Luke Pollard
MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“As the Member of Parliament for Devonport, where we not only base-port but refit Type 23s, I know that many of those ships that have given decades of service are no longer able to provide the capabilities we need.”
“It is unlike the SNP to be so positive about defence, isn’t it? The Type 83 and Type 32 were PowerPoints—there was no budget attached to them. That is why in the defence investment plan we set out a plan for a common combat vessel and a hybrid Navy to fulfil the opportunities that the retirement of the Type 45 presents for us.”
“If the right hon. Gentleman is talking about a salary of up to £1 billion, he is cosplaying as the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), isn’t he? Seriously, we are the third-largest cash spender in NATO. At the spending review next year, we will be setting out an increase in defence spending.”
“My hon. Friend really is the Member of Parliament for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, as she is determined to champion it so frequently. She will have seen in the defence investment plan our commitment to the new generation of fleet solid support ships, and she will have seen the work that this Government have undertaken since 2024 to address…”
“I say seriously to the House that my hon. Friend has been an incredible advocate for Rosyth. I have met him on a large number of occasions, and he has been absolutely determined to talk not just about the potential of Rosyth, but about the professionalism of the men and women who work there and the opportunity for young people to have a c…”
“We inherited a situation where the north-east was the region with the lowest Ministry of Defence spend in the country and we have made it a mission to increase defence spending in the north-east. We have an incredible talent pool in the north-east, with brilliant defence companies both large and small doing brilliant work.”
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“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions. He will know that since the general election, we have signed 1,400 major defence contracts, which have supported thousands of SMEs. He will also know that we have stood up the Defence Office for Small Business Growth, a single doorway to increase the Ministry of Defence’s direct spend with SMEs by 50% by 2028. We will continue to work on that, and as someone who was a defence-focused MP before I was a shadow Defence Minister, let alone a Defence Minister, I am proud of my advocacy for Devonport, for Plymouth and for our armed forces. I will continue to make that case from within Government, to give our forces the funding they need and the increase in defence spending that we need. The Government have already set out an ambition to deliver that.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question —we have discussed Aeralis in the past. We are committed to the Red Arrows, and there will be a competition to replace them, as well as the Hawk T1 and T2 training system, which provides the pilots of the future. That will be a competitive process, and it will be up to companies to provide a design, an option, and a training system to support it. That competition will launch in due course.”
“Not only are we using that knowledge to support our friends in Ukraine, we are bringing it back to create capabilities for the UK armed forces. When the DIP is published, which it will be shortly, the right hon. Gentleman will be able to see that.”
“First, let me be very clear with the right hon. Gentleman—who I have a lot of time for—that the new Defence Secretary is someone who served our country in uniform. He served in the Parachute Regiment and was awarded an MBE for his work in uniform. He is someone who I am very proud to serve alongside, and I am working alongside him now to ensure we can deliver a defence investment plan with the funding that is required to renew our forces. The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that times have changed. That is precisely why the capabilities in the defence investment plan aim to retire old kit and bring on investment in new kit, particularly drones—one-way effectors, the hybrid navy and autonomy. We are learning the lessons from Ukraine; because we are there, standing alongside our friends, we can see how Russia fights and what works.”
“I will continue making the case for more defence spending. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor are aware of that and are increasing it.”
“I remember sitting where the Leader of the Opposition is now when the then Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, described the hollowing out and underfunding by the Conservative Government. Let me also be clear, in answering my hon. Friend’s question directly that, I want more of a rising defence budget spent with British companies. An increasing defence budget spent with British companies is more jobs and more opportunities for our young people. Defence spending is reindustrialisation of our communities. It is an engine for growth and that is why we are investing in skills, in our small and medium-sized enterprises and in innovation. If we do all of that right, we will give our fighting forces the equipment they need to deter and, if necessary, defeat aggression. I welcome the debate on how much we spend and how quickly.”
“I have a lot of time for the hon. Gentleman, and he will know that much of the DWP budget that he describes pays pensions and benefits to those who cannot work. Where people can work, we are giving them support to get back into the economy and back into work. That is an important part of a Labour Government’s mission to help everyone to work if they can. The case that he makes for increasing defence spending is part of this debate. As well as the total figure, I am equally interested in the capabilities we are spending it on. It is not just about a calendar day when a document gets published, but about what capabilities, what drones and what ability we need in our hybrid Navy; what do we need to invest in to create the deterrence to increase our warfighting readiness? That is a good debate to have.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her work. She is not only a good voice in support of the armed forces in her constituency, but one of the loudest voices in support of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. It is a key part of our military apparatus, and we are continuing to invest in it. She is right that we will publish a fully funded defence investment plan ahead of the NATO summit in only a few weeks’ time. It is the first time in 20 years that we have had a line-by-line review of defence spending. It looks at the capabilities that we need and at investment not just in kit and equipment but in our people and our estates.”
