Ed Davey
MP for Kingston and Surbiton · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“I associate myself with the Prime Minister’s opening remarks, not least about the 25th anniversary of the horrific terror attacks of 9/11. I welcome the Government finally banning imports from illegal Israeli settlements, something Keir Starmer should have done a long time ago.”
“I thank the Prime Minister for that answer. Britain should be the safest country in the world to have a baby. We will keep raising this issue until it is the safest.”
“No mother should have to give birth in such circumstances. Does the Prime Minister agree that Musgrove Park cannot wait until 2033 for work to start on a new maternity unit? Will he offer a meeting to local MPs, so we can move it forward? And will he make fixing the maternity scandal across our country a top priority of his Government?”
“I hope at that summit the Prime Minister will negotiate a good deal for our country, our economy and our defence, and that means rejoining the single market. North Devon’s maternity unit has been closed for three weeks due to staff shortages, so women now have to travel for up to two hours to give birth.”
“The Prime Minister said yesterday that Brexit ushered in “a decade of low growth and stalled regeneration.” —[ Official Report , 1 September 2026; Vol. 790, c. 27.] He is right. Our economy is stuck in this mess thanks to the Conservatives—and the leader of Reform UK—and their terrible Brexit deal.”
“There are so many more problems in our political system: too much power in the hands of social media barons who interfere in our politics and crypto billionaires who use donations to buy influence; and too little power in the hands of our people.”
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“From my local experience, I can recommend that strategic partnerships with key voluntary players, such as the CAB and the local council, can resolve such problems more easily.”
“This is a wider point that applies beyond Birmingham. I certainly agree that it is important that local authorities and citizens advice bureaux in these difficult times try to work together. I will talk about that in a moment, if I can make some progress. I can give a view from the heart. A few years ago in my constituency, my local council signed up to a three-year strategic partnership with Kingston CAB to ensure that it had stability of funding. That is one issue discussed in the debate. I understand that local authorities are under serious pressure at the moment, as are Government, Whitehall Departments and all those across the public sector. We have some difficult funding times, which is hardly a secret, and such long-term deals need to be seen in that context.”
“It is exceedingly important that those tough decisions are taken fairly and are implemented. Local authorities will have to face up to that issue—Birmingham city council, Kingston council and other councils as well. I shall give way to my hon. Friend, but I hope that he realises that I need to make progress after his intervention.”
“When I eventually get to that point in my speech, I will say that prior to today I was aware that there was transitional funding. I do not think that it has emerged in the past few minutes. [ Interruption. ] Labour Members need to hear this, because there is a backdrop to the debate, which is the record deficit that the Administration inherited. We have had to take very difficult decisions. One of the most difficult decisions I have had to take as Minister meant telling the chief executive of Citizens Advice that his budget—this was before Gillian Guy took over—had to be cut in-year by a significant percentage. I did not like having to deliver that decision, but I knew that we had to take tough decisions because we have such a difficult spending climate.”
“It is worth noting that, although all citizens advice bureaux are members of the national umbrella organisation, Citizens Advice, they operate independently. I am sure that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington will admit that at least. Their funding is determined locally. That is not new, but has been the case for many years under the previous Administration and the Administration before that. Funding is determined by the relevant local authority. That is how it should be, because the need for advice and such services varies dramatically across the country. I am sure that the needs of Birmingham are different from the needs of Kingston. There should not be any doubt about the fact that these should be local services.”
“It is very tempting to answer that question, but I shall make some progress. As a result of the financial difficulties, all councils must re-examine how services are organised and run—finding efficiencies and unlocking savings. We have sought to make that task easier by scrapping most ring-fencing constraints on councils’ funding, so they have greater freedom to manage resources in the best possible way. That involves joining up back-office functions, sharing chief executives and other senior managers, and cutting out the duplication and waste associated with procurement. Where possible, that should not mean cuts to front-line services. We say that not only to Birmingham city council, but to all local authorities.”
“I agree that funding from local authorities can be critical to how citizens advice bureaux plan budgets, so I do not disagree with the point that the hon. Lady has made.”
“The meeting, scheduled for Monday, will focus on discussing that. Those are positive developments, which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington did not touch on in his speech, and it is worth putting them on record because I hope they will result in a successful outcome. I am concerned that hasty decisions taken by councils now could lead to the unnecessary loss of important CAB services not only in Birmingham, but in other areas. I trust that, when local authorities work carefully with their citizens advice bureaux to strike up the strategic partnerships I talked about, that will not happen.”
