Toh See Kiat
Singapore
“Sir, on the issue of transparency, would it not be good for the banks, firstly, to make it very prominent by displaying perhaps on their premises the rules that they have in relation to not just small savers but all savers?”
“By the way, even though I do disagree somewhat with the Minister's reply earlier in this House that IRCs cannot be regulated, I think more education can be given to get parents to know that uncontrolled Internet use by their children can lead to problems and they must actually not use the excuse that they know nothing about Internet and i…”
“I was visiting China some years back and there was this official who actually talked to me about Sentosa's attractions and our tourist attractions and he said to me, "In Singapore, you have nothing to show tourists. And yet you have 7 million of them every year. In China, we have got so much to show them.”
“We are not going to review this part of the policy because the security and financial risks of Internet payments are still not yet fully understood.”
“Will the Ministry of Home Affairs consider making it an obligation for the Internet Service Providers to have some special service which would allow parents to block IRC services, if necessary? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Ultimately, it is a matter of education. We will monitor the situation.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, for the ISPs, because they have this added responsibility of making sure that the users of Internet use it responsibly, would that not be seen as facilitating the offences if they do not block such behaviour? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: I think the IRC facilitates many activities.”
The complete record
Every one of 178 lines we hold for Toh See Kiat, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 1 of 4.
“Sir, on the issue of transparency, would it not be good for the banks, firstly, to make it very prominent by displaying perhaps on their premises the rules that they have in relation to not just small savers but all savers? Secondly, there is a code of banking practice which governs the relationship of banks with the customers but, to my knowledge, it is not even displayed or made transparent and available to the consumer. Would it not be timely to ask the banks to do that, Sir? BG Lee Hsien Loong: We can consider that. I am sure CASE will add their voice to this. It is really not just a matter of what you paste on your doors, but the whole approach towards the way you do business.”
“" Or he says, "Yes, I will sell you the car, but I am not giving you my special offer prices." And this would mean that ultimately the consumer says, "I have no choice." You say I have a choice, but it is a Hobson's choice, it is not a real choice. So it would be good. And I think, having sat on the VQS Committee, argued all these points, I have come to the conclusion that actually, as many consumers do realise, the VQS is a good system and it should be kept. But I think we need to address some of these issues so that ultimately the consumer, for example, knows that he really has a choice. I personally feel, of course, that if you ban dealers from bidding, it is not an answer. Because then we will create actually a new class of professionals called car brokers, car dealers, COE brokers, who will then do what the dealers are doing. Because ultimately some consumers do not have the time, they do want to pay somebody to do it for them. I would like to urge the Government when it considers the review of the open bidding system that we build in some measures to make sure that frenzied bidding, cornering of the market and this whole idea that consumers cannot bid because they have no information. all these will be taken care of, so that ultimately, even if there is a bid, the consumers know that it is a fair and level playing field. As for suggestions like scaling and pay-as-you-bid system, I would ask the Government to even consider if these things can be worked into the open bidding system.”
“Sir, I sat on the VQS Review Committee as a member of the GPC for Communications. Unavoidable, of course, I brought in my experiences as a consumer advocate, being the President of the Consumers' Association of Singapore. The VQS is not a consumer issue directly. It is a mechanism to allocate scarce resources. It is a mechanism whereby the Government decides that the growth of vehicles has got to be controlled, and this control mechanism means that the quota is fixed as to who will get cars from this quota. It is what the VQS is all about. In the process of buying a car which is, of course, a consumer issue, the consumer wants to be able to buy with a free choice. In other words, in an ideal system he should be able to get a COE and then go round to shop for his car. And if he leaves the COE with the dealer that does not satisfy his needs after maybe one, two bids, and one month or two months, he can take back the COE and go to another organisation that deals with a different car. The problem that the consumer faces is that at this moment, he feels that the system is stacked too much against him, and too much for the dealer. For example, COE, even though it can be bidded in the name of an individual, IC number is given, but the c/o address is always the dealer's address. So the COE goes to the dealer and stays with him. And that means that the dealer has got quite a few COEs in his command. He can command and manipulate prices, and he can hold on to the COE, and tell the consumer, "Look, you go to another dealer, you are not going to get another car, because I have the COE." Another situation is where the consumer says, "I will get the COE myself." And he brings this COE to the dealer, and the dealer says, "Hey, you got your own COE, I am not going to sell you a car.”
“By the way, even though I do disagree somewhat with the Minister's reply earlier in this House that IRCs cannot be regulated, I think more education can be given to get parents to know that uncontrolled Internet use by their children can lead to problems and they must actually not use the excuse that they know nothing about Internet and ignore what the children do. I can also suggest that perhaps we have this special service which currently is only operated by SingNet but we can open it, maybe even on a mandatory basis, to all the Internet Service Providers, and this Family Safe Internet Service would not only screen off pornography for children but also other things like Internet Relay Chat facilities that parents can switch off if they do not consider it wholesome for their children. Like all technology, the Internet can be used for good as well as for bad. We need to avoid what Dr Lee Tsao Yuan has called "kiasu" regulation yesterday in this House.”
“Sir, since I entered this House in 1997, I have been calling for the establishment of a Ministry to deal with the multifarious aspects of information technology policy planning and development in Singapore. Recently I was fortified in my stand by the discovery that the outgoing Chief Executive of the National Computer Board, Mr Stephen Yeo, shared my view. I was equally encouraged by Mrs Yu-Foo's call in this House on Monday for a Ministry of IT Power. I am thus no longer a lone voice in the wilderness. To top it all, the Minister for Finance's reply to her was the most encouraging piece of news I have had this year. Yes, even though the Government is not convinced that a Ministry for IT (by whatever name it is called) is needed, it has acknowledged that some streamlining of the regulatory agencies is possible. The difficulties of pigeon-holing different aspects of IT policy to different agencies and Ministries is exemplified by my recent call in this House for the regulation of Internet Relay Chat facilities. I had been alarmed to hear that two girls had been raped and/or molested. I want to move on to say that when I asked the question on the Internet Relay Chat facilities, I had asked for clarification from at least two Ministries. Actually I had even thought of filing a Question for the third Ministry because this had to do with communication infrastructure. I do remember that last year when the APEC Ministers discussed electronic commerce, we were represented by Mr Mah Bow Tan, who is the Minister for Communications, even though electronic commerce is more an issue which is governed by the Ministry of Trade and Industry and the National Computer Board which is an agency under MTI.”
