Dr Rupa Huq
MP for Ealing Central and Acton · Labour · United Kingdom
“Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) said, after the adrenalin rush of the virtual queue, there is pressure when reaching the front to snap up what is left, if someone has had the time to get there, which leaves some fans with buyer’s remorse afterwards—“How much?”
“It allows tickets to be sold only at or below the original face-value price; it actually prohibits any increase. Every listing is checked manually to ensure that there is a real ticket behind it. It might not necessarily be a case of doing that.”
“My hon. Friend is correct. The most accessed site is YouTube, and it gets not a penny from that. I am guilty of listening to music on YouTube as well, watching old Top of the Pops episodes from the ’80s, and Runaround—that was a good show—and Swap Shop and so on. Anyway, my hon. Friend is right; we need to remunerate.”
“He even managed to negotiate free bus travel; in the Brennan review it says that transport is prohibited. I worry that we risk falling behind other advanced economies on this.”
“I am not against dynamic or surge pricing per se. It is seen as exploitative, but it could mean that pricing goes down. I once saw Elvis Costello at Hyde Park for free; the headliner was meant to be Elton John, but he cancelled, which was good for me as I am not an Elton fan.”
“As we speak, in Wembley, Bon Jovi are taking the stage. Yesterday, tickets were £80, but then there was this service charge fee of £17.06, making the whole thing £97.06. That 21.3% charge is a huge mark-up.”
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“I have been around the block—Oxbridge, red brick, ex-poly—long enough to know that this statement reeks of academic snobbery and desperation. In cultural studies, people can legitimately analyse Mickey Mouse as a subject of academic inquiry—I have ex-students who did that who are now earning more than any of us in here. When will the Government address the things that our constituents really want to be dealt with, such as crippling student debt and the massively reduced and minimal contact hours that the covid generation got?”
“Mr Speaker, you yourself said that this news has been most unwelcome for the elderly, disabled and blind. Was an impact equality assessment carried out? I am lucky that Sadiq Khan is keeping all my Transport for London stations open, but rail workers risked their lives for us all. They were not watching box sets of Bridgerton during covid. Can the Minister commit to saying there will be no redundancies?”
“T5. Now that social distancing is over, will the Secretary of State look into restarting the pilot of demand responsive buses that Ealing and one other London borough—a Conservative-run borough—were undertaking before covid pulled the plug on them, as his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), said he would do before being shuffled off?”
“Labour founded NATO, so of course we welcome the Prime Minister’s work in that. What are his thoughts on, and did the summit discuss, the possibility of establishing a special tribunal to bring those responsible for the Russian Federation’s illegal war to account for war crimes and crimes against humanity? That was part of the memorandum of understanding at the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, another security alliance that we are part of—I was there the other week. It was proposed very movingly by the Ukrainians, who are full members of that alliance. I wonder what the Prime Minister’s thoughts are on that.”
“As a point of information, before I call the last of the Back Benchers, we had a 25-minute suspension because of the two votes, so that goes on to the end of the debate. Our new finish time is 4.25 pm, so do not feel you have to squish everything in before 4 o’clock.”
“Order. The hon. Gentleman did say he was concluding. I am being told by the official that he is over the standard time, so if he could conclude we would be grateful.”
“I will start to call the Front Benchers at 5.33 pm, with five minutes for the SNP and Labour, because it is only a 60-minute debate. If we do speeches within five-and-a-half minutes, everyone will get in.”
“Food banks, playgroups and warm spaces are among the services provided by mosques, temples, synagogues and churches for all our constituents to help them cope with the cost of living crisis, but many of the buildings are creaking and falling apart. Will Ministers consider extending Gordon Brown’s policy of VAT relief on building works for listed places of worship to all such places, to recognise their role in providing social good and to alleviate the pressure on multiple systems?”
“The role of accommodating food bank Britain has fallen to churches and places of worship, which have also housed playgroups, vaccination centres and warm spaces of late. Given that they are stepping up to fill gaps in state provision—state failure—would Ministers be able to exempt their often crumbling and creaking buildings, whether or not they are listed, from VAT on building repairs, as generosity and him upstairs alone will not pay the bills?”
