Toh See Kiat
Singapore
“Sir, on the issue of transparency, would it not be good for the banks, firstly, to make it very prominent by displaying perhaps on their premises the rules that they have in relation to not just small savers but all savers?”
“By the way, even though I do disagree somewhat with the Minister's reply earlier in this House that IRCs cannot be regulated, I think more education can be given to get parents to know that uncontrolled Internet use by their children can lead to problems and they must actually not use the excuse that they know nothing about Internet and i…”
“I was visiting China some years back and there was this official who actually talked to me about Sentosa's attractions and our tourist attractions and he said to me, "In Singapore, you have nothing to show tourists. And yet you have 7 million of them every year. In China, we have got so much to show them.”
“We are not going to review this part of the policy because the security and financial risks of Internet payments are still not yet fully understood.”
“Will the Ministry of Home Affairs consider making it an obligation for the Internet Service Providers to have some special service which would allow parents to block IRC services, if necessary? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Ultimately, it is a matter of education. We will monitor the situation.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, for the ISPs, because they have this added responsibility of making sure that the users of Internet use it responsibly, would that not be seen as facilitating the offences if they do not block such behaviour? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: I think the IRC facilitates many activities.”
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“Sir, may I take my two amendments together?”
“Sir, I would like to congratulate the Minister for a very well thought-out plan on road management as represented by the Electronic Road Pricing Scheme and the accompanying rebate and road tax reform programme. I would also like to congratulate the Minister for having spent much time and effort in explaining all the ramifications of the plan and answering all the various questions that have arisen, privately, publicly and in the media. My colleagues and I on the GPC (Communications) have also made many queries and suggestions which the Minister and his staff have forbearingly and patiently tolerated. I thank the Minister for this. Sir, I hope the Minister would forbear one more time for a simple request. There has been some anxiety about the safety of the in-vehicle unit used to pay ERP charges. There have also been requests to reveal the details of the tests and the conditions in which they have been conducted. I suppose the people who have asked want to evaluate for themselves whether it is indeed safe or not. Above all, there have been queries on many aspects of implementation and on the operation of the system. As these have appeared in various media and fora in dribs and drabs at different times and different places, can the Minister consider putting these and other frequently asked questions (in Internet jargon, it is the FAQs) on their website or some other websites dedicated to this topic and give us the URL, the address of this website, and then for those who are not Internet ready, to have these answers compiled and disseminated in hard copy brochures and booklets in the four official languages? We would all be very grateful if the Minister could oblige.”
“I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $330,008,110 for Head W ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $3,400,650,000 for Head W ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head O -”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head W of the Development Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code WK 5200. Sir, just a quick point on the approved cybertrader scheme. The scheme presently gives tax incentives to international players that do offshore trade. I believe that this scheme is good but I think we could do more, for example, to help local companies, especially start-up companies, to do e-commerce so that Singapore can become an e-commerce hub. This is important because from the Silicon Valley experience which General Yeo has mentioned, we see that a lot of brave young men and women, some might say brash young men and women, are the ones that start these companies. But they do not have the money. I think we can do more for them in terms of tax incentives too. That is what I want to say. With your indulgence, Sir, since we do have time, can I go back to my earlier topic?”
“Sir, Mr Leong Horn Kee is concerned about the performance of the retail industry. The problems faced by the retail sector stems from both structural and cyclical factors. These include keen competition for the consumer dollars, slower visitor arrivals and spending by Singaporeans in regional economies as a result of the relatively stronger Singapore dollar. Private consumption expenditure may also be affected this year as Singaporeans tighten their belts, following more moderate growth. The Government has put in place several assistance measures to overcome the retail sector's cyclical and structural difficulties. Firstly, to help retailers affected by the drop in regional tourists, STB is intensifying its efforts in markets which are relatively unaffected, such as I mentioned just now ---”
“Sir, the expected drop in tourist arrivals will reduce STB's projected cess revenue for this year, and consequently its resources available for tourist promotion. However, in view of the need to maintain Singapore's presence in key tourist markets and to compete effectively against regional destinations, STB will sustain the previous level of marketing effort. Sir, there is a need to rationalise our promotional efforts and focus on markets which show greater potential for growth. STB has made a strategic shift to intensify its marketing efforts in markets like the US, Europe, Australia, Taiwan, India and China. However, STB will remain engaged in markets that are expected to under-perform as a result of the regional financial crisis, so that we are in a position to attract travellers from these countries when they recover from the economic difficulties. To achieve better results, STB will work closely with industrial players. It will continue to promote key tourism events like the Great Singapore Sale, Singapore Food Festival, etc. In addition, STB will leverage on our rich cultural heritage to attract visitors to Singapore. For instance, STB has packaged various year-end festivals into a three-month long programme called Celebration Singapore. This programme will feature various ethnic festival light-ups as well as the popular Chingay procession. As part of the Tourism 21 blueprint, STB will also develop the culturally and historically rich areas around Chinatown, into a themed tourism product. Within this thematic zone, various cultural activities, like Chinese opera, will be staged. I can assure the Members that STB will continue to monitor developments in the regional market and will come in with additional measures to assist the industry, if necessary.”
