Sir Keir Starmer
MP for Holborn and St Pancras · Labour · United Kingdom
“That meeting with President Zelensky happened the day after he was evicted from the Oval Office. He left alone. He got on a plane. We got him to come to London, and I asked him to come to Downing Street straightaway. I walked out to meet him. I gave him a hug, and then I showed him what was in the street.”
“You have been instrumental in defending the safety of every Member of this House, Mr Speaker. I believe we must do more to defend our democracy, and have tasked officials across Government with identifying the best mechanisms for taking this work forward so that it can move as quickly as possible.”
“Well, Reform intends to spend the summer arguing with a bin. My advice to everyone is: put your vote in the Bin! [ Laughter. ] I am delighted that today we are joined in the Gallery by some of the people I have met across the country in opposition and in power.”
“She knows that this is robust, and it has to be robust—that is the way politics is done—but the kindnesses that sit behind it privately are often just as powerful, if not more powerful, and I thank her for that. I also stood at the Opposition Dispatch Box, for four years as Leader of the Opposition.”
“I join the right hon. Lady in her tribute to Ann Widdecombe. I know that the hurt is keenly felt across all her friends and family, but it is particularly keenly felt by political colleagues in the Conservative party—her party for many years—and in Reform as well.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her question, her support and her friendship for me, Vic and the kids. Whatever the challenge, she has always been there for us, particularly Vic and the kids, and I really thank her for that. This will be my last answer from this Dispatch Box.”
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“As the Government lead non-executive director, he provided independent advice and challenge across Government. His work strengthened the performance of the public institutions that all our constituents rely on. Indeed, his commitment to public sector effectiveness is such that since leaving that role he has led university programmes at home and abroad, challenging others to think about how leaders can deliver for the people they serve. Alongside his many years of service in public roles, Michael has also supported the work of various charities, including the King’s Foundation and the Fairtrade Foundation. Remarkably, he has still found time to pen four books. Throughout his career, he has demonstrated a strong commitment to the values this office requires.”
“I also thank the Joint Committee on Human Rights and the Education Committee for all they have done to shine a light on this injustice. Most of all, I want to thank those who have campaigned for so long to have the truth recognised, including those who are no longer with us to hear the apology they fought for. It should never have happened, and they should not have had to fight so hard for this day to come. Today, finally, I say on behalf of the state and the nation as a whole: we see you, we hear you, and we are truly sorry. I commend this statement to the House.”
“Finally, to further recognise those affected and ensure we learn the lessons of the past, we will commission a testimonials project to capture the stories of those with experience of historical forced adoption practices. Through all of this and more, we will continue to meet regularly with those with lived experience. We will be guided by them to get this support right and learn from our past to ensure that nothing like this can ever happen again in this country. Finally, this national apology reflects and builds on the approaches taken by Scotland and Wales, whose devolved Governments have also issued apologies for these practices, which we fully endorse. I welcome the process under way in Northern Ireland to establish a statutory public inquiry into mother and baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and workhouses.”
“We will expand access to funded intermediary services, with a particular focus on pre-1976 cases, where access to support is currently most limited. We will establish national virtual peer-led support groups for mothers and adopted adults, to improve access to ongoing, trauma-informed support across the country. We will work with NHS England to ensure those affected are taken seriously when they seek help. That includes new support for clinicians to better understand the impact of forced adoption and respond appropriately in their care. NHS England will also explore how those who wish to do so can have their experience of forced adoption appropriately recorded in their health record.”
“This must also be the start of real change: working with those affected and their families to improve access to records, and to provide the care and support that people need. So today I can tell the House that we will fund the development of a national online resource, creating a single access point to locate records wherever they might be held across the country. We will consult on requiring existing records to be retained for 100 years, so they remain available across the lifetime of those affected. Today, the Education Secretary is writing to local authorities, regional adoption agencies and voluntary adoption agencies, setting out the expectation that requests for records should be responded to swiftly and with compassion and consistency.”
“The state did not do enough to protect mothers, children and families from harm. And for that systemic failing, I am truly sorry. Many of those affected have suffered a further injustice. They have had to fight for the basic human right to know their own story. As Sally Ells puts it: “We are treated as if the information about our own lives, does not belong to us”. Debbie Iromlou was told her birth mother’s life would be in danger if she tried to search for her. Barriers were put in place at every twist and turn. Records have in some cases been lost, altered, or not made fully accessible to those seeking answers, and the whole process is painfully slow—traumatic and dehumanising all over again. We say sorry and we mean it, but sorry is not enough.”