“T5. Clause 1 of the draft Media Bill’s redefinition of public service broadcasting deletes music, comedy and drama. It removes all requirement to have cultural output. Why, oh why?”
“The Government like to throw up that smokescreen and say, “It’s covid’s fault.” I have just written to Tim Orchard because a constituent told me that there is only one temporary scanner at Hammersmith at the moment. Is that not scandalous? Does my hon. Friend agree that, to paraphrase the Sex Pistols, who were formed on the Wormholt estate, which borders both our constituencies, this is the great NHS scandal?”
“I am aware that the Division bell will probably start ringing as soon as I stand up, but I am familiar with that quote from Tim Orchard. My hon. Friend is making a really powerful speech. I am familiar with all these hospitals, as are all my constituents. I was born at Queen Charlotte’s, my little sister was born at Hammersmith, and both my parents were under Charing Cross. I went to the Western Eye Hospital last year when I had shingles, and I have an auntie who has retired but was a consultant professor at St Mary’s. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is really sad that, in the 75th year of the NHS, we are talking about crumbling estates and all these issues? The backlogs at these hospitals existed long before covid.”
“Since 1985, girls and boys from nursery age to right up to pre-university have been educated at the King Fahad Academy in East Acton. Imagine the shock of parents, pupils and staff to be told last month that none of them are coming back in September because the Saudi Government, who fund it, are pulling the plug. Could the Secretary of State urgently intervene, at least to provide some basic certainty to a stunned community? Even the road layouts around there were conceived around the school. It could mean 500 kids left in the lurch after summer.”
“More than one in nine rape prosecutions were dropped last year because victims withdrew their support, crushed by what can be a three-year wait for their day in court and the humiliation of victim blaming. Will the Attorney General fix those problems and accept the joint inspectorate’s conclusions that the system is obviously failing rape victims when many of them find the legal process overlong and more harrowing than the original offence?”
“T6. I am sure that you, Mr Speaker, and everyone here will wish the Red Lion in Ealing well under its new management. It even does food for non-drinkers such as me. Can Ministers work with Ofgem to find a sustainable solution to energy bills, and with the Home Office to redefine chefs as a shortage occupation, to stop the Red Lion being one of the record number of pubs going to the wall?”
“Let us go for diversity and inclusion in the workplace, as well as equality of outcomes, so we can join up the different systems and institute a national eye health strategy. I am so proud of my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea and her Bill. Clearing the backlog is only part of the picture. Let us go for a systemic approach with a national strategy, so that sight can be saved.”
“Joy Hynes from Hynes Optometrists on Northfield Avenue told me: “I would like to understand why the urgency for controlling our increasing numbers of myopic patients is not being taken seriously. The Government has no strategy for prevention of this myopic epidemic. Myopia sadly often leads to blindness and that in itself is a problem with scant resource. Understanding the gravity of this situation we have for years been successfully running a specialist clinic for myopia management. This should not be the domain of the well off but should be available to every myopic child.” In conclusion, we cannot rewind the clock to February 2020 overnight, but let us hope that the jolt of covid is a wake-up call to connect all the different bits of community eye care, optometry and hospitals.”
“There are record numbers in the surgical backlog, but there are also out-patient delays with glaucoma reviews, medical retina reviews and all the follow-up stuff. Diseases such as glaucoma are silent, so it is easy to put them off forever and ever, but people’s sight is threatened; we cannot postpone these things. We need to spread the load. The whole point of ICBs is that they are meant to provide integrated care, so let us share the load, with proper guidance. In an ideal world, the work would be universal, standardised and consistent. There would be data sharing and all the systems would be joined up at the touch of a button. We could deliver eye care in a modern way, working together and contributing to the system.”
“Dr Mensah says that the direction of travel towards the private sector, instead of “resourcing and supporting the NHS is undermining our comprehensive free service and will exacerbate inequality.” She asks for additional funding to support independent recovery as, right now, private providers cherry-pick the low-risk cataract work and people are in danger of going blind if they are not seen in time. These are very uncomfortable procedures on the delicate eyeball, which is susceptible to discomfort and infection. We need to save sight, as well as the low-risk stuff. As a business case, the status quo is not good value for the taxpayer; we need to do both. The College of Optometrists argues for more mixed-mode referrals.”