“We are addressing the retention and recruitment crisis that saw so much of our Navy personnel hollowed out, in particular addressing the shortage subjects such as marine engineering, and ensuring that we are giving our Royal Marines the latest kit and equipment. The new Kraken K3 Scouts for 47 Commando are a good example of the way in which we are equipping our Royal Marines with the equipment that they need.”
“HMS Broadsword was quite a ship. I remember going on her when I was growing up in Plymouth many moons ago—and that is a good example of what we are doing. We are having to retire old capabilities. The frigate force in particular—the Type 23s—were run on far too long, and should have been replaced long before the orders were placed by the last Government. That is creating difficulties in the frigates that we have. But let me tell Glen and the House what we are doing about it. We are investing in a new hybrid Navy with more autonomous, uncrewed capabilities. We are installing DragonFire, our directed energy weapon system, on Type 45 destroyers.”
“My hon. Friend is right: I have had many good times in Filton and Bradley Stoke, not only with the amazing people who work at the National Armaments Director Group at Abbey Wood—those who work tirelessly to give our people the kit and equipment that they need—but when seeing some of the superb work that Rolls-Royce is doing, for instance, in supporting not just the global combat air programme but the operational effectiveness of our air platforms today. Other businesses, large and small, in my hon. Friend’s patch will benefit from the 10 years of certainty that will come from the defence investment plan, and it will be published before the NATO summit.”
“Yes, we will be publishing the DIP ahead of the NATO summit, as the Prime Minister has been saying for a number of weeks, and it will not just set out the kit and capabilities. Unlike the defence equipment plans that we inherited from the Conservative party—which were unfunded; there was, for instance, an £18 billion black hole in their equipment plan—the DIP will also deal with the estates, the housing situation, and our people, vital enablers of a whole defence project. A line-by-line review has highlighted the mistakes, such as the lack of support contracts that we saw under the Conservatives. As I have said, this will be a funded plan, and it will be published ahead of the NATO summit.”
“That sounds like a very good description of the procurement record of the Government of which the hon. Gentleman was a member when he was a Conservative, but let me say this very simply to Reform: where is your defence spokesperson? Reform Members are often missing from defence events. Where are they? Let us make sure that we have the investment, because I want to see armed forces that stand up to Russia, not Reform politicians who accept bribes from Russia.”
“By the next decade, nine in 10 defence homes will have been either rebuilt or refurbished, giving our people the homes that they should have had for many years, but which they are getting only because a Labour Government are providing the funding.”
“It was a scandal that so many of our armed forces personnel were being asked and required to live in accommodation with black mould, broken boilers and leaky roofs. It directly affected the fall in morale that we saw in every single service for nearly the duration of the Conservative Government, and it led to the retention and recruitment crisis. It is the reason why, when in opposition, we said that we would make improving defence housing a priority, and why in government we have announced a £9 billion programme to improve defence homes. Not only did we have a target of delivering improvements to the 1,000 worst defence homes by Christmas—a target that we achieved ahead of time—but we have completed the next 200 most appalling homes.”
“I am here to talk about defence policy rather than the Labour party leadership, I am afraid, but let me be very clear: the Prime Minister has set out his desire to spend more on defence and to spend it faster. I welcome that because I want to see more defence spending. We have a profile that already increases defence spending to 2.5% of GDP in April 2027—something never achieved in 14 years of Conservative Government. I welcome the important debate about how we can go faster on defence spending; I also want to see a debate about what capabilities we are spending on and how much more of the money is directed at UK businesses. That is what I hope will happen in the next couple of weeks.”
“Working with NATO partners is a key plank of how we increase the deterrence and security of the United Kingdom. In the past few days, I have had conversations with our friends in Norway about how we can build a combined frigate force. I have had conversations with our French, German, Polish and Italian allies about how we can bring forward more defence investment by working together on a number of capabilities. We will continue to do that, but as my hon. Friend has set out, we are committed to spending 3.5% of GDP on defence as part of 5% being spent on national security by 2035, including 3% in the next Parliament. I will continue to make the case for increased defence spending, and for more capabilities for our armed forces.”
