have that many residents on PA. Beyond the allowances they receive, they also get additional help from other sources. Our CCCs and our RCs help too. For the RCs, in particular, they will pay regular visits to them as well and, from time to time, we give them some food provisions. As we know, the criteria for Public Assistance are very stringent. Sir, I am speaking for some 3,000, not a very large number, especially measured against the larger policy issues the Budget addresses. Nonetheless, it is a measure of our society that we spend time and attention to care for the very poor and the most vulnerable, as well as for big businesses and high net worth individuals. Is the increased amount enough? The Minister has said that his officers have conducted an exercise which shows that one can eat very well on a little more than $90 a month. The Ministry has provided to these 3,000-odd PA recipients some very good news recently. It is a result of the review that the Ministry has conducted. As a result, I hope that the Ministry can institute a mechanism where PA allowances are reviewed on a systematic and regular basis. 1.15 pm If the CPI is not a good proxy, perhaps it can be tied to some basket of goods. If food is the main item of expenditure, then it could be tied to that.”
“Sir, I just want to ask the Minister what are the measures that the Ministry would be putting in place to ensure that large scale projects organised by the public sector are eco-friendly. Assoc. Prof. Dr Yaacob Ibrahim: Sir, at the moment, we work with the various agencies. It is not mandatory but what we have done is that we have contacted the various agencies and the NGOs who have been supporting us. As an example, I think about two or three years ago when we had a National Day Parade at the National Stadium then, there were several efforts together by NEA and some VWOs to help encourage the attendees at the National Day Parade to pick up after they have finished the parade. So we will continue to engage the various agencies and work together with them. It is not something which is mandatory but something which we want to encourage as a good practice. We have been in touch with all the other Government agencies and, as and when there is a request, we will continue to work with them, Sir.”
“Such observations are not lost on many of my overseas friends and guests and they are from the cold wintry countries like Sweden and New Zealand. All of them, without fail, tell me that our buildings are too cold. A 2004 study by Cornell University in the US showed that warmer workers worked better. When the temperature was raised from 19 degrees to 25 degrees Celsius, typing errors fell by 44% and the output jumped by 150% - talk about productivity! Our NEA has said that air-conditioners currently account for 40% to 50% of the electricity bills in commercial buildings. If temperature is raised by just 1 degree Celsius, air-conditioning bill comes down by 3%. And what is 3%? A cool $20 million to $26 million a year if all companies did it, enough to more than cover the bills of several fireworks displays. More importantly, it reduces carbon emissions significantly. The BCA says that the ideal temperature should be set at 22.5 to 25 degrees Celsius. Why do they not go at 24 or 25 degrees? Turning down the air-condition is the first and easy step. I hope that the public sector can and should take the lead. Let us start the Cool Singapore Campaign now. Environmental Efficiency”
“In Japan, the land of the suited salary men, a climate change has begun. Every summer, it runs a "Cool Biz" campaign. Everyone who works in an air conditioned office should not have to wear suits and ties, even Ministers. Mr Koizumi, the Japan's Prime Minister at that point in time, took the lead - he wore Hawaiian shirts even in public appearances. The temperatures for their air-conditioners are set at 28 degrees Celsius. This is at least six degrees higher than some office buildings here. Sir, somehow, over the years our office temperatures are so low that we can wear the autumn and the winter collections of many fashion houses here. This is really quite ridiculous. I have seen photographs of our first Cabinet walking from City Hall to Parliament House. None of the Ministers wore a tie. Of course, they were all dressed in white, as a political statement, not as a matter of keeping cool, but, nonetheless, what worked for them could work for us as well. Even in this House, many Members have to put on jackets not because it is a fashion statement, and I must say everyone who had to put on looks good. But, seriously, I believe many of them put on the jackets simply to keep themselves warm. We should all remember that we are part of the tropics and aside from the occasions when we need to be formal, there is no need to wear jackets. The Catholic nuns who work in the tropics, they have different habits which are practical and cool. Surely, we can be more flexible. So why not increase the temperatures so that it is cool enough to work, but warm enough to do without jackets and sweaters. I have been to several offices - public sector and private - and observe many people having to put on jackets, sweaters and even shawls.”