“Sir, I wish to speak on this National Red Lion head that we have. This Red Lion icon that we have is a National Day symbol and I wish to ask for it to be made as a national symbol protected by the law, just as the State crest or the State flag and so on. One of the reasons for this is that the icon has become a very familiar sight among the public in Singapore and it has in fact become associated in a large part with what we do whenever we have a national event. It is in fact even more well known than the Merlion icon, which in the early days had been used to represent Singapore. It was, as I said yesterday in this House, a very recent invention and, in fact, very much related to the tourism industry, so that now it is more an icon of Singapore tourism than an icon of nation itself. We are a lion city and the Red Lion head has done well. It has done so well, in fact, that CASE actually went after one unscrupulous renovation contractor. We found that their letterhead had the Red Lion icon and a logo that looks somewhat like the HDB logo. And they were telling people in that estate and several estates in Singapore that they were implying that they were HDB renovation contractors engaged by HDB to do an upgrading programme, and they said, "Please sign up by today, or else you are forever out of the upgrading programme." We realise that a lot of people were taken in because when they saw the Red Lion icon and thought it was really a Government agency, they therefore had to respond. So this is one of the reasons why I think a national icon like this should be protected. And I think it has done a very good job in identifying Singapore and Singapore's national events.”
“I was visiting China some years back and there was this official who actually talked to me about Sentosa's attractions and our tourist attractions and he said to me, "In Singapore, you have nothing to show tourists. And yet you have 7 million of them every year. In China, we have got so much to show them. I think we can beat you one day." But that was, in a sense, a backhand compliment, Sir. We have done very well to attract tourists but we must not rest on our laurels. Tourism is our life-line; we must develop Sentosa and our other attractions tastefully and sensitively.”
“If there is no money, I think this is why the Ministry must put some grants into it. The third principle, Sir, is that we must not turn people off. Visitors who come, especially the locals, they come for something that they want to see and enjoy and they go away with this idea that something is wrong, because it is sloppy, because it is tacky, because it is not quite tasteful. For example, I took my visitors to Sentosa. Usually when I go to Sentosa it is because I bring visitors from overseas. I went to this Merlion that they spent lots of money on. Ran up right to the top, one tiny hole, and a long queue of people waiting to see through that tiny hole. And then right at the bottom of it, there is this video show on the "Legend of the Merlion". Sir, I was amazed at the total unconvincing nature of this legend which is, of course, totally fictional, because the Merlion was invented by the Tourist Promotion Board some years ago. Another example of sloppiness was in the sign. I saw this sign that says "To the Causeway". Of course, they were referring to the fake tower bridge that links the mainland to Sentosa. It looks like a tower bridge; it is beautiful. But it is not a causeway because from what I know, a causeway is built from the bottom of the sea up, and that is a bridge. I think we should stay away from this "instant noodle" sort of syndrome - something picked up, put water, and viola, tourists would come. For example, the VolcanoLand is an instant noodle volcano. We do not have volcanoes in Singapore. How sad! So let us build a VolcanoLand. There is, of course, as I mentioned, the Merlion legend. If we do not have a real legend, Sir, I think we should stay away from creating totally unimaginative ones.”
“Sir, Mr Inderjit Singh earlier said that in seven years there have been no changes to Sentosa. I beg to disagree. There have been changes. Unfortunately, some of the changes have been for the worse. Sir, I think tourism is a major foreign exchange earner in Singapore, and tourism has declined largely because of the economic crisis that has impacted Asia. It is all the more important for us now to concentrate on efforts to make sure that our tourist attractions are indeed drawing money for us. Sentosa is the gem in the crown jewels of Singapore, and we must pay some attention to it. In developing the attractions in Singapore, especially Sentosa, I think there are certain principles that I would like to urge the Government to consider. First, there is a need to keep astride of international developments and trends in this area, and especially of the needs of tourists and locals, what they want to see in tourist attractions. Mr Inderjit Singh has mentioned, for example, that we have already lost out to Hong Kong in getting Disneyland which is a real big money spinner. The second principle is that we must continually update what has become obsolete, even if they had been grand and great attractions in the past. For example, in a recent visit to Sentosa - I do visit Sentosa too - the Asian Village, for example, is dead. Practically everything is closed. And a few pitiful rides that are still functioning have got very few customers. I think some of these things need to be torn down and rebuilt. An hon. Member: No money.”
“They are inexperienced, less educated and perhaps more gullible. They are relatively hard up financially and easily enticed by high salaries and they are unable to afford lawyers to advise them or to sue if things go wrong. Besides false job advertisements, such bucket shops also resort to lies, misleading information, hard sell and intense psychological pressure to get the job-seekers - who have entered the hyena dens - to throw in their life savings in tens of thousands of dollars. They say this is to gain "trading experience" for the new jobs. One of the key lines given by these shops to wary investors, in fact, is something that capitalises on the known fact that the MAS is a strict regulator of the financial and investment industry. They claim that they are not rogues, because if they were, the MAS would have stopped their activities. A very simple argument. Sir, the Consumers' Association, CASE, and the Commercial Affairs Department are at their wits' end to stop such unfair traders. CASE has also been pushing for a Fair Trading Act, or at least some kind of law governing representations and sales promotion tactics, to stop these scoundrels from operating untouched by any law. Such traders give us a bad name and make a mockery of our systems of law and justice. An Act can be drafted generally enough not to cover specific commodities or investment schemes. It can also give due force of law to industry self-regulating Codes like the Singapore Code of Advertising Practice. In this way, they will be wide enough to cover the types of scams like those mentioned by Mr Sin Boon Ann yesterday in this House (the ostrich and ostrich egg schemes), timeshare schemes and soft commodity futures. The Government has said it will introduce laws soon.”