“It is the same answer that I have given for quite some time: the defence investment plan will be published ahead of the NATO summit in only a few weeks’ time. I join the hon. Gentleman in his words of thanks to the previous Defence Secretary and the previous Minister for the Armed Forces. Serving alongside two people with a passion for defence has been a real privilege for me, and I share the passion and commitment of the new Defence Secretary. We have a job to get this right. We know that it is important and that it matters, which is why we are continuing to increase defence spending. A debate that asks how quickly we are increasing defence spending, and what more we can do, is a debate that I welcome, but let us also make sure that we are talking about what we are spending on.”
“That is why we are setting out, in the defence investment plan, the implementation of the SDR: to start the process of getting us to a more lethal force.”
“My hon. Friend is assiduous in raising the people involved in tech. I have visited Suffolk, which is an area where SMEs do really well; indeed, I have been to a Ukrainian drone manufacturing company that has set up in that part of the world. We need to learn the lessons from Ukraine, and that means more autonomy, more drones, a more joined-up way of thinking and a change in the way we fight, if only because the way that Russia has fought in Ukraine shows that some of the doctrine we have traditionally followed and inherited from the Conservatives—the difference between the close and the deep, how artillery and drones work together, and how we can hold ground and take it—have changed fundamentally.”
“I have a lot of time for the right hon. Gentleman. He and I are on different sides of the Chamber, but we made the case for increased defence spending during the last Parliament, and I am glad he is with me in arguing for increased defence spending in this Parliament as well. We will continue to make the case for that and to look at how we can deliver those increased capabilities.”
“We will work with our NATO friends not only on joint procurement projects, but on how we operate, train and deploy more together.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his work with the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. It is important not just that we have a Labour Government with a NATO-first approach, but that parliamentarians from all parties make the case for UK leadership. We are currently working with a number of our NATO allies on both the coalition of the willing activity for Ukraine, and the UK-led mission to help reopen and de-mine the strait of Hormuz in the future. We are working with our NATO friends to make sure we are increasing deterrence and, where possible, moving from interoperability to interchangeability to ensure that our kit and equipment can be shared. That increases warfighting ability, increases lethality, smooths supply chains and poses a greater deterrent option against Russia, which we will continue doing.”
“We are seeing an increased number of Russian ships in our waters and we know that the threat to our undersea cables and our airspace is real and increasing. I hope that we can find a new cross-party consensus with the SNP, which I hope will start with the SNP Government funding a second defence technical excellence college in Scotland to give our young people the skills they need.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. It is not normal that the SNP has a very strong pro-defence line, but it is, I guess, welcome. If this is a change of heart from the Scottish nationalists, I broadly welcome it. The hon. Gentleman will have seen the action over the weekend against Russia’s shadow fleet. He will also know of the work we do out of Scotland—for instance, at the Faslane submarine operating base and RAF Lossiemouth, with the P-8A maritime patrol aircraft and the quick reaction response aircraft—to ensure that we work in particular with our Norwegian allies and with our allies across the High North. The defence investment plan only increases the investment in that part of the world, because it is an area where we are seeing increased risk from Russia.”
“It was a privilege to be in Blackpool for the announcement of the five English DTECs. It is an opportunity, for the very first time for defence, to invest in the skills of our young people. My hon. Friend will have seen not only a Labour Government investing in further education, with the five DTECs in England, one in Wales and hopefully two in Scotland, but, in the last week, our announcement of funding for more further education colleges and universities to provide defence and defence-adjacent skills. To deliver on the increased defence spending we are making, we will need more investment in skills, especially for 16 to 19-year-olds, graduates and—an area that is talked about less—those retraining in mid-career. I know Blackpool has a real focus on that, especially working with BAE Systems on Typhoons at Samlesbury and Warton.”
“The hon. Lady is right to argue that we need more investment in our steel industry. That is why the defence industrial strategy identified steel as one of the sectors we need to invest in more. It is also why, under this Government, we are seeing more investment in, for example, Sheffield Forgemasters, which has a specialist steelmaking capability that we use in certain parts of defence. I am very happy if she wants to write to me on the particular issue she raises.”
“Look, I want to see more defence spending, but the way we have drafted the defence investment plan is as a scalable proposition. With more defence spending, we would see more drones, more investment in our stockpile, a faster recovery of personnel numbers, more investment in autonomy and the hybrid Navy, and more investment in housing and the regeneration of our estate, in particular the regeneration of our ports and our naval refit facilities. That would make such a big difference to availability. The DIP is deliberately designed to be a scalable plan to reflect the spending we receive.”
“That is a good one. As someone who comes from a defence family, whose— [ Interruption. ] The Leader of the Opposition sighs. Let us talk about those people who come from a proud military family. I am proud that my old man was a submariner. I am proud of his service. I represent a military city. It has taken years upon years to get a Labour Government. I respect the decision that my former ministerial colleagues made. I decided to stay and I was encouraged to stay. There is a good reason for doing so. Given the activities over the weekend, I am proud to continue to work alongside some incredibly brave and professional people in our armed forces to keep our nation safe.”