“For the members of the public, now they can even go to community centres and community clubs to have access to computers. Of course, this is only under a pilot project. There are only two CCs involved. If this is proven to be successful, it can be implemented in other CCs. In the coming months, more programmes will be put in place to reach out to more people. These include a permanent IT exhibition to be staged at the Singapore Science Centre from May this year. It will be a fun and interactive exhibition that will showcase the benefits of IT in all aspects of our lives - at work, in school, at home and in our recreation pursuits. Another programme is a travelling IT coach. This is in partnership with NTUC and industrial partners. And this is to promote IT literacy training and skills upgrading to workers in the factories. NCB also will be setting up more Singapore One clubs in community centres and selected libraries. And NCB will be holding more IT awareness seminars for members of the public, together with the People's Association. On the questions raised by Mrs Lim Hwee Hua and Mr Rai on the promotion of the tourism industry, Sir, although we had 7.2 million visitors last year, it was a dip of 1.3% compared to 1996. With the continued weakness in the regional economy and the likely return of the haze, the Singapore Tourism Board expects a further drop in tourist arrivals this year by about 10%. Mrs Lim also raised the haze problems which will be affecting the arrival of tourists. The Ministry of the Environment is working closely with regional counterparts to minimise the problem or to prevent a repeat of the haze situation last year. I think the Minister for the Environment will be elaborating on these measures.”
“For the financial sector, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) issued circulars in May 1997 and October 1997 to all banks and financial institutions outlining measures they should take to address the Year 2000 problem. All banks and financial institutions are required to complete their Year 2000 conversion and testing processes by the end of this year. This is to allow sufficient time for any rectification required. MAS is presently conducting a survey to assess the status of financial institutions' preparedness for the Year 2000 problem. Our local institutions are on track in their preparations. Most of the larger foreign financial institutions have established global programmes to tackle the problem. MAS will liaise with financial institutions that have difficulties in tackling the problem. Just now Mr Zainul Abidin brought up the issue of promoting IT culture at the grassroots level. I would like to give some more details. Sir, one major thrust in IT2000 Plan is to promote an IT culture amongst our people so that Singapore will become one of the most IT-literate countries in the world. To achieve this objective, NCB has adopted a two-pronged approach of creating IT awareness and increasing IT's usage among Singaporeans. NCB's efforts since 1995 have met with much success. There are a number of initiatives which are launched by NCB. Let me cite a few examples here: (1) 13 computer road shows have been held; (2) A four-part infortainment programme was televised in 1996, and, in fact, for this year, there will be another series of IT TV programmes over Channel 5 and Channel 8. Another programme launched by NCB is to set up computer playgrounds. So far, six computer playgrounds have been set up that reach out to children.”
“He would like to know whether the private sector is ready to cope with this problem. I would like to take this opportunity to inform the Member that the National Computer Board launched a Year 2000 Conversion Campaign in November 1996 to raise awareness of the problem and to drive conversion of the Government's systems. The Government has targeted to complete conversion of all affected IT systems by the end of this year. Ministries, departments and statutory boards have completed detailed impact analysis and have begun to convert their systems. The public sector conversion programme is on schedule and all agencies are expected to meet the end of this year target. Testing and fine-tuning can then be carried out next year. As for the private sector, NCB has also implemented a number of initiatives to increase the awareness of the private sector and the general public. NCB has supported and participated in talks conducted for various industrial sectors. It has set up a Year 2000 Website. These provide useful avenues to discuss the issues, to share experiences and to seek help. I would like to emphasise that it is in the interest of the companies to tackle the Year 2000 issue seriously. There are a number of well qualified IT firms in Singapore which are able to provide solutions to this problem. For small and medium-sized enterprises that face difficulties, they can approach NCB for financial assistance under the Local Enterprise Computerisation Programme. SMEs can seek assistance to help defray part of the cost of consultancy services. Dr Toh has also asked about what happens to the financial sector.”
“Basically, it is not easy to prove which advertisement is misleading or false and also the advertiser can prove it by bringing up only one case. So it is not easy for the Government to pass legislation to ban this type of advertisement. But if Dr Toh has suggestions to make, we would be very pleased to consider them. 5.30 pm As a consumer watchdog, the Consumers Association of Singapore (CASE) can help safeguard the interests of consumers by educating them. The Government is of the view that most of the provisions in the New Zealand Fair Trading Act have equivalent provisions in our Consumer Protection Act. That is why the Government feels that there is no need to introduce a Fair Trading Act in Singapore. But I am happy to learn that CASE is preparing a proposal which will be submitted to the Ministry in a few months' time. We will look into this seriously. Dr Toh and Mr Goh Choon Kang mentioned about cases involving soft commodity traders cheating the members of the public. I would like to inform the Members that the Government is aware of such cases. A Committee, in fact, was formed last year to look into this problem. But, currently, rubber and coffee are the only commodities regulated under the Commodities Futures Act and Regulations. The Government is now studying whether it is also possible to extend the Act to cover the other commodities. However, no regulatory system can guarantee returns for investors in the futures market, nor can regulations protect investors from making losses. Investors must therefore be discerning in responding to advertising claims and should stay away from dubious investment schemes which promise unrealistically high returns. Dr Toh has also talked about the problem of the millennium bug.”
“Just to follow up on the Minister's point on consortia that have been formed. The Minister says that the funding from the Ministry does go to the consortia. But the consortia that he mentioned are largely NUS, NTU, government-led and initiated. I did ask the Minister in my speech whether the Ministry would fund a private consortium if such a need do arise. BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: I think we would, if we are in agreement with the objectives and we are confident that its output will be worthwhile. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Trade and Industry (Mr Tang Guan Seng): Sir, on behalf of my Minister, I will respond to the points made by other Members, including the point made by Mr Zainul Abidin, which I will reply in greater detail. I will first address the point made by Dr Toh See Kiat. He requested that the Government introduce a Fair Trading Act to protect the interests of the consumers. He also mentioned of cases where companies resorted to scare and cheating tactics. First of all, I would like to thank the Member for bringing up these cases because this is the best way to educate the consumers. Before I go into it further, I would like to explain the basic approach of the Government on consumer protection, ie, our approach has always been market-based with minimal government regulation. I think we should let the consumer decide what product they want to buy. The Government will only intervene where there are safety, health or moral issues or where there is a market failure. Dr Toh mentioned about newspaper advertisements which were misleading to the consumers. We did look into this problem but we feel that it is practically quite difficult to address this issue.”
