Maria Eagle
MP for Liverpool Garston · Labour · United Kingdom
“There is concern about this news among my constituents who work at JLR Halewood and those who work in the supply chain in the whole of the north-west of England.”
“We must bear in mind not only the inequality of arms, but the length of time taken to get through the legal actions, even if they proceed swiftly and well.”
“That was not a legal action; it was about transparency, freedom of information and being open. I know that the right hon. Gentleman has his frustrations about the fact that his well-intentioned health reforms are not operating as he would have wished.”
“Before he leaves the Chamber, I say to the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt) that I agree very much with what he said about transparency and its importance. He made the point that lawyers are sometimes a problem. Obviously, the legal system, in which I used to be a participant, is adversarial.”
“Although such powers are not in this Bill, because it is too narrow in scope for them to be included, I hope that my new clause 1 on producing a report within 12 months of the passing of this Bill on how the Independent Public Advocate is working and the impact of the Act’s provisions on increasing public confidence—a public advocate with…”
“She was right in the end. She knew absolutely what had happened to her son, because she went and found out. She knew that the inquest verdicts were wrong, so she wanted to focus on that. But on the whole the families kept together and were able to decide how they would go forward.”
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“That is not something that industry has had in the past, which is something that it has always complained about, telling us, “We need a demand signal. We’re not going to invest until we know that you really want this long term.” I think we will have the kind of ecosystem and opportunities that small firms and large firms in the north-east, in the constituencies of my hon. Friends who are here today, will be able to take advantage of to grow and bring forth their agility, ideas, energy, and patriotism. As my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland said, many people in the north-east who work in the defence industry are very proud of doing so and really do want to support our country in its defence and security needs. They will be that much more motivated because there will be more opportunities.”
“Friends that the efforts we have put into supporting Ukraine show that we can do things faster, we can procure better, and we can ensure that we get capability into the hands of warfighters who desperately need it on a much faster timescale than we have done traditionally. The people who have done that are the same people in the MOD who have traditionally done the slower, more long-term, more stately work. It is just about risk appetite and about what we want them to do. With the strategic defence review publication coming up shortly, in due course, and with the defence industrial strategy also to be published—not at the same time, but not too far away from that—we ought to have an obvious and transparent framework, backed by resources that are guaranteed to be increasing into the future.”
“I therefore think the prospect is good for our small and innovative firms. When I go to trade fairs, go on constituency visits and do roundtables to find out what industry wants, I meet many of these small firms from around the country, including the north-east—I have met some on a couple of occasions in the north-east. Many of them say the same thing: “We need a way in. We need to know what you are doing, and what you want and when you want it. And we need to be able to engage faster and more effectively.” I hope that we will be able to do that. It is going to require wholesale reorganisation, and us to learn how to do things differently, but I will just say to this Chamber and to my hon.”
“Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland will recall that the Prime Minister announced the formation of an SME hub, which ought to enable small firms to plug into the available opportunities and help them to know where to get finance, which is a problem for small firms. We need a clearer idea of what the capabilities are to enable them to plug their ideas and their dual-use technology into the opportunities that are available. The establishment announced by the Chancellor of UK Defence Innovation, with a £400 million ringfenced budget this year, which has already started, means that there is more money available for dealing with innovative and novel technologies. The Chancellor also committed us to making sure that there is a ringfenced budget that will increase to 10% of our acquisitions budget.”
“One layer will be major programmes, on which we will aim to cut the time to contract from the current average of six years to three years. The second layer is developing new upgrades—a new radar for one of our platforms, for example. For that segment, we aim to get to contract within one year instead of within three. At the faster end—I will not say the smaller end—we aim to get to contract for novel and agile dual-use technology within three months. That will challenge the MOD, but we are determined to do things better and make sure that our spending gets better value and better capability faster into the hands of our warfighters. Many companies in the north-east will be able to benefit from this. My hon.”
“The system excludes small firms and they end up, at best, in the supply chains of the primes, which is fine as far as it goes, but does not enable them to show us what they can do in terms of agility and innovation. My hon. Friends will recall the Chancellor’s announcement in her spring statement that we are going to reform defence procurement. Part of that reform will be to speed up getting to contract. The average time to contract is six years, which is ridiculous in the current situation. Procuring a nuclear submarine might take a bit longer than procuring the latest drone, so we are going to segment our procurement arrangements to recognise the fact that not every contract is the same. We will do this in three layers.”
“Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland spoke about the need for us to do procurement better and reform it. He mentioned some very good small firms, including Tees Components, which I know to a degree. It is a family firm in a small community that does wondrous things. There is enormous potential in north-east communities for innovation and dual-use technologies, but the way we do procurement now positively excludes small companies from being able to participate, partly because it takes us so long to do it and partly because of the requirements on the firms to prove all kinds of things and produce all kinds of documentation that they do not normally have the staff to produce. BAE Systems might, but a small family firm does not.”
“We are conducting the strategic defence review to assess fully the threats we face and to determine what capabilities we need to meet them. It is also why we brought forward an increase in defence spending to 2.5% of GDP from April 2027, with plans to raise it to 3% in the next Parliament; and it is why we are working hard on defence reform and the new defence industrial strategy. We cannot continue to spend money in the MOD as we spent in the past. We have to get better value. There is no point in increasing spending if we pour some of it down the drain. We have to do things better, and that is what defence reform is about. The defence industrial strategy is in part about how we can transform procurement to unlock the potential of suppliers across the country. My hon.”
“I have managed to visit some, but not all of the constituencies represented here today. I know that people will now ask me to go to the other ones, and we will have to bear that in mind as time goes on. As we heard today, defence makes a considerable contribution to the north-east in terms of jobs, investment and growth, but my hon. Friends have also made clear that a huge contribution could be made beyond what has already been done. The nation as a whole needs us to boost our defence industries, and this Government are determined to do that. It is clear that the world is becoming much more dangerous and Britain is facing rising threats. At the same time, the Government face the challenge of rebuilding and reinvigorating our armed forces to meet those threats better, after a decade and a half of underfunding and hollowing out.”
“It is great to be here under your chairmanship, Mrs Hobhouse. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) on securing the debate and shedding light on the vital defence industry in the north-east, and particularly his part of the region. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Stockton North (Chris McDonald), for North Durham (Luke Akehurst), for Hartlepool (Mr Brash), for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor (Alan Strickland), for Darlington (Lola McEvoy), and for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for accompanying him to show the great strength of will among elected representatives in the north-east to boost and push the development of their defence industries. I congratulate them all on the contributions they made.”
“The Defence Secretary raised this issue at the meeting of all NATO Defence Ministers in February and has held a number of discussions with NATO allies since, including with the US Secretary of Defence and in meetings with joint expeditionary force and E5 allies. European allies are stepping up within NATO, and the UK is leading efforts to increase defence spending and expand defence industrial capacity.”
“I have met a number of my equivalents bilaterally, but it is important to say that we welcome the ReArm initiative and that it is in all our interests for SAFE to allow member states to partner with the UK. We will continue to emphasise the need for EU defence financing and wider defence industrial initiatives to include third countries like the UK. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in answer to an earlier question, we want to conclude a UK-EU defence and security pact that will give us access to that scheme.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question. As I hope hon. Members from around the House are starting to realise, if I am asked for a meeting my general answer is yes. I am very happy to meet him.”
“SMEs can help us make defence an engine for growth in all our nations and regions. I want far more involvement from SMEs in our procurement, providing agility, innovation and resilience as we seek to ramp up our industrial production. That is why the Prime Minister recently launched a new defence SME support hub, and committed us to publishing a new target for MOD spend with SMEs.”
“A fair shot—I commend my hon. Friend on her puns. Accuracy International has made a great contribution to UK defence and exports. I have been talking to defence firms, many of which are SMEs, during the defence industrial strategy consultation. I hope that the changes that we will make to speed up procurement and provide more access to opportunities will transform their chances of doing business with us, while making defence an engine for growth across all our nations and regions.”
“I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are tearing up the way in which procurement works before the national armaments director moves into his place. It is one of the biggest jobs in government, which needs the right salary to attract the right person. I am clear that we will do things differently. The national armaments director will be held accountable for ensuring that we do so.”
“As the hon. Gentleman will probably know, Type 31s are being built at Rosyth and Type 26s are being built at Govan. We have got a programme for eight at Govan, and five so far at Rosyth—that is the current number.”
“I commend my hon. Friend for asking that question. He will know that the strategic defence review is considering our current mix of fourth and fifth-generation aircraft. He will also know that, in addition to the Typhoon, 15% of the F-35s as well as 37% of the Typhoons are made in Lancashire, so there is work aplenty in Lancashire, no matter which aeroplane is bought.”
