Sir Iain Duncan Smith
MP for Chingford and Woodford Green · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I raise the cases of Ryan Cornelius and Jimmy Lai—both United Kingdom citizens—to the attention of the Foreign Secretary, who I welcome to his position. Ryan Cornelius has been incarcerated for 19 years—trumped-up charges by a corrupt regime that is supporting a war in Sudan at the moment.”
“Has the Secretary of State been made aware of the case of Joshua Wong, a Hong Kong resident who is being prosecuted by the Administration in Hong Kong using the national security law?”
“A particular memory is that during the Maastricht debates, when, I have to confess, I and one or two others here were deeply rebellious, Ann lectured me from the Dispatch Box—she was in government—about how I should support the Maastricht treaty and the European Union, which rather worried me.”
“It was phenomenal, because she was so certain about the way that she was. Ann embodied something else: the passion that is necessary for us in this Chamber to make our arguments without the fear of any other person doing something to us.”
“We need to reiterate, and the Government and the Home Secretary need to specify, to all the social media companies that they must do something to close down the visceral, violent language that some people use in attacking others personally, as they did over Ann’s murder, which shocked me.”
“Friday was a funny day. I heard the news very early in the morning that Ann had died, and I was utterly surprised about that because she had seemed perfectly fit the last time I saw her, so I gave my condolences and spoke about it on the radio.”
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“It is despite the fact that he knows nobody trusts him with the economy, which is why he looks more and more like an angry Mr Potato Head. It really is appalling and the idea that the alternative to the Chancellor is the shadow Chancellor is, frankly, enough to make one leave the country.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on arriving at a really good statement: the aspiration nation. She is absolutely right, and the fact that she has come across it herself is testament to her brilliance on the Back Benches. This is about an aspiration nation, and the alternative—as somebody just remarked to me—is Mr Potato Head to infinity and beyond on borrowing. That is about the end of it. The Budget also includes further measures, which I want to go through because some are really good.”
“When somebody at work is finding it difficult, we want the companies involved earlier to ensure that something is done to change the situation. That tax relief is important, as is the tax relief on social investment bonds. Sir Ronald Cohen has said that there is potentially a huge market for investment in social projects, and huge potential for bringing investors and some of the wealthier people in society back into contact with, and helping, areas of society that have damage and difficulty. Such investment can help to get kids off drugs or help with rehabilitating people from prisons. The measure will be a huge incentive, and I am pleased that we are consulting on it.”
“That tax help will drive change on one of the big problems we have had—we have talked with Dame Carol Black and Mr Frost about this—namely, that too many companies leave people who have difficulties to slide through their sickness and fall out eventually into incapacity benefit or, currently, employment and support allowance. We are trying to get companies to work with us on that review to ensure that they do much more to intervene earlier with help and support to try to resolve problems before people crash out of work and fall on to the benefits system. I hope that the sickness absence review will be fully supported on both sides of the House, and that that tax measure starts to get us ahead of the problem, which is where we always want to be.”
“Looking at the television was enough to give me the idea. I am glad the hon. Gentleman agrees that the shadow Chancellor more and more resembles angry Mr Potato Head. By introducing an employment allowance, we will reduce the amount that 1.25 million businesses pay in national insurance contributions each year, and take 450,000 small employers out of national insurance altogether. That is a huge measure, and really important for small businesses, which, as we know, drive most of our employment. Through tax reliefs both for social investment and for businesses that help employees to return to work after sickness, we are incentivising interventions that prevent long-term social problems. The sickness absence review on which the Government have led is really important.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on being picked out in the Budget—it is not often that people are picked out in a Budget. He should shake hands with the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt). He was angry before the Budget, but waved his Order Paper to applaud the Chancellor during his speech. I do not blame the hon. Gentleman, because he helped to change opinion— [ Interruption. ] I apologise. I do not want to talk about that too much because he has a career ahead of him—I hope. Finally, in a welcome move, we are raising personal tax allowances to £10,000 by the end of the Parliament. That measure, which is a result of a good coalition agreement, means that working families pay £700 less in tax than when the Government took office, and that almost 3 million more of the lowest earners will pay no income tax at all.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend and thank him for reminding me that we need to centre the measure down to constituency level, so that hon. Members know what it does. With my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, I will endeavour to ensure that every constituency is informed about how many people will be lifted out of tax and how many will benefit.”