“In many cases, this RRP makes it easier for customers to know when his local retailer is profiteering and selling way above the market price. But RRP enforced by pain of severe penalties does not benefit the consumer. There are many business cartels in Singapore. The Price Control Act, even if the Minister is willing to apply it, does not apply to these trades. Sir, I would plead with the Minister to make RPM an illegal practice, because consumers are suffering under prices fixed in this rigid way and it should not be allowed. Sir, may I move on to my next cut? Twice in the last two years, in response to queries which I raised, the Ministry of Finance has assured the House that they are looking into laws to regulate the unscrupulous practices of soft commodity trading firms and timeshare companies. This is why I actually filed this cut under the Ministry of Finance earlier, but it appears that you, Sir, prefer that I say my piece to the Minister for Trade and Industry. Perhaps it was due to the impression that I will be talking about shops selling buckets. The regulation of bucket shops or soft commodity trading firms is something that is necessary. [Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair] 5.15 pm These firms are called "bucket shops" primarily because of the suspicion that they take money from the public without making trades, and actually keeping the money in their tills and churn it round, paying different parties that they pick at random out of their till or "bucket". Many of these bucket shops attract new investments by advertising for housewives, elderly retirees, students and foreign workers to apply for high paying part time jobs which require no experience and training. All these groups are vulnerable in different ways.”
“What happened was that a certain manufacturer sets the price of the product they made and by binding retailers to this RRP. Essentially, in this practice, retailers who dare to sell below the recommended price, even if they are able to because they have lower costs than other retailers, such retailers would be penalised. The penalty may be damages for a breach of contract or the supplier flexes his economic muscle by killing off the retailer's business, such as by stopping all supplies to this brave retailer. Since economic death is worse than damages, most of these rebellious retailers are not taken to court. They simply capitulate. In the famous case, the retailer was too big to kill, so the matter ended up in court. Unfortunately, for the supplier in question, the court found no binding contract in existence, and so the supplier lost. In the midst of all the media hype, it escaped public notice that the supplier would actually have won if the retailer had signed a contract. This practice of fixing prices, called Resale Price Maintenance (RPM), is illegal in the UK and several other common law jurisdictions, but is well and alive and totally legal in Singapore. Sir, after this famous case, the local supermarket scene descended into a "price war", with different supermarkets competing to sell the same goods at as low a price as they could. Ultimately, it was the consumer who benefited. It is common knowledge that there are several cartels in Singapore which practise RPM. Some of them in fact argue that because of free competition, the prices are exactly the same. These are the petrol companies. How peculiar! Sir, I am not against manufacturers and wholesalers recommending a retail price.”
“Sir, first, I would like to follow up on Dr Lily Neo's point about toy safety standards. In the early 70s, the Consumers Association of Singapore actually created a toys safety standards authority, which looked into issues of toy safety and toxins in toys and so on. We had to close that work because there were no funds forthcoming. And it is indeed something that we hope can change if the Ministry, for example, could grant us more money on this project. We do have a toy and product testing service currently and, again, that is very much hampered by the lack of funds. Nonetheless, we would move on that. Sir, I would want to mention another issue which relates to consumer protection. In a Question I filed in the House for Oral Answer in November 1997, I asked the Minister whether there are plans to curb the price fixing practices of monopolies and cartels. As there was no time for an oral reply, the Minister, in his written reply, said that the Singapore economy is an open one and price fixing behaviour by cartels is best prevented by open competition in the market place. Where essentials like rice and pork are concerned, the Minister said that the Price Control Act empowers his Ministry to set prices, but added that keen competition has made this unnecessary because the Government can stay out of the market if the prices are set by market. Sir, I take this opportunity to raise this issue again as the problem of anti-competitive practices has not been resolved satisfactorily. Anti-competitive practices were in fact the subject of a recent furore over telecommunication charges. I think last year, in a well-publicised court, there was another form of anti-competitive practice called the "recommended retail price" (RRP) practice.”
“Whether we should cut down a big contract into smaller portions for local contractors to bite on is something we have to look at very carefully. There may not be economies of scale to bring a big project down to smaller projects. On carparks, Dr Teo asked for reduction in fees. HDB has not increased HDB and URA carpark fees since 1994 except for two areas, Kampong Glam and another area. And the reason is that HDB and URA carpark fees are still very low compared to private estates. We need to increase carpark fees in the Kampong Glam area because there was a long queue for limited carparks in that area. In any case, URA fees there are much lower than the private carpark operators' fees. On Mr Sinnakaruppan's point of licensing of property managers, legislation may not be the best way but I do encourage management corporations to seek out competent and professional managing agents. I understand that APFM has been formed and we encourage MCs to approach APFM to propose some managing agents for management corporations. I want to thank Dr Toh for his suggestion on national parks. That was a tragic accident. We have taken note of what had happened and we will make sure that these things do not happen again, but there is no guarantee.”
“I would like to refer to the painful recent episode in which two young girls died in the Pulau Ubin incident. I would like to ask for the introduction of measures to ensure safe use of our national parks. We cannot prevent all accidents but we owe it to our people to ensure that no lives are wasted when unschooled city-folks try to live in the unfamiliar wild. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development (Mr Koo Tsai Kee): Sir, on behalf of the Minister, I would like to thank all the speakers for their valuable inputs. You can be assured that the Minister and I will factor your inputs into future policy considerations. On Town Councils, I wish to thank Mr Rai. Town Councils are really new animals. They are about 10 years old. Over time, I am sure Town Councils will take on more responsibilities. On the building of a civil society, Town Councils are working with the CDCs to help mould the community together. So I am sure the aspect of community bonding will progress along quite fine. On the improvement of private estates, I want to assure the House that the Government has not forgotten its promise made in 1997. But we are in the middle of a recession and we have to keep these items in view for a little longer. But it will be done, and it will be done well. On the allocation of Government contracts, contrary to what Mr Chuang has said, local contractors have done very well. In fact, I have looked at the figures. Local contractors have won something like 60% or 70% of local contracts in terms of dollars and in the HDB design-and-build contracts, 23 out of 25 design-and-build contracts were awarded to local contractors.”