“As well as the training issue, there is an issue with the sustainability of the NHS. Tackling the backlogs is a priority, but so is sustainability and training in our health service. Dr Evelyn Mensah, an inspirational woman at Central Middlesex Hospital, argues that the status quo is leading to the destabilisation of hospital services. The inequity that has flowed means that the foundational principle of the NHS at its launch in 1948—the whole point that it is free at the point of need—has gone wrong. In other words, if patients have the easy stuff, they will be dealt with, but if they have the sight-threatening, dangerous stuff, they languish.”
“The Royal College of Ophthalmologists found significant staff shortages in NHS ophthalmology capacity. That is set to worsen in coming years unless immediate action is taken. Seventy-six per cent.—over two thirds of NHS eye units in the UK—do not even have the consultants to meet current demand and 80% have become more reliant on non-medical or allied professionals in the past 12 months. The capacity is missing. The equation has gone all wrong. Twenty-five per cent. of consultants plan to leave the ophthalmology workforce in the next five years. That includes those planning to retire, but we also have a mismatch, with doctors being trained in hospitals where the easy cataract stuff is gone. They are meant to get their teeth into that first and then do the complex stuff; it has all gone the wrong way.”
“In March, the Health Service Journal reported on a survey carried out by the Royal College of Ophthalmologists, which found that independent providers—my hon. Friend referred to this too—are having a negative effect on patient care. I mentioned this on Monday, so I hope Members will forgive me if they have a sense of déjà vu. Patient choice sounds good and we have backlogs that need clearing, but the independent sector creams off all the stuff aimed at cutting the cataract waiting list, which is low-risk, routine work—and I have to say that those patients are usually from majority white populations—when it could do out-patient appointments or follow-ups too. The NHS is left with serious and costly cases of high complexity, in which patients—typically BAME ones, I have to say—are at risk of going blind.”
“Friend the Member for Battersea was there as well—playing the character Johnny Connor, who is a sufferer. That has done something to put the condition on the map, but I appeal to the Minister to recognise Charles Bonnet syndrome as part of a comprehensive eye strategy. Proper research needs to be funded. The trustees of the Esme’s Umbrella charity, as it has now been constituted, are highly respected people from Great Ormond Street, Moorfields and the Francis Crick Institute. They are all top consultants, but as the condition is not a recognised thing, they have to do the research on the side. That is not satisfactory. We need to persuade people, take them with us and fund the proper research.”
“Judith has managed to persuade the World Health Organisation to recognise it as a condition in the ICD-11—the eleventh edition of the “International Classification of Diseases”—but there is no training for it at medical school and it is seen as a side effect of sight loss. It is estimated that the number of people who suffer from the condition is in six figures—some estimates say there could be a million sufferers in this country—yet people do not even know what to google because it is so unheard of. There are no pathways, no magic pill that can make it disappear and most people have never heard of it. More research is needed to cure the condition and to help people cope with it. There is a job to be done. “Coronation Street” has played a big role, with the actor Richard Hawley, who was at our last reception in the autumn—I think my hon.”
“For seven years, she has been a one-man band with her charity Esme’s Umbrella, looking at the unusual—actually, it is more prevalent than we think—Charles Bonnet syndrome. The disease affects people who are losing their sight, and they see vivid hallucinations of often quite specific images—they can be swirly patterns and shapes, and they can also be gargoyles, world war one soldiers or boys in sailor suits. When that was described to me, I had never heard anything like it. We have had two receptions just across from this Chamber, in the Jubilee Room, for Esme’s Umbrella, which is now becoming constituted as a proper charity. It was Judith’s mother, Esme, who suffered from Charles Bonnet syndrome.”
“They were very good, but I am sure we could join all these things up better, because there seems to be a disconnect for things such as referrals. That is why I support and am a signatory to my hon. Friend’s private Member’s Bill, the National Eye Health Strategy Bill. Having a national eye strategy is crucial to reversing a situation that has seen eye care become a Cinderella service. It was a step forward when the first ever national clinical director for eye care, Louisa Wickham, was appointed last year, but unlike with other big issues—for example, I talked on Monday about mental health, dementia and cardiovascular issues—there is no national plan for eye care. It is hit and miss, as my hon. Friend says, and the lockdowns have exacerbated all the waiting lists. I want to flag the work of my constituent, Judith Potts.”
