Sir Jeremy Wright
MP for Kenilworth and Southam · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I applaud my right hon. Friend’s passion and clarity on this issue. On the subject of democratic accountability, he knows that if, as the hon.”
“I welcome the intent that the Secretary of State has set out this afternoon, and the urgency with which she will require the relevant companies to act.”
“The Electoral Commission has made no formal assessment of this. It would be a matter for Parliament to introduce such legal protections. It is prescribed in law that poll cards and ballot papers must be provided in English or Welsh, but there are no other prescribed language requirements relating to election materials.”
“We can all cynically speculate about the reasons why this sudden about-turn has taken place this week, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), who spoke from the Front Bench, said earlier, it is our job to scrutinise this legislation and to ensure that whatever we put in place does justice to the determination o…”
“In today’s version of the amendment paper, for the first time, that amendment has disappeared and been replaced not with the detailed compromise that Intelligence and Security Committee members, who have been engaged with this process, have been working towards, along with many others, but with Government amendment 157.”
“As the House would expect, we engaged with that process as diligently as we could, with no partisan politics, in an effort to make good law in the pursuit of greater state transparency while preserving our national security equities. As the hon.”
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“If patients were to decide to secure certain information privately and not have it disclosed, they would do so using the so-called sealed envelope technology that has been talked about. The Government rely heavily on the existence of that technology to reassure patients that information that they do not want widely accessed will not be. It is therefore concerning, as the Committee has said, that the technology is not yet ready. Surely it would have been better to conduct the pilot schemes of the system when that technology was available, so that it could be tested in its entirety. As has been observed today, the pilots are already two years late. As the hon.”
“Some of the information registered on the SCR with implied consent, especially on medications, will allow the educated observer to draw certain conclusions. She gave one example, and others might be antiretrovirals and even antidepressants. I can imagine that the Minister might say that people in the position that the hon. Lady described could say, “I do not wish to have a summary care record at all.” I understand that, but I share her concern and that of others who have spoken that it might not be apparent to patients that they have that option. It seems incumbent on the Government to ensure that it is made clearly available to patients, so that they can take it if they wish.”
“I understand that patients cannot opt out of it and ask that their biographical data should not be logged on the system. Given its nature, one assumes that that information will be accessed by clinicians frequently, which will create an audit trail. Much along the lines of the point that the hon. Lady made on medication, viewing that audit trail and understanding which clinicians have accessed a particular patient’s information will give the educated observer good clues to the conditions from which a patient might be suffering. Will the Minister tell us to what extent that audit trail will be accessible and viewable? Others have mentioned the summary care record, and again I return to a point that the hon. Lady rightly made.”
“Otherwise, it seems to me that they will not. It is not just patients who need reassurance about the Government’s competence to handle data properly. The hon. Member for Romsey (Sandra Gidley) made that point. I am sorry to have to tell her that doctors’ confidence in that has got even worse since the surveys that she mentioned. The most recent that I have seen, conducted by the BMA, I believe this month or perhaps at the end of last month, asked: “Do you have confidence in the government's ability to safeguard patient information on a national NHS database?” Some 93 per cent. of respondents said no, so there is clearly a problem. I wish to deal with some elements of the electronic patient record in a little more detail, and I hope the Minister will be able to assist with some of them. The first is the personal demographics service.”
“I think that I have dealt with why the report was not unanimous as fully as you would wish me to, Mr. Weir. I agree with others that it was regrettable that that was the case, but it would not be productive now to go into why it was. However, we can have the argument today, and I am happy to engage in it. In discussing whether there should be a review, it is right to say that the Minister should commit to finding a way to deal with the genuine concerns about the security of the system. I accept that there will inevitably be operational constraints to explaining in detail what might be wrong with its security, and we can all understand the obvious reasons for that, but I am sure that it is not impossible for the Minister to undertake that the public can be reassured in some detail about why they should have confidence in the database.”
“I am sure that the Minister accepts that someone might decide, on balance, to have an SCR rather than not have one, because they feel that their concerns are outweighed by the advantages of having such a record. It would not be right to use the statistics that he quoted to eliminate the possibility of people’s concerns. Those concerns are real.”
