← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · SITTING

Preet Kaur Gill

MP for Birmingham Edgbaston · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Gentleman will understand that this is an independent process, and it is not for the Government to comment on, nor intervene in, individual applications. I am aware that the right hon. Gentleman has also called for the inquiry to be paused or suspended while the CCRC is reviewing Miss Letby’s application.

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

The hon. Member makes some important, valid points. Of course, the Countess of Chester hospital will want to know the outcome of the inquiry. As she rightly says, the CQC has been in and has made lots of recommendations, especially because of the inadequate rating.

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

On top of their grief, they have been subject to a level of press scrutiny that would match anything we have faced as Members of this place. They have been left in limbo, waiting for answers.

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

In addition, we will legislate in this Parliament to enable the Health and Care Professions Council to begin to operate a statutory barring system for senior managers. The mechanism will enable the Health and Care Professions Council to prevent senior NHS leaders whose conduct is unacceptable from working again in senior roles.

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

The inquiry is now in the report-writing stage, and I have every confidence that the chair will consider all the evidence when drawing conclusions and writing her report and recommendations. I do not consider that there is a case to either amend or expand the terms of reference, based on the information currently available.

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

In March 2025, the chair refused the application and set out her reasons in detail. For transparency, that has been made available online. In her judgment, the chair considered, among other things, the question of fairness, and she was satisfied that the inquiry process had been fair and would not become unfair because there is a possibil…

THIRLWALL INQUIRY TERMS OF REFERENCE · 2026-07-16 · READ IN HANSARD

The complete record

Every one of 601 lines we hold for Preet Kaur Gill, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 8 of 13.

  1. Given the existing levers we have available to us in tobacco duty and the focus we are trying to put on delivering a smoke-free future, I am reluctant to introduce something to the statute book that would distract from that priority. Through the Bill, there is already much consultation to be getting on with: on vapes, flavours, packaging and much more besides. I congratulate the hon. Member and the APPG on their excellent work, but this is not our priority at present.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  2. That said, I am certainly no proponent of any policy that would make tobacco cheap and easily available, and indeed it was a Labour Government who brought in a specific tobacco duty in the 1970s in the first place. I understand that the revised proposal includes provisions to ensure that the Government can raise additional revenue from the enormous profits of tobacco producers, while ensuring the costs are not passed on. It is a complicated proposal that would require a team of officials within the Department of Health and Social Care to conduct market analysis, and for a tax to be set at a rate to hit those profits while regulating the prices in shops. Undoubtedly, something with as many moving parts as that would require thorough analysis and consultation, and I recognise that that is what the clause seeks to do.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  3. I thank the hon. Member for Harrow East for raising the issue. As we know, separately from the Bill the Government are also introducing a one-off increase to tobacco duty as well as a vaping excise duty. I know that similar proposals to this one have been raised with the Government in the past, through the great work of the APPG on smoking and health. Previous Ministers expressed concerns that the proposals as previously drafted would serve to make tobacco companies pass on the cost to consumers in the shops. Undoubtedly, none of us wants any policies introduced that would come at the expense of consumers but miss their target: the tobacco giants. When it comes to addiction, we know that our most deprived communities are most likely to smoke. I am conscious of making their lives any more difficult.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  4. I look forward to coming to that in detail with two of my new clauses shortly, but I note that I do not necessarily agree with the Member that it should be a Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency competence to conduct enforcement. My issue with this process has been how products are getting on to the market in the first place. I would not want to disrupt or diffuse responsibilities for cracking down on the very real issue of the widespread market in illicit vapes. I think that that should still primarily be a matter for trading standards on the ground. None the less, I commend the Member for tabling the new clause, and I hope that he will support our proposals on testing.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  5. The new clause relates to the testing of nicotine products and seeks to allow notification fees to be used for more than just the administration of that scheme but a wider, more comprehensive regulatory process, which we have supported. We have discussed clauses 71 to 74 on modifying the notification scheme to include non-nicotine vapes and extend to other nicotine products. Will those clauses allow for the notification fees regulations, which set fees at £150, to be amended accordingly? I commend the hon. Member for Harrow East, as ever, for his work. I must remark that I rather regret that we have scheduled a debate on funding a notification scheme to test products before agreeing on the merits of such a reformed scheme itself.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  6. Given the improved provisions for product IDs, which will come into effect for products entering the country when the new vaping excise duty is introduced, we remarked in Committee that this could be an opportunity to look at setting up something similar for nicotine and vaping products. I fully appreciate the concern of the hon. Member for Harrow East that enforcement will be crucial to the Bill’s success, but my view is that our priority must be to make a success of the enforcement regime that the Bill introduces before considering the case for further regulation. There probably will be a case for further regulation in future.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  7. We have a licensing scheme for alcohol in England and Wales, but the Government have never sought to extend it to tobacco, although it would help us to identify shops that sell the products and streamline our enforcement efforts. I appreciate that many of sanctions related to licensing that are often cited, such as the power to take a licence away, are perhaps a less strong argument in relation to this Bill, because we have restricted premises and restricted sales orders, but I am interested in the Minister’s views. On illicit products, the Government have introduced a track and trace system for tobacco, which is a useful component in monitoring the flow and patterns in the trade in tobacco products around the country.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  8. I do not have much to add, but note that when the Bill was introduced some in the tobacco industry lobbied MPs to include a licensing scheme for vapes only. It would be an egregious situation if we were to take a stronger stance on vapes than on tobacco, which is the real killer. I suspect they hoped for the inclusion of something like that primarily because it would slow the Bill down. I thank the hon. Member for Harrow East for tabling a more balanced new clause, which would introduce licensing schemes for tobacco products as well as for nicotine products and vapes. I have some questions for the Minister. Will she set out why the Government have not opted to set up a licensing scheme for tobacco and vapes?