“Let me finish my point. That is one coalition measure of which I, as a Conservative, am incredibly proud. I am incredibly proud that we struck that agreement, and that, a year early, before the end of the Parliament, we will raise the threshold to £10,000. That will do more for poorer people who are struggling to make ends meet than almost anything the previous Government did. I should remind the House that they did exactly the opposite. They got rid of the 10p tax rate. They tried to pretend that that was somehow a tax cut, only to find that they spent billions of pounds—borrowed billions—to try to rectify it.”
“The previous Government allowed wealthy people to boast that they paid less tax than their cleaners. We need take no lectures on upper rate tax from the Opposition.”
“During the passage of our last Bill, we were clear about who was winning and losing in those circumstances, and I am happy to engage with the hon. Gentleman on that. There are two important things to remember. The Opposition go on about this, but the reality is that in every year of this Government, the wealthiest in society—the top 1%—will pay nearly a quarter of all income tax, and the top 5% will pay nearly half of all tax. The richest will pay more in every single year of this Parliament than they would have paid under the previous Government’s plans. The 14,000 people in the UK who earn more than £1 million a year will pay £14.2 billion in tax this year. Conservatives did not say that they were pleased for people to be filthy rich; Labour did.”
“The reality—the right hon. Gentleman needs to get his head around this—is that those who engage with universal credit, all the way up the scale, will be better off than they would have been going back to work under all the measures in place at the moment.”
“I seem to recall that, under the previous Government, the then Chancellor had to admit that his changes to VAT were a complete disaster and made no difference to anybody. Most companies ended up spending more money trying to make alterations. The reality is that the previous Government should have increased the personal tax allowance threshold to £10,000, but they never did. I would love to hear the Opposition welcome that measure rather than carp about it.”
“We know about the incredible stealth taxing under the previous Government. Their tax on pension funds meant that they were worse off by £100 billion, which sounded the death knell for defined benefit pensions. The previous Prime Minister, who, as I have said, got rid of the 10p starting rate, did more to punish people than we would ever expect from a Labour Government.”
“I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman, although I understand fully what he says. I keep all benefit changes under review, but people have been told for more than a year that they are the families that will come under the benefit cap when it comes in on 1 April. A large number of those families are now heading back to work and taking jobs. That is what we are seeing—the figures will be released. It is remarkable how many people are moving to control their own situation. I remind the House and the hon. Gentleman that, despite all that is said, the benefit cap is set at the average earnings in Britain. Many people who are not on benefits have to cope with that.”
“There will be better provision for those with broken contributions, such as women and those with caring responsibilities. Some 700,000 women who reach state pension age in the 10 years after the single tier is introduced will receive £9 per week more on average. Implementing it in 2016 will benefit an additional 85,000 women who will now retire under single tier. The single-tier pension is one of the big reforms, alongside universal credit, that will transform the landscape. It pays to work and it will now pay to save.”
“Michelle Mitchell, the charity director general of Age UK, said: “The government’s proposals for a single tier state pension could help transform retirement for future pensioners, bringing clarity and stability to a system which is currently opaque and unfair.” In 2020, three quarters of new pensioners will get a higher state pension following the introduction of single tier. That will benefit those who have historically had poorer state pension outcomes in particular. There will be better provision for the low-paid. Some 60% of low-income pensioners will see their income in retirement increase by 2040, compared with the current system. Critically, there will be better provision for the self-employed, who, for the first time in about 40 years, will be treated the same as employees for the purposes of state pension retirement.”
“We are replacing the complicated two-tier system of the basic state pension, additional state pension and the other outdated add-ons with a single flat-rate payment. That means that people will know what they are entitled to and will be able to project forward so that they know what they need to save. They will know that what they save will go above the line and that they will be able to use every pound; it will not be means-tested away so that they cannot use it. At £144 a week, the new state pension will be set above the level of the means test. We are ending the unfairness whereby many people reach state pension age, having scrimped and saved all their life, only to find that others, who did not make any effort, get the same income through the pension credit. That is unfair. This change is about fairness and making saving pay.”
“Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), who has been instrumental in driving that forward. If anyone is able to say at the end of this Parliament, “I made a difference,” it will be him. I will ensure that his name is remembered for that. We are successfully rolling out auto-enrolment, which will help up to 9 million people get into a workplace pension scheme. That is important as it will make saving the norm. However, auto-enrolment will not work unless it pays to save. That is the key problem that the Minister and I have been discussing endlessly. What is the incentive to save? Too many people in Britain have been spending rather than saving. The single-tier pension is all about solving that problem.”
“Rather than advice, I will take that to be an instruction, gently and eloquently given. I can crawl with the best of them—I hope better than my opposite number, but he will make his own attempt. I will make progress and try to be quicker. I will talk briefly about the single-tier changes for which we are legislating. They are not just about improving the prospects of workers today, but about securing their position as they enter retirement. I am enormously pleased that the Chancellor confirmed that the single-tier pension will start in April 2016, which is in keeping with our original timetable. That means that after 60 years of modifications and tinkering, we will deliver a vital overhaul of the pensions system as soon as possible. I pay tribute to the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon.”
“Finally, we are getting to grips with the housing benefit system, which the last Government allowed to run out of control. Housing benefit doubled in 10 years. We are dealing with the problems that we inherited.”
“With respect, I am under the eye of Mr Speaker. Although he is invariably generous, given his admonition, I will make a little more progress to ensure that I finish on time. Universal credit makes it pay to work. Alongside universal credit sits universal jobmatch, an online job searching and matching service that is revolutionising the way in which people look for work. Two million people are already registered. It is already allowing us to segment those who are out of work so that we can deal with the people who are the most difficult to get into work earlier than we could before. From April, we will begin to replace disability living allowance with the fairer and more objective personal independence payment. We are also improving employment opportunities for disabled people so that they can live independent lives.”
“It pays to save. The Chancellor’s Budget delivers sound public finances and a fairer deal for working families. It has all the right elements and I commend it to the House.”
“Absolutely. Our dramatic changes will allow savings to be made for the right reasons, such as improving efficiency. The system will be simpler and easier, so people will understand it better. The lack of complication will help to save more. In conclusion, the Labour Opposition vote against our reforms again and again. On welfare alone, they have voted against savings of £80 billion. That money needs to come from somewhere. They do not say where it would come from, apart from borrowing. Once again, that is backward logic: borrow more to cut borrowing; spend more to cut spending. Meanwhile, the Government are changing the culture of welfare and Government spending in the country. We are backing people who want to work hard and get on in life, and taking bold action to ensure that we succeed in the global race. It pays to work.”
“The right hon. Gentleman is doing his usual trick of trying to rabbit around the figures and then arrive at an insoluble conclusion. He says that there are difficulties and complains about borrowing, but his prescription is to spend more and to borrow more. Will he please explain who agrees with him that we should spend more and borrow more when our problem is borrowing and our problem is a deficit?”
“Let me make two things clear. Unemployment is at a lower rate than when we took over in 2010, and there are more people in work than ever before. It is no good the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) harking back to 2008—Labour bust the economy in 2008-09, which led to this problem, and youth unemployment was rising. The right hon. Gentleman said that he is supported by the IMF. Let me quote Christine Lagarde, who said “when I think back myself to May 2010, when the UK deficit was at 11% and I try to imagine what the situation would be like today if no such fiscal consolidation”— the one we are carrying out— “programme had been decided... I shiver.” She shivers at the problems caused by the previous Government and what they would have done.”
“I will hold the right hon. Gentleman to those words when we publish the next figures, because the Work programme will be proven to be a remarkable success. As the Work programme becomes a success, it will actually save the taxpayer money, because none of the companies are paid unless they get people into work for six months. He knows full well that his Government’s programmes were expensive and failed: unemployment rose dramatically, and youth unemployment was rising from as early as 2004, when the economy was meant to be growing.”
“First, I can absolutely commit to the fact that there are no targets for any sanctions whatsoever. To emphasise that, I should point out that the head of Jobcentre Plus has issued a reminder to everybody in the estate that there are no targets and that there will be no targets, and that anybody using those targets will be disciplined. It was the last Government, not this Government, who set up a target culture; we are breaking with that culture. I see the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) in her place. The work they do in that jobcentre is remarkable at getting people back to work. They have accelerated and improved their performance. I would love to hear the shadow Secretary of State say to those working hard in jobcentres, “Well done for the work you do in getting record numbers back to work.””