“And to those from ethnic minority backgrounds who experienced racism or were treated differently within those systems, and who as a group were less likely to be adopted or to grow up in stable family homes. I am struck by the words of Debbie Iromlou, who I met this morning. She says she was “raised with racist views towards her own biological family.” Mr Speaker, how do you even begin to comprehend that? To each and every one of those affected, we say a deep and heartfelt sorry. Let me be clear and unequivocal: those harms were compounded by the actions and failures of the state. Governments funded, enabled and relied on systems that were not consistently or effectively overseen. The state did not prevent harm from continuing. The state bears responsibility for the systems it funded and legitimised, which enabled those practices to occur.”
“To those who have experienced lifelong uncertainty, loss or questions about identity and belonging, or whose mental and physical health, relationships and sense of self across their lives has been affected. To the fathers who were denied a voice, excluded from decisions, or separated from their children. To the siblings, grandparents, partners, extended families, and future generations who have lived with the consequences of these practices. To those who experienced harm from these practices, even while being brought up in loving homes, by their adoptive parents. To those who were adopted across borders or cultures, who lost connections to their heritage, and racial and personal identity.”
“To those who were not given the information they needed to provide informed consent, who faced pressure or coercion and who experienced practices that were unethical. To the sons and daughters, the children who are now adults, who through pressure and coercion within these systems were taken from their families and denied their identity, their history and sometimes their safety. To those who grew up believing they were unwanted, some of whom were even told directly that they were second class. To those who have carried a burden of loss, confusion and stigma, or who experienced neglect and abuse without the protection or oversight that should have been their right.”
“I say this to Ann, to everyone with us in the Gallery, and to all those impacted and affected, wherever they are in the country—there are many thousands of them, including some who still, to this day, have not been able to speak about what happened to them. I hope this statement and apology perhaps gives some of them the confidence to speak about what happened to them, because it will help in a small way. The shame is not yours. The shame was never yours. The shame is ours. I say that on behalf of the whole country and I say it to every single person impacted. We are deeply and profoundly sorry. To the mothers who were told they were unfit, who were prevented from caring for the children they desperately wanted to help and to keep and who have carried this loss for decades.”
“Young mothers were told that they were immoral and that their babies were better off without them. As they told me this morning, that lasts a lifetime and has a huge impact. Ann Lloyd Keen, who is in the Gallery and is of course formerly of this House, described to the Education Committee how she was stitched without anaesthetic, and was told: “You will remember the pain, because you’ve been a bad girl.” Many of those harmed in this way feel a gut-wrenching sense of shame. Ann and others have said that that has stayed with them. She says that she still feels it today. I know that this apology will not be able to lift it completely—it will help a little, I hope, but it will not lift it completely.”
“They were all institutions that operated with power over people’s lives, yet they did so without compassion, without consent and without dignity or proper safeguards. These practices were particularly prevalent between 1949 and 1976, but also extended beyond those years. In some cases, women, including those placed in mother and baby homes and other institutional settings, were cut off from their families, relationships, education and employment, and subjected to harsh and isolating conditions. Some experienced treatment that amounted to exploitation and abuse. Many were made to feel ashamed—that came through very, very powerfully in the discussions I had this morning —silenced, and unworthy of care or dignity. Children grew up believing that they were unwanted.”
“As they said to me this morning, this is something which is so intensely private having to be public. The courage and resilience they have shown, and others alongside them, is absolutely incredible, and I want to mark that. What happened to them, and to tens of thousands of mothers, children and families, should never have happened. It is a stain on our history. Mothers—many young, vulnerable and without support—were coerced, bullied or misled into feeling they had no choice but to have their children taken from them. What a thing to do. These were not isolated or accidental acts. They were practices embedded within systems across local authorities, across voluntary and faith-based institutions, and in health and social care services, including parts of what is now the NHS.”
“This morning in Downing Street, I met some of the mothers and adult adoptees harmed by historical adoption practices in England. They are here with us in the Gallery today, and I had the chance to talk with them privately. They are the most remarkable women, and I know the whole House will want to join me in paying tribute to the extraordinary courage with which they have shared their harrowing testimonies and fought for the truth time and again. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I have to confess that, as I said to those mothers this morning, I found it hard to read the testimonies and to hear their stories—I found it particularly hard as a dad—but how much harder it must have been for them to go through that, to set out their testimonies and to tell their stories over and over again.”