“I would not want to prejudge the meetings that will happen over the next few days. It is up to individual councils such as Birmingham to work with partner organisations to sort out some of the difficulties. I understand that Birmingham city council has reviewed advice provision within the whole city and will be moving towards a new commissioning process in the summer. All the independent advice providers will be eligible to apply, and that will, of course, include the bureaux. I also understand that the council recognises that there may be short-term problems for some of the independent advice providers during the period until new contracts are awarded. I believe that it has a transition fund, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley referred, which might be used to help those organisations through that period.”
“The hon. Gentleman will know, I would have thought, that an independent study was done on how best to use the funding for illegal money lending teams. We have taken on the broad recommendations of that study. It suggested that a central team would be more effective and use the money better. The people in the north-east will still have the services of the illegal money lending teams.”
“The study concludes by saying that if a cap were to be constructed to take in the total cost of credit, including penalty charges and similar, more of those on low incomes would be likely to find access to mainstream options restricted or curtailed altogether. That is the only evidence I have seen that deals with this issue in detail. We have to assess these issues, because the hon. Lady’s proposals do not do what she claims. We need to gather evidence and properly assess it, and I reassure the House that we will do that. When we have analysed the evidence and got the results of consultations, we will report back to the House. We will not be afraid of taking tough measures if they are required.”
“We know that there have been studies carried out that show that an interest rate cap could have very detrimental impacts on the vulnerable—that was accepted by the previous Government. This year’s OFT review of the high-cost credit market ruled out not just interest rate caps, but any price controls in the market. The EU review that the hon. Lady prayed in aid is ambiguous on this, to say the least. A forthcoming study, which has not yet been published, has been undertaken by Policis. It has had the advantage of collaborating with Claire Whyley, chair of the credit sub-group of the Financial Inclusion Taskforce and chair of the FSA consumer panel, and Paul Jones, who is the leading expert on social lending.”
“Such measures will not be an immediate solution, but they could help those on low incomes even more than caps on high-cost credit. I come to the one specific issue that the hon. Member for Walthamstow wishes us to focus on: a cap on total credit. The motion calls on the Government to consider introducing a cap on the total cost that lenders can charge for credit. At first glance, that appears sensible. Yet, despite what she said, the evidence base for her new approach is limited, to say the very least. What seems sensible at first glance could have huge unintended consequences for those we are trying to help. Without a proper assessment of the evidence it would be rash and frankly negligent to rush into this proposal.”
“The Government want poor households to be able to strike a better balance between how they save, insure and access credit, and we are looking at a lot of ideas. For example, we believe that there are great gains to be had from collective purchasing. We are working with the insurance industry and social landlords to develop and promote affordable home contents insurance for social tenants. If those products succeed, they will enable many more households to claim back the cost of household emergencies, rather than relying on high-cost credit to replace essential goods if they are burgled or if a high-cost item, such as a washing machine breaks down. We hope that the trials of such products will commence in March or April this year.”
“However, we consider that it is an option that should remain open.” The Government have also launched a review of consumer credit and personal insolvency, which takes an end-to-end view from the decision to borrow to how we support people in difficult circumstances and help them to resolve their debt. It looks, for example, at the advertising of credit, which has been mentioned by several hon. Members. I cannot give any undertakings today about what will emerge as a result of those reviews, because we are still considering the evidence. Nothing has been decided and it would be irresponsible of me to stand here today pre-empting their results, but we are not afraid of taking action where the evidence justifies doing so. We will not hesitate to act where there is evidence of detriment to consumers or exploitation of them.”
“The review is an opportunity for us to look at how best to regulate consumer credit and who should have responsibility for that. We are consulting now and any new regulator may well end up with greater powers to intervene in the consumer credit market to introduce the powers that many here today are seeking. The FSA has already made its thoughts known on this subject in a discussion paper about “Product Intervention”. Chapter 6 deals with product intervention options for the new regulator and mentions price capping. Paragraph 6.40 states: “Price capping is the most radical price intervention and would involve us making difficult judgements about the appropriate price we regard as consistent with good consumer outcomes.”