“Sir, the Minister has said in this House that the ECH Committee has made some recommendations. I think in an earlier reply to Dr Lee's question, there were some sketches of what the ECH Committee has recommended. What I had asked for was whether the Ministry would be willing to consider publishing the full report so that the investors and members of the public can understand where they can position themselves if they want to innovate in this area. BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: The NCB and the Committee of the NITC are in constant contact with players in the industry. So they are aware. From time to time, information will be disclosed to members of the public. We have got to promote what we are doing, not just locally, but also internationally. The NITC has a programme to market Singapore's IT efforts in a big way later this year or next year.”
“Can I give way to some other Members first?”
“And I think the decline of standards would be gradual, but it would be inevitable. Sir, it is time to pass legislation which makes it illegal for businesses to resort to such tactics. A Fair Trading Act along the lines of what CASE has been advocating will enhance Singapore's image as a shopping haven, enable trade associations to self-regulate and set their own standards, so that Government continues to have a light touch. It would prevent and avert litigious resolutions of consumer disputes and make the retail trade a more productive one. Because if the retail resources are not chanelled into combating unfair competitive moves by unscrupulous business rivals and the demands of unreasonable consumers, then the resources can be used elsewhere. CASE will be forwarding a proposal to the Ministry within the next few months to explain the issue further, and I hope the Minister will consider its recommendations. Sir, may I move on to the next cut?”
“They are factory operators, 3-room residents and they lose $30,000 or $60,000. They are not rich people. These are frightening facts. In terms of time-share complaints, from April 1995 to March 1996, CASE received 53 complaints. From April 1996 to March 1997, we received 109 complaints. From May 1997 to February 1998, we received 607 complaints. Because this line is so lucrative, they made so much money that they do not care what ethics are. Because as far as they are doing something that the law does not prohibit or doing it in ways which the law does not prohibit, they say they are safe. These facts and figures reflect only the most egregious examples. They are the tip of the iceberg as Singaporeans find it too embarrassing or too troublesome to raise these matters publicly. They reflect the failure of the law to adjust to changed market conditions. Such unethical and unconscionable ways of doing business should be eradicated from Singapore if we do not want Singapore's image as a shopping haven to be tarnished. It is hard enough getting tourists to Singapore. If they and Singaporean consumers are exploited like this, then we become known as a nation of thieves and this is not something that the retail sector or the related trades would want to be known for, because they are already in the doldrums, and they will be in the doldrums for a long time to come if they do not change these unscrupulous traders in their midst, and turf them out, so to speak. 3.00 pm Sir, as I said, many are indeed honest and fair. But when they see others resorting to these unscrupulous tactics, the temptation is always there. They are not being caught, they are not being prosecuted, perhaps I am a stupid fool if I do not do the same thing.”
“On further look, we the Consumers Association of Singapore realise that the company actually was a company that was in a beverage line. What they were saying was that coffee has caffeine but you do not know that cocoa also has caffeine. Did you? Because every evening mothers make a hot drink of cocoa for the children before they go to bed. And they said cocoa has caffeine. The implication therefore is that it is not safe. But of course this is a company selling a non-cocoa based beverage. So scare tactics are there, making people think that unsubstantiated papers are really facts. The other thing about this advertisement campaign was that the paper that they had was dismissed by our medical experts as an ancient paper. It was obsolete. The studies were no longer relevant. But the uninformed consumer cannot tell. There is a third technique which is unconscionable and, that is, the hard sell tactics that have become such a common way of doing business in Singapore. We have heard Mr Sin Boon Ann yesterday talk about soft commodities being sold that way. They advertise a job vacancy and they say "elderly people, housewives, retirees, students, anybody, no training needed, no skills needed, just come and you have got high income, $2,000-$3,000 a month." When people go down there, they say, "You have to go through two days of on-the-job training." And it is really two days of hard sell, at the end of which they are told, "Well, I think you have to prove. You have to learn on the job and prove that you are a good person. So good in this line. Therefore, we want you to put in your own money, $15,000." When the $15,000 is lost, they say, "To recover that $15,000, you need another $15,000." I think many MPs have written to CASE and I share the pain of these people.”
“I will take all my related cuts together in this speech. The first issue I want to talk about relates to fair and ethical trading. The Singapore market place is an orderly one and most businessmen are prim and proper persons earning an honest living. In recent years, however, there has been a growing number of persons who have been skilfully skirting the grey edges of our current law to perpetrate all sorts of schemes which exploit the naive, the gullible and the poorly-informed. There is a growing mass of persons who are selling goods and promises which are useless or not exactly what they have been promised. Our current laws on misrepresentation, false trade descriptions of goods, investments and sales of goods and services are woefully inadequate for such scams. Let me highlight some examples and figures. First, there is something called the switch and bait technique. An advertisement or a poster campaign or a circular campaign might advertise that a certain travel agency is selling tickets to, say, the furthest end of the earth, the North Pole, at $200. People looking for adventure might say, "Hey, that is a wonderful deal." They run down and the shop says, "Sorry, we just sold the last two." Actually, they never had any. But they just want you to go down there, bait you down there, and then switch you to another product or service they are selling. I do believe that is not quite fair game. Secondly, they use scare tactics. There was one case where an advertising campaign warned about all the dangers of drinking coffee and it was pitched as a health education campaign. They exhibited scientific reports about foetal abnormalities and thing like that.”