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  9. I hope the Minister takes this proposal away and looks at it more closely. The restrictions on broadcast sponsorship aside, I would have expected her to be able to share more comprehensive data from the regulators showing what children are being exposed to and where. Will she address that head on and write to us with more detail if she needs to? In the meantime, my greatest concern remains promotions in store and on social media.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  10. For example, the 2016 regulations prohibit e-cigarette product placement or any sponsorship promoting e-cigarettes on radio and TV programmes, where they are most likely to be widely seen. Most crucially, they ban ads for nicotine-containing vapes from most online media, including social media. The very limited exception to that is factual, not promotional, claims on companies’ own websites. Why has the Minister not aligned the legislation in this respect with the extension of other regulations that we have discussed in Committee? Elsewhere, non-nicotine vapes and other nicotine products are essentially treated under the same regulations as those that affect nicotine vapes. I again thank the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire for sharing her concerns, which I fully appreciate.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  11. I thank the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire for tabling the new clause. We absolutely share her concern: we must ensure that children are not exposed to marketing and branding that encourages them to vape. I echo the comments of the chief medical officer: if you do not smoke, do not vape. These are not products for children, and we are determined to crack down on companies trying to addict a new generation to nicotine. The principle that the hon. Lady has raised is really important, which is exactly why the previous Labour Government legislated to end sponsorship by tobacco companies. Although sponsorship for vapes is not prohibited outright, as it is for tobacco, there are clear restrictions on how vapes and nicotine products can be marketed at and advertised to children.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  12. I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, but as I said my greatest concern remains promotions in store and on social media, because that is where lots of young people consume this information. My view is that we need to get on with cracking down on the companies that deliberately sell these products to children in the first place.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  13. New clause 13 would also examine the case for a duty to be applied to trading standards that would be similar to the duty on councils in Northern Ireland to share intelligence on non-compliant and illicit products, so that we can better join up the enforcement response at the national level. Once again, I urge Members to support these new clauses and I commend them to the Committee.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  14. Currently, this power rests with the Secretary of State in the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016 to recall a product if it is deemed to pose a serious risk to human health. This is a high bar. It is my concern that in practice the emergence of such risk can be a slow process. I have told the Minister before how the limitations of this power were made clear the other year when Elf Bar, which is perhaps the market leader in this space, was found to be selling vapes with tank sizes that were larger than allowed. The responsibility to remove those products from the market actually lies with the producer—quite rightly—but this issue is about the recourse that the Government have when a threat is urgent and a company does not comply.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  15. The Secretary of State has testing powers for tobacco products, so why not for vapes? Will the Minister therefore support my new clauses, which seek to address that through this Bill? This is not just about the market as we know it today; this is about safeguarding the future of vapes to ensure that consumers can have confidence in those products and that we, as legislators, can have confidence in the products that we are recommending as stop-smoking aids. That is why I commend new clause 11 to the Committee. Finally, new clause 13 would require the Secretary of State to report on some of the new powers on testing that I have just described, as well as on another power that the MHRA does not have at present, which is to remove notifications from publication.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  16. I appreciate that the exceptions in clause 73 are not yet defined, but the MRHA does not have the powers to gather the information it needs in the first place in order to make those exceptions. As Dr Squire admitted herself, there are cases right now of products getting on to the market that do not match the product registered through the notification scheme. Those products could have tank sizes that are too large; they could include dangerous chemicals or include dangerously high nicotine strengths. Our fundamental concern is that these products are now extremely popular with children. That is why I contend that the MHRA should have additional powers to test a proportion of products to ensure that they comply with their notifications. I think any outside observer would contend that that is common sense.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  17. After a product gets to the market, trading standards proactively ensure that potentially dangerous products are not stocked on shelves, and we have the yellow card scheme for customers to report an adverse reaction to a vaping product. Who is monitoring the long-term risks of these products? I doubt they would be caught by either trading standards or the yellow card scheme, but that is another question. In relation to new clause 11, however, what I am talking about is the screening of products before they get to the UK market to enable the MHRA to have the information it needs to refuse a notification publication, even if the company has, on paper, met the requirements.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  18. It was an interesting discussion but, when it came to the notification process, what I took away was the fact that she could not say, “This is an absolutely robust system that keeps everybody safe,” and, “That is why the Bill is important.” I supported clause 73 to provide exceptions to publication, which would allow policies to be set where the MHRA would refuse to publish the notification for products that would make them available for legal sale. My concern, however, is about what is missing from the legislation to give the MHRA the information it needs to say confidently whether a product is actually safe. I want to be clear in case the Minister raises it: new clause 11 is not about undermining the enforcement role of trading standards teams.