“Under the directive, pre-contractual information for the consumer will now have to show the total cost of credit and how much has to be paid back. I believe that the new regulations and their changes will make a real difference. From that list it should be clear that the Government have been active and lots of new measures have just been implemented, but I want to go further. That is why, jointly with the Treasury, my Department has launched two reviews that will be fundamental to the regulation of consumer credit in future. First, the Government are reviewing the framework for financial services regulation, including the two current consumer credit regulators, the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Services Authority.”
“That will enable people to manage their financial affairs better. Clearly we can and should do more, and I particularly welcome the setting up of the all-party group on financial education for young people by my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson). In addition, this very week, the consumer credit directive came into force, which introduces new and powerful regulations for consumers that will have far-reaching consequences for the high-cost credit market. I know that not everyone in the House shares the same view of Europe and European legislation, but I am sure that we can all agree that the new requirements on lenders to undertake a creditworthiness assessment before any loan is made and the new 14-day cooling-off period for consumers, allowing them to withdraw from any credit agreement, are welcome.”
“I am pleased that we have seen real progress in that regard, and that many credit union customers who sign up for the service can now pay in and withdraw money at their local post offices. I am working with others across Government to establish where and how we can go further. I hope that we shall be able to proceed with new measures, but we must work out the details. We are doing other things, and other things are happening. We have seen the vital development of better education about credit and about finance more widely. The Consumer Financial Education Body is funded in full by a Financial Services Authority levy on the financial services industry. It will provide Britain’s first national financial advice service, which will offer a free, impartial financial education to all along with an annual financial health check.”
“Despite the cuts that we are having to make, we have maintained spending in that area, and we hope to make the money go further and work harder against those criminal loan sharks by reorganising the teams and following the recommendations of an independent study. My second example relates to the availability of more affordable credit. We are actively trying to make some of these high-cost credit markets more competitive so that people on low incomes can have more choice and credit can be affordable and accessible. I have made no secret of my support for credit unions and the building of closer links between them and the Post Office, enabling more people to take advantage of their services.”
“The previous Government were not shy or inactive in this regard, and some of their policies were good. We are continuing those policies and hope to improve on them. Let me give two examples. The first relates to illegal moneylenders—the loan sharks who will use intimidation and even violence to collect their money. They are criminals, and they need to be identified, caught, charged and imprisoned. The previous Government set up illegal moneylending teams whose job was to help to enforce the law in communities throughout the country. They are specialist teams consisting of trading standards officers and seconded police officers who are taking the fight to the loan sharks.”
“One of the huge benefits of a debate such as this is that the House has a chance to contribute actively to the Government’s ongoing work and, in particular, to our two ongoing consultations. However the House votes this afternoon—and I strongly urge all Members to support the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker)—I assure Members that we are in listening mode. We have not reached our final conclusions, not least because one consultation has not closed and we have yet to analyse all the submissions made in response to the call for evidence. Let me, however, tell the House what the Government have been and are still doing, and how we have learned from the previous Government’s attempts. Of course, they rejected proposals for caps on consumer credit not once, not twice, but three times.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) on securing a debate on this important subject, on which there is so much common ground. I believe that there is a consensus across the House that we need to protect vulnerable people, especially those on low incomes, from irresponsible and, worst of all, illegal lenders. There is, of course, some debate about how we should protect consumers from exploitation. Although today’s discussion has rightly ranged widely, the motion and many contributions have focused on one particular option for credit regulation, namely a cap on the total cost of credit. I shall deal with that specific point in some detail later, but in order to do justice to a number of the excellent speeches that we have heard, I shall begin by responding to some of the many points that have been made.”
“I am aware of a range of arguments regarding the effect of introducing daylight saving time on business and other areas of activity. There has been no recent Government assessment of the merits of those arguments. However, as the right hon. Gentleman will recall, in our recent debate on the private Member’s Bill on this issue, I made it clear that Government are willing to publish a review of the available evidence of a move to central European time. That would, of course, include evidence of the effects on business.”
“This coalition Government of two parties can make more decisions more quickly than the previous Government, of one party, did, and I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman disagrees with the Prime Minister’s statement on this issue, in which he said that there should be consensus across the nations of the United Kingdom. That is a sensible approach to take, and we will follow it.”