“We are not going to review this part of the policy because the security and financial risks of Internet payments are still not yet fully understood. But we are monitoring it closely, particularly international developments in this area, to make sure that if other countries have fresh developments in Internet commerce, our laws stay up to date.”
“Water is a good example where inter-dependence is our preferred choice but, if necessary, we will not be left helpless. Finally, the question from Dr Toh See Kiat on competition for Nets and also Internet banking. As part of the liberalisation of our domestic banking market, MAS is studying foreign banks' access to front and back end infrastructure necessary to support multi-purpose stored value cards being issued by foreign institutions. We are studying this and when we announce our overall liberalisation package, this will be one of the items. Foreign banks are already allowed to compete freely in the Internet banking. We have no restrictions on foreign banks setting up websites to market their services and Citibank and StanChart, for example, among others, have their own websites already, which offer Internet bill payment services for retail and corporate customers through inter-bank Giro system and also provide credit card facilities for Internet merchants. So the banks already do some. Non-banks participate in Internet commerce either as merchants or infrastructure providers. Merchants, for example, FairPrice, National Computer Services, Singapore Press Holdings or Golden Village, have access to their present credit card and the cash card payment system. Non-bank infrastructure providers, which only provide back-end Internet payment processing are not regulated by MAS. They are not banks, so they are not allowed to issue stored value cards because these cards are really a form of deposits to the banks and we want to make quite sure that there is a good institution there, properly regulated, so the institution would not fold up, taking the value of the cards with them.”
“In other words, the SES signed an agreement in writing with the KLSE to facilitate the migration of Clob shares, the opening of accounts in Malaysia on the MCD and the transfer of their shares to these individual accounts so that individual Clob shareholders can trade them in accordance with the new Malaysian rules through Malaysian brokers. SES and CDP have done everything expected of them under this agreement and they have been waiting for the Malaysians to do their part. We have asked SES to clarify the legal position and their legal advice is that there is no ambiguity about the legal position of Clob shareholders. Clob investors are legal owners of their Malaysian shares and they cannot be deprived of their rights, including the rights to trade their shares on the KL Stock Exchange eventually, subject to the same rules that the KLSE imposes on foreign investors. So that is where the position is. Obviously it is an unresolved issue between Singapore and Malaysia, which will be discussed further at the appropriate channels and forums. As for Total Defence and whether we are paying enough attention to economic defence, I think the Member has a valid point. On the one hand, we want to encourage inter-dependence with our trading partners, particularly with our neighbours. Because through inter-dependence, it gives both sides an incentive to work for mutual benefit. On the other hand, we also have to reserve our position and have some fall-back position in case inter-dependence does not work, so that we have some means to do it and go it alone. We do this in many areas. The Stock Exchange is one where an issue has arisen, but there are also other areas.”
“Clob operated like any other off-shore securities market in the world, and there were also Malaysian shares traded in other off-shore markets, for example, in London. On its part, the SES has always ensured that Clob complied fully with Malaysian law where applicable. All Malaysian shares traded on Clob were properly registered and deposited with Malaysian Central Depository (MCD) in accordance with its rules and regulations. The CDP, which is the Singapore Central Depository of shares, complied fully with applicable Malaysian law in its relationship with MCD. Otherwise, the Malaysian authorities would doubtless have promptly rectified the situation during the nine years when Malaysian shares were traded on Clob. When the Malaysians imposed new rules on 1st September and then shortly thereafter imposed exchange controls, they actually changed the rules and changed the scheme. After which, Clob reassessed the situation and found that it was not viable to continue, and suspended trading, and reached an agreement with the KLSE in September 1998 to expedite the migration of Clob investors' shares to the investors' own securities accounts with the Malaysian Central Depository in accordance with the procedures set out by the KL Stock Exchange at that time. The CDP signed an agreement with the Malaysian Securities Clearing Automated Networks Services Sendiran Berhad (SCANS) for this purpose. The intention was that once the migration was completed an investor could trade his Clob shares on the KL Stock Exchange.”
“What we have done is to arrange share ownership through Government divestments through an asset enhancement scheme through Singapore Telecom, later on Singapore Power, PSA and others. If you buy other shares on the SES, then you have to make your decisions whether to go in or not, and whether the shares are worth it or not, and when to sell. If you buy shares on Clob, then you go in on the clear understanding that these are not Singapore shares subject to Singapore rules, but over-the-counter shares bought and sold subject to rules which apply in other countries. In this case, we are talking about Malaysian shares and therefore subject to a different set of risks, and not just market risks, but the risk of the market itself breaking down or closing down, or running into some other problems. In fact, every transaction slip which Clob issued when it was operating had a disclaimer at the bottom that you are taking the risk and you have to know what you are doing. Unfortunately, a significant number of Singaporeans, including some who really could not afford it, thought that Clob was a good punt and found it more exciting that Singapore stocks, but there were risks. Mr Low said we ignored warnings that Clob was illegal and therefore we were irresponsible. In fact, Clob was never illegal. Clob was an off-shore stock market regulated under Singapore law and therefore outside the jurisdiction of Malaysian law. Therefore, Clob did not require legal recognition and authorisation of the Malaysian authorities to operate. That Clob was not recognised by the Malaysian authorities did not make it illegal for any investor, in fact even for Malaysian investors, to trade shares on Clob.”
