Mary Kelly Foy
MP for City of Durham · Labour · United Kingdom
“The school has a physical capacity for 650 pupils, and a financial break-even point of roughly 350. A senior staff member said in their parting message: “Whatever you read, this isn’t a VAT story. It isn’t a falling rolls or unstoppable decline story.”
“Will she advise me whether an independent investigation could be called into GGE’s management of Durham, Malvern and Ruthin to establish exactly what happened?”
“Thankfully, the school business manager prioritised the livelihoods of the hard-working staff, paid the wages and ignored the demand. However, in a final blow to devastated staff, I heard just yesterday that the administrators have informed them they cannot claim unpaid salaries for July and August, despite already carrying out their work…”
“All this background leads us to the crux of the situation: more than 280 children have been left stranded without a school, staff have been left without jobs and young women who sat their public exams this summer may not even be able to collect their results in the school where they studied.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to draw the House’s attention to a hugely concerning issue that has recently unfolded in my constituency: the sudden closure of Durham high school.”
“What happened at Durham high school will not simply go away. My constituents may be down but they are certainly not out, and they are driven by a desire for justice.”
The complete record
Every one of 601 lines we hold for Mary Kelly Foy, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 7 of 13.
“Dr Branston and I have published on the idea of “polluter pays” or using a price cap system, so there is some evidence out there, and some evaluations or modelling of the impacts it might have and the revenue it would bring in. I would really support that.”
“Not only does it have the economic advantage of raising money that could be used to address the harms caused by smoking, but it would restrict the industry’s ability to price its products as it is currently able to. We know that it uses clever pricing tactics to make tobacco both affordable and profitable for the industry. On every level, a “polluter pays” levy would be a win-win for society, so I absolutely support it. Professor Gilmore: I would support that 100%. If I go back to my response to the earlier question about how we have a system problem, that is the sort of measure that can help us to address that system problem.”
“It is obscene that the industry can make so much profit by killing up to two thirds of its long-term users. Addressing that profit incentive will go a long way to stopping the interest that the industry has in selling these deadly products. As you know, those products cause massive costs to society, so I think it is entirely reasonable that the companies make a bigger contribution. In that regard, I know that the excise tax that is currently levied on tobacco products is not directly paid by the tobacco firms—it is passed on to smokers who are addicted to those products—so the “polluter pays” levy is an idea that I would strongly support. I encourage others to do so as well.”
“Q I think a lot of people will be quite shocked at the statistics that you have just outlined to us on the profits big tobacco is making and the shocking tactics it uses to keep users addicted, ultimately killing half the people who buy its products. I know that this is not in the Bill, but would you support a “polluter pays” levy, so that at least the tobacco industry could give something back to society for the harm it is causing at an individual level, by killing people, and at the societal level, at the expense of our NHS? Do you think that that could be added to the Bill? I do not want to put you on the spot with that question, but in principle would you support a levy on the tobacco industry? Dr Branston: Absolutely. I would very much welcome that.”
“Professor West: What is really interesting about the concern that people had, which is perfectly reasonable a priori, is that people can tell the difference. There has been no sense in which the increase in vaping has led to an increase in the sense that all smoking is okay.”
“Q When I was first involved in tobacco control over a decade ago, at the advent of vapes it was said, “This is shocking. It’s awful. It will keep that normalisation of smoking, because it is that habit of putting something in your mouth and it is cool. Let’s not use vapes.” But over time I have come to learn that that habit is great for people who are trying to quit smoking, so vapes are seen as a positive tool. Has that put back the denormalisation of smoking for young people? I do not think they would go around saying “Let’s get a nicotine patch”. You have not seen any aspect of that? It has not slowed down that denormalisation? Professor McNeill: No, and that is why it is important to keep them separate, and their relative risks.”
“That is what it has always done, so that is what it will do. This Bill gives powers to Ministers in the four nations to make sure they can restrict these products to the extent that you can make them not attractive, but attractive enough to smokers to move on. It allows the slider to be moved left or right to balance attractiveness to smokers against not making it attractive to non-smokers.”