“I very much agree with my hon. Friend. Of course, there are skills shortages across much of manufacturing, not only in defence, so there is certainly going to be an issue. I can tell him that the apprentices I have met in the defence industry tend to smile the whole time. They are getting extremely good training for lifelong excellent jobs, so I am absolutely certain that we can get that across to young people and ensure that defence gets its fair share of the skilled people that we need.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right to say that Hawk is due to be out of service in the early 2030s. We are taking steps to consider what the alternatives might be, and we of will course consider any UK options that exist. I cannot tell him what the answer to that is yet, but it is under active consideration.”
“I cannot give the hon. Gentleman an answer right now, but I am certainly happy to look into it and meet him, if he wants a meeting, or write to him.”
“Yesterday, the Defence Secretary announced that we will provide an additional £150 million of new firepower, including drones, tanks and air-to-air missiles. Ukraine’s security matters to global security. That is why the vital Ukraine Defence Contact Group coalition of 50 nations and partners stretches from the Indo-Pacific to South America. This war was never about the fate of just one nation. When the border of one country is redrawn by force, it undermines the security of all nations. The US is serious about stability in the Indo-Pacific, as are we. That is why the Prime Minister announced that the carrier strike group will go there next year. If aggression goes unchecked on one continent, it emboldens regimes on another, so on stepping up for Ukraine, we are, and we will. On stepping up for European security, we are, and we will.”
“The majority of that came from European nations, while non-US NATO allies boosted wider defence spending by 20% in just the last year, so Europe is stepping up. Finally, we saw a clear commitment to ratcheting up the pressure on Putin, using both military and economic tools. We all agree that 2025 will be the critical year for Ukraine. At this crucial moment, we will not step back, but step up our support for Ukraine. President Trump and President Zelensky have both spoken of their desire to achieve “peace through strength”. The commitments made yesterday provide the collective strength that we need to achieve peace. For our part, the UK will spend £4.5 billion on military support for Ukraine this year, which is more than ever before. We have now provided more than 500,000 artillery shells, worth over £1.5 billion.”
“Yesterday, at the Ukraine Defence Contact Group, chaired by the Defence Secretary, we saw almost 50 nations and partners standing together. Ukraine is backed by the members of the group, and by billions of dollars-worth of arms and ammunition that have been committed to keep its warfighters equipped. That will increase pressure on Putin, help force him to the table, and bring a sustainable peace closer. We were pleased that Secretary Hegseth confirmed the US’s continued commitment to the group, to Ukraine’s pursuit of what he called “a durable peace”, and to the importance of security guarantees. We heard his call for European nations to step up; we are, and we will. NATO allies pledged €40 billion in 2024, and went on to provide €50 billion.”
“I welcome the fact that, in the main, there is still consensus across this House on supporting Ukraine. That has been a tremendously important part of the support that we have given over the last three years, and before, to the Ukrainians. The hon. Gentleman said that there should be no negotiation about Ukraine without Ukraine; my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary made that clear in his remarks yesterday. NATO’s job is to put Ukraine in the strongest possible position for any talks, but there can be no negotiation about Ukraine without Ukraine’s involvement. We want to see a durable peace and no return to conflict and aggression. That is the only way in which this war can end, with the kind of security that President Trump and Secretary Hegseth have referred to.”
“My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have always said that this has to be a just peace, and that those who have committed war crimes during the invasion of Ukraine need to be pursued for them.”
“I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says about being betrayed by our allies. The US Defence Secretary has made it clear that he that he wants a durable peace. That is what he and the President are proceeding to try to obtain, so I do not accept that point. In terms of our own forces, we are seeking to ensure that recruitment, which has failed to meet targets over the last number of years, is improved, so that the numbers in our armed forces are up to full strength.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend. It is clear that any such negotiations must involve Ukraine, and that the Ukrainians must be happy with the peace that is negotiated. Our role at present, while fierce fighting is still going on, is to put them in the strongest position that we can, in order to enable them properly to negotiate.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks. Of course, when he played a part in these matters he was in office, so he is very knowledgeable about them. I can confirm that we aim to put Ukraine in the strongest possible position to enable it to negotiate. That involves continuing to supply the Ukrainians with the arms and weapons that they need in order to fight, because the fighting is still fierce. We need to step up and ensure that we do that. Certainly over the last period, the EU and European nations that are involved in the coalition to support Ukraine have given the majority of military aid and support. As the Secretary-General of NATO confirmed yesterday, 58% of the support that Ukraine received last year was from European nations, so European nations are stepping up. We must continue to do so.”