“We need a concerted effort of both private and public sectors, perhaps even a Government Ministry to plan, monitor, coordinate or even regulate such efforts. Sir, at the Committee of Supply debate last year, I argued for a Ministry of Information Technology. Perhaps what I should have argued for is not so much a Technology Ministry as a Ministry which would lead and envision the different ways we can harness technology. We can harness this to use and manage information so as to promote trade and the competitiveness of Singapore. Additionally, as IT related agencies are all over the place currently, with the NCB, TDB and EDB in MTI, SBA in MITA, TAS in MinCom, etc, it is perhaps time we pooled all of them together in one Ministry to prevent confusion to investors and the public and send a message to the world that we are serious about making IT and EC work in Singapore. In a question to the Prime Minister's Office about the formation of a Ministry of Information Technology, I received a reply that Singapore already has the NCB and the National Information Technology Committee which actually has done a lot of things and kept Singapore very much up-to-date and the plans like IT 2000 have all been going on track. I would suggest that perhaps one of the most important things is when we have a Ministry that pools together all these agencies, even if they have been working well with an inter-agency committee like the National IT Committee. It is perhaps time to emphasise that Singapore really cares about making IT work and Electronic Commerce as a strategic matter that Singapore is concerned about.”
“Many of these recommendations, I understand, have been formulated with input largely from academics and public sector officials. This is an area for which more private sector input is required. There is much promotional and educational work that also needs to be done to ensure that consumers take readily and kindly to EC. I wonder if the Government would dedicate funds to do these things, and whether Government would allocate funds to the private sector if there can be found champions who would take these tasks upon themselves. Here, Sir, I must declare my interest as the founder of one such organisation called CommerceNet Singapore. Could the Minister also brief the House on our participation in international fora which are working on research, policies and laws which will facilitate EC. Again, would the Minister say if the Government would fund some of the work which is being done by Singapore organisations that are representing Singapore's interest and views in international fora, such as the United Nations, International Chamber of Commerce, SWIFT and other similar private sector initiatives? I know of some private individuals who are regularly invited to present Singapore's perspective and expert opinions in such international fora, but who have to spend their own private funds for this national service. I have for many years called for the setting up of an agency to support these efforts, privately and publicly, but my calls have not been answered. Indeed, there is also a need for an agency to discuss and gather all these learning experiences from different conferences and projects to which Singaporeans have attended and to transmit this to other Singaporeans, businesses and Government agencies alike.”
“Sir, first on electronic commerce. Singapore is positioning itself to be the hub of electronic commerce (EC). This is evident from the fact that we have a national project called the Electronic Commerce Hotbed (ECH) programme and from the incentives given in the Budget under discussion. For the uninitiated, EC is a broad term to refer to all manner of buying and selling services and products through the use of electronic communication channels, foremost of which is the Internet. Some people even consider the transfer of funds through bank ATM machines as electronic commerce. There is, I believe, a committee which has sat and made some recommendations to the Government on how Singapore can position itself to become an EC hub. These recommendations include laws and other regulatory policies. Unlike the recommendations of the banking sub-committee which was released and made public and largely approved recently, the efforts of the ECH Committee have been kept relatively under wraps. There was a reply by the Minister to Dr Lee Tsao Yuan's question earlier this year, I believe, which sketches some of these recommendations, but I would urge the Minister to consider revealing what these plans and recommendations are more broadly so that investors and EC participants would know what to do, how much to invest in, when to invest and so on. Because if they are unable to obtain information on what is in store for them in future, how are they going to prepare themselves. I also hope that the new Law Reform Unit set up in the Attorney-General's Chambers will look specifically into all aspects of the law which relate to electronic commerce as a priority and not just incidental work, and to seek private sector input before these laws are formulated.”
“And I do urge the Minister to redouble his efforts to make sure that the private sector realises the impact of the year 2000 problem.”
“I know NCB has actually been doing a lot of publications and publicity, seminars, and so on, to help Singaporeans realise that there is this problem out there. The frightening thing to me is that as the seminars continue to be conducted, there are more and more people attending, that means, there are a lot of people out there who are just beginning to realise that there is a problem. Banks of course have been warned by the MAS to look into this carefully. The Government is also basically ready for the year 2000. But, Sir, I am afraid that the private sector may not be ready. This is why earlier, at a sitting of Parliament some time last year, I asked the Minister whether it was necessary to legislate for a contingency like this. The answer was of course that it is not necessary to legislate for a one-off event to ensure that companies prepare for the millennium. But, Sir, I would like to urge the Minister to rethink that perhaps even if no legislation is required, there should be some strong directives to tell companies that they must spend money and there must be incentives to help them recover or pay for the changes that they have to make. In an article in PC Week Asia on 8th February 1998 entitled "Asia not prepared as year 2000 draws near", there was a study of six countries in Asia and Singapore was one of them. This report alarmingly stated that almost half of Singapore companies, 47% to be exact, have not addressed this problem. For those who have addressed this problem, only 1.1% have completed it and 33.4% are in the process. Sir, it is already 1998. They have to have the systems ready in 1999 or the end of 1998 to test it for one year before the millennium changes. I am afraid, Sir, it might be too late for many of them.”
“Sir, in last year's Committee of Supply, Dr Ho Tat Kin raised this problem of the millennium bug. The millennium bug or the year 2000 problem is a programming design defect in some software, hardware and microchips which could cause havoc when computer systems do not recognise the change of century from the 20th to the 21st century, because these computers are programmed to only recognise the year by two digits and so it cannot tell the difference between the year 1900 and the year 2000. When computer systems are as widely used as they are today and they are so prevalent in all sorts of equipment and even the cars that we drive, a serious problem can arise if these computers or chips do not recognise that the year 1999 has changed to the year 2000 and then it stops working. If they stop working or if they think that the year 2000 is the year 1900, then of course banks will be paying a hundred years of interest and cars may decide that they are due for maintenance and therefore switch off so that drivers will be forced to send them for repair. These things may be minor but I think in America and in Europe, the estimates for potential loss actually go into the region of billions of dollars. Because there will be liability for mishaps if a car suddenly stops and knocks into somebody and kills, or damages property, or if banks suddenly have to reorientate the software because there is a lot of financial recalculation to be done. There could be a new financial crisis of a different sort. And perhaps for companies that have not prepared themselves for the litigation that could arise or the problems of changing the computers to meet the 21st century, suddenly they may have to report insolvency because so much money has to be spent and they do not have it.”
