Kerry McCarthy
MP for Bristol East · Labour · United Kingdom
“We see that in four main ways: physical risks, including floods, wildfires, droughts and storms; transition risks as economies move away from high-carbon industries; nature-related risks affecting food production and natural resources; and systemic risks, where shocks spread rapidly across sectors and markets.”
“The glaciers of the third pole function as Asia’s water tower, feeding major river systems that support nearly 2 billion people. When rising temperatures accelerate glacial melt, the consequences extend far beyond the mountains.”
“Following the heatwaves and wildfires across Europe this summer and the destruction caused by the glacier collapse and catastrophic flooding in Nepal and Tibet, the message is becoming impossible to ignore: the consequences of climate change and environmental degradation are real, not some distant future threat.”
“Personally, I cannot see that Rosebank is compatible with meeting our climate objectives, but I recognise that the process should be followed. Green Alliance has reported that the gas being wasted in the North sea would be enough to heat 570,000 homes.”
“I too worked in the financial markets, although I think I have done a better job of hiding it in my 21 years in Parliament. I was more on the debt market side. In fact, I am so old that I was part of the salvage operation for Barings bank when it went under. That brings me to the right hon. Gentleman’s point about regulation.”
“My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that I very much agree with the point that he just made. We have some excellent, innovative businesses in Bristol that came up through the Science Creates innovation hubs and attracted private capital.”
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“Conservation zones reach tens of millions of hectares, and it has ambitious targets to expand them further to safeguard up to 30% of its marine territory by 2045, which would make it one of the largest marine conservation networks in the world. Indonesia is also investing in marine conservation and restoration, including in coral reef rehabilitation programmes, stricter environmental regulations and innovative schemes such as the coral reef bond, which funds conservation projects based on measurable improvements in reef health. The UK has now passed the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Act 2026, and although I understand that a few more steps must be taken before the global ocean treaty is finally ratified, I hope that we will be able to play a full role in January at the ocean COP in New York.”
“It lies at the centre of the coral triangle, which is often called the “Amazon of the seas” because of its exceptional biodiversity, and has over 75% of the world’s coral species and more than a third of global reef fish species. Indonesia’s marine environment is amazing—I have been diving there, so I can vouch for that—but it is also highly vulnerable. The reefs are under pressure from overfishing, destructive fishing practices such as blast fishing, pollution and overdevelopment. Rising sea temperatures cause coral bleaching, which weakens or kills reefs, while pollution and sedimentation reduce water quality. Indonesia has established hundreds of marine protected areas.”
“It was good to talk to Nadine on the visit; she was a real source of expertise. I am glad to hear that, and if it is a possible answer to the issue, that is excellent. I will talk a little about the marine environment. We have quite a lot of debates in this place about oceans and marine issues, so I will not say too much, but they are important to Indonesia. The country covers an area of around 8 million km 2 , only a quarter of which is land. With around 17,000 islands, Indonesia is an ocean state, supporting coral reefs, mangroves and sea grass habitats that are vital for biodiversity and for human livelihoods such as fishing and tourism.”
“On that specific point, Fairtrade was holding an event in the IPU room earlier and I was concerned to hear about the cost of complying with forest risk commodities regulation for indigenous farmers. They were citing figures in the tens—I think the low tens—for both African and Latin American smallholders. Can the Minister speak to her colleagues in DEFRA about how we can ensure that the burden of these regulations does not fall on people in indigenous communities? I think the answer is having co-operatives or regional government-led initiatives to make sure that they can comply with the certification, but can she make sure that that point is taken up?”
“Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests at the start of my speech, in relation to our trip to Borneo; I was just asking my colleague, and we are not quite sure whether all Members who went on the trip should have done so, but that is now on the record. As hon. Members will have appreciated, that trip was absolutely wonderful. It brought home to us not only the potential of the rainforest, the peatlands and Indonesia’s natural environment, but the threats that they face. I thank ICCF and Borneo Orangutan Survival, representatives of which are here to watch the debate. I hope that I have done justice to their efforts, and long may our relationship continue. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered UK-Indonesia collaboration on environmental sustainability.”
