Wong Kan Seng
Singapore
“We all want a better future for our children and the future generations. Amid the debates, let us not lose sight of what we are working for – we are working for the benefit and future of Singaporeans. Not for growth targets, not for foreigners, but for Singaporeans.”
“Mrs Mildred Tan also suggested doing a longitudinal study on the impact of new citizens on Singapore. I am told that there is a periodic study on the perception of integration and rootedness of Singaporeans and PRs. A study is now ongoing too.”
“All they need to do is simply declare that they meet the residential criteria. EASING IN US ECONOMY (Impact on Singapore) 9. Ms Sylvia Lim asked the Senior Minister what will be the expected impact on the Singapore economy arising from the US Federal Reserve's announcement on 3rd November 2010 of a "quantitative easing" of the US economy…”
“Well, from the data I have here, 553 registered to vote before the 2006 GE and this is the data I have but Ms Lim may be right. There may be 1,000-odd that Ms Lim had mentioned. From what I am told now, we have 1,325 Singaporean overseas who are eligible to register to vote have registered.”
“But, as I said, there are so many other possibilities that they could come in and there could also be many possibilities that we could have missed and they have entered or left Singapore. LAND SWAP AGREEMENT FOR KTM STATION AND RAILWAY LANDS 2.”
“They are also recruiting people by offering them scholarships. So, we hope more of our companies can do that. Hopefully they come here to work for a while and, if they like our place, they may want to settle down. This is a place which they can think about. POPULATION AND TALENT DIVISION 5. Assoc. Prof.”
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“Therefore, apart from looking at those who were directly or indirectly responsible for the escape, the Director of ISD and the Commissioner of Police have looked at all relevant officers who may be liable further up the chain of command, regardless of their rank or grade. The WRDC Superintendent and the WRDC Administration staff report to a Command Director in ISD. This Command Director is the supervising officer, or the ISD Officer-in-Charge (OIC), whom I said earlier was replaced along with the officers identified in the COI report and CID investigations as being responsible for the escape of Mas Selamat. The ISD OIC is a statutory appointment specified in the Detention Centre regulations. The Superintendent of WRDC reports to him on the smooth running of WRDC. The current ISD OIC for WRDC holds a superscale rank equivalent to a Senior Assistant Commissioner of Police or a Brigadier General in the SAF. He is a Command Director who reports directly to the Director of ISD. He oversees a directorate of several distinct functional divisional units. WRDC is one of these functional units. The COI found that the ISD OIC had properly discharged his duties and was not at fault. The COI's view is that it is necessary for the ISD OIC to delegate his statutory responsibility, given his full-time job as a Command Director. The COI observed that the ISD OIC had in fact made several improvements to the WRDC. He instituted proper systems and procedures and also recruited a full-time Superintendent with the requisite experience and qualifications to take charge of the administration of WRDC. I accepted the COI's assessment that the ISD OIC is not at fault. Nevertheless, I decided to relieve this Command Director of the ISD OIC appointment. This was done on 24th April 2008.”
“The Special Duty Operative's supervisor failed to obtain a proper security assessment of the detainee's use of the Family Visitation Block toilet. He was issued a letter of reprimand and relieved of all supervisory duties. This supervisor is a senior officer holding the equivalent rank of Inspector of Police or Lieutenant in the SAF. The letter of reprimand will be entered into his service records and will have a negative bearing on his future career, such as his performance appraisal, promotion and awards. Two other WRDC officers have been served with departmental letters of warning. These will be lodged as adverse entries in their service files and will have a bearing on their future careers. One of the two is the Technical Officer who was responsible for the CCTV upgrading at WRDC. Although the new CCTV system had not yet been commissioned at the time of the incident, he should have exercised due care to ensure that the vendor had correctly carried out the instructions so that the system was recording. The Chief Warder is the eighth officer who has been disciplined. She was served a letter of warning. It was the Chief Warder who approached the Superintendent to allow the detainees to use the Family Visitation Block toilet. Although this officer was not directly involved in the incident, as an experienced officer, she should have considered the security implications of allowing detainees to use the Family Visitation Block toilet. Sir, I had said in this House on 21st April that, in ascertaining accountability, we would examine the roles not just of the junior officers but also the supervisory and management levels of WRDC.”
“The Deputy Superintendent of WRDC has been demoted in rank with a corresponding pay cut. They are the two most senior officers in charge of the ground management of WRDC. They hold Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) equivalent ranks of Lieutenant-Colonel and Major respectively. The daily administration and operations of WRDC come under the direct charge of the Superintendent, the most senior officer on the ground. The Deputy Superintendent is the next most senior officer assisting the Superintendent to manage the work of WRDC staff and ensure their compliance with established procedures. These two officers have been held accountable for the lack of supervision over their subordinates implicated which resulted in lapses that enabled Mas Selamat to escape. The Superintendent has also been charged and held accountable for failing to take appropriate action on discovering that the ventilation window in the Family Visitation Block toilet was unsecured. He should have instructed the renovation contractor to install grilles on the ventilation window. It was a serious error on his part instead to order that the handle of the window be sawn off, in the mistaken belief that this was a sufficient security measure. The Special Duty Operative who handled the family visit when Mas Selamat escaped has been dismissed from service. She failed to take immediate and decisive action when alerted by the guards, which could have prevented the escape of Mas Selamat. She also did not observe proper procedures, for example, in the accurate registration of clothes that were personal to the detainee and WRDC-issued ones. That was why Mas Selamat was able to wear more than one layer of clothes on the day of his escape.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, Dr Lam Pin Min asked for an update on the disciplinary measures taken against the officers responsible for Mas Selamat bin Kastari's escape from the Whitley Road Detention Centre. As I informed Members on 21st April 2008, I had ordered the Commissioner of Police and the Director of the Internal Security Department (ISD) to investigate the operational lapses related to the escape and to ascertain individual accountabilities. I also stated that even while this process took its course, I had instructed the Director of ISD to replace several officers at the WRDC whom the Committee of Inquiry (COI) and the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) had identified as being responsible for the escape of Mas Selamat. In addition, subsequent to my Statement on 21st April, I also replaced the supervising officer in ISD whom the Superintendent and the WRDC Administration reported to. I will explain his role later and why I replaced him. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is an established framework for the disciplinary action inquiry process. This includes allowing the officer to defend himself against the charges, and giving the officer the right to appeal, if he is found guilty by a disciplinary body. The Commissioner of Police and the Director of ISD have reported to me that they have completed their respective disciplinary inquiry processes against a total of eight officers. The Police has charged the two Gurkha Contingent (GC) guards who escorted Mas Selamat. They have pleaded guilty and have been demoted in rank. ISD has charged six officers. The six officers have acknowledged their culpability and accepted the sanctions meted out. Let me now elaborate on them. The Superintendent of WRDC has been dismissed from service.”