“Besides addressing the financing concerns of high-tech start-ups, the Government has also set up the Technopreneurship 21 Committee, to look into the creation of a conducive environment that would allow nimble knowledge-based high-tech enterprises to flourish. And their initial recommendations are expected to be announced by the middle of the year. I should say, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, that while funding needs are a significant issue to consider, the basic problem in technological start-ups is that you need entrepreneurs, you need ideas, you need the technology and the talent, in order to launch a company. In other words, you need the primary pre-conditions before all the supporting paraphernalia will be of help to you. Otherwise, you will just be throwing money away and getting no returns. Many governments have tried spending money and have got no returns. The fact that we have $100 billion in official reserves, it is not an argument for throwing it away, but a demonstration of how not throwing money away leaves you with good savings. As for the high value of Internet stocks and the phenomenal success of Amazon.com, I agree with what Mr Low Thia Khiang said, ie, if that is the yardstick, then the Singapore Government must admit to have done very badly. But I do not think that is a yardstick and I am not sure what is going to happen with Internet stocks. I would advise Singaporeans not to look for quick schemes to double their wealth. 5.45 pm Mr Low Thia Khiang has asked about Clob. Firstly, he said the Government encourages share ownership and people have now been burnt. I should point out that we have never asked people to go and buy shares.”
“And when they are prepared to underwrite, their fees are quite high, and higher than those paid by companies with track records. Second, compliance and due diligence costs, preparing the prospectus and financial reports for an IPO, are expensive and prohibitive, unless you are raising a fairly large amount of money. If you look at companies which list on Nasdaq, they raise at least US$50 million for the national market or US$20 million for the small capital market. And this is quite a lot more than the amounts raised by many companies here, even on the main board. Therefore, the Corporate Finance Committee has recommended that the needs of start-up companies be met not by further relaxing compliance and due diligence standards on Sesdaq, but by establishing an Internet-based bulletin board to facilitate matching the needs of start-ups and those of sophisticated investors and venture capitalists who register as subscribers. These investors are better able to understand the risks and the potential for losses of investing in start-ups, and will contractually acknowledge the risks involved. In other words, you sign, you know what you are doing. If the money is lost, this was a gamble which you were prepared to take and are able to stomach. Start-ups may raise funds by selling their shares to small groups of subscriber investors without having to comply with the usual prospectus requirements, and so lower the compliance costs. The bulletin board will cater to start-ups and companies that find listing on Sesdaq uneconomical. The Government has agreed with this recommendation of the Corporate Finance Committee, and SES will study the feasibility of setting up an Internet-based bulletin board.”
“Mr Chuang Shaw Peng and Mr Inderjit Singh asked about raising money for start-ups and whether we need to change the rules and have a special exchange for high-tech start-ups. Currently, Sesdaq, which is SES's second board, caters to listings by small and medium sized enterprises which include technological start-ups. Contrary to popular impressions, Sesdaq's requirements for listing are in fact very basic and very flexible. You do not need any minimum profit. You do not need any issued capital or operating history to seek a listing on Sesdaq. These requirements are simpler and less onerous than those of other markets. But the fact is that when people go on to Sesdaq, they do tend to try to have some issued capital, operating history and so forth, because they find it easier to get investors to buy shares in their company if they have something to show, rather than just promises. SES does not normally take very long to accept or reject a listing application, not more than 4-6 weeks. But, of course, the issue manager may need time to perform due diligence and prepare the company for the listing before submitting the application to SES. How long the issue manager takes depends on the complexity of the case and whether any major restructuring needs to be done before the listing. We had a Corporate Finance Committee last year to review these issues amongst others, and they identified two impediments for start-up companies wishing to obtain a listing. First of all, start-ups find it difficult to find investment banks willing to manage and underwrite their share issues, because there is a perception that investors will not be interested in buying shares of start-up companies.”
“The most important incentive for rationalising is the fact that we are embarked irrevocably on a course of liberalising our domestic banking sector. We have said that we are going to do it over five years. We have been working out the specific schemes, and MAS will be announcing a plan and steps to accomplish this next month. Once this is in motion, the dynamics will look after themselves. Because as the environment becomes more open, the competitive pressures will grow and there will be incentives for the banks to rationalise, to get their own acts in order, to get plans for the medium and long term, and to shift their strategies and approaches and rationalise things, which perhaps they would have left be had they not been under such great pressure. And if you were to look at what the banks have been doing over the last few months, you will know that in fact the ice has broken, and they are already taking steps. It is not just DBS which has merged with POSBank, and is making business plans domestically and in the region. OCBC has recruited a new CEO from Hong Kong and explained to its staff its plans to raise returns on its equity and service to customers, and to focus their business on retail banking. OUB also has, I believe they call it OUB 21 plan, to improve their performance. And all the other banks, I am sure, are making their calculations on what they should do in this new situation. So there has to be free play. On the one hand, people want us to encourage the private sector to bloom. On the other hand, they want us to make the private sector do things. We find a judicious balance. We have set the forces in motion and must now let them play themselves out.”
“It went up somewhat over a period of a year or so, and it has gradually come down and it is now more or less at the starting point. So I do not think that the exchange rate has depreciated sharply. The best guarantee of the exchange rate is a strong economy, high domestic savings, no excessive foreign borrowings, confidence by foreign parties and by Singaporeans in the economy and in the currency. If people lose confidence in your currency, then you are finished. And if your domestic population lose confidence in your currency, you are even more finished, because you will never have enough reserves to stump up when Singaporeans come and say, "Here are my Singapore dollars, I want to swop them for US dollars, Yen, Euro or whatever." I think that the best protection of the Singapore dollar value is confidence and a sound set of economic principles. As for protection from speculators, we have never encouraged speculation in the Singapore dollar. We watch it quite carefully, and if it deviates too far from what we judge to be the fundamentals, MAS does not hesitate to intervene in order to bring it back. We have not had to do so very frequently and I think we have a good credibility with the market. If we want to do something, we are not without means altogether, and I think I do not have to say very much more than that on this subject. Mr Rai also asked about mergers of banks and what more we can do. First of all, it is not within the Government's power to compel local banks to merge. They will assess for themselves whether mergers are desirable for them, attractive as a strategy to stay competitive, or whether they prefer to go on their own.”