“There are no targets for sanctions. There will be no targets. Anybody caught imposing a target will be dealt with. That is absolutely clear. That message has already gone out. It went out before on innumerable occasions. The target culture was under the right hon. Gentleman’s Government. I am sorry that the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) did not say one word about the good work being done by staff in her jobcentre. She owes it to them to remind everybody that they are doing a brilliant job in difficult times and have improved their performance dramatically.”
“May I just remind the right hon. Gentleman—as far as I can see he lives in cloud cuckoo land most of time—that under the last Government housing benefit bills doubled and were set to rise to more than £25 billion this year? We are saving a minimum of £2 billion from that rise. Under Labour the bill would have gone up and we had the lowest house building programme since the 1920s. Really, he should stand up and apologise for the shambles and the mess they left housing in.”
“Will the hon. Lady answer this question? If she is so against this, why is she in favour of people having spare rooms subsidised by the taxpayer? Why did her party’s Government refuse to allow the same thing in relation to private sector social tenancies?”
“I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. Youth unemployment is lower than when the previous Government left office and there are more people in work than ever before. He is extolling the virtues of our localisation agenda, and I congratulate him on that. I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman about a simple point. He has laid out for the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) and others why his party will, by and large, not vote against the Bill. In doing so, he has said constantly how much he opposes emergency legislation and how terrible it is. Will he confirm that under Labour, there were 12 cases of emergency legislation being brought through this House in a hurry? Is he not crying crocodile tears on that point?”
“It is also about changing culture: finding out whether someone is working and not declaring it; and getting people used to the idea of getting out of bed in the morning and attending somewhere where they do what they have been asked to do, because they have so got out of the habit of doing that, that even attending an interview has become a problem for them. This is not just about training; it is about getting people culturally back in line so that they can then be dealt with by advisers.”
“I am listening carefully to what my right hon. Friend has to say. As the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Mr Hoban), has made clear and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State will make clear, all of these things are kept constantly under review. We want to improve them and that is what jobcentre staff do. They are brilliant at that, by the way, and they get better and better. My point on mandatory work activity is that it is not just work experience.”
“I am listening to what the right hon. Gentleman has to say, but it sounds a little rich coming from him. From his time in government, he and others well know that sometimes the view of judges is very different from a lot of other legal advice. The reality is that by saying that this is incompetence he must be claiming that his own Government were deeply incompetent throughout their time in office.”
“There are about 400,000 working age households on housing benefit in under-occupied social housing in Great Britain who require just one bedroom according to the size criteria. There are more than 1.1 million one-bedroom properties in the social rented sector in England and 730,000 one-bedroom properties in the private rented sector. The availability of housing varies from area to area and is constantly changing. During 2011-12, there were about 112,000 new lettings of one-bedroom properties in England in the social rented sector alone.”
“My hon. Friend makes an important point. As the law stands, when a local authority agrees that a family needs an extra bedroom because their child’s disability means that they are unable to share, the family can be entitled to the spare room subsidy in respect of that extra bedroom. As with housing benefit claims, the determination of whether their disability requires them to have an extra bedroom is a matter for the local authority to decide with the help of DWP guidance and medical evidence. This week we will issue final guidance to local authorities on a number of areas, including this one, that will confirm the position that the judgment in Burnip, Trengove and Gorry applies to both the social rented sector and the private rented sector.”
“As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have made discretionary payments of £5 million available for foster carers to ensure that that does not happen. The effect for foster carers, as we move forward, will be that they will not have to change the number of rooms or their property as they will be able to remain there and to foster. That is what the policy will be.”
“As I have just explained, one of those categories—severely disabled children—is covered and the guidance coming out tomorrow will make it very clear that we will apply that judicial judgment across the board to children with severe disabilities who need that extra room as they are unable to share. I shall keep everything under review and I guarantee to my hon. Friend that we will ensure that the intent of the change is bound up in how it takes effect in so far as the spare rooms will be kept for those who need them. Honestly, however, when so many houses have spare rooms and when so many people are in queues to get housing, it would seem wrong to go on subsidising everybody to stay the same.”
“The purpose of the policy is to readjust the disparity that exists and that lay there under the previous Government. Local housing allowance for social tenants in the private rented sector does not and did not allow people to have spare rooms. In the social sector there are a large number of houses that people occupy without occupying all the rooms, so the purpose is to get that smoothed out. A number of councils have people waiting for housing, people in overcrowding, while others are subsidised to have spare rooms in housing that they do not need.”