“I thank everyone who came along to support the debate, and I thank the Front Benchers for their replies. I was particularly glad to hear the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Fylde (Mr Snowden), show such enthusiasm for the global energy transition and for countries meeting their climate ambitions, accelerating climate action and recognising the importance of carbon sequestration. I did not think those were Conservative party policies any more, but perhaps it is a different matter when it is about Indonesia rather than the UK. I resisted the urge to intervene on him on that point, as we will be having that debate in this place tomorrow morning. I am not sure whether I should have referred hon.”
“I, too, want to echo the tribute that my right hon. Friend has paid to the Prime Minister. There is much of which he can be proud, particularly on the international stage. I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister’s strong words about what is happening in Gaza and the west bank, but my constituents frequently write to me in despair that Israel seems to be able to act with impunity when it comes to illegal settlements, the blocking of aid and many other examples. What reassurance can he give them that there is some hope that Israel will be held to account, and that the people of Gaza and the west bank will be helped in the face of such oppression?”
“1. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her Department’s policies of the level of risk to countries arising from environmental change in the Tibetan plateau.”
“Mr Speaker, I echo what you said about Jo Cox. I think her message is more important today than it ever was. I thank the Minister for her response. China’s actions, from environmentally destructive mining to building dams to divert water sources, will have consequences far beyond the Tibetan plateau, as she says, as will the failure to address the impact of climate change on the third pole. What steps can the UK take to raise these issues at a global level? Does the Minister agree that the voices of Tibetans should be heard in any such talks?”
“In 2009 and 2010, I used to be the Whip in charge of Friday sittings, but even now I would struggle to explain just how things work with some of the Back-Bench Bills, given some of the shenanigans that go on. Does my hon. Friend agree that it destroys our constituents’ faith in parliamentary democracy when they feel that we are all playing games—filibustering and resorting to tactics to talk a Bill out, rather than debating things on their merits and moving to a vote to determine the will of the House?”
“I am sure the Department is already gearing up for the biodiversity COP in Armenia later this year, but what discussions will the Department be having with the Foreign Office about the equally important desertification COP that is taking place in Mongolia, where important issues such as water shortages, the degradation of land and much more will be on the agenda?”
“T6. Cleaning up perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl substances, or forever chemicals, costs water companies and bill payers huge amounts every year. Does the Minister agree that polluters should foot the bill for remediation, and can the “polluter pays” principle be included in the clean water Bill?”
“The first time I met the Prime Minister was when, as Director of Public Prosecutions, he came to Parliament to meet a group of MPs to outline his 10-point plan for tackling female genital mutilation. Since then there have been hundreds of reports of FGM cases but very few prosecutions. What is the Solicitor General doing, whether through prosecutions or a multi-agency approach, to try to rescue young girls from this horrific mutilation?”
“15. When he plans to publish the Government’s response to the consultation entitled “Voluntary carbon and nature markets: raising integrity”.”
“I thank the Minister for her response, and I welcome the UK’s leadership. Investors are concerned that the role of nature-based solutions in carbon market frameworks is not being fully recognised. With London Climate Action Week fast approaching, can she reassure investors that the Government see nature-based solutions as crucial to our collective efforts to tackle climate change, and that we will pursue this endeavour during upcoming article 6 negotiations?”
“T6. I thank the Minister for the £13.5 million for the Temple Quarter heat network in my constituency. Where Bristol leads with City Leap, others can follow, so what are the Government doing to support other places in following our example, in order to get investment in decarbonising our cities?”
“We have excellent alternative learning providers in Bristol, from the Enemy of Boredom Academy, which is about developing video games, to the Wheels Project, which is about stripping down cars and rebuilding them. They are a lifeline for young people who are struggling with mainstream education. As part of the Milburn review, will the Government look at supporting ALPs so that young people can be set back on the right path towards a job in the future?”
“In London, we have the world’s leading financial centre, and we are the best place to lead—many international visitors to last year’s buzzing London Climate Action Week told us that—but the consultation that concluded on 10 July last year seems to have gone into the ether. If the Minister can reply on only one issue that I have asked about, can she tell us what has happened to progress on the voluntary carbon and nature markets?”