“Q I thank the panellists for being here. I want to go back to clause 62 and the issue of vapes and flavouring. In the interest of brevity, would you say that if we ban all flavours there is a risk that some ex-smokers will be dissuaded from continuing to vape? Professor Sir Chris Whitty: There is a surprising degree of consensus on this issue, which is sometimes difficult to pick up. We know it is useful to have in the armamentarium the ability to have some flavours to help smokers to quit, but we also know that the cigarette industry is extraordinarily good at adapting its marketing techniques to whatever leeway it is given. If Ministers do not have the power to chase down the industry’s ability to market to children using flavours, that is what it will do: it will go for multiple flavours as a way to get to children and non-smokers.”
“Q I have seen a product that is just a plain bottle with “vape” and a number written on it, which is exactly the same flavour as the one that is clearly marketed to children with a teddy bear on it. If we get rid of that packaging and advertising, could we still use some flavours? Professor Sir Chris Whitty: Possibly, but this Bill gives powers that allow us to vary it depending on what the industry does. That is really the point.”
“There are other ways that we can help you get you through your day,” but you have to get them round the clock face that I was talking about, until the point comes when they say, “I’ve got to do it now.””
“Q This question is particularly for Professor Hawthorne. From your experience, can you tell us what impact smoking tobacco has on our most deprived communities? Professor Hawthorne: It is much more prevalent. There is a theory called future discounting. If you have few choices—if you do not have much money and much choice in what you eat, what you do and where you work—you do not think about your health in 20 years’ time; you think about today. Many people feel that smoking helps them get through the day, and that is what they do. It is a really difficult thing to talk to people about because some people will say to me, “I’ve just got to. I can’t get through my day otherwise.” I can say, “There are alternatives.”
“Daily on our helplines we hear people saying, “I wish I had never taken up smoking.” They are completely addicted and find it almost impossible to get out of smoking, and their health is being slowly degraded over time. They are having to come out of the workforce and retire early and potentially face death as well.”
“The majority of people across the UK support the Bill and would love to see a smoke-free generation. The fact that you have 51% of retailers supporting it also speaks to how powerful a moment it is. We should do anything that we can to strengthen the Bill and prevent it from being diluted. We know that the tobacco industry will be campaigning in the opposite direction to limit any restrictions that would reduce its success, so we are really mindful of that. We urge the Committee and everyone who can to protect the Bill from dilution. It can save and improve lives. It is potentially a transformative piece of legislation. Sarah Sleet: We asked our supporters who was in favour of the Bill. Bearing in mind that many of our supporters may still be smoking or are ex-smokers, 84% supported the Bill and really wanted to see it come through.”
“Q We have heard that this Bill covers tobacco and vaping, and we have talked quite a bit about the advertising and packaging of vapes. Do you think that we could go further in actually tackling tobacco, which is the biggest killer, around the advertising and packaging of tobacco and flavoured tobacco? Dr Griffiths: We would welcome anything that stops people smoking or beginning to vape as a starting point for their addiction to nicotine. Given the scale of the devastation that that has on people personally as well as on our NHS in terms of cost burden and all the other impacts that it has, we fully support the Bill going through in full as it is now. If there are opportunities and support for strengthening it, I am sure that we would welcome that too.”
“This is an area where educators have an important role to play. Matthew Shanks: I would just add to that by encouraging you to visit your local schools and see what they are doing.”
“Patrick Roach: The reality is that we need more space in the curriculum to do all that and to make the connections between vaping, the impact on a child’s health, and how these companies are profiteering, often from the most vulnerable. The producers of vaping products, the degradation of the environment, the way products are manufactured—all of this is very rich territory. I would like to see more by way of permission for teachers and school leaders to engage with their pupils about the real everyday concerns that young people have. There should be more scope and space in the curriculum to do that. That is not to argue against the teaching of maths, science and languages; it is about saying that we want to produce well-rounded individuals. For us, that is the purpose of education.”