“Sir, besides the fact that obsolete technology can leave us behind, there is also this problem of being isolated from the world, because if we are intent on only developing one system that does not want to move forward, then we would end up being isolated from the world. And this would mean that the lead that we have achieved would be lost. As an example, NETS was the first smart card in the payment world. It has now been overtaken by quite a few other international services like the Belgian Proton, like Mondex, Maestro and there is the CIRRUS network and other systems all over the world that may soon overtake some of the things that NETS has developed a lead in. I would therefore call for a re-thinking of this monopoly that is currently present and allowing perhaps for non-bank clearers. In the Internet, everything is equal. All small and big players would be on a playing field that is level and therefore it might be possible to have a small, agile payment provider that is not a bank, or perhaps even a foreign bank provider or a consortium of foreign banks that could give NETS competition and a run for its money. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, Mr Shriniwas Rai asked about the Singapore dollar, its value is declining, how do we protect the value of the Singapore dollar. The Singapore dollar is a floating currency. It is a managed float, but, basically, its value is determined by the market supply and demand. Against the US dollar, it has depreciated maybe 20-odd percent since the crisis began in July 1997. But on a trade weighted basis, if you take an average of a basket of all our trading partners' currencies, in fact, the exchange rate has remained, more or less, stable.”
“Sir, there are two buzzwords today in Singapore: competitiveness and globalisation. In achieving the goals represented by these two words, Singapore has decided to go into the promotion and development of e-commerce and the development of Singapore as an intelligent island plugged into the world. But in the world of e-commerce with goods and services going one way, there is a need for payment to come the other way to complete the circle. Currently, however, for Internet commerce, we do have a bottleneck, and that bottleneck is because we have effectively only one Internet payment provider, ie, NETS, a cartel of banks. NETS is the only provider and it is a very high cost provider, understandably so because they have invested a lot of money into their systems. Some of these systems are, of course, increasingly getting obsolete because of the fast pace of technology development. NETS has done a good job in helping Singapore to be placed in the world of e-banking and e-commerce, but I think it is fast losing its competitiveness. We do not want it to become the hare that lost the race to the tortoise. When its services are high cost, it means that a lot of SMEs that we want to develop into e-commerce players have got this problem of not being able to pay the cost. For example, banks would charge transaction charges of 4-6% per transaction and require a minimum transaction of $50,000 per month, and there are lots of other sums involved too with the software and acquisition of the hardware and so on. These are sums that no businessman would go into if he wants to do e-commerce and then have to pay for the Internet payment services.”
“We have seen recently, for example, incursions on SingNet which led to the "SickNet" case, so to speak, where passwords were given on the Internet. More importantly, Singapore is building itself as an e-commerce hub, and one of the things that will happen is that data would be transferred from country to country. The European Union has, in fact, come out with a directive - Directive 95/46/EC - which deals with cross-border transfers of data. And in Article 25, paragraph 1, it allows the European nations to prevent the transfer of personal data which would be inclusive of data used in e-commerce. It prevents the transfer to countries which do not ensure an adequate level of protection. And adequate level of protection is seen in the light of the rules of law, both general and sectoral, that are in force, and the professional rules and security measures which are complied with in that country. Sir, I would like to urge that we review our laws to ensure that we can comply with these provisions so that we can continue to trade with Europe and we can continue to trade with the rest of the world that would require us to perhaps have laws and, amongst other things, also to have industry codes of privacy, such as perhaps the Association of Banks in Singapore, perhaps even CASE or the NIAC. These codes of privacy that are being promulgated could be given the force of law and then the provisions can be enforced so that we can indeed be able to answer charges if ever we are prohibited from trading with data with the European nations and with other jurisdictions.”
“All sorts of personal information today that is captured involves Government and private databases. The Government databases of course contain all the information that have been given to the Government agencies from cradle to grave. The banks and other private sector organisations will have information on your wealth or the lack thereof, your investments, the debts that you have, your credit card number, your NETs and ATM transactions, and perhaps even information that has no relation to your banking account, such as your mother's maiden name, and the occupations of your siblings. A record of your ATM or ERP transactions, for example, could lead to information on where you go shopping, and if the system is on-line, it could even, theoretically, be used to track your movements wherever you go. There have, of course, been enough Hollywood movies to drive home this point, almost to the point of paranoia and hysteria. In Singapore, Government systems are very secure, they are secured technically and also because incursions and leakages are governed by penalty prohibitions of the law such as the Official Secrets Act, the Computer Misuse Act and other Acts such as the Banking Act and the Income Tax Act. There is a very strong protection of personal data. 4.15 pm In the private sector, there are laws which govern confidentiality, the banking secrecy laws and contracts which prevent the dissemination of personal information, if such contracts exist. But very often, these contracts are biased against the small consumer who almost signs his whole life away, just for a service. Here, I am not being paranoid, because I think these things, even if the protection is in place, the best laid plans of men and mice go awry.”
“Sir, we are a nation that prides ourselves as one that is ruled by the rule of law and we have been praised by the international organisations like BERI and PERC that we have a highly efficient and very high-quality judicial system. One of the fundamental pillars of our society is also that ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is therefore important that we put access to the laws as a very high priority. With the onset of the Internet, the Internet is one of the best ways to make information available to all and sundry. Currently LawNet has got a database of the laws and statutes of Singapore. We also have handy references published, for example, by the Law Society of Singapore on the different laws and the summaries thereof. All this is fine and good, but if we could also have Internet access for members of the public to on-line statutes and case laws, it will indeed help us promote this idea that ignorance of the law is no excuse and you can find it freely or at a low cost on the Internet. We could, at the very least, put on the common statutes that affect the man-in-the-street, perhaps like the Small Claims Tribunal Act, Hire Purchase Act, Road Traffic Act, Penal Code, HDB Regulations, LTA Regulations, etc. It would also be good for us to have hyperlinks on this Internet site to other areas and other websites where summaries can be obtained and this would help the man-in-the-street to know his rights and duties and the responsibilities he has under our law. Sir, may I move on to my next cut? The Chairman: Yes.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, for many parents, the only thing they know about the Internet is how to spell it and pronounce it. Will SBA help this process by having public education programmes? I think the press releases recently were not enough. Will SBA also consider the question I asked earlier on of Prof. Ho, ie, obliging the ISPs to provide a family service that allows parents to block off IRC, if they consider it unproductive or bad for the children? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: SBA will do its share of the education, but this burden cannot be on SBA alone. As to whether we should ban IRC because some bad things happen on IRC, I think that would not be a good move because relay chats are very useful for a whole range of private communications. Whether some bad things take place within relay chats? Bad things happen on the phone line, through the fax machine and through the postal system. We cannot ban all these things just because some bad things happen within this medium. ELDERLY PATIENTS OVERSTAYING IN GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT RESTRUCTURED HOSPITALS 13. Mr Low Thia Khiang asked the Minister for Health how many elderly patients overstayed in Government and Government restructured hospitals for more than a month between 1996 and 1998 and what are the reasons for the overstay.”