“Traffic Police also conducts road safety talks for pre-school, primary school and secondary school students. These talks cover road safety tips, including safe and responsible cycling habits. In 2007, a total of 21 such school talks were conducted involving some 16,000 children. In addition, Traffic Police held eight road safety exhibitions at various primary and secondary schools providing safety tips for cyclists. Finally, let me say that whilst motorists are advised to pay extra attention and keep a look out for vulnerable groups of road users such as cyclists, cyclists must also recognise their own vulnerability and do their part by riding safely, carefully and obeying traffic rules at all times. ERRORS IN MANUFACTURING DATA 33. Mr Seah Kian Peng asked the Minister for Trade and Industry in light of the correction by EDB in the January manufacturing data from 6.9% to 11.7% growth (a) whether he will explain how this error in its January manufacturing data occurred; (b) what does EDB mean by "computation error in the application of the price deflator data"; and (c) whether this was a human or computer error.”
“Cyclists who commit offences under the Road Traffic Act, or breach any road traffic rules such as those under the Road Traffic (Bicycles) Rules and the (Expressway Traffic) Rules are taken to task by Traffic Police. Breach of a road traffic rule is an offence under section 131 of the Road Traffic Act, which attracts a maximum penalty of a $1,000 fine or three months’ imprisonment for the first offence, and a $2,000 fine or six months’ imprisonment for a second or subsequent offence. In cases where the cyclist conducts himself so recklessly that endangers the safety of others, he may also be punished under the Penal Code for acting rashly or negligently so as to endanger human life or the personal safety of others. In 2007, a total of 340 summonses were issued to errant cyclists. The bulk of these, 190 summonses or 56%, were issued to cyclists for failing to ride in an orderly manner. This includes changing lane without due care, failing to have proper look out and failing to give way to traffic with right of way. Other common infringements by cyclists are riding on the expressways (17%), riding against traffic flow (11%) and failing to conform to red light signal (7%). There are several road safety education programmes that target young cyclists. The Road Safety Community Park set up in 1981 educates our Primary School students on road safety by their participation in traffic games in a simulated road traffic environment. The students are given road safety tips as well as imparted with skill training on cycling by driving instructors from the driving centres. In 2007, about 150 of such training sessions were conducted at the Road Safety Community Park involving some 32,000 students.”
“For example, bicycle thefts around Pasir Ris dropped significantly from 34 reported cases in 2005 to just eight and seven reported cases in 2006 and 2007 respectively since the implementation of the bicycle engraving scheme by Pasir Ris NPC. Over at Toa Payoh East, the engraving and registration initiative implemented by Toa Payoh NPC resulted in a 50% fall in bicycle theft cases from 42 cases in 2006 to 21 cases in 2007. Bicycle thefts are often opportunistic crimes which can be prevented if bicycle owners are more vigilant. Bicycle owners should take preventive measures such as using strong and reliable locks to secure their bicycles and also not leave their bicycles in isolated or poorly lit places. RECKLESS CYCLISTS (Action against) 32. Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs (a) what action has been taken against reckless cyclists in Singapore; and (b) whether his Ministry has plans to reach out to schools to educate young cyclists on safe and responsible cycling habits.”
“Over the last five years, an average of 590 cases of bicycle theft were reported each year, with a peak of 790 cases in 2005 and a low of 580 cases last year. For the first two months this year, there were about 80 cases of bicycle theft reported, which is the lowest number when compared to the corresponding periods from 2005 to 2007. Bicycle thefts have been on a downward trend since 2005. Bicycle thefts typically take place at common areas in public housing estates such as void decks, corridors, staircase landings, lift landings as well as at bicycle bays located at MRT and LRT stations. In most bicycle theft cases, the culprits tampered with the bicycle chains or locks used to secure the bicycles. There were also cases where opportunistic perpetrators took off with bicycles that were left unattended or unsecured. Police has been working with Town Councils to install CCTV cameras at HDB common areas in phases, for crime prevention and to improve the sense of security of residents. We have also worked with HDB to incorporate a security and crime prevention package in the list of upgrading options available for residents' selection under the HDB Upgrading Programme. HDB residents now have the choice to opt to have CCTVs at their neighbourhood as part of their selection of upgrading features. I encourage residents to opt for this package. In addition, Police has been providing free bicycle engraving services since 2005 at selected Neighbourhood Police Centres (NPCs) where there are a higher concentration of bicycle user population. Engraving of unique serial ID numbers onto bicycles has proven to be an effective crime deterrent measure and has led to the recovery of stolen bicycles which were engraved.”