“They are perfectly willing to get with the programme, if they know what the programme is. We saw misplaced caution in other areas, too, such as on our manifesto commitment to 1.5°-aligned transition plans. One other area where I suspect other parts of the Government machine have been acting as a drag on progress is the development of voluntary carbon and nature markets. We know that public money and philanthropy alone will be nowhere near enough to enable us to meet our climate and nature goals. We also know that private finance is interested in investment, whether that is driven by the need to offset its own emissions, decarbonise portfolios, or ensure biodiversity net gain—or whether it is driven by insurers’ worries about climate risks and so on.”
“Those discussions were valid, but what was not valid was some quarters suggesting that we should not regulate at all. First, there was the reputational crisis. How could the UK, which co-chaired the global Forest and Climate Leaders’ Partnership with Guyana, and the forest, agriculture and commodity trade dialogue with Malaysia, call on other countries to protect and restore our precious forests and peatlands if we were not prepared to act ourselves? We would have no moral standing. Secondly, businesses want this. I met companies such as Ferrero, and major supermarkets, who want the Government to act, set the direction and show leadership, so that they can plan accordingly. They do not see that as a burden. It is lack of certainty that businesses hate.”
“Sometimes, there was a battle to stress to them just how crucial the drive towards net zero could be to our economic opportunities. Too often, progress was stalled by, “Treasury says no,” “No. 10 says no,” or “The Department for Business and Trade says no.” The knee-jerk reaction was that regulation or intervention would be a burden on business. To take forest risk commodities as an example, in the Environment Act 2021, the previous Government committed to introducing regulations to stamp out deforestation in our supply chains. The EU was on the same mission, using the EU deforestation regulation. When I was a Minister in this Government, there were lengthy discussions about whether we should stick with the UK approach, centred on illegal deforestation, or adopt the EU’s approach, which was based on sustainability.”
“When I was climate Minister with the international energy brief, I saw that the British model for offshore wind was seen as the gold standard, in everything from the way we financed it through contracts for difference to the innovation of floating offshore wind and offshore hybrid assets, such as the Nautilus and LionLink interconnector pilots. Whether I was at North Seas Energy Co-operation events, or talking to the President of Azerbaijan ahead of COP29, there was great interest in what we were doing and recognition of our expertise. The same was true of our progress on small modular reactors, fusion, and carbon capture and storage. It has to be said that that was not always recognised by other parts of the Government.”
“Matter was recently runner-up for the Earthshot prize, having developed washing machine filters that will filter out 97% of microplastics. LettUs Grow’s aeroponic growing systems were being talked about at the desertification COP that I attended in Riyadh in 2024, and Vertical Aviation is pioneering electric flight with a very cool plane. At national level, clean energy is the fastest-growing sector of the economy, bringing jobs and economic growth back to de-industrialised communities—and it has huge export potential.”
“On the one hand, we have the Tories and Reform peddling fallacious arguments about the cost of net zero, and completely failing to grasp the importance of ending our dependence on volatile fossil-fuel markets—with an apparent abject ignorance of things like electric arc furnaces and carbon capture and storage. On the other hand, we have the Greens and their anti-growth agenda, not understanding that for redistribution, we first need to have a growing, strong economy to redistribute from; that to solve a housing crisis, we need to support our construction industry; and that we can pursue economic growth in a way that helps us protect the planet, rather than plunder it. Indeed, many companies in my constituency of Bristol East, some of which are attracting international attention, are showing how that can be done.”
“I welcome the measures set out in the King’s Speech, and the wider Government programme to back British businesses. In the face of ever more disabling global headwinds, it is crucial to have a Government who accept an interventionist role, whether through renationalising British Steel, setting up Great British Energy, tougher regulation of the water companies, competition reform or tackling late payments. There is acknowledgement that an engaged state is needed, and that leaving things to the market simply does not work. It is disappointing and frustrating that even now we are having to relitigate the debate about whether reaching our climate goals and protecting our planet is compatible with economic growth and prosperity.”