“We are being guided by those affected as to the support that they think is most important to them, and we will continue to be guided in that way. He also asked about responsibility, which will be with the Department for Education. I am happy to provide him with further information as these things develop.”
“I thank the hon. Member for the tone of his response and for welcoming what the Government have set out today. I also thank him for the care and attention that he has shown personally to this issue and linked issues. I genuinely believe it is so important that we speak with one voice in the House today, so that those affected know that this is an apology from all of us in equal measure and that the House is united on this issue. I thank him for speaking in that way, because the issue impacts not us in the Chamber but all those who have been affected. To know that the whole House supports the apology that has been given today, and how it has been given, is really important. On the hon. Member’s questions, we are looking at schemes.”
“I have no doubt that the Education Committee will want to monitor that itself and be updated on it regularly. My hon. Friend’s point about making sure it is widely known that support is available is so important. Many thousands of people will need the support, and they must know that it is available. As I said in my statement, I am acutely conscious that there are some who to this day have still not been able to speak about this. I hope that by making it widely known that support is available, some may feel able to come forward and get the support that they need.”
“As I heard this morning from those in the Gallery, it is about not just the initial act and all the pain and anguish, but the everyday reminders, like when people ask, “Do you have children?” What a difficult and awful question to answer over and over again, and they have all had to come to terms with how they answer that question. It is a question that we might all hear or pose on a daily or weekly basis—it is such a simple, everyday thing, but it is so painful. That really struck me this morning, and there will be thousands of things like that across all the testimonies and stories. To my hon. Friend’s question about monitoring, that will be done by the Department for Education, and we will, of course, involve survivors as we go forward.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for all the work that she has done and led through the Education Committee, and I also thank all the members of that Committee. I heard about the testimony to the Committee and how difficult and harrowing it was for all concerned. She is absolutely right to thank those who gave their testimony and those who supported its work. My hon. Friend used the word “dehumanised”. That is the right word, although it hardly feels strong enough to me. To break the bond between a mother and a child is nothing less than dehumanising. It goes to an intense feeling that we all have as human beings. To break that bond is indescribably painful—even to describe, let alone to have gone through—so “dehumanising” is the right word.”
“We are looking at how they need to be tailored, trauma-informed and developed. We will of course continue the dialogue with all those affected, and with the Education Committee and the House.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for welcoming this apology, and I repeat just how important it is that we are united across this House, speaking with one voice. I thank her for saying that. The hon. Lady mentioned the long wait for an apology and for justice. It has been a double injustice. There is not just what happened, but then the fight, as is often the case, for acknowledgment of what went wrong. We got this wrong as a state. So often we circle the wagons and protect the decision makers and wrongdoers instead of asking ourselves the question, “Where is the injustice here, and how do we put it right?” That has to change, because it has happened in this case and others. I thank the hon. Lady for drawing attention to that. We are looking at mental health pathways, which are vital.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for sharing her personal experience—it is obvious how hard that is. To say out loud, in a Chamber like this, things that are intensely personal and private, full of pain and grief, is really difficult. It is hard for some of us to comprehend just how difficult that must be, so I salute her courage and resilience, and all those who have spoken out. To have to speak out about something that is so intensely difficult over and over again is incredibly, incredibly demanding, but I hope there can be comfort not only in that you have been seen and heard because of it but in the fact that others will have the courage too to speak out about what happened to them. I thank her in that regard as well. We must keep up the support and the dialogue, and we will. I thank my hon. Friend again for her remarks.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his contribution, his welcoming of the report and his comments about love. I have to confess that I do not entirely agree with what he said about judging people by the standards of the day. I understand the point that he makes, but I think that something as visceral as this is wrong according to any standards—then and now. I am not disrespecting the point that he makes, but I just personally feel quite strongly that to dehumanise someone in this way is hard to explain—whenever it happened, whatever the standards in place. Otherwise, I agree with everything he said.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for what she has done on this and on so many other issues. She is absolutely right that this cannot simply be a backward-looking exercise; we have to carry the principles that sit behind this apology into all the other instances when there is disrespect and a lack of regard for people’s dignity. If we commit to that, it will make the apology more meaningful, I am sure.”
“I know that they have tried their level best to make sure that they have reflected seeing and hearing those who have been affected. It does make a difference, because an apology can be a formal form of words or it can be something that is heartfelt and meaningful. I hope beyond hope that today is received as something heartfelt and meaningful, and I extend thanks to the team in Government who have done so much work to try to ensure that that is the way that today is received.”