“Sir, I start from a philosophical point of view. In a small, disparate country like ours, there is a softer side to nation-building, a role which mass national celebrations perform - National Day parades, countdown parties, and so on. We do not begrudge the thousands, often millions, spent on them. For example, Minister Mentor himself once pointed out that for the price of a night of fireworks, we could have built a new community centre. But who is to say that the few minutes of fireworks cannot generate as much community spirit and bonding as a community centre? Sir, I support national celebrations, and I want them to go on, but in a different, more thoughtful way. In many major events, there is a lot of wastage and not enough thought is given to being eco-friendly. Take the countdown party at the Esplanade - the many white plastic balloons floating on the bay containing wishes. What is the point of this? Can we not have something which is friendlier to the environment? Why not wishes written on leaves? Why not on pieces of bread? Maybe not, but certainly something more biodegradable than plastic balloons. Of course we cannot eliminate waste totally, but it would be good if such factors come in high on the list of considerations on the organiser's mind. For example, can we have an independent commission to review what is needed to make sure that national celebrations and large scale events follow a certain standard operating procedure that minimises the impact on the environment? Sir, this is a complex task which will likely take some time. I hope the Minister will consider this idea seriously. Let me suggest something on a smaller scale, something we can do immediately. Can we turn down our air-conditioning?”
“Foreign Beggars Er Lee Bee Wah (Ang Mo Kio): Sir, in October 2007, 59% of the 68 beggars caught in Singapore during the year till that time were foreigners and they were subsequently referred to ICA or the Police for repatriation. I would like to ask the Minister: do we ban these repatriated beggars from entering Singapore? It seems that this problem has not been diffused and has, in fact, gotten worse. Our local media reported on a foreign syndicate of beggars who operate in Waterloo Street Temple. This is indeed worrisome if these beggars and illegal immigrants are able to operate so openly in our country. Does it not show the gaps in our security network and the lapses in the work of enforcement agencies? In acting openly, these illegal operators clearly show their blatant disregard for the law enforcement agencies.”
“Sir, this is well and good, and I am sure that there are equally worthwhile projects going on inside. I wonder though, if there is merit in taking a more private sector approach to the management of the billion-dollar Changi Prison complex. This brings me to my third question. Can we privatise Changi Prison? It is not a new idea. America has done it since 1985. Today, there are more than 150 for-profit prisons in 30 American states. In fact, one of them, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) - for those who are interested in - is listed on the New York Stock Exchange. It is a listed company with a unique business proposition, but it is a business all the same. If after 40 years of public housing, we can privatise part of HDB to help other countries with their homes, who is to say that we cannot help other Asian countries run their prisons? Viewed in this light, it is a clear candidate for private sector input. And it is a business that is expanding all the time. In the five years to 2000, the number of prisoners soared more than 50%, from 8,500 to 13,000. The number of arrests made by Police increased by 9.5% from 19,284 in 2004 to a record 21,108 in 2005. And, according to the World Prison Population List of King's College London International Centre for Prison Studies, the prison population rate, per 100,000 of national population, for Singapore, at 350, was the fifth highest in the world. All this points to a growing population in our prisons; and surely an increase in the spending needed. We ought to look at the manner, as well as the quantum, of spending.”
“Sir, I want to talk about funding for prisons. I recognise that the physical security features of Whitley Road detention centre from which Mas Selamat Kastari escaped from is not in the same league as our other prison complexes. And this may be one reason for the unfortunate incident yesterday. Sir, last year, the operating budget of the Prison Service was about $235 million. Our former prison chief pointed out that this still makes it, and I quote, "the cheapest prison system to work in the developed world." There are certainly reasons to smile at this efficient use of resources, but I would like to ask three hard questions. First, can we have more figures about how we compare with the rest of the world? Second, are we funding our prisons adequately, in the light of our ageing population and the forecast of higher crime numbers in the light of the IRs and increased immigration? And third, can we explore creative options in our Prison Service such as best sourcing it to a private contractor? Sir, the first question is relatively simple. I want to know if, man-for-man, we are spending less than other countries, as it seems to be implied by what our former Director of Prisons said. And if so, I would like to ask how we are managing to do so. Are we doing it at the expense of denying comforts to older prisoners, schools for younger prisoners, psychiatric care for the mentally ill and rehabilitation programmes for drug addicts? Do we have a good vocational and rehabilitation programme? Are there international benchmarks that we meet? Sir, I know that prisoners also provide services to private companies to defray the cost of running the prisons. For example, some female inmates work as call centre operators.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, given that the prospect of a US recession is quite high, can I assume that, based on that projection, the worst case scenario is for us to grow by 4% this year?”
“Two supplementary questions. Given that the PA recipients are those that for various reasons are unable to work or cannot work, I would like to ask the Minister whether this review of the PA allowances can be completed earlier. He mentioned that this is due by end of the year. Eleven months from now is rather long, given that some estimates of the CPI for this year could be as high as 6%. My second question is whether the Minister is prepared to consider, going forward, to institute a systemic review of the PA allowances on a regular basis, perhaps devise a formula that takes into account the CPI which I think is a good proxy, and peg the changes to the PA allowances to it accordingly.”