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  19. Vapes are a product with clear consequences for the health of the population. There are risks, and some of the long-term health consequences of sustained vape use are not properly understood, but the Government’s policy is effectively to recommend this product as a stop-smoking aid. The Government, therefore, have a responsibility to be able to say with confidence that the products they legally allow on to the market are what they say they are and are safer than smoking. We heard evidence from Dr Squire, the chief healthcare quality and access officer at the MHRA.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  20. Meanwhile, one in five children have now tried vaping. This issue is not only a concern in itself, but there is the issue of whether all these products are safe and whether they are what they say they are. I have raised serious concerns, for example, about the fact that children are puffing on 0% vapes that actually do contain nicotine, which gets them accidentally addicted. This is something that we discussed at the evidence session and that goes to a fundamental question about the MHRA’s role in the regulation of vapes. Is the MHRA really only the administrator of the notification scheme, or should it have a clearer responsibility to regulate and to take responsibility for the safety of vaping products? Clause 73 indicates that the Minister agrees that it should. This is something one would expect the MHRA to take an interest in.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  21. I rise to speak to new clauses 11 and 13 on the testing of nicotine-containing vape products. Earlier we debated clause 73, which will allow Ministers to create new exceptions to publication as part of the notification scheme. We of course welcome those new powers, which represent a concession on the Minister’s part. However, the current notification process, which is what products must go through to get on to the UK market, is not as robust as it should be for nicotine-containing vapes. As we have said, youth vaping is a serious growing issue. In 2021, Labour voted for an amendment to the Health and Care Bill to crack down on the marketing of vapes to children. Since then, according to the most recent survey by ASH, the number of children aged 11 to 17 who are vaping regularly has more than trebled to more than 140,000 British children.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  22. I say to the Minister that my concern is about certain products entering the UK market in the first place. If the MHRA is the only organisation that can test what has been notified, it will be supplied to us, but we know that what arrives is sometimes not actually what is in the notification process. If they were testing before the product came into the UK, that would be the point at which we want to try to address the growth in the illicit markets. I hope the Minister will consider this, especially before Report. I will not push new clause 13 to a vote, but I would like to push new clause 11 because it is really important. The point is about what comes into the country. The MHRA in evidence actually said that it recognises that what is notified that eventually enters the UK is not exactly what is on the notification process.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  23. This would be a complicated piece of legislation to introduce, and now is not the time at which, and the Bill is not the place in which, to do so.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  24. Most public places are already smoke free on a voluntary basis. We do not believe it is necessary or proportionate to make such a legal requirement, which would risk increasing the widespread misperception that vaping is as harmful as smoking. In the United Kingdom, vaping is already prohibited on a voluntary basis in most, if not all, places visited by children; public transport—trains, airports, planes, buses, coaches and ferries—most, if not all, sports stadiums; music venues; many hospitals or hospital grounds; restaurants and cafes, at least definitely those used widely by children; and a lot of pubs and bars. As was discussed in last week’s evidence sessions, the health harms underpinning the smoking ban are not proven for vaping, and such an approach would be hard to justify on health grounds.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  25. I also thank the Clerks and everyone on the Bill team. It has been a privilege. Question put and agreed to . Bill, as amended, accordingly to be reported.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  26. I echo the Minister’s thanks. This Bill implements a flagship public health policy, and all of us are privileged to have taken part in the passage of this world-leading legislation. It is really important that we have heard so many powerful testimonies about the health impacts of smoking, but parents are also worried about the increase in youth vaping, so the fact that we are to ban the marketing and sale of vapes to children will be welcomed by many people across the country. I put on record my thanks to you, Sir Gary, for brilliantly chairing our sittings, and to the Minister, who has been very gracious in her responses. I thank colleagues on both sides of the Committee; it has been brilliant to work with them all and to reach a degree of consensus, although I have no doubt there will be many more things to discuss on Report.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (EIGHTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  27. Clauses 30 and 31 make it clear that local trading standards may conduct programmes of enforcement and issue fixed penalty notices for the breach of existing tobacco age of sale legislation until the new progressive rise in the age of sale comes into effect in 2027. I see nothing to argue with here, and likewise I have no issue with the transitional provisions detailed in clause 32.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  28. If we soon have a general election, the short campaign will rob us of six weeks of the normal course of business and many of the provisions in the Bill, including the consequential amendments on previous Acts of Parliament, will take effect within two months of the Bill’s passing. No doubt the civil service will ably do its job for the most part in preparing relevant authorities and retailers for the commencement of some of the new powers, but what can the Minister do to reassure me that a plan is already in place for the programme of work that needs to happen so that the transition is as smooth as possible?