“Will the Ministry of Home Affairs consider making it an obligation for the Internet Service Providers to have some special service which would allow parents to block IRC services, if necessary? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Ultimately, it is a matter of education. We will monitor the situation. Dr Toh has also asked MITA an oral question on what is being done. Ultimately, I think everybody must be aware of the dangers of IRC. IRC does facilitate communication. So before we block it out, let it do its work of helping people to communicate. At the same time, all users, especially parents, must be aware of the dangers that can arise from their children's usage. INTERNET RELAY CHAT COMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE (Legislation to regulate use) 12. Dr Toh See Kiat asked the Minister for Information and the Arts whether the Government intends to introduce legislation to criminalise or regulate the use of Internet Relay Chat communications infrastructure that lure women into rape and molest situations.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, for the ISPs, because they have this added responsibility of making sure that the users of Internet use it responsibly, would that not be seen as facilitating the offences if they do not block such behaviour? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: I think the IRC facilitates many activities. Ultimately, it is up to the users to be careful what happens from the usage of the IRC.”
“Will the Deputy Prime Minister clarify if the MAS would prohibit the start-up of a non-bank, not necessarily a foreign player, payment clearing house, particularly for Internet payments? BG Lee Hsien Loong: It is something we would have to look at carefully. We will have to consider the specific proposal.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, would the Minister then confirm that beyond April 2000 therefore any of the three operators would be able to state any price or have any kind of loyalty programmes they want without any regulation?”
“Sir, can I have the assurance of the Minister of State that whatever figures are in these guidelines, they would not serve as a minimum wage guideline in terms of employment of foreigners?”
“But my point is that the foreigners who need employment passes usually would not have CPF payment. So if there is a pay-cut, it will be completely from their pay and not from CPF cuts”
“Sir, the Minister of State has said that the bulk of reduction of the foreigners' income would come from the CPF cut. But most foreigners would actually not be paying CPF. So how would the Minister of State explain the reduction?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, thank you for your indulgence. I support the Bill and I just want to raise a small point for the Minister to consider. The Bill, as it stands right now, does not deal with e-mail addresses and domain names. I believe with Singapore's move into e-commerce and greater use of the Internet for competitive purposes, there will be an opportunity given to scoundrels and crooks who would register things as they have done in other countries like ronald@Mcdonald.com.sg and these are things which make use of well-known trade marks or even registered trade marks for purposes which include blackmailing the actual trade mark owner to pay off this particular person. So I would just like the Minister to consider adding this perhaps to the future amendment to the law. Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: I thank the Member for his suggestion. We can certainly consider it as we see how the law works out. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. GEOGRAPHICAL INDICATIONS BILL Order for Second Reading read. 4.38 pm”
“We will be conducting seminars and printing booklets to educate and help consumers to stretch their dollar and to understand their rights when, for example, their hire purchase companies foreclose in on them. We will protect consumers and campaign to expose profiteers, opportunists, those identified with the help of our "eyes and ears" all over Singapore - our 600,000 members, union members and members of the public. We also call on consumers not to patronise food establishments which impose a mandatory 10% service charge (especially if this is on top of a compulsory pickle or peanut charge) without giving real service in return. We will publish the names of these institutions that do not charge the way that we advocate and we will channel more customers to those who are easy on the customers. We hope, of course, that the Government will show its concern for consumers and give us a grant to work on this project. CASE calls on all consumers to work with us to make our dollars go a long way through this dark storm ahead. Sir, I support the motion.”
“Landlords, especially the GLCs, HDB and JTC, must reduce their rental; retailers must cut the prices of at least the basic necessities, as NTUC Fairprice has done; insurance companies must ease up on their collection of premiums or provide easy payment schemes, as NTUC Income has done; and professionals such as doctors and pharmacists must charge lower fees so healthcare becomes more affordable. Restaurant owners must take their heads out of the sand and work at charging less, and accept that they must not insist on a flat 10% service charge in all circumstances. If they could reduce their service charge to only 5%, I suspect the rise in clientele would more than make up for the loss! Nevertheless, I call on the Government to be easy on the SMEs who scramble to pay the Government charges, levies and CPF contributions on time - but fail. A little more understanding on the part of civil servants could go a long way towards putting a human face on the efficient bureaucratic machine we have. Otherwise, the added burden of heavy penalties will drive the SMEs under and more people will lose their jobs. In the spirit of tripartism, cost cutting is not just for workers and Government. The employers who are business owners must also contribute their share. In all this, the Consumers' Association of Singapore (CASE) too has a part. CASE's mission is to inform, educate and protect consumers. We have embarked on a campaign to identify cheap places and inform consumers on businesses which will give them value for money - whether they be hawker centres, shops, supermarkets, restaurants, or other businesses.”