“Matthew Shanks: That is happening at the moment within education, in curriculums and so on, but there is a lack of messaging around vaping, its harmful effects and its cheapness compared with tobacco. Even with the teaching of the harmful effects and the messaging compared with tobacco, there are still some families who smoke and you still see celebrities smoking. You are fighting that all the time. It is good that we are educating young children about the harmful effects of things and the need to change, and we will continue to do that. We talk about big tobacco companies, big pharma, the global environment and so on, all within the curriculum.”
“Q Following on from Bob’s question, you are in a position to educate young people about the harms of tobacco. Is there a point here about educating young people about the harms, about the unscrupulous measures that the tobacco industry takes and about the horrific products that it is making? Young people are often interested in climate change and wider issues. These industries and organisations are having an impact across the whole world. It could be something that young people are interested in—not just for their health, but for the wider impact on their local communities and across the world. If we had more funding for education, maybe with a payer levy, those types of measures could be looked at. Is there any opportunity for that type of education in schools?”
“To give you a reference, covid killed 1,500 people over the period of the pandemic. Smoking kills 700 people every year, year on year, and that is before we get into the illnesses. Aggregated across the country, that is 80,000-odd people—a Wembley stadium-sized group of people, a non-trivial number. It is also very inequitable and led by addiction. People spend enormous amounts of money on smoking, so stopping smoking would free up that money to be spent in other ways. Smoking remains the No. 1 cause of death and it is very inequitable—almost certainly causing the largest gap in healthy life expectancy and life expectancy inequality.”
“Q This is a question for Greg. It would be useful for the Committee and for people watching to hear your view on the impact of smoking and tobacco on public health. Greg Fell: It is the single biggest cause of death. There is no real question about that. It may not be in many years’ time when smoking prevalence has come down, but right here, right now, it is. No other product is available that kills more than half its users when used according to the manufacturer’s instructions. Death is often preceded by a long illness—sometimes a short illness, but often a long one—often in folk of working age. Most people who die from smoking-related illnesses die too early. Sheffield-wise—I know my numbers locally—it is a bit north of 700 deaths a year out of 5,000 or so, so not insignificant.”
“The UK has shown great leadership by commissioning evidence-based reviews that are completely independent of Government; we have had eight of those now since 2014. That has been incredibly important. Fresh is not complacent. We have been monitoring the evidence around the rise in vaping and how this is positioned in terms of public health for the last 20 years—since we were set up. I would strongly recommend that many of the really useful questions we have had today could be answered by looking at those systematic reviews from the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities. In particular, when people say, “We don’t know what’s in vaping,” there is a significant chapter on the constituent chemicals and so on in vaping, and the magnitude of potential harm. I have forgotten the second bit of your question, Mary.”
“Q Thanks to Ailsa for everything that Fresh does in the north-east and for the wonderful results we have seen in the north-east, which is a very deprived area in places. I want to follow up on the question on evidence in vaping. Although there are still a few grey areas and unknowns about vapes, we know that vaping is much less harmful than tobacco. Crucially, it is a really important tool for those people who do smoke. What evidence does Fresh use to back up this argument? Do you feel there is a worry that if we focus too much in the Bill on youth vaping, we will leave behind those dependent, addicted and, very often, deprived smokers? Ailsa Rutter: I think we are really fortunate in the UK.”
“If we are really intent on ending smoking, we must do more on alcohol. Wearing my Balance hat—Balance is the alcohol bit—it is really important that we do not think of risk-taking behaviour in youth as just vaping. Last week, the World Health Organisation published a report that shows that across 44 countries, the UK sadly has the highest use of alcohol among 11-year-olds. I hope nobody thinks that the amount of alcohol promotion, advertising, marketing and so on is okay. I think it is quite important that we look at risk-taking behaviours in the round.”
“It was about the use of vapes by heavily dependent smokers. Ailsa Rutter: Yes. In the north-east, vapes have been a “game changer” for some of our heavily addicted smokers. I have permission to share with you the fantastic role that vapes have played in our biggest mental health trust, Cumbria, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear. We are talking about people who have been smoking 40 or 50 cigarettes a day, often for decades, who have really struggled to imagine that they could ever get off lethal smoking. Being able to give them something that still gives them their nicotine, but in a much purer, safer and cleaner form, has been a game changer. Vapes are being used successfully in our drug and alcohol treatment services—on the point about alcohol, the two often go hand in hand.”