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  29. It has already been two and a half years since we proposed changes to the law on this and that the Government take that up. Who is the Minister worried about inconveniencing by introducing the regulations quickly, apart from those who would seek to addict children to vapes? I fail to see what legitimate business could risk being disrupted by going faster here, given that clause 9 specifies that it applies “in the course of business”, so it would not necessarily impact the use of vapes as nicotine replacement therapies. There is also a general point to make about timing.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  30. Clauses 28 to 32 deal with transitional arrangements after the Bill is passed and before some of its new regulations come into effect to make consequential amendments to previous Acts of Parliament that will be replaced by the new measures in this Bill. I have looked through the schedules and consequential amendments, and I am satisfied that they tie in with the measures in the Bill that we have discussed. However, I will raise a few concerns, as the schedules relate to the commencement of various clauses of the Bill. For example, the loophole in existing legislation on the free distribution of vapes to under-18s that we discussed should be closed urgently, yet the Government have specified that that should commence only within six months of the Bill’s being passed. Can the Minister explain why she is not taking swifter action?

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  31. I have no detailed comments to make on this clause and we are happy to give it our support. Question put and agreed to. Clause 33 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 34 Interpretation of Part 1 Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  32. Finally, clause 36 amends the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Act 2002, which was brought in under the Labour Government. That seems eminently sensible and I support it. While we are on the subject, the Minister mentioned in the first line-by-line debate that she has recently written to the Advertising Standards Authority about its work and the trends it is seeing. I would be very interested in seeing its response and I would be grateful if the Minister could share that with me too.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  33. In the national conversation about vapes, we could easily see how more unscrupulous companies that have been marketing to children would look to pivot to other products if we do not capture them with this Bill and the regulations that it allows for. I reiterate my earlier question to ensure that the Minister takes it away. Given the inclusion of that definition of “nicotine product” in the Bill, where does she see it necessary for the Government to introduce further regulation of those products—for example, whether they should be included in a notification process or something similar? We of course support those powers and I think the Committee agree on that, but I am keen to understand how advanced her and the Government’s thinking is on this.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  34. First, as I mentioned, the Government already promised to review that a few years ago, so I hope that they have a considered response to those questions either way. Secondly, the same principles apply to the flavours of vapes. With the disposable bans, consumers are effectively being encouraged to assemble their devices themselves to reduce waste. If we do not think carefully about the issue of accessories, I am concerned that we will see similar workarounds in that market too, which will undermine the efficacy of the legislation. If the Minister does not have the information to hand, could she please write to me on that? Clause 35 provides a definition of “nicotine product” that, as we have heard, captures things that are not vapes or tobacco products, and could include things such as nicotine pouches.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  35. Have the Government looked at an expanded definition of tobacco products that would include accessories? If it is appropriate to look at something more narrow and targeted in its scope, would the Minister consider specifically looking at clause 59 on the flavour of tobacco products? Expanding the regulation-making powers to include tobacco-related products and accessories would enable regulations to be designed to capture menthol flavourings and all its derivatives and analogues, including add-on accessories to cigarettes to mask the taste of tobacco. I appreciate that the Minister has until now said that we should not let perfect be the enemy of good, but that is quite a crucial issue.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  36. Researchers think that that indicated that people are using legal accessories, including menthol-flavoured drops, filter balls or cards, or that they are purchasing cigarettes perceived to contain menthol flavouring without it being labelled as such. We will come back to the issue of defining flavours and those specific loopholes in other clauses, but I want to ask here about accessories such as drops, flavour cards and so on. I have looked up those products online and they are blatantly marketed for use with cigarettes—we can buy 25 packs of “rizla menthol extreme infusion flavour cards” for £9 on Amazon. What lessons have the Government learned from that? They were meant to publish a review of the legislation in 2021, but as far as I am aware, they did not.