“The third area that I would urge the Minister to look at and to give more funds to is this area of preventing structural unemployment. This means that there are workers out there who are not quite so skilled but perhaps have never had time to go for training. And even if they had time after work, they are too tired to do so. Many of the workers would actually be holding two to three jobs and they might say, "Look. I have no time to go for training." I think this is an opportunity then for us to find schemes to give companies the opportunities to retrain the workers on the workers' own work time. Because to ask them to do so otherwise would not be very successful. With this, I would like to ask the Minister to continue looking deeply into these issues.”
“We do not see too much of that currently and with the Ministry working perhaps in conjunction with the Ministry of Manpower, some funds can be allocated for projects like this. An agency like this could then be able to match more accurately the needs of the market and the skills that are out there waiting to be harnessed. 2.00 pm The second area that we need to look closer into and more deeply is this area of service skills. I have just had lunch with a group of businessmen who feel that these are tough times because Singapore is costly and the region is very cheap. And if any tourists were to start coming back again, they would go to our neighbours rather than here. Our discussion turned to this area of service skills. Many of our shops, whether they are big or small, are still caught in a time-frame which I think is what made us competitive in early days when our labour costs were low. We emphasise the cheapness of what we sell rather than the quality of what we sell and the quality of service and the follow-up that we give after the sale. I think we need to spend effort to give companies and workers the rationale, the incentive and the reason why they should upgrade their service skills. Because right now Singapore is already an expensive place, and if you do not pack your products or services at a higher level, then you cannot compete with the crowd. You have to rise to the situation where, like on Fifth Avenue in New York, things are very expensive, everybody knows that, yet the whole world makes a pilgrimage there whenever they go to America. And I think we must begin to give Singapore that cachet, that image of a place where you come because you get good products, you get good after-sales service, and you will not be taken for a ride.”
“Sir, many speakers before me have mentioned that these are indeed tough economic times and it is important that Government spends time, effort and funds to prepare Singapore to face the challenges ahead. We have allocated indeed some funds for skills retraining and for the training and development of manpower to help those coming back to work and to retrain them to prevent structural unemployment. I would like to ask the Minister to consider putting even more money because this must be seen as an investment for us to make at a time when things are relatively cheaper and workers are able to spare that time. The three basic areas that I would urge the Ministry to look deeper into are as follows. The first is this group of elderly people and housewives who are returning back to the workforce. With these two groups of people there are certain problems which I think have not been addressed sufficiently. First of all, for those returning to the workforce after 10 or 15 years away from the working world they have a lack of confidence. Sometimes, even if their skills are still there, they feel that their skills are now obsolete and out of date because times have changed. For example, teachers would feel that students nowadays are not quite the same as they were when they first taught 10 or 15 years ago. So they lose that confidence. I think we can use this quiet time to spend a little bit more time in orientating them back to the working world, back to schools or companies or whatever professions they are in. And we must encourage companies to do these things by giving them tax incentives and grants. We also need to have a kind of agency which can match the job and the skills with the particular person that needs to come back to the workforce.”
“We have an increasingly educated and sophisticated electorate - we must not think that all this explanation is unproductive or wasteful or will indeed go over their heads. Let us all have the benefit of knowing all the deep thinking and sound analysis that went into each Government policy and not just be told to accept unquestioningly the eminent conclusions they have reached. Let us work together towards being a society that responds more caringly and sensitively to matters of Government policy, rather than to always turn to the over-ready financial beating rod. Sir, I support the motion. EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) Resolved, That the debate on the Budget Statement be proceeded with beyond 4.30 pm and the proceedings thereon be exempted at this day's sitting from the provisions of Standing Order No. 1 until 6.30 pm. - [Mr Wong Kan Seng]. ANNUAL BUDGET STATEMENT Debate resumed.”
“This way, Government is more visibly accountable to the people and public feedback is not seen as merely post-policy (or post-Budget) chipping away at the policy's edges. There will be no more unthinking resort to monetary mechanism as a first, rather than as a last, option. Surely, there must be plenty of alternatives always - albeit these alternatives may require patience, time, gentle persuasion and tedious education efforts. I surfed the Internet discussion groups, for example, during the A&E fees furore and found at least seven sensible non-monetary suggestions on resolving the problem. Even if these methods are time-consuming to implement, we should not totally discount them. Not every policy needs to be implemented overnight and we can explore these options slowly. We took one year to persuade Singaporeans to accept GST. We have six months to educate them on the benefits of the ERP. I know the Ministry of Communications has been working very hard to win support from the public and has been working behind the scene with special groups to justify and fine-tune the ERP plans. Like them, I hope other Ministries will not stinge on the efforts to educate the public on their own future policies. Even with increased A&E charges, it later appeared (as the debate heated up last year) that the proposed increased fees to deter excessive use of A&E for non-emergency cases was actually justifiable because the increases were lower than the costs that the hospitals were incurring. If that were so, why did not the Ministry take them through to the public in the first place, painstakingly perhaps, so as to win the hearts and minds of the public? Why could not they do it upfront rather than as a kind of afterthought?”