“Let me clarify my remark about using tracker dogs the next time. I do not mean to say that if there is an escape the next time we will use tracker dogs. But I am sure there will be other situations where we need to deploy tracker dogs and indeed they could well be of great use to the police for all kinds of purposes, apart from the ones that they already know. On assuring the public that the day-to-day operations will not be compromised, indeed, I have explained in my Statement that we deploy our resources for dedicated searches and extensive searches in the forest but now we do more targeted searches bearing in mind that we have equally important things to do in protecting Singapore, solving crimes, preventing others from doing harm to us, and so on. Those functions will continue and while we step up this operation, staff will be rotated, our job will continue to be done and we will continue to fulfil our mission. As Members have read in the papers too, there were crimes that were committed and the crimes were solved quite quickly. I do not need to go into details about which particular case but I think the one that caught our attention most was the abduction of the woman for money. ADJOURNMENT”
“Sir, I am no expert in tracker dogs. I could only inform Members what I am advised by professionals and, as I have explained the moment the escape was discovered, the guards turned out and searched the area. There were lots of people on the ground and I am also advised by professional opinion that in those situations no additional value would be added by tracker dogs. I am also told that tracker dogs were deployed in certain locations in the vicinity of the Whitley Road Detention Centre. Mr Chiam's first question on whether "heads will roll", as I have said there will be disciplinary proceedings, and we must let that proceedings run its course and those who were found accountable and liable will have to answer for those mistakes or lapses.”
“May I ask Mr Chiam whether he is an expert on tracker dogs?”
“Sir, instead of telling me about this ground speculation, may I ask Mr Low whether he believes that indeed he thought Mas Selamat has died?”
“Certain things needed to be done on the ground, which was why they took a bit longer time from the time that they were alerted to put up that 100% check.”
“When I mentioned lack of commonsense, I think we have to see this in context, and I have explained this on several occasions that those people who were there operated on the wrong assumption. For a guard not to have gotten into the toilet to find out what had happened to Mas Selamat, his wrong assumption was that the whole place, including the Family Visitation Block, is a secure facility. Indeed, it is supposed to be, except for the toilet that was not grilled. Why is it that the other guards also did not stop him from closing the toilet door? Again, most probably it was because of this assumption that they thought that the Family Visitation Block is secure. The only thing they did not take note of was that the toilet window was not secure. Similarly, for the other staff. It was not a question of lack of empowerment that they did not do it. I think the guards were told to limit their communication with the detainees and, somehow, that translated into the situation that we had, that they do not even get in and find out what happened to Mas Selamat but instead asked the SDO and the SDO did not do it herself or even asked the guard to do that, but had to ask the Assistant Case Officer. So these lapses, in a way, contributed to a loss of time in the discovery of Mas Selamat's escape. I mentioned the timing when the checkpoints were closed. I said that CTSU, which is our counter-terrorism unit at our checkpoints, was alerted – I think I mentioned 4.30 pm. But even at 4.30 pm, that means for the officers who were operating at the checkpoints, they were already checking on people. The 100% check was instituted at 5.15 pm, not 5.30 pm. Why did it take so long?”
“That is why when the call for a guard turn-out and stand-to alert situation, they were able to get out to the correct position. They probably have never in their imagination thought that anybody would attempt to escape, because nobody has escaped from the detention centre. But MHA does have red teaming teams and programmes to go around testing all these agencies. Even for red teaming, it is also to see whether people can intrude into their system or not, be it a computer system or a physical security structure or place like the airport. So they do have red teaming exercises to test how alert and vigilant those people who are guarding the respective places, such as the airport or the checkpoints, are in detecting intrusions or people who try to break into their system. Of course, there is an area which we need to review, that is to stress test how people break out of the system. This matter will be taken care of.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, indeed, today I have disclosed a lot of information. That was what I promised that I would do, and we are not running away from the problem. We want to recognise the problem, solve it and then move ahead to make sure that things like this will not happen again. We will review the whole process, the physical security of the place and take all the necessary actions to ensure that an escape like this will not take place again. This is the way the Government has been dealing with issues – to get to the bottom of a problem, find the cause of it, solve it and then take action to ensure that similar problems do not recur. There is no point ducking the issue. There is no point covering this up. It will only do us more harm. And I think the approach that we have taken, including communicating with the press or the public, it is a process which we need to improve. That is the way we should be open with our people. We can then get our people to work with the Government to deal with the situation that we are facing. Did the WRDC do stress tests like that to see whether people can break out or not, or even to break into the place? There were plans, but there were no exercises to test this. But from now on, they will make sure that they will conduct such tests and exercises, not just by themselves, but also with the other Home Team agencies. The prisons do have a system like that. In fact, they do have systems to test stresses to the prisons' physical security, and they do have plans to deal with an escape, and not just on the immediate surroundings. The system that the WRDC security operated on was to prevent attacks from outside, ie, prevent people from raiding the place and trying to rescue the detainees. Those plans they have.”
“There was no clear indication at that time, although he could have worn that and he could have left it there. It was not after some time, through DNA analysis, that determined that that baju kurong belonged to Mas Selamat. On the issue of telling the public that he was wearing his baju kurong, yet, the Police found one, I think that is something that is beyond me. I think the officer concerned who put up such information must have a lot of confusing information at that time. And in this whole process, sometimes they did not have the accurate information. And as I said earlier, the ISD and the Police thought that they could not give out too much information too quickly because they needed to get the information checked. Unfortunately, sometimes, such information, even when communicated, turned out to be incorrect.”
“Sir, on whether there is a SOP to require the detainee to hand over his detention centre clothes or not, there is such a SOP. In fact, the procedure is such that when the detainee changes into his civilian clothes, he is supposed to hand back his detention centre clothes to the SDO. That was not done. That was why it was a lapse and that was why we think Mas Selamat could have worn another set of clothes, apart from his baju kurong, and that was why even after flipping his pants over the ledge, he could still run away because he had another pair of pants. Why he took off his pants? I think the guard at that time probably did not know why he took off his pants, and it did not occur to the guard why Mas Selamat needed to take off his pants while in the urinal. To the guard, he might have thought that for whatever reasons, Mas Selamat needed to take off his pants. Why did the guard not have the common sense? Indeed, that was lacking. If he had noticed that Mas Selamat had taken such a long time, because Mas Selamat was under escort, he should have straightaway gone into the toilet to find out what Mas Selamat was up to. But, unfortunately, he did not. Why did the guards allow Mas Selamat to keep the door closed and, despite repeated tests by Mas Selamat on other guards, they also let him do the same thing? I think some of them must have come under the impression that it is a completely secure facility, not noticing that the toilet ventilation window did not have a grille. On the confusing information about what he was wearing, of course, the part about his baju kurong and pants, etc, I think Police needed to determine indeed that baju kurong belonged to Mas Selamat.”