“Is the Minister not concerned about the point that the hon. Member for Romsey and I have made about the late arrival of the sealed envelope technology? He has just referred to a large number of patients who are now having their details put on to a summary care record. None of those patients currently have the opportunity to restrict access to any information that is there by implied consent, because the sealed envelope technology is not yet available. Is that not a serious concern?”
“The Minister has not dealt with my point about the potential for sharing information on the NHS database across Government. He will recognise that that is of concern to a great many people who may be prepared to supply the information to the NHS, but may be concerned about which other Departments might use that information and for what purpose. What intentions, if any, do the Government have in respect of sharing that information across Departments?”
“I welcome the fact that the stop form is to be scrapped, but it should never have been introduced in the first place. May I take the Secretary of State back to an issue raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis), the shadow Home Secretary: the civilianisation of police functions? Does she accept that doing that might lead to the resilience of police forces in emergency situations being weakened, and will she reassure us that anything that is done to improve day-to-day efficiency will not undermine the capacity of police forces to respond in emergencies by bringing officers from back-office functions back on to front-line duties?”
“The Prime Minister will recognise that when the prosecuting authorities in criminal courts wish to avoid the disclosure of an observation site, for example, they can make an application under the public interest immunity procedure. If that application is unsuccessful, they always have the option of not proceeding with the prosecution. As that system already exists and works well, could not any adaptation of it necessary for the use of intercept evidence be done sooner rather than later, given that the Government have—rightly, in my view—decided that this proposal is a good idea?”
“On the specific issue of whether this is a negotiating success, may I refer the Home Secretary back to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison), from which she was very keen to move on? Is not the fact of the matter that the Government have negotiated a situation that allows the UK to withdraw from some of the arrangements, but only at a price? That price will be determined by a qualified majority vote on the recommendation of the Commission—a decision in which the UK will not be involved.”
“I, too, congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. On the burden on the national health service, does he agree that one problem that arises frequently is that older people who are admitted to hospital for a physical injury are then discovered also to have mental conditions. The physical injury, such as a broken hip resulting from a fall, often accelerates the mental condition that was previously undiagnosed.”
“The hon. Gentleman may know that the all-party group on dementia, which I chair, will begin in the next month or so an inquiry into precisely the point that he raises about the use of neuroleptic or anti-psychotic drugs that are designed primarily for the treatment of schizophrenia, not dementia or other mental illnesses of the elderly. Does he agree that one of the most important issues to resolve is that drug prescriptions should be for the right drugs for the right period for the right conditions, and not simply to keep elderly mentally ill patients quiet for the benefit of staff and other residents?”
“People in Rugby want to be able to get on the train at Rugby and to go to the places to which they want to go.”
“There is a tension, if not a conflict, that we must resolve. If we are to develop a fast rail line, as the west coast main line will be, of course it is right that there will be a tension between getting people from one end to the other as quickly as possible while simultaneously stopping the train at all the places where people wish to get on and off. I understand that. However, it does not seem that it can possibly be right that the improvements to the west coast main line could so effectively bypass the people of Rugby, who have suffered so much in making them happen. We have seen all the work on the track and the new station being put up, but there is little point in those improvements for those who live in or travel from Rugby if all they achieve is the quicker passage of other people through their town.”
“For those who live in or travel from Rugby, that is not necessarily the case. The Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Glasgow, South (Mr. Harris), knows my points, because I have made them to him before. He will be relieved to hear that I shall not go through all the detail again. He understands my case. The problem is that the overruns in engineering work and disruption affect people in Rugby as much, if not more so, as everyone else. However, those people do not have the prospect of a better service when it is all done. The 2009 timetable shows that not only will there arguably be a less good service down to London and back at peak times, but the services from Rugby to the north-west and Scotland—hon. Members have mentioned them in particular—will be noticeably worse.”