“Yet, I am a Member of Parliament who believes that, as a nation, our families are not ready to have an open acceptance of the gay lifestyle, including same-sex marriages and gay adoption of young children. I believe that these key institutions would be weakened by the repeal of section 377A. This view, like this debate, is a matter of principle, not of numbers. Sir, I support the Bill. 5.28 pm”
“I support all that we can do to enhance protection of the vulnerable in our society. We need to weed out those guilty of such crimes and be hard nosed about it. No compassion required, period. As a society, as leaders, it is time to take a clear stand. We are number one in many areas. Let us strive to be number one in this too. Sir, I made some reference to the normative nature of the law-making process at the start of this speech. With regard to section 377A, I have heard many stories and quotes that Mr Siew Kum Hong has related about homosexuals living in Singapore. It is difficult not to be moved by them. At the same time, I know that his accusations about the tyranny of the majority are false. This matter is one of principle and not of numbers. If we acted with the tyranny of the majority, why do we have the GRC system, where ethnic minorities are protected? Or if we were truly trying to be on the side of numbers, why did we not go along with the Malaysians in 1963 when they asked us to be part of a Malay Malaysia? Or in the case of Myanmar, why do we not side with China or India, and take a completely "hands off approach"? The numbers are certainly there. Or why do we not be like the US or Europe? The number of people may be smaller but the guns are larger. Sir, this is the real slippery slope. If we abdicate debate and discourse for mere accounting, we would not be upholding our role as Members of Parliament. I believe that this debate has given an airing to both sides of the argument. My own view is a simple one. I would be the mother who loves her gay son. I would be the man who loves his gay brother. I would be the first to stand up for a gay man's right to be treated as an equal under the law.”
“They wear T-shirts and slippers. They joke and laugh. Newspaper reporters have asked them what they do. "Eat, gamble" they say. It is a lie, not a white one, but very black indeed. Many go to visit prostitutes. In one island, I am told, there is a place known as the Villa. There, half of them are under 18 years old. For $53, the men get what they are after. Sir, the law will allow us to prosecute paedophiles who have sex with minors overseas. Our officers enforce it, we hope for a deterrent effect, but these two measures cannot solve the problem. Laws rely on the respect of those who naturally want to do the right thing, and fear from those who are tempted to do wrong. Sir, some Singaporean men get calls from pimps, saying that "fresh fish" have arrived. They make bookings for girls. They disappear on weekends. We know this, and we say nothing. "They are there for cheap food, shopping," we say. Sir, they are there for sex, and we know it. I suggest that we take a firm stand against this and speak out each time we hear this, or hear of it. If we know of friends who do this, we should counsel them. If we hear of strangers who do this, we should report them. If we are told off-colour jokes, we do not laugh. And if we hear the sorry stories of child prostitution, we do not cry. Instead, we take action - each one of us, and each time we encounter this evil. There are already many civic groups who are working in this area. We should contact all of them and let them know of this new law. In addition, we should have a hotline for whistle blowing. Let anyone who knows of such stories ring us. If the trail of money stops, I believe the abuse will too. Sir, I have focused my speech on the changes relating to section 376.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, like Mr Charles Chong, I am delighted to speak after the Prime Minister has spoken, and I am even happier to be the 21st and last person to speak on this Bill. Sir, many of the Members who have spoken on the Penal Code reforms have been lawyers - 11 to be precise. I am just an ordinary man - a father, a manager and an employee with the labour movement. I have an ordinary man's belief that laws reflect the moral norms of society. At the same time, I believe that, at times, we have to be ahead of the curve. That is to say we are legislating what we believe to be morally right, not merely what we believe to be the views of the majority. We make laws to reflect what we feel to be right, not just what is the case. Sir, let me say that I will first be speaking about our laws against child prostitution and, later, about section 377A. For too long, we have taken a neutral, even, I am ashamed to say, indulgent view of the situation towards prostitution in general and child prostitution in particular. I am sure that, among the male MPs at least, we hear of some people who make regular trips to Batam, and it may not be for golf. When they speak of these trips, it is at times accompanied by raucous laughter. We have stood by and said nothing. In this House, at this time, we stand up and be counted. Passing the law is an easy thing. We press a button, make a speech, if we feel like it, and then we walk out and have a cup of coffee or tea. But, Sir, this law is not like that. This law is about deterring Singapore paedophiles who now can get virgins for $1,000 when they take a boat ride to some offshore islands. Each weekend, you can see ferry loads. I have taken a ride, and seen these men. Even if it is early in the day, some are clearly drinking already.”