“I am, however, not criticising any of them specifically, but I am merely raising a matter of broad principle. Monetary disincentives are painful but, I submit, not necessarily the most effective measure to deal with certain matters, such as the overuse of services with inelastic demand - some would say that would include A&E services - or to channel university students to do courses in which they have no aptitude nor interest. Policy makers should not just go for the easiest route but should look to more creative, non-monetary options if they wish to modify Singaporean behaviour along the lines of what they have determined are good for the public at large. Money as a policy tool may often be effective but is always uncreative. It can become the panacea and "easy way out" for all sorts of things that Government wants to encourage or discourage. In so doing, we invariably create a very materialistic and, if I might say so, uncouth society where "only money talks", because, in this case, the Government is the unchallenged leader and the trend-setter. Is that good ultimately for our society when we are all trying our level best to produce more volunteers and promote a more civic society? Money is too blunt a tool even if it is effective. We should perhaps ban all Government officials from suggesting direct fiscal solutions till they have proposed at least two other non-monetary options first. If monetary incentives and disincentives are indeed the only justifiable option, we should require our officials and the Government to spend a little more time garnering public support and culling public feedback before the policy is cast in stone.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, once again we meet in this House to discuss the Government's policies for the new fiscal year and the monetary means they are using to implement their policies. The Singapore Government is a strong believer in the effectiveness of market forces as a means to allocate scarce resources. The pricing mechanism appears to be particularly effective in regulating demand and supply of goods and services, except where there are monopolies, duopolies and cartels. The price mechanism is, in fact, such an efficient tool to modify Singaporean behaviour that its wide use has earned us the dubious reputation of being a "fine" city. Every unacceptable social behaviour has its price, from littering to spitting to smoking in public places. For better or worse, monetary disincentives do hurt our pockets and monetary incentives do cheer up the masses, especially in these increasingly hard times - and Singaporeans have responded accordingly. So we jack up university fees in arts courses so that people will go into engineering; Accident and Emergency clinic charges so that people with non-emergencies will turn to other clinics; and increase taxi fares and Additional Registration Fees so that people who do buy cars really do so because they need to. In this way, we curb high demand for limited resources and channel demand to under-utilised facilities in the national interest and to promote Government priorities, and I think that is a good thing. In so doing, however, I believe we have become too trigger-happy in using price mechanisms. It has become the Jack of all Ministries and Master of all civil servants. Some of these incentives are present in this year's Budget.”
“I am coming to the question, Sir. It appears that the private bus owners have now indicated that they are not interested in coming into the school bus market. Will the Minister care to enlighten us on this?”
“Sir, the LTA has declared that one of the objectives of the ERP is really to free up the school bus market and that there will be more competition so that there will be no possibility of cartels fixing prices at unreasonably high levels. It appears that ---”
“I expect this would, of course, cover the broadcast and the filming of election rallies and other political events as news. But I would like to argue that films "discussing" current events (and not merely "reporting" them), such as TV talk shows, or shows which contain obviously unbiased material in an attempt to inform or educate the public (as in many documentaries we see), are also not political. I await the Minister's views on these points.”
“I have discussed at length my views on "obscenity" in the earlier debate on the Undesirable Publications (Amendment) Bill and received an answer from the Minister and so I will not repeat them here. Next, I would turn to clause 2(g). This paragraph inserts a new subsection (2) to section 2 of the principal Films Act. A film is directed to a political end if it is, inter alia, "intended or likely to affect voting in any election or national referendum". I fear the words are overly broad. There are all sorts of elections in Singapore, including elections at annual general meetings of societies and companies and elections on residents' views in relation to upgrading projects and perhaps even elections to choose popular TV commercials. I know the Minister probably has in mind Parliamentary and Presidential elections only and would ask if he could amend or clarify this accordingly. All the other references to "any election" in the new subsection (2)(b) should also be similarly construed. A film dealing with "an issue of public controversy" is also political under the amendment Bill. In most instances, this may be right. Yet, with utmost respect, Sir, I think the words are again over-broad. The question whether cloning of humans should be made illegal is "an issue of public controversy"; so too is the question whether owners of pets who take long holidays should be allowed to leave their pets unattended. Would films on these topics be political? I submit that they are not. For the avoidance of doubt, the Minister may wish to clarify this point. Additionally, could the Minister also consider amending or clarifying the provisions of the new subsection (3) which states that films solely for the purpose of reporting current events are not political.”
“We can actually pull off the advertisement but, as they say, the harm is already done. So I support this Bill to keep political debate to arenas that we are familiar with. Nevertheless, I have some points which I hope the Minister will clarify. Firstly, clause 2(b) introduces a new definition of "electronic transmission". I see that this definition excludes "broadcasting". Unlike the Undesirable Publications (Amendment) Bill passed at the last sitting of this House, there is no definition of "broadcasting" here. In our laws, there is the definition in the Copyright Act and a definition of sorts in the Singapore Broadcasting Authority (SBA) Act. The Copyright Act definition is slightly archaic as it refers to "broadcasting by wireless telegraphy". The SBA Act is more up-to-date. I would take it that the meaning of "broadcasting" here is the same as that in the more modern SBA Act. Whichever definition is adopted, however, I believe the new Bill does not appear to cover the use of telecommunication lines to do a computerised "broadcast" to all Internet users, for example, which should be an act penalised under this new Bill if the films or pictures sent are obscene or of an unauthorised political nature. Secondly, clause 2(f) introduces a definition of "supply". I know the Minister has said that it is an adaptation from the New Zealand provision. With due respect, Sir, I find this definition verbose and incomprehensible. I would like to commend the use of plain English in statutes and hope that more care will be put into drafting such legal provisions in future. Thirdly, clause 2(d) gives a new definition to "obscene".”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, let me say, at the outset, that I support the Films (Amendment) Bill. Modern technology allows for the production of films which is a result of camera tricks and, worse, the digital manipulation of figures and pictures. We have seen the movie Forrest Gump in which the actor Tom Hanks is seen in the film very realistically shaking hands with dead Presidents and former Presidents of the USA. We have seen other examples of digital manipulation of advertisements in which a very plump lady suddenly becomes very slim. And I think we also have seen examples, even without digital manipulation, of pictures which appear to present certain ideas and these ideas obviously are false. It could, for example, make a person look sinister under certain lightings and you could then persuade the audience that this is a sinister person and in the political broadcast, it would be to persuade people not to elect him. It is therefore prudent and cautious of us to exclude a medium like this from the hurly-burly of politics and that we should restrict political debate to arenas that can be controlled, in the sense that publications and rally speeches can be controlled. There will always be opportunities for rebuttal and there will be no opportunities for making manipulated pictures like that. In my work as the President of the Consumers' Association of Singapore, very often we have to deal with advertisements, particularly TV commercials, which we find objectionable because they make certain allusions or present certain pictures which lead the viewer into wrong conclusions. But very often, when we approach the Advertising Standards Authority of Singapore to pull off the advertisement, the sale has been clinched and it is too late for us to stop it.”