“I am looking forward to meeting the hon. Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris) on 20 January to discuss her Bill and how she wants to take it forward, and I am sure that that is one of the issues that she will want debated.”
“Royal Mail and the Post Office are natural partners with a strong existing commercial relationship. As the House heard yesterday, the chief executive of Royal Mail, Moya Greene, has said that it is “unthinkable” that that will not continue after the separation of Royal Mail and the Post Office.”
“We had this debate yesterday and I answered that very question. I made it clear, as did Ministers in the previous Government, that it is impossible for a Minister to say that no post office anywhere in the country will close, because 97% of them are run by private individuals, who may decide to sell up or retire. That cannot therefore be required. However, we will not repeat the major closure programmes of the previous Government.”
“We are certainly doing that, as we set out in our post office policy document last year. There is a pilot in Glasgow and south Lanarkshire in which pay-out technology is being used in co-ordination with credit unions, and guidance has been given to sub-postmasters about how they can work with their local credit unions.”
“In my constituency, when I was in opposition and the last Government were in power, a post office was temporarily closed and I worked with Post Office Ltd to get it reopened. We succeeded; the hon. Gentleman should do that.”
“I have received representations on the Government’s policy on the future of the post office network from a range of interested organisations and individuals. We are providing £1.34 billion of funding to modernise the network and to safeguard its future.”
“I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance, not just because we are putting in £1.34 billion but because we are developing new services. I hope that I will be able to make more information on that available to the House in due course. In our policy paper last year, we talked about several pilots, which will go ahead.”
“However, I will liaise with him on the matter.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this matter with me; it was the first time I had heard about it. Although it is an operational matter for Royal Mail, there are certain procedures it must adhere to. For one, it must ensure that the right letters and parcels get to the right people. Of course, in normal circumstances, a “sorry you were out” card is left for the person, if they are out, after which they go and show their identification. However, it seems common sense that in exceptional circumstances, when Royal Mail cannot deliver, an individual should be able to go to their local delivery office. I know that my hon. Friend has contacted Royal Mail to raise this issue. I have looked into it overnight, and it appears that that particular office has experienced high levels of sickness in recent weeks.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this matter. Pre-packs, which is the name of the process that he is talking about, are a way of dealing with companies that are already insolvent. In some circumstances they can work well. However, I recognise the concerns that he has raised about the process, especially when the sale is backed to connected parties, such as the phoenix-type companies that he talked about. I am currently considering the responses to a consultation that the previous Government held on improving transparency and confidence in the pre-pack approach to administration. I plan to make an announcement on that in the near future, and I would certainly be happy to meet him.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this point, of which I am aware. Royal Mail accepts that there were initial problems with establishing the new delivery system in the Dundee East delivery office and I am sure that it will learn from them. Following a review, a recovery plan was put in place, but I am afraid that the severe weather hindered it. Royal Mail has apologised for the disruption to services and taken a range of measures as a matter of urgency to ensure that households and businesses in Dundee East receive all their mail. For example, 70 extra staff and managers have been drafted in to help the recovery following a major push last weekend. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be able to report back to me that his constituents and businesses are seeing an improvement.”
“My hon. Friend will know that we have today announced the abolition of the default retirement age, which is a deregulatory measure. In the very near future we hope to announce the next stage of our employment law review, and I am sure he will welcome that.”
“I believe that officials are discussing the matter with other Departments that are involved in it. I will certainly write to the hon. Gentleman.”
“It is not appropriate for me to comment on the previous management, but I invite my hon. Friend to contact the new chief executive of Royal Mail, Moya Greene, and the new managing director of Post Office Ltd, Paula Vennells. If he seeks to meet them and to listen to them, he will find that the management in Royal Mail and in Post Office Ltd are of the highest calibre.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning Deutsche Post and its legal protections. He and hon. Members who served on the Postal Services Public Bill Committee will be aware that the protection given to post offices in rural areas of Germany is that there must be a post office every 80 sq km. Is that what he proposes for this country?”
“Philately has got me to my feet. I am looking forward to reading the Scottish Affairs Committee’s full report. I thought that I had said to the Committee that the 11,500 commitment is in the contractual agreement between the Government and Post Office Ltd. That is a strong commitment and it is backed up by the access criteria that we inherited from the previous Government, which could be delivered by a network of 7,500 post offices. Obviously, there is a debate about that, but the two together give a strong reassurance to Members and to communities around the country and meet all the concerns that the hon. Gentleman is raising.”