“The new Defence Secretary wants to get the best deal for our armed forces, and the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, equally, are planning to increase defence spending. A debate that says, “How fast, by when, and spending on what?” is one that I welcome.”
“We are already increasing defence spending, renewing our forces, fixing defence housing, increasing the pay of our armed forces, and tackling the toxic culture that existed in our armed forces, to make working in defence good for every person. I want to see that go faster and further. With more defence spending, we can deliver more and greater deterrents and greater lethality. As someone who feels passionate about defence, I welcome a debate about increasing defence spending. I have a lot of time for the former Defence Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, and the former Armed Forces Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns), and the arguments that they have made. I want to see more defence spending.”
“As the right hon. Gentleman would know if he was present at more Defence questions, I like defence scrutiny and debate. As far as I am concerned, everyone could go round again, because more questions on defence, especially on capabilities—not on timing or what happened last week, but on the capabilities we need to invest in—are a debate that I welcome.”
“We are not only looking at small drones, the EW environment, radars and command and control systems; what I am learning from Ukraine is how we build all those things together. The former Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak, set out clearly how we can learn from Ukraine. The strategic defence review sets out how we are learning from Ukraine. The defence investment plan sets out how we will buy more drone technology and learn that way. I welcome more investment going into defence. The more that we learn from Ukraine, the greater deterrent capability we have to stop Putin looking over the NATO boundary and thinking he can have a go at a Baltic state, somewhere along the eastern flank, or even at the United Kingdom.”
“I know that the Conservatives do not like hearing about their hollowing out of the armed forces, but that is what we inherited and are trying to put right. If the Conservatives had spent the level of defence spending that they now argue for when they were in power, only two years ago, perhaps we would not have such a big challenge today. [ Interruption. ] I do not like it when the Conservatives groan about our armed forces; I do not think it is respectful enough or what we need. As to my hon. Friend’s question, when we look at Ukraine, we see the way in which drone technology is changing in an electronic warfare environment. We are supporting that by buying 120,000 drones this year for our friends in Ukraine, utilising cutting-edge British technology. Some brilliant British companies are working with brilliant Ukrainian companies.”
“This is a really important task—it is the first duty of the Government. I want to see more defence spending because I do not want to see the United Kingdom in a war like the one our friends in Ukraine are fighting now. That is why we must continue to support our friends in Ukraine for as long as it takes and why we must invest in the new kit and capabilities that our forces need to deter aggression. That is what this Labour Government will do.”
“Of all the people I expected to be arguing for more defence spending, the right hon. Gentleman was not among them. Let me say very clearly to him: NATO is the guarantor of much of our security. This Government are proud to have a NATO-first policy, working with our NATO allies across the Euro-Atlantic area to deter Russian aggression. We can see what happens when deterrence fails; we can look at our friends in Ukraine to see Russian aggression, with attacks on civilian infrastructure, including one overnight—an attack that we correctly condemn for the brutality and illegality of targeting civilian infrastructure. We can see what happens when deterrence fails. That is why we are investing more in defence to increase our deterrence alongside our allies in order to prevent conflict in the future.”
“We need to spend on the kit and equipment that keeps our people safe and provides deterrence and warfighting capability. That is exactly what this Labour Government are doing: investing in our people and in our forces. Of course I want to see more defence spending—that is an argument that we are making, and we will continue to do so with the defence investment plan published before the NATO summit.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her question. I also thank all those who served in the Falklands in the 1982 conflict. Yesterday marked the 44th anniversary of Liberation Day, which is celebrated in both the United Kingdom and the Falkland Islands; it is important that we remember the sacrifice of the people who went to the south Atlantic and never came back. That is one of the reasons that I want to see more defence investment and for us to have the deterrent capability. I come from a military family, with members of my family having served across the forces, so I know that when serving personnel go away, there is always a question mark over whether they will come home. That is precisely what drives me in my passion for more defence spending.”
“We support all 62 recommendations of the SDR, and they are all in progress. The defence investment plan sets out how we will deliver our equipment, personnel and estates for the next 10 years. I want to see more defence investment—the argument that was made by my former colleagues is powerful. I do want to see more defence spending, and I welcome the argument and debate about that across the House.”
“Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Sandher-Jones)—another veteran serving in a key role. Both of them will do a good job for our nation.”