“And, again, that has to be changed over time too when they receive a new set of detainees in future. On whether there are SOPs to prevent the female Special Duty Operative (SDO) from intervening in the process, firstly, there were guards there. Even if she did not do it herself, she could have asked the guards to get in. But, instead, this officer decided to call for the assistance of the Assistant Case Officer, and I cannot explain why. Therefore, the Director will have to examine all these issues and decide what appropriate disciplinary action is to be taken against those who are involved.”
“Whether a person is a detainee or prisoner, there are certain basic standards that we have to observe to treat the detainee or prisoner humanely. While our prison condition is sparse, not like some other prisons that can have access to television and including selection of menu for the food, our prisoners are treated humanely. Similarly, for detainees. There are basic standards that we have to follow. And the key purpose is preventive detention so that the terrorists like those in the JI group can be prevented from doing harm to Singapore, and that is the primary objective. In the process, ISD would be able to extract information from them and that requires a certain level of communication and cooperation. Therefore, so long as there is hope for the case officer to get information from the detainee, we have to treat that person in a way that will ensure that cooperation. Of course, there are also those who do not cooperate. And for those who do not cooperate, then the ways that they are treated will also be different from those who cooperate. We must leave it to the officers themselves to judge to what extent they want to extend certain privileges, or whatever, to the detainee concerned, and that is when he would be able to use his position and the ability to dispense such privileges to manage the particular detainee. On whether the operating culture needs to be changed, from time to time, they will have to review this. We are not saying that this is a hard and fast way and therefore we have to stick by this rule. I think from the years of experience that the ISD officers had in dealing with detainees, they would have changed the method of operation, depending on the kind of people they deal with.”
“Third question first. I think the situation for Took Leng How was quite different from this case. Took Leng How was able to exploit a gap in the ICA Checkpoint in Woodlands and, as a result, he was able to leave Singapore and went to Malaysia. Again, that was also due to non-following of procedures when the gate was supposed to have been closed. And learning from that experience, the situation like that should not happen again. How could Mas Selamat take such a short time and leave? Was it the complacency that had set in? I would explain that that was indeed the case, that the operating culture then in the WRDC was slackening and, as a result, those who were involved in making sure that he was brought from one place to another safely and securely and those who were involved in making sure that he did not make any attempt to leave without being noticed did not do a good job, and that problem will be solved after the new procedures are instituted.”
“That was because there was information that there was a person who looked like Mas Selamat in the vicinity and got into Malcolm Park. That was why we had Police officers and later on, SAF men turning up to search the site.”
“Sir, let us be quite clear about this – the fact that we have visitation by family members is not the reason that contributed to Mas Selamat's escape. What contributed to Mas Selamat's escape – let me repeat – is a series of lapses by the officers concerned. Family visits have been taking place for some time. When a detainee meets with his family, he is always under constant watch. In fact, they are always under constant watch by the Case Officer. So, nothing passes between them. And, again, depending on the level of cooperation that the detainee has given to the Case Officer, not all detainees have direct physical contact with the family. For some, they would, at most, be able to talk to the family behind a screen. Therefore, they would not be able to exchange or pass anything between them. For those who could have physical contact, sitting face to face across the table, nothing could change hands between them because there are always people who will watch over this process. So, why do we allow visitation by family members? As I have explained, it is part of the rehabilitation. We want the person to be able to see his family, to be able to learn that he has gone the wrong way, and that he has people to be responsible for and therefore, hopefully, we can get him to be more cooperative and in time to be able to be released from detention. The massive turnout to search for Mas Selamat in Malcolm Park and just around the schools there was not a public assurance exercise. The Government does not resort to such gimmicks to assure the public just by turning out a lot of our soldiers and Police. We do not do such things. Why were they there in the first place?”
“In fact, there are those good-spirited people out there who said that they would offer a bounty for Mas Selamat. Police has no objection to them wanting to do this good work. But for the Government, and for the Police, we do not think we should go along that path. For the moment we start, what money will we award for solving heinous crimes, like a murder, for example? It will not end. But I think that policy is correct, we have to work at it, and we have to get the public behind us. For the years that Home Team agencies have spent in building relations with the community, I think that relationship is very strong.”
“For those instances when it does not deal with law and order situations, terrorism or race relation issues, etc, like we do, then we will have to find ways of working with these other agencies or Ministries. One of the things that we do often is to have inter-agency organisations. In other words, it is to have Inter-Ministerial Committees, like the ones chaired by the Minister and with other Ministers. Of course, we also have the National Security Coordination Secretariat which DPM Jayakumar is in charge of. So, when there are issues that are across several Ministries that concern our national security, then there will be another level where cooperation and coordination oversight can take place. So, we think that we have to find a suitable way to deal with the problems that we face. For now, we think that the way we have structured is correct. Can we have more people, for example? Can we have better systems, for example? Of course, we can. But, again, every government operates within a certain budget and so does a Ministry. Therefore, we have to make use of whatever we have and do the job the best that we can. On the question regarding the bounty award, the Government does not have a policy of offering bounties for arrests of people for whatever the cause or crime. The public-spiritedness of our people is very good and, in fact, very strong. Of the major arrests made by the Police, 40% were done with the assistance of the public. When I mentioned this to my counterparts from other countries when I meet them, they could not believe that members of the public in Singapore would help the security agencies in keeping crime low. But then we are not saying that no one should offer a bounty.”