“I am sorry to say that no Member of this House—or anyone else—has been able to do so effectively for a long time. My interest as the Member of Parliament for Rugby is not only in the level of disruption in and around Rugby and its effect on Rugby’s reputation, but in what the disruption and its consequences mean for the people whom I represent. One of the problems that the level of disruption throws up is that those who live in Rugby or travel from Rugby station see an awful lot of down sides in the disruption caused by the upgrading of the west coast main line. They cannot rely, as perhaps others elsewhere in the country can, on the hopeful prospect that one day it will all be wonderful and that they will be able to get up and down the country easily and much more quickly.”
“After the first announcement of the engineering overrun, the Virgin Trains website said that although people could not travel on new year’s eve and new year’s day, for which the company was sorry, their tickets would be valid on Wednesday and Thursday. It quickly became apparent that rail travel on Wednesday and Thursday was not going to happen, either. That made Virgin Trains look foolish. The company would have made that announcement based on information that it was given by Network Rail. If that information was wrong, we need to understand why it was wrong and why Network Rail did not give out accurate information about when it realistically expected the line to reopen. I have said that normally it is a pleasure to hear about my constituency in the national media or anywhere else, because it is an attractive place to visit.”
“One has to wonder whether managers made a clear calculation that the works would inevitably overrun by more than was acceptable and that the company would be fined, but that it would be easier and cheaper to pay the fine than to do what was necessary to get the work done on time. That is what the Office of the Rail Regulator will investigate, and we all—especially the residents of Rugby—look forward to the conclusions of that investigation. It seems to me that we have to ask such questions. Another question that should fairly be asked of Network Rail is about the information that it gave to the train operating companies. Virgin Trains suffered hugely as a result of the overrun and was not given adequate information at adequate times.”
“The management has given me and others the explanation that when they talked to the limited supply of skilled engineers and electricians who had the knowledge and expertise to deal with the overhead lines—which is what needed to be done—they all said that they had made other plans for the new year celebrations. One can understand that to an extent, although it should have been anticipated. However, the line did not reopen until 4 January. What went on in the Network Rail management offices that meant that they did not make adequate provision to ensure that the line opened almost immediately after the new year?”
“When we consider what we definitely know, it is apparent that Network Rail management knew—certainly by 21 December, and probably a long time before—that there would be significant problems in the area around Rugby. However, it is not apparent what, if anything, management decided to do about it. Those are the relevant questions not only for the regulator to address when the inquiry begins, but ultimately for the Government and the Secretary of State to address. On 21 December, when Network Rail realised that the engineering work around Rugby was due to run into new year’s eve, what did it do? What action did it take? What did it do when it realised that the work would overrun beyond new year’s eve?”
“Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller), who is sadly no longer in his place, that the project was very big, and it is inevitable that things go wrong in such projects. However, it is not inevitable that things should go wrong to such an extent, nor that it should take so long to put them right. That is what we need to focus on when we discuss what happened. I also agree with the hon. Members for Stroud (Mr. Drew) and for Lewes (Norman Baker) that the explanation that Network Rail has given is, in large part, that it simply did not have enough skilled labour to get the job done, not just around Rugby but elsewhere on the network. I understand that, and it is a reasonable point to make, but we have to ask at what point that became apparent to Network Rail, and therefore when it should have decided to do something about it.”
“It is almost always a pleasure to hear the name of my constituency on the national media, but that was not the case over the Christmas and new year period. All the adjectives that hon. Members have used to describe what happened during that period are justified and I shall not repeat them all. What occurred was obviously unacceptable. It was a chronic failure of management and, to be fair to Network Rail, it has accepted that. We do not need to argue about whether what went wrong over Christmas and new year was or was not a bad failure of management by Network Rail: it admits that. The question is in what way it failed and whether we can ensure that it does not fail again. I agree with the hon.”
“They may see a shiny track, and they may even glimpse a train passing through their stations at 125 mph, but that is not what they are looking for. That is why the answers to the questions that have been posed this afternoon matter. I hope that the response from the Office of Rail Regulation will answer those questions. The Government must take on board the points made—very fairly—by Opposition Members in this debate about the structure of Network Rail. However, I hope that the Minister will also look at how the rail network as a whole is structured, and at how it can be made to operate for the benefit of people up and down the country over the next few years.”