“I can confirm that we will continue to invest in our people. I think the last time we had a defence review that did not cut the size of the British Army was in the late ’80s. In the strategic defence review published under this Labour Government, we announced that we will increase the size of the British Army to 76,000. We know that the Army’s strength fell considerably and that there was a retention and recruitment crisis in our armed forces under the Conservative Government. That is precisely what we are addressing with the biggest pay rise for our armed forces and by taking action on housing and childcare. I welcome the new Minister for Veterans and People, but I also want to say that I am really proud of the new Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon.”
“It means doing something that the armed forces have not done for a very long time: discarding some of that kit and equipment that has been around for many, many decades and investing in newer technologies. That is a difficult argument for Ministers to make—it is difficult for those people who are attached to old equipment in particular—but when we have armour that has been in service since before the Vietnam war and ships that are decades past their decommissioning date, we need to be honest about the need to retire old equipment and buy new equipment. The hybrid Navy is just one example of what we will be setting out in the defence investment plan.”
“I have a lot of time for the former Defence Secretary and the former Armed Forces Minister, and I agree with much of the argument they have made about the importance of increasing defence spending. That is why today I have set out continually from the Dispatch Box that I want to see more defence spending, and I want to see it directed at British companies. I want to see us prepare to deter the next conflict. To do that, we need to invest more in drones, and that is what the defence investment plan will set out. However, as I have said, the defence investment plan is a deliberately scalable document that can reflect an increasing defence budget. That is what we are projecting over the coming decade, delivering our commitment to 3.5% on core defence by 2035. Spending more on the new capabilities, though, does mean retiring old capabilities.”
“Member will not get me, or any other Minister, to comment on special forces. I suggest that she thinks carefully before asking questions like that again.”
“I will say two things to the hon. Member. I know that she is relatively new to the House, but it is a really important rule that we do not comment on special forces. We neither confirm nor deny activities or visits to any special forces location. We do that deliberately, because any question that helps define who is where and what they are doing is of benefit to our adversaries. I appreciate that she was looking for a “gotcha” question, but let me take her back to the important thing: we do not comment on special forces. What I have seen from our Prime Minister and the former Defence Secretary is their meeting the crews of our ballistic submarines when they return on zero day, after many months under the sea. I have seen them support the brilliant service of armed forces personnel. I am afraid that the hon.”
“For the Royal Navy especially—he mentioned the importance of air defence—we are looking at how uncrewed systems can sail alongside crewed systems, providing that air defence bubble. Learning lessons from our friends in Ukraine and from recent activities in the middle east and Cyprus will be an important part of that. He will be able to recognise that immediately when he reads the DIP, on its publication.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for his question. He will know from his time in the Ministry of Defence and on the NATO PA that getting procurement right and fixing the broken procurement system we inherited is important. We have already taken a number of steps to get there. I think he will recall that I gave an answer on the Type 83 last week, at the last urgent question on this topic. If he looks back at that, he will get his answer. Let me say clearly to the right hon. Member that we inherited an equipment plan that was overcommitted and unsuitable for the challenges we now face. That is one of the reasons we are looking to invest more in autonomy and more in hybrid and uncrewed systems.”
“That is especially true of those small and medium-sized enterprises with huge growth potential, and we need to ensure that they can compete for contracts. That is one of the reasons we are looking at new ways of procuring through the Commercial X procurement model and learning lessons from the Taskforce Kindred for Ukraine procurement. We are bringing those into mainstream UK armed forces procurement to speed it up, which means that more SMEs will be able to benefit from it. More capital injection into defence—both from the Government, as we are planning, and from private sources—is a good course.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her question and Martin for his interest in how we increase defence spending. She will know from our debates in this Chamber that it is not just the defence investment plan that we are working on currently. We are also looking at how, through a defence finance and investment strategy, working with our defence advisory group for City professionals, we can look at accessing new forms of capital, including patient, sovereign and a whole range of capital options. I know that the hon. Lady and her party are keen on the war bonds option, and I am happy to look at the detailed analysis of that if her party has any, but we do not just need investment in core defence; it is also about investing in the supply chain.”
“I have seen the previous Defence Secretary make the case for defence spending, and I have seen the Prime Minister and the Chancellor increase defence spending since Labour came to office. I know that there is a very strong case, to meet the moment, for further increasing defence spending. That is why the new Defence Secretary has been speaking to the Prime Minister and to colleagues across Government about how best we can deliver a DIP that will increase our warfighting capability and end the hollowing out and the absence of funding in the equipment plan. About 30% of the equipment plan we inherited from the Conservatives was unfunded. There is lots of work to do, but we will publish the DIP before the NATO summit.”