“First, I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I will stay involved in this issue; it is a deep injustice. Secondly, I thank him for his work in Northern Ireland, because it was a really important moment. He is absolutely right about the way others address these issues—he gave the example of the churches. If you say that you see someone and you hear someone, you have to see them and you have to hear them. You cannot give an apology that is just lawyer’s script. You have to listen, you have to take it in, you have to try and understand—though you cannot completely because you have not been through what they have been through. In that regard, I would like, if I may, to thank the Secretary of State and her team for the way that they have gone about preparing this.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for all her work in this area and for her powerful intervention and question. She is absolutely right about not just the initial injustice, but all the hoops, burdens and barriers that were then put in place; at almost every twist and turn, of every road, fresh barriers were put in place. That is why this absolutely must be the beginning of survivor-led support, and we mark it in that way.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her work on the Committee and agree with her that the apology is long overdue; it should have been given a long time ago, in my view. The point that she makes about information is important, and the online resource will be put in place as quickly as possible. It is not a small matter, because this is information that belongs to those who are affected. It is not information that is provided to them out of some service from the state; it is their information. The fact that barriers have been put in the way of those seeking their own information about their own lives and their own identity is an appalling additional injustice, of which there are very many in these cases.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her work on the APPG and for her campaigning, and acknowledge what she has done. As for the number, 185,000 is a shocking figure, but I worry that it may be higher than that. I worry that there are cases that we still do not know about—those where the records are not available and where, as I say, some people feel that they still cannot talk. That rapid access to therapeutic support is hugely important and she is right to highlight it.”
“I can give that undertaking, and I thank the hon. Member for raising that important aspect. With each question, with each issue, we can begin to understand the very many ways in which the injustice—across a number of different fields and a number of different strands—played its part. For those who lost their babies altogether, that work on graves and on records is really important.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for the way in which she draws attention to the suffering. We absolutely have to make sure that compassion is there in everything the state does. We can change rules and processes, but it is a culture; it is about recognising that human dignity matters whoever you are and wherever you are. If that was inserted into everything that the Government and the state did, what a difference it would make! Human dignity is one of the most important things to me and my politics, and that is what has been lacking here. We will do everything we can to turn that around.”
“We are setting up a national advice line. It is important that it is national, available and comes in different forms. Digital will work for most people, but not necessarily everyone. We need to make sure that everybody affected and everybody who has not come forward yet finds a way to get that support in the appropriate way. We will take those steps.”
“She is absolutely right that the voices of women have not been heard in the way that they should have been, and that this is not an isolated incident; it is a pattern of behaviour. We have to do better than this.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for drawing attention to the anguish that the mothers must have felt, and the constant sense of shame that was inflicted, including on the adult adoptees; they described that to me this morning. The message of being unwanted is really hard. As they said to me this morning, it is not something you can just offload; it is not something that changes. Again, as we discussed this morning, even where parents and children have been reunited, that has not been easy. It is not walking off into the sunset, as we would all like to believe; it is the extremely difficult next chapter of a journey. I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point, and for reminding us of the work of Sir David Amess on this.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for sharing that personal story; we can see just how difficult that must have been, and she has shown huge courage in saying that in the Chamber today. The way she described her mother taking the secret to her grave is very powerful. It is an example of the way in which some people simply feel that they cannot talk about this, and did not talk about this. Those who have passed will never now be able to talk about this. She shows great courage in speaking on her mother’s behalf as well. I am glad that there has been that reuniting, but it should not be the painful journey that she has just described. We have to do better than that, and we will.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and for the work that she did as children and families Minister; she did a lot on this, and I pay tribute to her for it. She is right about the support that is needed, particularly specialist therapy; I am in no doubt about that. It is important that we are raising funding for the adoption and special guardianship support fund to £55 million. Across this House, we need to keep talking to those affected to make sure that we get this right.”
“Yes, we can and should say that, and I thank the right hon. Member for reminding us that this is not all about the past. If we mean what we say, we have to tackle the present as well. I was struck not just by the dogmatic adherence to views at the time, but the complete lack of empathy, the complete lack of feeling. That is something else. That goes beyond dogma; that is just how human beings treat each other. I have had examples described to me of individual human beings dehumanising other individual human beings, when they did not have to. They chose to act in that way, adding even more grief and pain to what was an awful injustice in any event. As for the uploading of stories, there will be the facility for testimonials to be there—obviously, only if people want to share them. We are looking at how that could be done.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for raising this. We are working with all those affected, and with the families. precisely on the issue of ensuring that all the relevant information is put together. It is a difficult job, because it is held in different places in different ways. I cannot stand here and pretend that all the information is available, and that we simply have to get it in one place. It will take a lot of work to get it all there, and some of it may not be retrievable, but we will do everything we can to ensure that it is as complete as possible, as quickly as possible.”