“Sir, I think different countries organise their government functions differently. We have seen countries where they have all the security agencies in one place and then decide over one incident to break it up into several. The results of this arrangement are still not known – whether it is the most effective way of dealing with problems confronting the country. In another instance, which I think you will remember, a Home Affairs Ministry was split into two different Ministries and they are now back into the same one setup. For Singapore, we have had MHA for a long time. What is the role of MHA comprising many departments - the Police, Prisons, Narcotics Bureau, Immigration and Checkpoints, ISD, and SCDF? If you look at each of these roles, I think there is only one key mission, and that is, to keep Singapore safe from harm by people, whether it is a law and order situation, whether it is people who want to smuggle things into Singapore, or whether people who want to get into Singapore and do us harm, like terrorists, or even our own people, that we have been watching, for whatever reason, like for terrorism, crime, and so on. All these functions complement one another. Therefore, MHA's role is to make sure that the different departments work together as one team. Can we split this? Well, who knows? Some day we may decide to operate differently. But, for now, we think that we should make use of the complementarities of the different setups within the MHA's departments and make it a better organisation. That is how we have been operating the system. Of course, many agencies and Ministries do contribute to making Singapore safe too.”
“In the Whitley Road Detention Centre, family members visit detainees in the Centre and, as in any organisation, we do not just keep strictly to only one gender and, in this instance, the SDO's job is administrative. The guarding is to be done by the guards and therefore we do have female SDOs and we have guards who are there and each of them has separate functions.”
“Sir, I cannot comment on the rumour that Ms Sylvia Lim just raised because, after all, it is just a rumour. How satisfied is MHA or the police with the search process? I will leave the professionals to do the job and I suppose they being the experts in this area and the ones who do such searches, I would expect them to have the ability to determine whether that search on the ground floor is adequate or not. I would not be able to comment on this specifically. But clearly for the Home Team, from the results that the Police Force have produced so far in keeping Singapore safe with the low crime rates that we have seen over the years and declining over the years too, and the quickness in their going about in solving a crime when they can find the lead, I think that speaks for the professionalism of the Force. Of course, that does not mean that every officer is of the same standard. As in any organisation, there will be people who do very well and there will be people who do not, and that is the limitation of any human organisation. Why did it take so long to communicate certain information? As I said, information has to be accurately confirmed before it is told to the public. Why was the part about the mole not communicated to the public till after 19 days? Frankly, if you ask me, and if you look at the poster, it is not so easy to detect a mole unless you look closely at every part of the face. But for that officer who saw it, he must have thought over it and decided to give the information. But unless you come into close face-to-face contact with the person, it may not be so easy to notice a small mole. Why do we have female Special Duty Operatives? We have male and female working in every government department.”
“Sir, fourthly, the Executive Summary report and the earlier speech made by the Minister mentioned the fact that the SDO who was accompanying Mas Selamat together with the Gurkhas was a lady officer and in the DPM's narration of the facts, it appeared that there was a little bit of time loss when the SDO went to search for the Assistant Case Officer to come and respond to the case. I noted that the COI did not make any recommendation about whether it would be more advisable to match gender with the inmate. Was this the cause of some loss of time and would the DPM care to comment on this? And last of all, Sir, there is a rumour that there is an ISD officer who has gone missing. I wonder whether DPM can comment on whether there is any truth in this rumour at all.”
“In this WRDC, unfortunately, complacency has set in over time and therefore ISD needs to review the way it runs its operations, including the people who run it, and therefore those who were involved or responsible for the escape of Mas Selamat will be removed from their positions and we will put new people in charge. Ms Sylvia Lim (Non-Constituency Member): Sir, five clarifications for the DPM. First is, how satisfied is he of the thoroughness of the search after Mas Selamat's escape? For example, I was told by some people living in the vicinity of the Whitley Road Detention Centre that the army came to their double-storey homes to do a search, but only the lower floor was searched and the upper floor was not searched. Secondly, Sir, coming back to the communication of the information to the public after the escape, earlier, DPM mentioned that they wanted to be sure of the accuracy of information before release to the public about his attire and so on. Why did it then take 19 days for the police to tell the public that Mas Selamat has a mole under his eye? Could they not verify that information at an earlier time? Thirdly, Sir, Singapore is not large and it has already been eight weeks since the escape. Does the Minister not find it disappointing that we have not been able to find Mas Selamat so far and is it not understandable that Singaporeans themselves lose confidence in the capability of our security forces?”
“Sir, it will be a while before the new detention centre can be built. It is not just simply awarding the contract and therefore we can get it done straightaway. The relocation of this detention centre needs to be carefully thought out and planned such that within that site, ISD can continue to manage a detention centre for the purpose that it needs and yet, at the same time, be able to enhance the security based on the best standard provided by the Prisons. Therefore, it would be some years before we can build a new centre. I cannot for now say when that exactly will be, but I have asked both the Prisons Department and ISD, and overseen by MHA HQ, to develop this plan. How will we step up the incarcerating standards without compromising the current way that detainees are dealt with? For one, detainees who are moving around in the Whitley Road Detention Centre will be handcuffed. When they are out of the Centre, leg-cuffs will also be applied on them. The physical security of the place will also be improved. The fencing of the Whitley Road Detention Centre will be raised and Prisons Department's assistance will be sought to ensure that the place is secure enough. The guards will no longer be allowed to leave the line of sight from the detainees. They will have to keep the detainee under constant line of sight. Therefore, we believe that implementing these measures will help us to minimise the chance of a detainee escaping. In fact, I do not think it will be possible for one to escape without slackening in the standard and therefore audits will also be in place, and we will continue to make sure that the system runs well. ISD officers are used to working in very trying conditions.”
“So when the security agencies did the search, they also have to be mindful that within the forested areas – those of us who have done National Service would know what it was like – there are thick vegetation, uneven ground, tall trees and lots of leaves and branches and therefore it could be possible for a person to hide there for a long time. And from information given by some of the illegal immigrants, they have been living there for more than a year. They could survive with the water that can be found in the forest. There were nuts and berries. There were also illegal farms in the forested area. So it is not an easy task but despite that, I think our SAF and the Home Team have done their best in searching the forest. But that is not to say that we have now stopped searching. There are other ways of doing the search and I am not at liberty to tell Members what has been set in place in the forest. And now in this phase of operation, it is a more targeted approach based on information and intelligence and based on calls by the public who said that they have met or saw somebody that may look like Mas Selamat. But for the whole of the coastal areas around Singapore, we have the coast guards and we have various sentries and observation posts to look out for people who may want to leave Singapore by sea. All those things are in place.”