“As far as I know, researchers have now paused such tests, but they have not committed to dropping them altogether and, as we heard, there are still three granted licenses that run until 2028. Although I would like to be able to trust scientists to down tools if they feel that the tests no longer have a purpose, will the Minister tell us whether the Government have considered revoking those licences? What is the purpose of allowing the licences to continue? Are they ever revoked, or do we always rely on scientists to make the call?”
“God knows how many times and on how many animals they had carried out that test—it must have been easily in the thousands, if not many more. They said to me, “We have not spotted anything interesting yet, but we’ll probably carry on doing it in case something interesting happens”. That seemed to me a complete exercise in futility, and a casual and callous approach to the purpose of tests. If tests are being carried out, we want to know that they at least have a point and are essential. I accept that we are not in a position to replace all animal testing tomorrow, but we absolutely ought to be keeping it to a minimum. Scientists doing tests on mice just in case they spot something fascinating seems completely wrong.”
“We could spend a lot of time talking about the horrors of animal testing and why we want to see it replaced, but I will also look forward and talk about the positive signals about replacing it that are now being sent. I want, though, to dwell for a moment on the forced swim test, which my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran talked about. As she said, it is particularly cruel and its use cannot be justified. She quoted the Government’s strategy on replacing animals in science, in which they admitted: “The test has limited scientific validity, particularly its translational relevance to human mental health disorders.” That was more or less what I was told when I met scientific researchers at the University of Bristol a few years ago.”
“He had been an EFRA Secretary of State and, before that, a Minister with responsibility for animal welfare, and he was one of those who joined me in calling for one Department to hold the issue of animal testing, so that we knew we would always get answers. Particularly in respect of the Home Office, animal testing is quite peripheral to the relevant Minister’s wider brief—I think she covers policing and all sorts of other issues—so it is difficult to get focus. I therefore welcome the fact that the Science Minister, even if he is in the other place and not here today, has responsibility and has brought forward the road map. I hope he is working closely on this with colleagues in DEFRA and the Home Office.”
“Having said that, it is good to see a DSIT Minister here. I have been around almost as long as the lord my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran mentioned; it seems like I have been here talking about animal welfare issues for 100 years, but it is only 21. In the past, the split between the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which has the pure animal welfare brief, and the Home Office, which often responds to debates because it is responsible for licensing, has been difficult. I remember, just before the general election, a debate in which George Eustice took part.”
“Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran has been doing that with great expertise. I thank the hon. Member for Huntingdon for his support for Camp Beagle and the campaign against MBR Acres. He is quite right that some of us voted against the effort to quell protests against the site; it seemed a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It also seems unfortunate that although, to a small extent, we had a debate in Committee, we did not have a debate on the measure on the Floor of the House. I know the Minister is not the Home Office Minister who was responsible for that delegated legislation, but there are still so many questions about what sort of protest will now be possible and to what extent the laws will be used. I hope the Minister has been briefed so that he can answer some of those questions.”
“It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Twigg. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Irene Campbell) for opening the debate. She is a real asset to the Petitions Committee. She has led a number of debates on animal welfare issues with great expertise. She is a real champion of animal welfare and is doing great work on the all-party parliamentary group. An important thing about the APPG is the extent to which it is evidence based. We can all stand here and get emotional about the horrors of animal testing and some of the things we have seen—such as the undercover footage of the dogs and macaques that the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty) mentioned—but when we make the case it is important to be able to present the alternative as well. My hon.”
“I will follow up with the University of Bristol to ask whether anyone has approached it who wants to use it to research NAMs, and if so what priority the university will give to such usage. There is great potential to use the super-brain in the computer. One reason why there are so many tests is that there is huge duplication and replication of tests, involving a huge number of animals. If we could use AI to number-crunch some of that, we could reduce the numbers in leaps and bounds, so I hope the university will get involved in the new institute. I hope the Minister can say a little more about whether he thinks AI is the way forward to help to bring down the number of animal tests significantly.”