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  37. A study published in the journal Tobacco Control , and part-funded by Cancer Research UK, surveyed 66,000 adults in England, Wales and Scotland from October 2020—five months after the menthol ban was introduced—to March 2023. It found that the number of adult smokers who reported using menthol-flavoured cigarettes at the start of the study period stayed stable at 14%, compared with 16% two and half years earlier. That may simply indicate the size of the illicit market, but the survey also found that only 15% of those who smoked menthol-flavoured cigarettes reported buying from illicit sources, such as under the counter: a proportion similar to those who smoked non-flavoured cigarettes. That instead suggests that the tobacco industry has quite adept legal loopholes to circumvent the ban.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  38. I appreciate that this is all tricky, but I have a few quick comments. I mentioned when we debated clause 11 that there is no definition of “retailer” in the Bill, and my concern related to vending machines. Can the Minister please provide clarity on which powers granted under this Bill enable Government to regulate vending machines for vapes and other nicotine products, if that was deemed necessary? If she cannot answer now, can she please write to me on that? I also want to raise the issue of accessories. I mentioned the ban on menthol cigarettes introduced in 2020, which was no doubt a cautionary tale for us in ensuring that we give careful thought to designing regulations on flavoured vapes.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  39. This is, of course, an extremely important part of the Bill, as it defines many of the terms used in it. We know how adept the industry has become at worming its way around the spirit of regulations that Parliament has debated and agreed in the past. The ban on menthol cigarettes is one example. The clause sets out a series of definitions of what is covered by various terms that we have been using, such as “herbal smoking products”, “retail packaging” and “cigarette papers”. It is very important. We know, and I think we should expect, that the industry will innovate in response to this legislation, and not necessarily in helpful ways. We must ensure that the wording of the definitions we use is specific enough not to have unintended consequences, but broad enough that we do not allow industry to get around them.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  40. Where possible, we do not want to diffuse responsibilities between retailers and customers, or indeed the enforcement authorities that attend to them. I am satisfied that if we have strong and consistent enforcement of the responsibility of retailers to implement age of sale law, that would achieve the same outcomes that the 2010 Act intended.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  41. Clause 39, as the Minister has said, relates to the repeal of section 5 of the Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Act 2010, which made it an offence for someone under the age of 18 to buy or attempt to buy a tobacco product or cigarette papers. As I mentioned in the first sitting, the correct approach is to focus the enforcement of the law on the retailer, not the purchaser. Established businesses should be expected to take a greater degree of responsibility than children, and the law should reflect that. It should be our priority to help children addicted to nicotine, rather than penalise them. Moreover, I take the Minister’s point that this change will make the law easier to interpret and enforce.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  42. I turn to part 2 of the Bill and some of the clauses that apply specifically to Scotland. As the Minister mentioned, Scotland has a proud history of leading on many tobacco control methods, including beating the rest of the UK in introducing regulations to prohibit smoking in enclosed public spaces in 2005. That was the crowning achievement of a proud public health legacy left by the last Labour Governments in Westminster and in Holyrood. I am pleased to see the constructive attitude taken by the Scottish Government to the Bill to avoid any unnecessary regulatory divergence and to offer more certainty for business and consistency for consumers.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  43. I thank the Minister for that explanation. We support the clause, which broadens the definition of “tobacco product” in Scottish legislation and seeks to align that definition with legislation in the rest of the United Kingdom, and clarifies that the definition of nicotine vapour products specifically includes aerosols. Above all, we support the principle that there should be clear and consistent definitions of the products that we seek to capture in regulations under the Bill across all four nations of the United Kingdom. I will take this opportunity to mention my query about the definitions that we use to capture tobacco-related products and accessories, particularly products used to augment the flavour of tobacco products, but we are happy to support the clause.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  44. We are happy to support this clause, which gives Scottish Ministers powers to make consequential amendments to this part of the Bill. Scotland has a proud history of leading the way on tobacco control and putting public health before corporate profit. It brought in the indoor smoking ban before the UK-wide one was introduced nearly 20 years ago. This week, we marked 25 years of the Scottish Parliament—a proud legacy of the previous Labour Government—and the principle of pushing power closer to communities so that Scottish solutions can be found to Scottish problems remains as strong as ever.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  45. As I have explained, such loopholes and regulations undermine an understanding of the law and weaken enforcement by trading standards bodies, which cannot use the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency’s notification publication as a definitive guide to which products are legal. Has the Minister received a commitment from Stormont on introducing such regulations? If so, what is the timeline for doing so?