“The level of diabetes is very high in our borough, at 8.4%, and it is even higher next door in Harrow, at 9.5%—nearly one in 10 people. Diabetic eye disease is a consequence of that, and it is sight-threatening, as my hon. Friend said. The odd thing is that primary level optometry is private practice. Specsavers is the biggest provider in the country—it sent us all a briefing for the debate—and there is Boots. In Ealing, there are also great local independents such as Eyes on the Common and Hynes Optometrists. But there seems to be a mismatch with the eye hospitals. I was lucky enough to go to Central Middlesex Hospital recently and be shown around its eye department. I also went to the A&E at Western Eye Hospital last year when I had shingles, which was interesting to see. It was a very long wait of half a day on the weekend.”
“There are 600,000 people with age-related macular degeneration. Every six minutes someone is told they are going blind, and every day 250 people start to lose their sight in the UK. Some of these problems are intrinsic to our health service, such as the lack of joined-up-ness that she talked about between primary and secondary care, the fact that services are a postcode lottery and the pre-existing backlogs that were worsened by covid. With 11 million out-patient appointments a year, ophthalmology is the biggest out-patient speciality in the NHS, yet it is forgotten and is often a Cinderella service. Locally, diabetic eye disease, glaucoma and age-related macular degeneration are all big issues. In Ealing, type 2 diabetes is 3.5 times more prevalent among black, Asian and minority ethnic populations than the wider population.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) on a stunning speech and securing a debate on such an important subject. Visual impairment is, in many ways, illustrative of so many of the problems that the wider NHS faces, but it is often underacknowledged and goes unnoticed. The Minister responded to my Adjournment debate on Monday, when I went through a lot of documents from our local ICB and council on the NHS. I was scouring them for mention of eye disease, but it did not seem to be anywhere in them—it tends to fall off the radar. My hon. Friend gave some powerful statistics. There are 2 million people living in this country with sight loss today, and it is expected to be 2.7 million people by 2030 and 4 million by 2050.”
“The Minister says he is open to the idea of more research. Charles Bonnet syndrome is recognised by the NHS, but it is seen as a side-effect of sight loss. Will he commit to some proper research on that? Just to correct the record, I agree that it should be all hands on deck to clear the backlogs. I was not saying that it is either/or; it is about joining forces on cataracts.”
“There are three Back Benchers down to speak. I will take the three winding-up speeches from 10.28 am—we do not get any extra time because of the late start—so speeches should be limited to about eight and a half or nine minutes. I call Justin Tomlinson.”
“Order. I remind the former Minister that he has spoken for 10 and a half minutes, and I did want speeches to be kept within nine minutes. If he wishes to give us a concluding sentence, I will allow it, but we do have other Back Benchers.”
“I will call Daisy Cooper to move the motion and then the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as this is a 30-minute debate.”
“In the meantime, if anyone has any clue about where the £350 million per week that was promised on the side of the Brexit bus is, please inform our local NHS folk. I took a wide range of soundings to come up with this content, but no one says that they have seen that money. I look forward to the Minister’s response—I know that he is a good man. I do not think it beyond the wit of man to do this. We can do it.”
“I did not get on to any of that because the debate could have gone on and on, but I will say that acting on health inequalities improves lives and livelihoods, cuts costs to the NHS, to the benefit of wider society, prosperity and the economy, and it would save the Exchequer billions in lost productivity through long-term sickness. We should be bold. We should act and think beyond eye-catching short-term targets aligned to electoral cycles —me in particular, as I have seen so many snap elections in my lifetime; it does not work to think in terms of normal electoral cycles any more. Let us think more long term and be honest with people, not treat them like idiots. Let us take a multi-pronged approach to levelling up—the Government’s watchword.”
“As a west London MP in a borough neighbouring Kensington and Chelsea, I think that, after that enormous and avoidable loss of life, we should never scrimp on fire safety. Anyway, I said that I was going to conclude. I did not even get to the removal of maternity functions of Ealing Hospital in Southall, or the fact that pre-term deaths in pregnancy are experienced four times as much by black mums as by the population at large, and that poorer communities living by main roads breathe more polluted air—plus, in north-west London we have Heathrow airport, which is ever hungry to expand despite the climate crisis.”