“A very excited Secretary of State launched it in July last year; if the Minister has not yet had a chance to visit and learn about Isambard, there is an open invitation for him to do so. We have been told that the supercomputer will spearhead scientific breakthroughs in, among other things, the discovery of new drugs. It could be used to analyse cell data, for advanced medical image modelling, for large-scale biostatistics on human data sets, for medical genetic modelling and for organ-on-a-chip simulations, which my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran mentioned. In saying all that, my complete ignorance of these issues probably shines through, but it all sounds like it has huge potential, and there is already a huge amount of interest from researchers who want to use Isambard.”
“She mentioned the AnimalGAN software being developed by the FDA in the US, which could be used to determine how rats would react to chemicals without having to do new tests, and the Virtual Second Species challenge to create an AI-powered virtual dog, trained on historic dog tests, which sounds fantastic. In the strategy on replacing animals in science, the Government committed to setting up a new animal research institute that will “bring together data, AI, cell engineering, genomic technology and cutting-edge disease modelling capabilities to generate collaborative research at scale”. As I said, the University of Bristol was involved historically in the forced swim test. It is also at the forefront of AI innovation and research and was, as a result, chosen to host the Isambard-AI supercomputer, one of the fastest computers in the world.”
“Where does that commercial pressure sit against the Government’s stated desire to adopt the three Rs, and the measures to reduce the use of animals in experiments set out in the animal welfare strategy and road map? How do we make sure that the Government’s stated intentions prevail over the commercial considerations? On a more positive note, it is encouraging to see the progress that is being made on NAMs, and the Government throwing their weight behind that with £75 million for the new UK centre for the validation of alternative methods. I was particularly interested to hear what my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran said about the potential for using AI to help to replace animal testing.”
“It is important to make the case that this is not just about people being horrified by the cruelty involved. It is also about the fact that the tests have been proven in so many cases not to be effective, not to yield useful results and not to be the best way to make progress in medical discoveries. My hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran mentioned a couple of those points. On the point about conflicts with commercial consideration, the reason why MBR Acres put pressure on the Government and wanted to quell protests is that it is under some pressure: my understanding is that it is struggling to find customers and homes for its beagles because of the protests and the fact that people have quite rightly been horrified that tests are continuing.”
“Yes. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) on securing the debate. We do not talk about Ernest Bevin enough, even in Bristol. There is a bust of him in the Unite building, which was the Transport and General Workers’ Union building, and there is a plaque on St Werburghs, but we could do a lot more to celebrate his achievements in Bristol. In his biography, it is said that by the age 13 he was driving a van around the streets of Bristol, which is a slightly alarming prospect, but his back story is absolutely amazing and, given his background, it goes to show what an amazing man he was to rise to be Foreign Secretary.”
“The Minister may be about to answer exactly what constitutes first aid, but I have been looking up the definition of TDDI on the CQC site, which seems to cover mental health. Thinking particularly about festivals, where health incidents arising from drug misuse may lead to associated psychotic episodes and suicidal ideation, would the legislation cover volunteer organisations helping people on that side of things?”
“I was contacted in the early hours of this morning by two constituents who became proud British citizens in December. They did not have time to apply for British passports—they are from other EU countries with passports from there—because they were off on an extended honeymoon in south-east Asia. They now feel that they cannot get back into the UK from their honeymoon. They are absolutely stranded. I can pass on the details of the case to the Minister’s officials, but what would he advise? My constituents need to get back into this country as soon as possible. They should not have to pay a fortune for the privilege.”
“T2. Today a letter is on its way to the Secretary of State. It is signed by over 40 MPs and peers, and highlights the Coalition for Fisheries Transparency’s “Criminal catches” report. Will the Minister agree to meet us to discuss how we can stop the UK becoming a dumping ground for illegal seafood linked to criminality, environmental destruction and human exploitation?”
“Q3. I welcome the news that Bristol East will be getting another three breakfast clubs. As I have seen, these clubs are not just about making sure that no child starts the school day hungry, but about giving staff extra time with children to spot whether there might be trouble at home. On that note, may I urge the Prime Minister to work with schools on our manifesto commitment to identify children with parents in prison, to make sure that those children get all the support that they need?”