“We have to tackle misogyny in all its forms, wherever it rears its head. It is here with us today, and as she rightly says, we have even heard of it this week in the Chamber, in various debates in which issues have been raised; these issues are constantly raised. It is important that we address this by looking at it historically, up to today, and then forward, in and across the board. I thank the hon. Member for raising it.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her campaigning on this issue. In both respects, we have to find a way of providing memory to those who lost their lives. To those mothers who passed away before today, this took too long. As a result of that, they are not hearing this apology. We need to be clear: that is an additional injustice.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising the case of Jenny, Scott and Alfie. I assure him that if he provides the full details, I will ensure not only that the relevant meeting takes place, but that we look at the details of that particular case.”
“This is personal information—private information—about people and their background and their identity; they are entitled to it. Nobody should be putting barriers in the way of that, but I know that has been done.”
“The unity across the House and the courage of a number of Members in speaking out has been incredibly powerful. I think this aspect of how this House works is not well known enough, and we all have a duty to show this House when it is behaving well, not just when it is behaving not so well. The business of being denied access to records goes really deep. Individuals are trying to access records about their lives and their identities, and yet barriers have been put in the way of them accessing their own material. That has to stop. We need to do everything we can to make sure that those medical histories are available, and the hon. Member is absolutely right: we need to move at speed, because we are talking about events, in some cases, of many years ago. We need to move at speed, and we need to remove the barriers.”
“It is never too late to issue an apology for wrongdoing—I wholeheartedly agree with that, and I pay tribute to all those who have campaigned, including the GMB and other trade unions. My hon. Friend is absolutely right about what went wrong. The question that should have been asked was, “What support can we give you to be able to bring up your baby?” not the questions that were asked. If that question had been asked, we would not be standing here today in the way that we are.”
“I thank the hon. Member for reminding us how important it was in Scotland as well. We have to work with the devolved nations on this. It is important that we do so constructively, positively and at speed, because everybody affected needs to know that we are all pulling together and that, where information and support is needed, it will be provided as quickly as possible.”
“The 2010 apology was a solemn moment, and work continues to honour the legacy of that apology, just as work will continue to honour and follow through on the apology that has been issued today.”
“I do not want to go against the spirit of the hon. Member’s question, but I do have to say this. Too many of those who were adopted were told that they should be grateful for what happened to them, and too many of the mothers were told that they should be grateful that their children would get care they could not provide. That, in itself, was deeply hurtful—deeply, deeply hurtful. I am not suggesting that others did not try to do their level best, but this was not a situation in which anybody affected should feel or be told that they should be grateful for what happened. I am not disrespecting the hon. Member’s question; it is just that, having had the discussions I had this morning, I know that this is felt very, very deeply, so I must therefore say that from this Dispatch Box. Otherwise, I thank him for his question.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for raising that. I think it is really important that we learn those lessons and draw where we can on the examples of other apologies and the legacy. He is absolutely right to highlight the fact that there is not just the initial injustice; there are all the further injustices at almost every twist and turn—those who were adopted being told when they try to find their parents, “It wouldn’t be good for your mother if you tried to find her,” or that they cannot have access to their own records, which would have helped with their identity and sense of worth. All of these injustices build on the initial injustice, and they are not all so historical, either; some of them are much more contemporary. If we are really going to deal with this, we have to recognise that with our eyes wide open.”
“The hon. Member is absolutely right: there has to be tangible action, and it has to be streamlined, as he described. We need to work with the devolved Administrations. What we cannot do now is add a further injustice to all the injustices we have been describing, by doing anything that makes it harder from hereon in for people to get the support and information they need. We need to action what we are saying today, and we will do so.”
“I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend, and thank him for highlighting the example in his constituency. I suspect there are other examples in all constituencies. We would not be here today without the hard work of the campaigners. Let us be blunt and honest about that. Their work was not heeded quickly enough, in my view. I am glad that we have got to this day; it is an important day for them, but it is also an important day for us, because we need to recognise that this is about the state—how the state responds and how the state acts. It is important for all of us.”