“Well-designed quality and affordable housing directly impacts on physical and mental health, as does access to green spaces and play spaces. We have longer than we thought because it is not yet 10 o’clock. I do not know if anyone else saw, but there was half a page in a Murdoch newspaper today attacking little old me in connection with a proposed housing scheme in Ealing that is not going ahead now. It is quite a bizarre article—a whole half-page rant about me—and I did not know that it was coming. Everyone here knows that MPs do not decide housing applications or policy, but in that particular developer-led scheme, the private developer pulled out because it would not pay for the post-Grenfell fire safety measures that are now law—it did not want to foot the bill for that.”
“Although the Government have attributed unprecedented food and fuel prices to Putin, in reality the perma-crisis that we inhabit flows from political choices—more than a decade of austerity and the chronic underfunding of public services starved of cash by Cameron and Osborne—but we are beyond that now. To repeat myself, strategising should not equal stigmatising people and implying that they are the problem. When we drill down, it is difficult to find issues that do not contribute to health outcomes. I do an advice surgery every week, and people come and show me pictures of mould and damp. At the end of last year, I think mould was, for the first time, mentioned on a death certificate, and air quality has been identified on a death certificate as well.”
“Professor Michael Marmot recently stated in the i newspaper that a proper start in life is so fundamental that the powdered formula should be free on prescription for those forced to shoplift it. It is an idea; I do not think it has been taken up by any political party, but it is a thinking-outside-the-box solution. Another issue we could address, at the other end of the life cycle, is loneliness, which stereotypically, but not exclusively, affects the elderly, and is said to be as bad for health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Let us think of ways around it. Apparently, loneliness is even worse and more isolating for BAME communities, despite the stereotype about them living in extended families. The north-west London data shows that it is really bad there, but it is bad everywhere.”
“In short, I would say, “Be unafraid—be very unafraid—of intervention.” Health inequalities arise from overlapping factors, from commercial to cultural, but also from politics and policy. Covid-19 illustrated how disadvantaged communities experienced proportionally higher morbidity and mortality, but before coronavirus hit, who would ever have thought that the Government would foot the nation’s wage bill while we were all locked up for months on end, or preside over the biggest ever mass vaccination programme? We can do things when we put our mind to it, and the pandemic was meant to be a reset moment, was it not? In this country, we are mostly all—to paraphrase Bruce Springsteen—born in the NHS, but divergence starts at birth. It is a scary sign of rampant inflation that baby milk is now theft-alarmed in supermarkets.”
“A mixed-ability comprehensive school that I was at the other day, which not long ago was in the “requires improvement” category, noticed such a glut of obesity among pupils post lockdown that it now provides a free breakfast for all, a free Chromebook for all and voluntary basketball at 7.30 am. The take-up on all three has been enormous. It is expensive, the head said, but it is worth it: the school is out of special measures and even has record successful Oxbridge acceptances. Sadiq Khan’s free school meals for all primary pupils from next year is another visionary and bold scheme. It sounds a bit Oliver Twist, but I say, “More please, Minister!”, so that we can do it nationally.”
“We are the most obese nation in western Europe, and Sir Simon Stevens once said that obesity threatens to bankrupt the NHS, yet the official rhetoric presupposes that that is a choice. If someone is time and cash-poor, feeding multiple mouths and working multiple jobs, the ultra-processed, high fat, sugar and salt, unhealthy choice tends to be the most convenient and the cheapest. We could look at incentivising buying organic and fresh food, so that the healthy choice becomes the easy choice, and we could do so by taxing and pricing, as we have seen with the sugar tax and, historically, the decline in smoking due to the tax regime. Lastly, we could recognise the joined-up nature of policy intervention.”
“If only the white well come forward, that gives an incomplete picture, and it jeopardises the chances of the results being applicable and the treatments effective in all the target populations. There is work that could be done there. We have seen local services withdrawn, including maternity, paediatrics, stroke and mental health beds gone from Ealing. I am familiar with the bureaucrat’s argument that people do not need a facility at the end of their street if there is a much bigger and better one slightly further away, but even if we accept that, let us remember that when facilities get “consolidated”—that is the language—it is no good if there is no public transport to get there, and conduct mandatory mapping. My penultimate message is to stop blaming individuals, as Government messaging sometimes tends to sound as though it is doing.”