“That people do regard Singapore to be safe and people do know that we are serious when there is a problem and they know too that we will take action to fix the problem. This gives this new resident feel confident. What are the efforts so far? In the first part of the operation, our police and other security agencies, including SAF, went about their searches according to the leads that they have. Following that, they did a systematic extensive search of the forest based on the information that we have collected and they swept through all the forested areas. In the process they found more than 100 illegal immigrants in the forested areas and on 9th April they found a body and that person, who has now been identified, was last seen by his landlord a month before his body was discovered. It just goes to show that we have done as much as we could in searching. But I am also reminded of another occasion. In 2004, Members may recall, there were three robbers who escaped from our neighbouring country and they went to Pulau Tekong. The SAF and the police mounted an extensive search of the forest in Pulau Tekong and that senior officer who was in charge of the operation told me that it is not easy to track through the forest to look for people because there could be many hiding places, thick undergrowth and holes. So if the person hides himself well, even if the person is just a few feet away from the search party, he could not be found by the search party. Eventually the three robbers, one of them was armed with a gun, were only found when they left the parts which are forested. That was how they were found.”
“Sir, the guards in the WRDC were told not to communicate unnecessarily with the detainees and if they were to communicate, it has to be done through the WRDC staff. That is to prevent any miscommunication between them. Even though the GC guards speak English, sometimes there could be misunderstanding. In this instance where guards escort detainees, they were told not to over familiarise and fraternalise with detainees. So there are good reasons why guards do not talk to detainees. Of course, what the guard did not do in this instance - and it is part of his duty because his duty is to secure the escort of a detainee from one place to another - was, even after having noted that Mas Selamat had taken some time in the toilet, he did not get into the toilet himself to check. He should have. He should have gone in but instead he just asked his fellow guard outside who called on the SDO who then called on the Assistant Case Officer. Our guards are well trained but they also have to operate within certain procedures. So in this instance they thought that they did the right thing which, unfortunately, turned out to be wrong. On investor confidence and the regard for our security, I think Mr Lim Hng Kiang this morning answered the question raised by Mr Low Thia Khiang regarding investor confidence and I will just try to paraphrase him as best as I could. EDB has not received any information that there is a loss of investor confidence as a result of this. In fact, I am told that somebody who has now made his home here commented to her that really situations like this happen in many countries and in most countries, it is just one of the things that has happened. What struck him was that in Singapore we took it so seriously. I think that is something for us.”
“The moment the escape happened, the first thing that was done by the Whitley Road Detention Centre guards was to have a guard turnout, stand to, and they turned up quickly went outside the fence of Whitley Road Detention Centre and did a thorough search. There were ISD officers and over time there were also police officers. I am told that when there are such movements and plenty of people in the search area, it will not be of value to deploy the tracker dogs because the tracker dogs simply cannot operate with so many human beings around and having trampled over the place. It is just simply impossible for the dogs to work. But in other areas, tracker dogs have been in place. For example, not far from the Whitley Road area, tracker dogs were in place and ready to be deployed. In fact, I said earlier that at 4.35 pm, the Gurkha trackers – these are special people trained to track the jungle and forest – were already on the ground operating in the terrain which is wooded, uneven and it is difficult to manoeuvre, and they were in place at 4.35 pm.”
“Audits will be in place and not just by ISD but also by the Prisons Department. Every year, they will do a regular audit of the place and I am sure for the senior management in the ISD, they will also do regular audits by a separate group of people outside the Whitley Road Detention Centre but part of the ISD setup.”
“First, I would like to say, as I have said earlier, that there are SOPs in place for those who are guarding detainees. Unfortunately, those involved on that day did not follow those procedures. They breached the procedures. As a result, the escape happened. So, as far as processes and systems are in place, there are, except that those who were supposed to implement them did not follow closely. Following this escape, and having noted the lapses, for example, the window was not grilled, action to seal has been taken. In other words, the window has been sealed. But to ensure that this does not take place through a lapse of another kind of toilet window, for example, WRDC has now implemented a procedure where the detainees will not be allowed to shower in the toilet outside the cell block. So that will prevent them from getting out, going into another room and escape. And all toilet windows have been sealed and the perimeter fencing and the place where the staircase and walkway converged with the fencing, all those issues will also be dealt with and it is already in progress. Can I guarantee Members that there will be no lapses in future? Well, let me say that in all human systems, when they are operated by human beings, I think they can only be as good as the people you put in. We can have all the systems in place but if the people do not follow them, I think one day something may happen. But from what has happened so far arising from the Mas Selamat's case, all those lapses that have been discovered have been dealt with and therefore it is not likely that the same lapses will occur. There will be constant supervision, there will be checks, there will be audits. It is a question raised earlier on, I think, by Mr Inderjit.”
“Even if we know for sure that he was wearing a particular set of clothes, that also would not be easy to determine because, if he had access to other clothings, he would have changed what he was wearing and, that information, if provided by the police regarding what he was wearing while inside, would simply point the people in the wrong direction. So, the Police and ISD have to weigh all these. But because of the demand by and interest of the public to know exactly what he was wearing, that the ISD and Police finally put out the basic information. Even then, there was caution to take that information, to make sure that people do not just think that because that is the information given and, therefore, they should be looking out for a person wearing that set of clothes.”
“I do not think we are going to get any new information from him. But that person, in his mind and to his knowledge, has a lot of information to share. Therefore, the significance of keeping him in the Whitley Road Detention Centre where he can be immediately available to answer questions by the case officer will be very important. I am told that this is like a ticking-bomb situation – something is still going on and you need information immediately, the detainees are available straightaway for questioning. So we must understand the make-up of the centre and the difference between Whitley Road Detention Centre and the prison setting. On communication about information regarding Mas Selamat, the point that they were very cautious in releasing information is that they wanted to be very accurate about the information. If they do not have the information clearly in their minds or on records, then putting out information as they think they see will simply be more problematic. It is a balance between speed in telling the public about what he was wearing, or whether he was limping or not and so on, and that information needs to be accurate. It is no point just putting out information when it is not accurate. For example, the clothes he was wearing, even in the early days, it was not easy to determine exactly what he would be wearing before he has left the Whitley Road Detention Centre. Could he have changed into other sets of clothes?”