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  46. I thank the Minister for setting out the Government’s explanation of the clause, which we are happy to support. As she said, it aligns the definition of the sale of nicotine products with the definitions we discussed when we debated clause 34. The caveated phrase “sale by retail” means that business-to-business sales need not be impacted by restrictions on age of sale. The Minister may have touched on this, but I would be grateful if she can explain why Northern Ireland is only being given powers to close loopholes on the free distribution of nicotine products and the sale of non-nicotine vapes, while the Bill will immediately close those loopholes for England and Wales. I note that a study from last year found that half of under-18s in Belfast who attempt to purchase vapes in shops are successful.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  47. In discussions with the devolved nations about the Bill, what efforts has the Minister made to learn from existing tobacco control legislation? Was it a conscious decision to set the fixed penalty notice regime at such a significantly lower level than in Northern Ireland and Scotland? Once again, I am keen to get a clearer sense of her thinking, although we of course welcome the inclusion of clause 5 and schedule 5 in the Bill.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  48. Particularly, section 12 on fixed penalty notices in the 2014 Act has allowed Ministers to introduce fixed penalty notices of £250 for breach of age of sale. In Scotland, that amount is set at £200. As we have discussed, the proposed amount in the Bill is £100 for England and Wales. Has the Minister given any more thought to that issue? Likewise, the 2014 Act introduced a duty on councils to share information about fixed penalty notices, convictions and restricted premises and sales orders that had been given by officers in their local authority area. No similar duty has been introduced in the Bill, which touches on points I have made previously about the need for joined-up government to stop repeat offenders slipping through the net.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  49. I thank the Minister for setting that out. As we have discussed the effect of these amendments, I do not want to dwell on them. For the most part, they align legislation in Northern Ireland to capture tobacco products, nicotine products and vapes in the same way as the rest of the United Kingdom, including age of sale restrictions and the penalties for retailers who break those laws. It also specifically allows non-nicotine vapes to be captured by the same regulatory regime as nicotine vapes in the Tobacco Retailers Act (Northern Ireland) 2014, which we support. As the Minister did not accept the amendment that I tabled in a recent sitting, I would like to draw her attention to some of the sections that schedule 5 amends.

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD

  50. We are happy to support the clause to give Ministers in Northern Ireland the power to make amendments consequential on this part of the legislation, just as we supported clause 47 for Scotland. Question put and agreed to. Clause 57 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 58 Tobacco retail packaging

    TOBACCO AND VAPES BILL (SEVENTH SITTING) · 2024-05-14 · READ IN HANSARD