“One partner there said: “Frankly, there is no estates strategy, we’re just being asked to ‘suck it up’ at full capacity until reaching breaking point… In the meantime, our landlord could serve us notice at any time, putting nearly 10k patients at risk.” Point six is to look at the profile of disease and trials and recognise that the woman in the white coat can know better than the man in the grey suit. Dr Christiana Dinah, NHS consultant ophthalmologist of those aforementioned vision-threatening conditions in Ealing, Brent and Harrow, conducts award-winning research, but she has a problem in that the BAME population are under-represented in the clinical trials.”
“The fifth lesson is to listen to the person at the frontline, not just the man from the Ministry. London has a GP crisis, which needs addressing. That should be done by consulting the GPs rather than by imposing solutions in the face of their rising workload and shrunken workforce. One local practice in Ealing had architect costings and planning permission to renovate their premises to bring it up to scratch to accommodate the rise in their patient numbers—from 3,000 to 9000 in a decade. However, under current regulation, although the practice is at capacity, it is not allowed to refuse anyone and NHS Estates says it cannot pay the rent.”
“They are opting to do so because they can, leaving the NHS with unaffordably big bills, plus all the complex procedures—the patients are commonly BAME people—for things such as glaucoma and diabetic eye disease. So the NHS is left with all the difficult stuff. It also means that junior doctors training in hospital are not able to start on the easy stuff. The profile of their training is getting skewed, which needs to be addressed. It is an unintended consequence. We should be under no illusions that backlogs were present before covid. The fourth lesson is to go out to communities and housing estates. Both Ealing and Camden have an HIV bus and a diabetes bus that go into the estates. That is better than expecting those hard-to-reach populations to come to the hospitals.”
“Some boroughs, for example, have stopped smoking cessation services. Although smoking in the population has declined, it is still the biggest avoidable risky lifestyle factor everywhere. The third lesson is to stop reaching for facile “solutionism” and the target culture, which can have perverse outcomes: for example, if one vows to reduce waiting lists and then there is no treatment available at the other end. There is the unintended consequence of patient choice at the eye department at Central Middlesex Hospital. I visited there and was told that private providers cream off some of the easy cataract work—the typical patients are majority-white elderly patients.”
“His answer was, “I never needed to supplement my NHS income with private work in my day, but I understand that a lot of the younger generation do”. Again, that shows how this question can be interpreted differently by different people. It should not have to be that NHS employees have to bump up their wages through other means. Secondly, councils should be sufficiently resourced. Ealing has developed a great healthy lives strategy, and even a racial equality commission following what happened to George Floyd, thanks to Councillors Josh Blacker and Aysha Raza. However, £6 out of every £10 that the borough had in 2010 has gone in local government cuts. It is facing a rising population and is expected to do more and more with less and less, because public health has been added to its brief. That means that corners are cut.”
“That includes those in health and social care who we somehow expect to be superhuman. We have seen junior doctors, paramedics and, for the first time ever, nurses out on strike, when, not that long ago, all of them were hailed as heroes. It was a common sight to see those rainbow drawings with, “Thank you NHS”, pasted up around our streets. We have clapped for carers, but the poorly paid adult care sector, which covers private companies through to council provision, is non-unionised and too disorganised, with too many zero-hour contracts for its workers to be able even to withdraw their labour. I emailed the title of this debate, “Health Inequalities: North-west London”, to a few people, including a very respected retired consultant at Ealing Hospital.”
“The black British community represent over twice the number of registered mental health patients: 17%, compared with the wider population, at 8%. On cancer, which saw off my late father, who is looking down from somewhere, the white community make up 61% of cancer patients, but 42% of the whole population and prevalence is strongly linked to age. Poorer finances lead to stress, which, in turn, can lead to the take-up of unhealthy behaviours, such as smoking, and a drop in the take-up of healthy leisure activities. It is a vicious cycle, with happiness and loneliness also in the mix. So what can be done? I have a series of lessons for the Minister. They are things that are fixable, and would be easy wins for the Government and for the country. First, if we pay people fairly, we will have a contented workforce.”