“Q Just a very quick question: would you agree that this is symptomatic of the throwaway society that we live in? We have disposable vapes, plastic toys with happy meals and toasters—all small appliances that do not last long enough. They are all thrown away and are damaging the environment. I know that, in Durham, all sorts of electronic devices are thrown in the river, and that is interfering with wildlife.”
“The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to bring forward legislation to ensure that the Secretary of State for Education can provide the pupils at St. Leonard's Catholic School mitigating circumstances for their exams this year, and all those who suffer similar circumstances. And the petitioners remain, etc. [P002959]”
“The Department for Education has so far expressed indifference to the parents, pupils and teachers at St Leonard’s following the reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete crisis. With exams imminent, the Department must now listen to the petitioners and provide the pupils with the mitigating circumstances they deserve. The petition states: The petition of residents of the United Kingdom, Declares that the Department for Education is not doing enough to mitigate the anxieties and stress of the parents, pupils and teachers at St. Leonard’s Catholic School in City of Durham following on from the disruption caused by RAAC; further declares that pupils at St. Leonard's Catholic School have not been offered mitigating circumstances for the disruption to their education caused by RAAC.”
“This is such a hugely important debate. Bus services in the City of Durham are, quite frankly, ridiculous. To add insult to injury, the former buses Minister, who my hon. Friend refers to, is from our patch.”
“Constituents tell me that real-time data is a huge issue, making it impossible for them to accurately plan their journeys, whether for a very rare dental appointment or to get to school on time. It is even worse for those in smaller rural communities where they are often put off using public services due to infrequent or unreliable bus services. It is really affecting them, especially when they are waiting, as my hon. Friend says, for up to an hour for a bus that may or may not turn up. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that we need to see buses in the north-east taken into public control, like in Manchester?”
“As the death toll rises in Gaza, so does the misery of women and girls in the occupied territories. I am increasingly concerned that aid is not getting to them. The United Nations says that there is a chronic aid access problem, and that women are having caesarean sections without anaesthetic. What is going on? Is the aid not getting to them? What steps is the Department taking to ensure that it does?”
“Cynics say, “What will a vote in a Parliament, thousands of miles away from Palestine, do for Palestinians?” For one, Britain is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council—we have enormous influence on the world stage. More importantly, it would give those innocent Gazans, whose lives have been torn apart, a glimmer of hope that the world has not forgotten them. I repeat today the call for a ceasefire, in the earnest hope that the Minister will reconsider his position.”
“According to the United Nations, it is estimated that 70% of those killed are women and children. Two mothers are killed every hour, close to 3,000 women have been widowed, and 1 million women and girls have been displaced. To add another layer of misery, caesarean sections are performed without anaesthetic, and women and girls have little or no access to period products. My constituent, Dr Thomas Butts, who teaches development neurobiology in the School of Medicine at the University of Sunderland, told me: “The extent and severity of trauma-related psychiatric illness in Gazan children’s future will be horrific and will get worse the longer that the bombardment continues.” What are the Government doing to relieve the pain that so many Gazans are experiencing?”
“They were in a place of worship—something that is recognised under international humanitarian law and the Geneva convention. I am no expert, but like so many people outside this place, I know that what happened at the Holy Family parish church was wrong. Those women deserve justice, as does everyone else who has suffered. The United Nations has described the situation in Gaza as “a living hell”, and the under-secretary general for humanitarian affairs said: “Famine is around the corner…For children in particular, the past 12 weeks have been traumatic: No food. No water. No school. Nothing but the terrifying sounds of war, day in and day out.” The last time I checked, the death toll in Gaza was over 25,000—it may be more by the end of this debate.”