“It is clearly in the interests of us all that this strong relationship is maintained in the future. We are committed to securing as long an agreement with the Post Office as we are legally able to.” That confirms what Donald Brydon, the Royal Mail chairman, said in his evidence to the Committee. These are very strong pledges, and both Moya Greene and Donald Brydon make them not for sentimental reasons, but because they are business people and they know this relationship makes commercial sense.”
“Operationally, these companies are reliant on one another. Post offices carried out more than 3 billion transactions for Royal Mail in 2009. They will continue to be partners, because there will remain an overwhelming commercial imperative for the two businesses to work together. Let me expand on that a little further. In evidence to the Bill Committee, the chief executive of Royal Mail, Moya Greene, called the post office network “the best and strongest network in the country, by any yardstick” –– [ Official Report, Postal Services Public Bill Committee, 9 November 2010; c. 18, Q42.] Yesterday, she reaffirmed her commitment to that relationship, saying: “There is already a very strong and enduring commercial relationship between the Post Office and Royal Mail.”
“These are different businesses, which will benefit from focusing on the different challenges they face. It is worth keeping in mind that postal services account for only about a third of Post Office total revenue, as post offices undertake many other activities. Evidence to the Committee from Richard Hooper—the last Government commissioned him to report on Royal Mail, and this Government asked him to refresh his report—and from Consumer Focus and Postcomm all supported the separation of ownership of the two businesses. I was grateful for the support for this from my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso). Let me reassure Members, however, that the separation of Post Office Ltd and Royal Mail will not lead to the dangers for the post office network that people have talked about.”
“Members who have spoken in support of the new clause have expressed the fear, which has been debated at length in Committee and in other forums, that taking Post Office Ltd out of the Royal Mail Group of companies will put the commercial relationship between Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd at risk, and thence pose a risk to the post office network. I share my hon. Friend’s laudable interest in ensuring that a strong commercial relationship is maintained between Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd. However, the approach taken in this new clause, of legislating a contract of a certain length, is not the way to achieve our shared objective. In the evidence given to the Public Bill Committee, we heard strong backing for the separation of Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd.”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) for sparking the debate, and particularly for the way in which he introduced it, in his unique style. I thank him for his practical approach to the issue, and for his support for the mutualisation and employee share ownership provisions. I hope I shall be able to reassure him that new clause 2 is not needed, and that our policies for the Post Office will ensure that some of the more scaremongering predictions that we have heard will not come to fruition.”
“These negotiations are best left to the businesses themselves, who know far better than we in this House their customers, the markets they serve, the products and the services they require of one another.”
“That would be commercial nonsense, and it will not do it. The new clause would put the contract between Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd on a statutory basis, requiring a minimum duration to the contract of 10 years. Let me explain why I am opposed to this suggestion. I do not believe that legislation is appropriate place for the commercially sensitive terms of a relationship between two independent businesses to be settled. I am unaware of any statutory precedent for the Government requiring particular commercial terms between two independent businesses. When we debated this in Committee, I appealed to Committee members to tell me whether they could find such a precedent. None has appeared, and for good reason.”
“I will, of course, address that in detail, if the hon. Lady will let me. However, I first want to stress that it is the commercial incentive in the relationship that is so important. The Labour party forgets that commercial rationale is what makes people work together and what makes partnerships successful, not regulation. I invite Members to consider the counterfactual of why Royal Mail would end its relationship with the post office network. Many of us fought the previous Government’s post office closure programmes precisely because the public value their local post offices so highly and see them as the natural place for high-quality postal services. As I asked on Second Reading, why would Royal Mail walk away from the Post Office, leaving a vacuum which its competitors would willingly fill?”
“The experts—the businesses and their advisers—should negotiate and agree the commercial relationship between the two businesses for the long term, rather than us here in Parliament. On the key issue, Donald Brydon made it clear in his evidence to the Public Bill Committee that Post Office Ltd and Royal Mail would sign an agreement for the longest legally permissible period before a future separation. As shareholder, the Government will ensure that that commitment is met before any separation. I hope that the House will welcome this new commitment; we are making it very clear that we will ensure that Royal Mail delivers on the commitment that it has given, repeated and outlined to the Committee.”