“The Opposition know what they have been about over the past few weeks. They have deliberately set about trying to confuse people with their ridiculous title. They have tried to confuse people that they will all come under this change, when only those on housing benefit will be affected, and they also seemed to indicate to many others, such as pensioners, that they were not exempt. They are exempt.”
“I do wish the hon. Gentleman would get his facts right. Convicted prisoners are not exempt, so he is wrong. With respect, he does not know the difference between someone on remand and someone convicted— [Interruption.]”
“With respect, Mr Speaker, the hon. Gentleman’s noise covers a complete lack of intelligence. That is what I would say. Let me bring something forward— [Interruption.] No, monkeys can jump around, but the noise they make is not necessarily relevant. Let me tell the hon. Gentleman about his own area. In Dudley, which I think he might know, the National Housing Federation estimates that there are 2,000 households under-occupying—in other words, with spare rooms. It also estimates that there are 1,500 families in overcrowded accommodation. In other words, if property is properly managed, we might get those who are overcrowded into decent-size accommodation. When will the Opposition moan about that?”
“My Department plays a vital role in the cross-Government programme to turn around the lives of our most troubled families, a matter on which the hon. Lady has a long track record. Although I have not received any representations on sharing data on missing children, as we do not deal with them particularly, we are committed to building a clearer picture across Government of how many children are missing from care and where they go. We will begin piloting new arrangements shortly.”
“Yes. I congratulate the hon. Lady on focusing on this across all the Departments, as I am aware that she has asked this question to a number of Departments. She is absolutely right. We do need to co-ordinate much better between Departments. As she knows, this is an historical issue for different Governments. The Department for Education chairs the data working group, which includes the Home Office, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and the Children’s Society. I understand that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government is also involved. That should help to improve the collection and publication of data. The pilot will begin shortly to see that we sort this out. She is right that we must do more to improve data as part of the missing children strategy and make sure that we get it right.”
“In June last year the Prime Minister commenced a debate on the cost to the taxpayer of meeting the £2 billion bill for automatic entitlement to housing benefit for people aged under 25. Although that is not current Government policy, I have had a number of representations on the issue—not from the Opposition, but from others.”
“My hon. Friend is right that the bill for under-25s in receipt of housing benefit is in the order of £2 billion a year. Some 370,000 under-25s claim housing benefit, and 42% of them are without children. However, the reality is that when we looked at that in the round prior to the spending review, it was agreed that it was not a priority area for the coalition. No doubt he will continue to campaign for it to be a priority area, and I am very happy to discuss the matter with him.”
“I do not believe that there is any need to compensate anybody. We have already told all those councils that they are not guinea pigs; they are actually getting very close support and advice. I think that it will be a tremendous success story. What they are doing is learning, along with us, about any issues that might arise, and we have already said very clearly that we will support them through any extra costs and expenses. The right hon. Gentleman’s party has to recognise that the reality is that the cap is right. The public support it because they are tired of seeing people getting more on benefits than those who are in work, so setting the cap is right. He needs to ask why his party keeps voting against it.”
“Yes, I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend and any group of people, such as the YMCA, he wishes to bring to me. I simply say this: we have a significant problem, because we inherited a welfare budget approaching £200 billion that had risen out of control under the previous Government. He is fully aware that we have to reform it both to get people back to work and to ensure that we get the cost under control. Those are all areas we have looked at, but in those discussions we decided that, in the round, it was not a priority.”
“The right hon. Gentleman knows very well that that is the point of discretionary housing payments— [ Interruption. ] Opposition Members can groan, but we have put more money into discretionary payments to sort these things out than they ever did when they brought these in. The reality is that there is money for them to do just that. I remind him that the National Housing Federation has estimated that in his area of Newham some 3,000 people are under-occupying and some 5,000 are overcrowded. Perhaps he would like to take his own side to task for never doing a thing for those struggling in overcrowded accommodation.”
“People who are unable to receive benefit payments through a bank or building society account are paid under the new simple payment. The service is easily accessible and is available free of charge and over the counter at more than 10,000 PayPoint outlets across the UK. The phased roll-out of simple payment began in October 2012 and we are closely monitoring the service to ensure that people can access their payments.”