“Pope Francis condemned the attack, as did the Archbishop of Westminster. Cardinal Vincent made a point we should all reflect on: “the people in Gaza and the Cardinal Archbishop of Jerusalem, they’re not given to tell lies”. The cardinal was absolutely right. The Palestinian people are not liars and they deserve to be listened to. I raised the issue with the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), earlier this month, when he said: “We are not clear about the full facts of what happened.” —[ Official Report , 8 January 2024; Vol. 743, c. 46.] I wonder whether, two weeks on, the Government are now clear about the full facts. Those two women did not deserve to die.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dame Maria. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) for securing this important debate. The debate is wide-ranging, but I would like to focus on the situation in Palestine. Like my hon. Friend, I voted for a ceasefire in November last year, because my constituents asked me to. I shared their concerns, and I still do. In addition, hundreds of non-governmental organisations, the United Nations and the Pope all called for a ceasefire. On that note, something happened before Christmas to reinforce my view that a ceasefire was absolutely necessary: two Roman Catholic women, a mother and a daughter, were shot dead inside the Holy Family parish church in Gaza. The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem said: “They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish”.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) for securing the debate. I was unable to attend the Labour Opposition day debate on a similar theme, so I appreciate being able to raise my points here. School absences are a huge problem, and we all agree with that. In County Durham, there were well over 1,000 absences in the 2022-23 autumn and spring terms. That number has sharply risen since the 2016-17 autumn and spring terms, when there were under 250 absences in the county. The Labour party estimates that the number of absences will rise to well over 1,800 by the 2026-27 autumn and spring terms, which would be an increase of 377%—unless, of course, there is a change of policy or, better yet, a change of Government.”
“Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), could have solved that problem; they could have brought justice for those affected. Instead, there was inaction and indifference. What are the consequences? The people out there—the people who we are supposed to serve—are left all the worse off. I will not allow that to happen to my constituents.”
“My first question is this: why has a policy not been written up? In a letter that I sent to the Department for Education in October, I suggested an amendment to the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 to give the Secretary of State the powers to give dispensations where appropriate. Why not start with that? I cannot be more emphatic about this point: parents, teachers and pupils are extremely worried that pupils will not be achieve their dream of getting into the university of their choice because the Government have not offered to help them. When will the Government offer to help them? With the crisis in St Leonard’s school, we can see how other injustices, such as the situation with Royal Mail, have been able to run away with themselves in this place. Government Ministers, such as the right hon.”
“I want to focus on that because, for the weeks that pupils were not in school, they were unable to socialise or receive a face-to-education, and they were placed in a topsy-turvy arrangement of being taught remotely and then off site. Their education was severely disrupted and it still is—they are being taught in inadequate settings. I would wager that the disastrous impact of RAAC is not too dissimilar to the effect of chronic absences. Absences can severely affect a pupil’s future opportunities—just look at the situation at St Leonard’s—and the Department for Education has not offered any dispensations. In fact, Durham University said the following in a report released last week: “No policy has yet been devised to protect the results of the exam cohorts most affected. It is not clear why”.”
“It would be remiss of me not to mention St Leonard’s Catholic School in my constituency, and I am sure that Members will appreciate that my constituents, especially those affected at St Leonard’s, will want me to use all available opportunities to raise what their children are going through—after all, that is what they sent me here to do when they elected me in 2019. St Leonard’s was ordered to close just days before the autumn term began last year because of the presence of reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete. According to the Government’s own figures, pupils at St Leonard’s only moved back to full-face education learning at the end of November. Before that, they were in a mix of face-to-face and remote arrangements, and for almost two weeks in fully remote learning.”
“I absolutely agree. All children, whether they are in mainstream schooling or not, deserve to have the same importance placed on their education and their life chances. In Durham, we are blessed with incredible educators, and I must mention Mr Byers of Framwellgate School Durham, who publicly shared his recent letter to families highlighting the importance of good attendance. Mr Byers also encouraged families to reach out for support if they were struggling with their children. We must remember that support is key to ensuring that children achieve all that they are capable of, and I will miss Mr Byers’s supportive attitude when he sadly leaves Fram School in the near future.”
“We have had a number of meetings with Ministers. I had a meeting booked in last week with the Minister for Schools, the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), which he cancelled, and it was also cancelled today, so hopefully it will go ahead tomorrow. However, one of the big priorities for the school is that mitigation will be put in place for the education that has been lost. It is now 18 weeks that there have been issues and those pupils doing their exams have not yet had specialist equipment for any of their coursework, so I implore the Minister to impress that upon the Minister for Schools.”