“Sir, ISA detainees are not the same as those inmates in the prison. For the inmates in the prison, there is a judicial process when they get charged in court for an offence, and when the court decides to impose an imprisonment sentence, that person will go to the prison, serve the time that the court has imposed, and then he will be discharged from the prison. From time to time, some of them may be re-admitted to prison for committing offences. For ISA detainees, they do not go through the normal court process where they are charged and imprisoned in the Whitley Road Detention Centre. They are in the Whitley Road Centre for preventive detention. In other words, detainees are kept there because we want to prevent them from causing harm to our national security. That is the purpose of the Whitley Road Detention Centre. Over time, the kind of detainees that were kept in the Whitley Road Detention Centre changed and, of course, those who were there ought to have taken note of it and also do something different. The key to preventive detention, apart from preventing a person from doing harm, is also to get information from that detainee so that, with that information, it will help to prevent a terrorist attack. If others need information or, if there are other cases that are being investigated, either by ISD or by other agencies, they will then be able to extract more information from the detainees who would be available immediately because they are in the WRDC. So, the regime in the Whitley Road Detention Centre is different from that of the Changi Prison. To the extent that we want to detain them, we also need their cooperation to provide information. The moment we put a terrorist in the Changi Prison, that is it.”
“But I feel that the communication that happened after that, not just the four hours but even beyond that. The public was told about what Mas Selamat wore about five days later, and a few days later, they were told about his limp which was not exactly a limp. This is something that most of us did not expect from such an organisation like ISD. This is an organisation we all respected. We thought that it was one of the best in Singapore. But I felt that the way things were handled subsequently, the communication was poorly handled, and this is something that we did not expect. Finally, some of the events that happened, not just in terms of the custody, but also in terms of operating procedures, can I ask who audits ISD? Do they audit themselves and, therefore, we create the weaknesses within the system?”
“Yes, I would acknowledge that. It is a valid point and we will study this and see how to make further improvements. On the management of Mas Selamat's family, even before this, there was already a programme to manage the families of detainees, and not just for Mas Selamat. There are officers whose job is to look after the family, to make sure that their children have the opportunity to attend school without being harassed by their neighbours and to ensure that they have the means to attend school when their father is not working. We also got the community to help out these detainees' families. So everything possible to ensure that the family remains intact and the family's difficulties were resolved in some way or another is carried out. On risk management and checking, yes, of course, that will always have to be done. Every SOP that we have, we must continue to review them all the time to make sure that these remain relevant to the situation at hand. In this particular instance which led to Mas Selamat's escape, unfortunately, those who were in charge – not that there were no SOPs, there were – simply did not follow and they deviated from the SOP. Mr Inderjit Singh (Ang Mo Kio): Sir, I have two issues. (1) At which point do we consider a terrorist a criminal? Do we want him to kill someone first before we treat him as a criminal? I feel that we need to have a shift in thinking about how we treat some of these terrorists with regard to the custody of all of them. The US has got the Guantanamo Bay prison facility. I do not think we need to go that far. Changi Prison is probably good enough. But maybe we are a bit too lenient in treating some of these terrorists. (2) Mistakes do happen and I do not want to pick on how he escaped.”
“Sir, I will leave it to the others to think about the kind of appreciation programme, but as far as the Home Team and the SAF are concerned, we are doing our job. For those who help us, particularly young people, in fact, for any Singaporean who is going to help us, I think the right thing to do is always to be vigilant, not to confront a criminal or would-be criminal, but alert the police to any sighting that he may have come across. Is MHA or are we satisfied with the communication process? Of course, we cannot be satisfied. We can always improve. For example, some have asked why has it taken four hours to tell the public that Mas Selamat has escaped. As I have explained, the first few hours were critical in making sure that all our operational units are out to look for the man, and to make sure that all our border security is tightened up, whether it is by ICA, the Police or the Coast Guard, and to make sure that the standard procedures in dealing with a situation like that are followed closely. This is important because we must decide what is the immediate priority. The immediate priority is to find the person to the best of our ability. Unless Mas Selamat is assessed to be dangerous and this immediately puts Singapore at risk because he could lay his hands on any explosive material, then informing the public would be a matter of course. But we need to do the first thing first. In the case of Mas Selamat, the assessment is that he would not be of immediate danger to Singapore because it would not be possible or likely for him to be able to plan an attack against us soon after the escape. That is why communication with the public was not the first item that the agencies had. But they did it in time and it took about four hours. Could we have shortened the process?”
“We are such a developed place in the region that if anyone can plant a bomb in Singapore and have it exploded in Singapore, then they would signal to the world that they have hit a prime target. Therefore, in all our measures, we have to make sure that our first line of defence, which is the checkpoints, must be well secured and people coming in must be thoroughly checked. So, to the best of our ability, we will try to prevent such people from coming in.”
“I have always asked our security agencies for their assessment of whether Mas Selamat is still in Singapore and, based on the best available information that they have, they think he is still in Singapore. ISD has also been in contact with their counterparts in the region and ISD is in constant touch to find out whether their counterparts have any new information concerning Mas Selamat. The information from our counterparts so far is that they have no intelligence on Mas Selamat's whereabouts in their own country, which means that they do not have information that Mas Selamat has entered their country. Throughout the search in the last seven weeks or so, there was some information that led to our security agencies believing that he is in Singapore. I am not at liberty to tell Members exactly what these intelligence tips are because our agencies need to protect the information so that they can go about their job to find the person. And I can assure Members that every available means of collecting information on Mas Selamat has been deployed. Dr Neo asked what happens if Mas Selamat managed to escape from Singapore and whether that would pose a greater risk to us by launching revenge attack. He would, because he is a terrorist who wants to strike us even way back in 2001 or before that when he had plans to crash a plane into our Changi Airport. That is why we consider him to be a key figure in the terrorist network. If he could leave Singapore and connect back with his JI friends outside, they could launch some plans to attack Singapore. And that brings me to the point, which I have made all the time, that Singapore is a prime target with or without Mas Selamat. That is because Singapore was the one that exposed the JI network.”