“We all accept that the project was a big one, but we have to understand why Network Rail’s management failed so badly. We need to know what went wrong, and to make sure that we can look people in the eye when we tell them, “Use the railways, they are a good way to get around.” At the moment, I do not think that I can look my constituents in the eye and say that. I do not imagine that the hon. Member for Lewes or my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield can do so either. Those of us with constituencies along the west coast main line are all in the same position, because a terrible mess has been made of improving the rail system so that people can get around the country. Even when the disruption is over, people along the west coast main line will not see an improvement in their rail service.”
“Member for Lewes was right to say that people will put up with a bit of inconvenience once in a while when they understand that a big project has to be carried out, but that they will not do so over and over again. They will not put up with inadequate information, or with being told one thing one day and something else the next. If such episodes become more frequent, people will revert to the sort of behaviour that we do not want them to adopt—they will get back into their cars and drive, instead of taking the train. It will then be much more difficult to persuade them to leave their cars behind and try the railway again when the work is done and the service is as fantastic as we all hope that it will be. Many legitimate questions have been raised in the debate about the terrible incidents over the turn of the year.”
“I agree, and I was about to say that one of the most important things about access to Rugby is that it means that people are able to enjoy the town and everything that it has to offer. That is especially true for passengers from the north-west, and I look forward to my hon. Friend travelling to Rugby regularly when he and I have succeeded in persuading the Minister that there should be a better stopping service on the west coast main line. I understand the conflict facing the Minister. He does not have an easy task, but the problem is that those who have suffered the most from the terrible debacle on the west coast main line over the past few days are likely to benefit the least when the work is finished. That will cause greater resentment and make it more difficult to attract people onto the railways. The hon.”
“I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend. Does he accept that if Network Rail’s management themselves say that there has been a management failure, there is no need for the Government to look for any other explanation?”
“I welcome the Secretary of State’s recognition that CAMHS has a capacity problem. Following the comments of the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), may I ask the Secretary of State to recognise that there is a substantial segment of services that CAMHS cannot offer children and young people with mental health problems? I am thinking particularly of those who have experienced traumatic situations, for example. Will he ensure that the review will give adequate consideration to the funding that voluntary sector organisations need to provide the services that CAMHS will be unable to provide, even post-review?”
“Following the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Bone), does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is a serious problem with access to alcohol by young people from the corner shop or the paper shop, as he describes? One of the reasons why that is a problem is that that alcohol is being sold by people who may not be much older than those who are buying it. Unlike the supermarket environment, there is a difficulty because people who are on duty on their own in a corner shop are pressurised to sell alcohol when they should not.”
“On the consultation, did my hon. Friend see in the press over the weekend reports of a list of post offices intended to be closed in several counties? The list accidentally included several other counties, including Warwickshire, and several post offices in my constituency, including one in Kenilworth. Does he agree that it would be disgraceful if decisions had already been taken, in some cases before consultation has even begun?”
“My only caveat is that it seems equally sensible that the judge should make it clear to the jury that that option is available to every complainant in a rape case, so the jury does not have the sense that videotaped evidence marks out that particular case as distinctive, which might be prejudicial to the defendant. It seems to me that that would be a sensible safeguard. The other half of the argument is just as important, if not more so. It concerns how one assists those who complain of rape, through every stage of the process. I accept the Solicitor-General’s statement that it is helpful to have sexual assault referral centres. However, I wonder whether, in parts of the country where there are already very successful voluntary sector agencies providing just that type of support, it is really necessary to reinvent the wheel.”
“If the expert or experts provide a list of the types of behaviour in which a genuine rape victim may engage, the danger is that if a particular genuine rape victim, who is the prosecution’s main witness, has not demonstrated any of those types of behaviour, the jury might conclude that that person is not therefore a genuine rape victim. That is a real concern about the Government’s proposal. It would be wrong to conclude that the problem is necessarily within the trial process. Other hon. Members have already referred to the fact that the attrition rate is most severe in cases of rape before the case gets anywhere near a jury. I shall make one quick remark about videotaped evidence in chief, which, broadly speaking, I support—it seems sensible to extend that measure.”