“Sir, I would like to ask the Minister whether he would consider calling a press conference of the experts who can perhaps brief the public and the press on some of these issues.”
“My question was more on control measures. Could the Minister assure us on the control measures for this because it is mass produced?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill, but I have two simple points to make. Firstly, the new sections 34C and 34D refer to "such electronic or computerised or other facilities". Because of the ejusdem generis principle of statutory interpretation, I think this is not sufficiently broad to cover technologies which may use, for example, optics (or light), microwave, radar, sonic or other non-electronic telecommunication media. Our ERP devices would be using all these technologies too, I suppose, and in fact there is a word which would be broad enough to cover all these technologies. It is a word which is used in section 65 of the Evidence Act. I refer to the word "telematic" and would urge the Minister to consider inserting that word in front of the word "electronic". Secondly, I refer to the new section 139A and would like the Minister to clarify that "an official facsimile" of a signature would have certain control measures and safeguards to prevent fraudulent notices.”
“Instinctively, many people would hesitate to call full frontal nudity per se as "evil". It is easier to note what is "lewd" or "indecent" or "morally unseemly" in specific circumstances. I would like therefore to update the definition of "obscenity" to something that is easier to apply, such as the words "such as to lead right minded people to consider it lewd, depraved, corrupt or morally unseemly". Perhaps, in addition, we should also have a list of criteria such as in the new section 2B(2) to help the court or the Controller decide what is indeed obscene. Sir, I support the Bill. EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) Resolved, That the proceedings on the item of business under discussion and the remaining items on the Order Paper for today be exempted at this day's sitting from the provisions of Standing Order No. 1. - [Mr Wong Kan Seng]. UNDESIRABLE PUBLICATIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL”
“What I need to say here, I may have to say it again in the debate on the Films (Amendment) Bill. Suffice it to say, it was Bertrand Russell, the sceptic, who said "it is obvious that obscenity is not a term capable of legal definition. In the practice of the courts, it means anything that shocks the magistrate". I suppose we do not want such an arbitrary standard. As I recall, an American judge was once asked to define "obscenity". I do not remember his exact words, so allow me to paraphrase. He said in effect that obscenity is not easy to define. Nevertheless, it is like an elephant. "I know it when I see it". Our legislative draftsman has boldly proposed a definition. Obscenity is defined, "such as to tend to deprave or corrupt persons who are likely, having regard to all relevant circumstances, to read, see or hear the matter .". This definition of obscenity is archaic, or at least in archaic terminology. It comes from the 1868 case of R v. Hicklin, words, which were further developed, I understand, in the definition section of the UK's Obscene Publications Act 1959. Furthermore, it is too narrow in our modern age. Many things which the majority of Singaporeans regard as obscene may not necessarily be seen as "depraved" by some sectors. The definition, however, requires all who see, hear or read the publication to consider it "depraved" or in other words "evil". With the decline of moral values, even so-called family magazines and newspapers display full frontal nudes in the name of art or news. Many would still say this is obscene, but not all the same people may actually condemn it as "depravity". Depravity has very negative and ominous overtones, and is reserved today for some truly obnoxious and heinous behaviour.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to deal with some matters of definition and address some very specific issues in this Bill. This new Bill is meant to cover new computer technology and the word "broadcast" is to have the same meaning as that word in the Copyright Act, and "broadcasting" has a similar corresponding meaning. There in the Copyright Act the word is defined as "broadcast by wireless telegraphy". Electronic transmission is defined in this Bill as "excludes broadcasting" while supply of publication is defined by the Bill as covering electronic transmission. This leaves an area of electronic transmission where messages are broadcast, that is, they are sent to several parties with one press of the button. I hope the Minister would confirm whether or not such broadcast materials as, for example, e-mail or fax, are subject to the provisions of this Bill. Second, the word "publication" is defined to mean "any book, magazine or periodical, whether in manuscript or final form". As far as form goes, Mr Speaker, Sir, electronic books and magazines are today feasible. Are these in "final form"? It is, I submit, necessary to add after the words "final form" some words like "and published in whatever medium, whether tangible or otherwise", to clearly cover Internet publications and so-called "E-zines" if this be the purpose. Third, the word "supply" is defined. A similar word is defined in a slightly different way in the next Bill that will be tabled before the House at a subsequent sitting, and that is the Films (Amendment) Bill. I would like to ask if the two definitions which serve the same purpose essentially be worded in a similar way, please. Fourth, the word "obscene" is defined in this Bill, and again this word is also defined in the Films (Amendment) Bill.”
“I would like to ask the Minister whether it is not true that some kind of reporting has already been made to the Public Accounts Committee of this House.”