“So when that happens, then invariably, the check will be delayed and the person will be turned around and, as a result, other people will be held up. So I think all of us must play our part and ICA will do its best to ensure that we can facilitate the flow of traffic, people, vehicles, etc, through our checkpoints. Dr Lily Neo (Jalan Besar): Two questions, Sir. May I ask DPM on the statements made to say that Mas Selamat was still in Singapore, how confident was he when he made that statement and whether that statement is still applicable today? My next question is: if Mas Selamat is not caught, what kind of revenge attack can we expect from him, especially if he has escaped to the neighbouring country? Is there any way of guarding us from him or at least minimising his impact on us?”
“But in the early days, when ICA took it up with their counterparts, they did provide some parking places to enable more vehicles to be left overnight at the Johore customs area for checking the following morning. I have looked at the data. The first three weeks were not very good in that we saw the commuters and vehicular traffic went down by about 7% or 8% and, in some instances, 10%. By the fourth or fifth week, the number of vehicles and people, including motor cycles, trucks, buses, etc, reduced only by about 3% to 5%. Now, it is in the eighth week already. I am told that the number of vehicles coming into Singapore is already back to the day before Mas Selamat's escape. So, have we affected the businesses by stopping the vehicles from coming in? Yes, initially, we did. We sought the understanding of our merchants and businesses and they knew that we had to take very stringent measures to prevent him from escaping. But, now, we have tried our best and, as a result, the traffic situation has gone back to normal. But, despite that, let me say that, from time to time, there will be congestion because the traffic volume has actually gone up very significantly over the years. Last year, I am told that about 110 million people got in and out of our checkpoints. And I think this is probably one of the busiest land checkpoints in the world. Therefore, while Singaporeans face the inconvenience of being checked thoroughly, I hope they understand why we have to do that and we also hope that when they travel, they should try not to go during the peak period. And when they go, please present the correct documents. Even during this period, we see people trying to leave Singapore with the passport of a relative, instead of their own.”
“So the first thing ICA did was to lock down our border and check everyone who wanted to get out of Singapore either through land checkpoint, by air or by sea. And, progressively, ICA have also used technology to help them in their work. As a result, everyone leaving Singapore and passing through the immigration officer will have to have his fingerprint scanned, just to be absolutely sure that the person cannot disguise himself and leave Singapore unnoticed. Similarly, for goods vehicles, lorries, trucks, or whatever. There are many hiding places in these vehicles as you have seen in smuggling cases that tried to come into Singapore. Therefore, every vehicle must be thoroughly checked. In the first two to three weeks, of course, there was congestion. But ICA learned from the experience and they adapted and innovated, and they even made special measures such as for school buses that need to bring students into Singapore, they created a special access so that children going to school would not be delayed in attending the classes. For the long queues of vehicles, unfortunately, we could not do much about it. This is because, while our ICA works 24 hours, round the clock, in the case of the Malaysian customs, they stop work between 11 pm and 6 am. So there would be no customs clearance. Even if the lorries and trucks want to leave Singapore and get into Malaysia, they could not because, between 11.00 pm and 6.00 am, there would be no Malaysian customs checking them. So the Malaysian lorry drivers had asked ICA to take it up with the Malaysian government, which MHA did, through the Foreign Ministry, and they said they would consider this request.”
“He was also the Director of Prisons and now, he is the Non-Resident Ambassador to the United Arab Emirates. Before being a CP, he was also the Director of Prisons. So he understood the whole structure of security and the safe custody for inmates very well. Dr Choong May Ling is a senior Administrative Officer. She was a doctor but gave up practice and joined the Administrative Service, and she had been posted to many Ministries. After her posting in the Ministry of Home Affairs, she will be posted again to another Ministry. And, again, our public service officers are people with integrity. But for these two, one because of the deep experience he had acquired over his professional life, I think his experience is highly valuable in this role as a member of the COI. Similarly, for Dr Choong May Ling, her understanding of the functioning of Government is very important, and for Mr Goh Joon Seng, having had a distinguished career in law and in the Judiciary, and now in his current positions. These are the people who will serve the Committee of Inquiry well and get to the bottom of things and then put up their reports completely objectively and impartially. And, as I have mentioned, they were given full access to all the highly classified information and the people who work in the WRDC, including the ISD officers. On the congestion at the Checkpoint, yes, initially, when we put up the heightened security measures. ICA called it Operational Tidal Gate to prevent Mas Selamat from getting out of the country. I think there is no two ways about it because if we do not do that, all our efforts in finding him in Singapore will be wasted.”
“Even then, for the guard, the OIC who was in charge and on duty on that day, after being told, he decided to go and check for himself what was the situation, and it took him only very few seconds to get to the place because the Guard Room was not too far from it. On the independence of the Committee members, the Government does not pick anyone just to be Committee members to satisfy its own purpose. In fact, the Government does not set up a Committee of Inquiry just for the case of public presentation. A Committee of Inquiry is for very serious purposes, ie, to determine the cause of any serious problem, find out what has happened and determine who caused it and make recommendations, and the Government takes such a Committee very seriously. So when the Government appoints people to serve in the committees, the basic and most important factor must be the integrity of the people who serve in it, and I have no doubt about the integrity of the people who serve in it. Mr Goh Joon Seng is a former High Court Judge. He is now a Member of the Council of Presidential Advisers. He is also the Chairman of the Presidential Council for Religious Harmony. He has spent time assessing people and making decisions on cases that came before him when he was a Judge, and I have no doubt about the seriousness in which he went about doing his job as the Chairman. I have no doubt about his integrity. Mr Tee Tua Ba and Dr Choong May Ling are people with years of public service. They would not be where they are today if they are not people with high integrity. Mr Tee Tua Ba has served the public service well in his 30-over years of career as a senior Police Officer in various positions, the last position being the Commissioner of Police (CP).”