“If the evidence is agreed between the parties, it seems to me that it must be equivocal—it must be the sort of evidence that will not tremendously assist the jury. If it is a question of two separate experts giving evidence on the likely behaviour of a rape victim, neither of those experts will be dealing with the specific set of circumstances that the jury is confronting in the case. That the evidence may not be of particular assistance to the jury in deciding the specific circumstances of the case is not the only issue, because the situation may be worse than that.”
“In view of the time and the number of hon. Members who want to speak, I will not go over ground that has already been covered, except to underline the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) that over hundreds of years in this country we have deliberately constructed a system of criminal justice where there is a chance that the guilty will go free, to avoid the prospect of the innocent being convicted. I do not believe that the Government intend to undermine that principle, but we should address the issue, like all others within the criminal justice system, with that in mind. I shall turn to what the Government want to do about what I accept is a real problem. The concept of general expert evidence causes me particular concern—I declare an interest as a non-practising criminal barrister.”
“I also hope that there is not a situation in which Government funding is allocated for the sexual assault referral centres, but money that could go to the voluntary sector to support the type of services that I have described is diverted into other services that simply replicate—or perhaps do not do as well as—the work that the organisations in my constituency and elsewhere do exceptionally well. I hope that in pursuing what I understand are well-meant efforts to deal with what I accept is a serious problem, the Solicitor-General does not throw the baby out with the bathwater and damage the best aspects of the British justice system or reinvent the wheel by making the state an inadequate substitute for what the voluntary sector already does well.”
“It is worth noting that that organisation in my constituency is the only organisation in Warwickshire that offers support not only at the time of a criminal proceeding, but for a long time thereafter, and not only to women, but to men, too. It is important to remember that the victims of rape or sexual abuse are male as well as female, and it is important to make sure that the provision of support and services is across the board and for both sexes. I hope very much that the Solicitor-General can help me with that.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend that it is not helpful to approach such serious matters in a partisan manner. As my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield has said, it is regrettable that the Solicitor-General engaged in doing that earlier. I want to conclude by discussing the crucial question of the voluntary sector. In my constituency there is an organisation called Rugby ROSA—the Rugby rape or sexual abuse support project. That organisation provides first-class support to precisely the people whom we have been discussing throughout this debate. It will run out of money and shut down entirely in March, unless something substantial is done. I do not see why it is sensible for the Government to invest money in a new organisation when they could invest in existing voluntary sector bodies that do the same work just as well, if not better.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that part of the answer to the question asked by the hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Devine) is that we will build the extra prison places that we need, using the money for ID cards that we do not need?”
“Many of the offenders the Lord Chancellor is describing will have received indeterminate sentences of imprisonment for public protection. Does he accept that in many ways those sentences contribute to the prison overcrowding problem? As he knows, it is necessary for offenders serving them to complete courses to demonstrate their suitability for release. As he also knows, those courses are not available in every prison, and transfers to prisons where they are available sometimes take a very long time. That means that people are incarcerated for longer than expected and longer even than the court that sentenced them intended. Does he accept that that is a problem? If so, did the Government consider it when instituting those sentences, and what is to be done about it now?”
“Worse still would be to conceive a strategy, announce it, declare victory and move on to the next problem, because a resolution of the problems that dementia poses will require sustained engagement from all of us, but particularly from the Minister and the Government. The Minister knows that all those with dementia, all those who care for them and all those who advocate on their behalf have waited for the strategy and genuinely look forward to its publication. I hope very much that the Minister will do all that he can to ensure that when the strategy is revealed to them, they will not be disappointed.”
“We know from all our experiences with carers that if the quality of respite care is not high, it is no respite at all. Many carers have said to us that the worst weeks of their lives have been when they took a week’s holiday, went away and spent the entire time worrying about what was happening to the person for whom they care. Yes, we should have respite care—and more of it, by all means—but may we please ensure that the quality of that care is high? All the things that I have mentioned need to feature in the Government’s dementia strategy, which needs to make clear how they will be delivered. Simply setting goals and leaving it to health and social services authorities to decide how those goals may be met within existing budgets will not be sufficient.”