“I have encouraged many of my constituents to participate in the consultation that finishes on 12 February, but I am concerned to hear that some of the changes might be introduced in April this year. I know from past experience with Government consultations that it tends to take an awful long time for the Government to consider the responses and then come up with their own response to them. How does that work in terms of the timing?”
“The sentience of decapods and cephalopods was recognised, after quite a battle, in the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, but cephalopod molluscs, which include octopus, have not been brought into the scope of the Animal Welfare Act 2006. There are measures abroad, in the United States in particular, to ban octopus farming. I am very concerned about plans for an octopus farm in the Canary Islands. Can the Minister tell us the Government’s stance on that?”
“There is very little profit to be made from that. On the dairy sector, one of my concerns is how the strategy links up with moves to reduce emissions from livestock. The Climate Change Committee recommended reducing herd sizes to about 80%, but the Government talk about increasing production as a way of compensating for that. As I understand it, a beef suckler cow naturally produces about 4 litres of milk a day, and at the moment a dairy cow produces about 28 litres a day. If we are talking about increasing production and getting ever more milk out of a cow—treating them like machines rather than sentient animals—that will be of real concern to me, so I would like to know how that will be dealt with. My final point is about octopus farming.”
“I appreciate the financial pressures on the farming sector, and I know that colleagues will talk about things like the sexing of the 40 million to 45 million male chicks that are slaughtered each year within a day of their birth. There are systemic issues with how much farmers are paid for their food and how much we are prepared to pay for it, but we should not use the argument about the financial pressure on farmers to move away from doing what is right in terms of ethical animal welfare practices. I look at things very much from the perspective of trying to avoid a shift towards ever more intensive industrialised farming. We know that the poultry industry, for example, is huge: over 1 billion meat chickens are bred every year. We know the impact on our water supplies and air quality from what are more like factories than farms.”
“Will there be one overarching animal welfare Bill—primary legislation—or can we do things by statutory instrument? Will the Government look to private Members’ Bills? That was something that the previous Government used to try to kick issues into the long grass; they were nervous about bringing forward anything more substantial because they thought that we would try to ban trail hunting. We tried to tack that on, so they farmed off individual, discrete private Members’ Bills to their Back Benchers instead, and even those did not get over the line for the most part. Also, how will progress be monitored? Can we have a regular statement to Parliament? I am a little concerned by how much is going out to consultation. I have had a briefing from the NFU, which I have read carefully.”
“It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, as always, Ms Lewell. I am tempted to join the discussion about non-stun slaughter, but I will not, other than to say that my understanding is that the derogation to allow it is meant to cater to domestic populations, yet we are exporting quite a lot. Not allowing animals killed in that way to be exported would be one way to significantly reduce the numbers. I very much welcome the animal welfare strategy. There is lots of good stuff in it, and things that some of us who have been around for a long time have been pushing for for many years. I would like a bit more clarity from the Minister on the timescales and when these measures are likely to come into effect. Will legislation be needed?”
“In the last few weeks, I have visited two alternative learning projects in my constituency. One is the Wheels Project, which gets children working on restoring cars. The other is Enemy of Boredom, which is a brilliant thing, getting children video gaming while learning at the same time. What is amazing is that they do only half a day a week there, but it transforms their experience of mainstream education. They are much better when they get back to the classroom, because they have had focused attention on something they love doing. Does my hon. Friend agree that we ought to do more of that?”
“I hope the Minister will join me in congratulating Bristol East’s Lost and Grounded Brewers, which has just appeared on the list of the eight best breweries in Britain in The Times . He may recall that just before the Budget, I brought another Bristol East brewery, Left Handed Giant, to meet him and other Ministers at No. 11, where it made very clear the pressures facing the hospitality sector. Can he give me assurances that, as a first step, we need to sort out the revaluation shambles? Can he also ensure that the consideration of a differential rate of VAT, as we see in so many other countries on the continent, is also on the Treasury’s radar?”