“Gentleman, I was pleased to be part of a rare example of cross-party unity in The Northern Echo but, at the end of the day, what matters in this place is how we vote on policies. If an issue similar to that posed by the Health and Social Care Act 2022 arises in the future, I hope that the hon. Gentleman and Members who are about to contribute to the debate will put their constituents before their party Whips.”
“Although I welcome the Government’s announcement of an illicit vapes enforcement squad, we are now nine months on from that announcement, and unregulated and potentially dangerous products continue to fly off the shelves. All the while, the tobacco industry is making profits off the back of youth vaping rates. Cuts to trading standards have not helped, either. Trading standards workers in Durham are at full capacity, so when will they receive something from the £30 million that was announced in October to help them do their job? We need the Government to be bold. We need to stop rogue vape traders in their tracks, and we must ensure that the sale of illicit vape products does not deter smokers from switching to vaping. I welcome any Member’s raising the issue of the use and sale of illegal vapes. Like the hon.”
“If my amendments had been voted for, it is fair to argue that fewer people—particularly young people—would be addicted to nicotine, and that as a result the tenor of this debate would be different. “What ifs” aside, we need to see robust regulation and enforcement at local level. My constituency needs that, and I am shocked at the extent of illicit, non-compliant and even untraceable vaping products in my constituency. Over 6,000 illicit vapes were seized last year across County Durham, with three prosecutions linked to under-age sales and illicit vapes. I express my thanks to The Northern Echo for its investigation into that.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) for securing this afternoon’s debate. I am sure he knows that I have been discussing this issue and campaigning against the sale and use of illegal vapes throughout this Parliament, and I am sure he is aware that I tabled several amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill in 2021, when it was in Committee. I understand that the hon. Member was not a member of that Public Bill Committee, but he must share my frustration with his party on this issue. The Tory Whips instructed Conservative Members to vote down my amendments in 2021—amendments that were very similar to the proposals in the King’s Speech last November.”
“My constituents have told me they are no longer eligible to receive the warm home discount, which, along with Ofgem’s price increase, is making the cost of living even more severe in the City of Durham. Will the Minister meet me to discuss that? What, if any, discussions has he had with the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, the hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies) about the impact of fuel poverty on disabled people?”
“Only a handful of MPs have had the chance to scrutinise the Foreign Secretary since his appointment last year. In fact, news presenters have had more opportunities to scrutinise him than we have. Parliament is supposed to be sovereign, and we must be able to scrutinise major decisions, such as last week’s air strikes. What steps is the Prime Minister taking to ensure that we in this House can scrutinise the Foreign Secretary, and debate and vote on military action?”
“Why, then, are we not seriously considering making the polluter, the tobacco industry, pay to address the damage that its products are inflicting on our communities? The industry makes vast profits in Britain every year. Why is it not being made to pay, instead of the taxpayer? As the APPG report makes clear, a levy on the industry would raise the funding necessary to achieve a smoke-free future for all, not just the most advantaged. Ahead of the spring Budget, will the Minister commit to discussing the APPG’s proposal of a “polluter pays” levy on tobacco manufacturers? Would she discuss this with Ministers responsible for tobacco policy in His Majesty’s Treasury? As health inequalities worsen and lives remain at risk, the Government must make up for their lost time with bolder action. They must make the polluter pay.”
“We need a long-term and sustained commitment to protect our most vulnerable from the harms of tobacco smoke, including unborn babies. I hope the Minister can ensure that those schemes will be funded for at least the full five years needed. While the measures announced by the Government, which the APPG and Action on Smoking and Health have long called for, will have an important impact, they are not enough to achieve the Smokefree 2030 target of a maximum 5% smoking rate. We need further action. Of course, more action means more funding, which is where the APPG’s recommendation of a “polluter pays” levy on tobacco manufacturers comes in. As always, more money is needed if we are serious about a smoke-free future.”