“Bill considered in Committee. [Mr Speaker in the Chair] Clause 1 -”
“Thirdly, I understand that a copy of the order that is made will also be served on the parties, so that if you are impersonated, your address is still there, your name is still there, so you still will get a copy of the order made, and you know that you are impersonated because somebody has admitted your claim. So this should take care of that point. Finally, I think if all else fails, Dr Toh will know that the Small Claims process has improved so much that the time period between the time you get the notice and the consultation and hearing, now it is all within one month. In other words, the one-month period, even if all these other measures that I have mentioned fail, will not prejudice the consumer of which I think Dr Toh is concerned. The last point he mentioned is why not expand the jurisdiction of the Small Claims Tribunals. Let us take this a step at a time. I think he will know that last year we just expanded it. Currently it is $10,000 and $20,000 if both parties consent. So that is already upping the limit from the previous limit of $2,000 and $5,000. So I think we should take this gradually. We do not want to lose sight of the objectives behind the Small Claims Tribunals which is to ensure that small claims which do not require examination of complex legal issues can be dealt with quickly by Referees and Registrars. So even in terms of the type of claims that can be heard by the Tribunals, we are very careful not to expand it too quickly. I think we should let this new innovation take off and then we can assess over time. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee].”
“For example, he mentioned clause 4, the new section 18A, about admitting by, for example, telephone. The safeguard here will be with the notice of consultation that will be received by the respondent, there will be a secret pin number which he will then have to use if he telephones in to admit the claim. This will be in addition to the other particulars which are peculiar to him, eg, IC number, name, and so forth. Even for consultation and hearing by these new means, we are not jumping straightaway to a situation where you can have consultation or hearing from your home. The idea here is that the parties would be at the Small Claims Tribunals locality, either the main locality at Apollo Centre or the regional centre. So even if there is such consultation by these means, there will still be verification of identity of the parties by the officials at either the regional centre or the main centre. One other point that he has mentioned is about the one-month period. He says that if a person is impersonated, he may not know that he has been impersonated and if the one-month period runs from the time the order is made, it may be out of time. First, as I have said, safeguards are in place to ensure that there is no impersonation and I am told that this will be rare, but, in any case, we should provide for it. Secondly, the one-month period is not cast in stone. Because if you look at the words, the Registrar can allow for a further period, so that should there be unfairness or injustice, I am sure the Registrar would exercise his discretion judiciously.”
“Additionally, claims by people who have bought time-shares, because time-shares hover in this twilight zone between services and property. And presently people who are taken advantage of cannot go to the Small Claims Tribunals to advocate their cases. Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, I thank Dr Toh for first supporting the Bill and also making some observations on the Bill. Let me respond to these observations. Sir, the first point is a point for clarification. He asked whether the term "or any other electronic means" should be read restrictively in accordance with the eiusdem generis rule. Let me first say that we are taking this one step at a time. We will first start with telephones and videophones, and I think we will use those for some time to assess how they work. The idea here is to provide for other electronic means that may emerge in the future. Therefore, for the sake of clarity, let me say now that we do not want to circumscribe the new means to which this process can be adapted, should there be new features in the future, which can be used to good effect to achieve the objects of this Bill. But there must be safeguards as well. I think that is the point he has also made. So whatever new means that are used should garner convenience but at the same time must be balanced with adequate safeguards. So we will start with the telephone, videophone, and perhaps some time in the future, maybe Internet can be used. So this is the purport of the Bill. Secondly, he talked about safeguards. I think that is a very good point. In fact, this was something we put our minds to. Because even as we have this new approach, new technology, we want to ensure that it will not be abused.”
“I would thus call on the Minister to promulgate some regulations by laying down the procedures and standards of security and authentication for such consultations and admissions, and describe the circumstances in which such electronic means will be accepted or rejected for the purposes of the Small Claims Tribunals. Under new section 18A(1), admission of a claim can be made orally by telephone and I would similarly ask the Minister to mention the minimum standards and procedures of security for such means. As to new sections 17A(4), 18A(6) and 22A(4), an application to set aside an order of the Registrar must be made within one month of the order. I am concerned about this because I am afraid that in many cases before the Small Claims Tribunals, it involves consumers who may not be very savvy as to the ways of court and the ways of the law and therefore may actually be at a disadvantage. For example, if an order has been made, the party that obtains the order could hold on to the order for more than a month and then serve it on the unsuspecting consumer, by which time it would be too late for him to set aside and he would have to first ask for leave from the tribunals before he can set aside the order. And this additional process will actually deter him. I would ask if the Minister could consider regulations that would perhaps remove this difficulty. Lastly, I would just like to mention that perhaps in future amendment to the Small Claims Tribunals Act the Minister could also look into expansion of the jurisdiction, for example, in house renovations below $40,000 which is really the kind of renovation that small householders of 3-rooms and 4-rooms would actually do as a basic renovation and these claims are presently not covered.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the introduction of this amendment Bill. I would say that this is very good progress in terms of making available the technology to aid the claims of consumers and other small claimants. I wish to make some observations. First, the new section 17A(1) deals with telephone, videophone or any other electronic means. It states that these means would be allowed for the proceedings of the Small Claims Tribunals. Under the proposed section 22A, some hearings would also be made using this new modern means of electronic communications. But by the principles of statutory interpretation, the so-called eiusdem generis principle, general words used in a statute will be limited to the same class of communications, ie, in this case, types of telephones, because of the words "telephone" and "videophone". This will exclude audio-conferencing where the telephone is not used directly, or video-conferencing where the medium of conveying the message is not a telephone line but, say, a cable or broadcasting and satellite media, or even a set top box placed on top of a television. I would like to ask if the Minister would state that such a limitation is not really the intention of the Bill. Secondly, some electronic means are obviously unsuitable for a consultation before the Registrar. So the words should not be too broad. Such electronic means could include e-mail or even if it is instantaneous e-mail, perhaps even fax machines and other modes of telecommunication where the authentication of the other party is susceptible to fraud and impersonation.”
“They were Government fee increases I am talking about, Sir.”