“Specifically, will there be a national dementia care services director, and will that decision be made before next summer, when the strategy is revealed? Among the final subjects that I want to touch on, necessarily briefly, are the emerging technologies that we all hope will make life better for dementia sufferers. I am talking about telecare and extra care housing. These developments are happening throughout the country, in different localities, and are very positive and welcome. In what ways will the strategy encourage those types of solution, appropriate to the local context? The last point, which is vital, concerns respite care. It is essential that respite care is available for dementia sufferers but, more than that, that the quality of that care is extremely high. This point is not unique to those who care for people with dementia.”
“The NHS operating framework for next year will be instituted in November or December of this year, substantially in advance of the publication date for the dementia strategy, so the question arises: how much of the preliminary research that will go into making up the dementia strategy will be made available to the NHS to use in determining that operating framework, so that the NHS can be influential in doing what is necessary and urgent to help dementia sufferers and their carers? We know, from what David Nicholson has already said to the Public Accounts Committee, that a national director’s position is under consideration. What else might be fed through to that operating framework in order for those changes to be made earlier, rather than later?”
“He was also asked when the appointment of such a national director might be considered and he confirmed that we might not have to wait until the Government’s dementia strategy is published. He said that “if we are not careful we will lose a whole year if we do not get something moving forward.” The point that the NHS chief executive was making is indicative of a wider point.”
“That can be an extremely lonely experience. In essence, dementia sufferers need the carer more and more as the carer loses more and more of them. That is an extremely difficult situation for carers to find themselves in. The Minister will recognise that any dementia strategy worthy of the name must offer practical help and assistance to those who care for people with dementia. It is also important to co-ordinate well what we do on dementia. Last week, at the Public Accounts Committee, the NHS chief executive was asked about the possibility of a national dementia care services director. His answers on that were positive. He said, in connection with experience on cancer: “We have found that having a national clinical director is an enormously powerful way in which to focus.” That must be right.”
“A substantial part of the huge cost to the nation that dementia brings with it is the time of carers, which is worth billions of pounds—money that the state would otherwise have to provide for that care. That, if there were no other reason, is a good reason to support those carers. Of course, carers of all types suffer a huge range of difficulties. This debate does not allow us the scope to go into all of those, but let me make the argument that those who care for dementia sufferers perhaps have it hardest of all, because caring for someone with dementia does not only place physical demands on the carer. That condition also erodes the emotional and conversational bond between the carer and the person cared for. In very many cases, we are talking about spouses or children where the rest of the family might be far away.”
“Members present—care admirably for those with the milder forms of dementia, with the support of the families concerned, despite not being technically registered places for dementia sufferers. We ought to be careful not to jeopardise the good care that is being delivered by being over-dogmatic on descriptions. We must go on to consider the two thirds of dementia sufferers who live in their own homes, looked after in the main by 476,000 unpaid carers. Those carers are, of course, a lifeline. They are the only thing that stands between the dementia sufferer and much more expensive, not to mention undesirable, admission to residential care, which is not looked for by anyone.”
“The NAO report says that half of people in residential care homes and two thirds of people in nursing homes have some form of dementia. It follows from that, inevitably, that training for staff in residential homes is essential. Sadly, that type of quality training is not widespread, and there are consequences, one of which, as the Minister well knows, is the serious concern about inappropriate administration of sedatives in care homes. There are no two ways about it: care home staff need to be properly equipped to deal with dementia. There are also too few specialist places. Again, on the NAO’s estimate, there are 124,000 registered places for 201,000 dementia sufferers. However, we have to be careful on this, because a good many care homes—in my constituency and, I am sure, in the constituencies of other hon.”
“Only 1.4 per cent. of research papers since 2002 have been on this subject. Between 2000-01 and 2004-05, in respect of the national research programmes, at least, funding for research dropped in cash terms from £12.9 million to £6.8 million and, as a percentage of the health budget, from 0.03 to 0.01 per cent. I accept that the Government increased funding last year, but still the UK spends 24p per citizen on research into dementia compared with, for example, the 66p per citizen that is spent in the United States. It is illogical that we should spend so much less on research into dementia than we do on research into other conditions that cost us, as a state, proportionately much less. One third of dementia sufferers live in a residential care home.”