“Such a call will have an impact on the numerous small transactions that will be made by consumers on the Internet. Are we going to say that GST is being leaked there too and so retailers should be protected through the diligent collection of GST from such individuals? If so, I fear efforts in promoting e-commerce will be greatly hampered. If retailers are hurting from competition, whether from Johor, Batam or cyberspace - surely the answer is in themselves. I urge Government to further consider easing the burden of the average consumer by, for example, making sure that not only those who earn below $1,200 be spared the wage cut, but, in addition, Government should continue to give rebates for service and conservancy charges in respect of 1- to 3-room flat dwellers and town councils. As my colleague, Mr Gerard Ee, has mentioned, we should have the compassion to allow for those who have financial difficulties to pay their charges in instalments in easy payment schemes. The HDB also provides a benchmark for property prices, in that the price ceiling of the HDB market is a convenient base on which to prop up the floor of the private property market. With the distance between top end HDB flats and low end private flats as little as they are at present (and almost non-existent between the Executive Condominiums and entry level private condominiums) - surely the HDB could lower their sale prices. If this means a larger subsidy from the Government, is this not the right time to do it? Similarly, HDB mortgage rates could be lowered to provide flat owners some relief. If necessary, such a measure could just be limited to the owners of 1- to 4-room flats, so as to free the disposable income currently frozen into the property market. I turn now to businesses.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I applaud the Committee on Singapore's Competitiveness (CSC) for its calls to cut wages, electricity and telecommunication charges, port service charges, extend property tax and income tax rebates, reduce income and road taxes, offer infrastructural support for working mothers who need child care facilities, adjust industrial land prices to international benchmarks, and adjust downwards the cost of owning cars through reducing customs and petrol duties. Sir, there are many "goodies" in the package for businesses, but I want to highlight the plight of the consumer and the help that we too sorely need. I ask the Government, in accepting the CSC's Report, to spare a thought for the consumers, please. Specifically, I have a few proposals, but I would not repeat the proposals like the maid levy and GST cut which my colleagues have raised in this House and which I fully support. First, I want to speak against the CSC's recommendation to reduce the $200 GST exemption for day trippers who have shopped overseas. Much as I wish Singaporeans would have a greater sense of dignity and solidarity in the face of abusive and hostile treatment from those they buy from, I realise that the savings are significant and there are some who need the savings badly enough to face shoddy treatment. If Singapore retailers want to increase their customer base, they must really work to bring back the customers and not take the path of least resistance by preventing Singaporeans from shopping overseas. They must take heart from the experiences of good retailers like Borders, Robinsons and NTUC Fairprice. I am concerned too that once the call to reduce or remove GST exemption is heeded, we would open the floodgates for more calls to prevent "GST leakage".”
“Sir, I would like to ask the Minister what the Government's response would be to Malaysia's attempt to bring this matter to the International Labour Organisation (ILO).”
“POST OFFICE SAVINGS BANK OF SINGAPORE (TRANSFER OF UNDERTAKINGS) AND DISSOLUTION BILL "to provide for the transfer of the respective undertakings and employees of Post Office Savings Bank of Singapore and Credit POSB Pte Ltd to The Development Bank of Singapore Ltd, the dissolution of Post Office Savings Bank of Singapore and for all matters connected therewith, to repeal the Post Office Savings Bank of Singapore Act (Chapter 237 of the 1985 Revised Edition) and to make consequential amendments to other written laws", recommendation of President signified; presented by Dr Richard Hu Tsu Tau; read the First time; to be read a Second time on the next available sitting of Parliament, and to be printed. IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL "to amend the Immigration Act (Chapter 133 of the 1997 Revised Edition)", presented by the Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng); read the First time; to be read a Second time on the next available sitting of Parliament, and to be printed. LAND TITLES (STRATA) (AMENDMENT) BILL 2.40 pm Order for Second Reading read.”
“Sir, I wish to follow up on Dr Tan's practical question about trains stopping at Woodlands. Supposing tomorrow the train at Woodlands comes through and refuses to stop or refuses to let people off, would there be a danger of an international incident? Prof. Jayakumar: As a Foreign Minister, I do not "suppose" too many things publicly. BILLS INTRODUCED BOUNDARIES AND SURVEY MAPS BILL "to provide for the demarcation of land, the establishment and maintenance of boundary marks and the publication of certain survey maps, and to repeal the Boundaries and Survey Maps Act (Chapter 25 of the 1985 Revised Edition) and the Landmarks Act (Chapter 159 of the 1985 Revised Edition) and to make consequential amendments to the Land Surveyors Act (Chapter 156 of the 1992 Revised Edition)", presented by the Minister of State for Law (Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee); read the First time; to be read a Second time on the next available sitting of Parliament, and to be printed. CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE (AMENDMENT NO. 2) BILL "to amend the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (1992 Revised Edition) and to make consequential amendments to the Post Office Savings Bank of Singapore Act (Chapter 327 of the 1985 Revised Edition)", recommendation of President signified; presented by the Minister for Finance (Dr Richard Hu Tsu Tau); read the First time; to be read a Second time on the next available sitting of Parliament, and to be printed.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Malaysians refer both to the Points of Agreement and the exchange of letters between the Secretary-General and the Permanent Secretary that they do not count.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, PM Mahathir is reported to have said that for agreements between Malaysia and Singapore to be binding, they have to be ratified by his Cabinet and Parliament. This cannot be right because if Ministers and senior civil servants cannot bind their own country to agreements signed by them, the question is how, in international law, should binding agreements be signed. The second question is, Sir, Malaysia is reported to have argued that there is an agreement to allow them to have CIQ at Tanjong Pagar and that this document has not been terminated. Is this correct, Sir?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the DPM has mentioned that the ABS has a Code of Conduct. To my knowledge, this is not a public document. The ABS has never released it, and this makes it difficult for the boundaries to be known to consumers. Would the DPM say that the ABS would release this Code of Conduct for transparency purposes? BG Lee Hsien Loong: The ABS is not a Government organisation, but we will certainly put this proposal to them to consider.”
“That is right. In other words, the act of sending the e-mail is not wrong but only when the advertiser is so insistent and persistent that he bombs out the e-mail system. Then I support that, Sir.”