“My hon. Friend is correct. As I said in my initial response to the urgent question, it is important that we deter that kind of behaviour wherever it is seen around the world.”
“My hon. Friend is correct. We are doing that, but we must continue to step up our capacity to support Ukraine with weapons and the force that it needs to deter ongoing aggression, and to ensure that it is in the strongest possible position in any negotiations that it decides to enter.”
“No matter which side of the Chamber he is sitting on, the right hon. Gentleman has a long history of supporting deterrence—whether nuclear or short of that threshold—and he makes the same point again. The US Secretary of Defence made it clear in his remarks to the contact group that deterrence is important around the world, so I think there is agreement there.”
“It does both. There is only one way in which we can provide the Ukrainians with increasing amounts of munitions and drones, which are developing and changing rapidly, and that is by boosting the strength of our defence industries. That has the additional importance of enabling us to boost our capacity to deter any potential aggression, so in that sense we can do both, and we are doing so.”
“I assure the right hon. Gentleman that the strategic defence review is about identifying threats that we face now, rather than threats we perhaps faced before the Ukraine war began, so I can tell him that the review is being conducted with that in mind. On the deterrence that we need to be able to provide and the money we need to spend to provide it, the commitment is as it has been: as the Prime Minister has said, he will set out a path to 2.5% once the strategic defence review has been published, and we expect that to be in the spring.”
“I very much agree with my hon. Friend. I have had the pleasure of visiting her constituency on several occasions, and when it was her predecessor’s constituency as well, so I am well aware of the strength of its defence industrial base. We need to strengthen that base across our nations and regions, and we are doing that. That has the additional importance of providing deterrence for our nation as well as supporting Ukraine.”
“I agree—we all agree—with the hon. Gentleman that defence spending needs to increase. That must be done in the context of us setting out in the SDR precisely where we see the threats. It is important to spend money correctly and in the best possible way, and I do not think that there is any real disagreement across the Chamber about that. We will see in due course whether those challenges are met when the strategic defence review is published and we set out the path to 2.5%—”
“I have not, but I know my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been having discussions and, indeed, our discussions are ongoing and frequent. I have had contact with my counterpart in Ukraine, just not since yesterday.”
“The US Secretary of Defence made it clear yesterday that any peace negotiations that the Americans are involved in need to lead to a durable peace that does not see a resumption of the aggression that has led to this war, and we support that. We have also made it quite clear that these negotiations must involve Ukraine—of course they must. That is the way in which this war will finally end.”
“We have always said that Ukraine’s rightful place is in NATO, and our position is that Ukraine is on an irreversible path to NATO membership. However, we have also always been clear that the process will take time. I have already said quite clearly that the fate of Ukraine in these negotiations cannot be determined without Ukraine being fully involved, and that is our priority. At the moment, warfighting is still happening to put Ukraine in the strongest possible position to negotiate from strength.”
“The right hon. Gentleman is correct that there must be security guarantees, and the US Defence Secretary said as much. These are all matters for any negotiations that take place. Of course, we will be supporting Ukraine, and we have made it quite clear that there cannot be a peace that does not involve Ukraine or that it does not support.”
“We have said that Ukraine must be involved in those negotiations, and that peace negotiations need two sides to come an agreement. It therefore clearly follows that the Ukrainians must be content with whatever the process comes up with. There must be security guarantees, and the peace must be durable—everybody agrees with that.”
“We have made quite clear with our 100-year partnership with Ukraine that we back it in the long term. We have provided Ukraine with support from many parties across this Chamber over a number of years to ensure that it can continue its fight, and we will continue to support Ukraine during any negotiations that take place so that it can get the peace that it wishes to have.”
“I think everybody agrees that any peace that is negotiated must be durable. That will require security guarantees, given the past experience that the Ukrainians have of Russia and Russian aggression.”
“The right hon. Gentleman will know very well that there are sanctions, which we do our best to police, and they have had some impact. I think they have to continue both while the war is still ongoing and while the peace is being considered and negotiated.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend that we need to continue to support Ukraine to put it in the strongest possible position both while it is fighting the war and during any negotiations that take place.”
“The right hon. Gentleman is correct that conflicts such as this need to come to an end as soon as possible, so I acknowledge the point he makes about the death on all sides and how bad that is. However, I think it is important for any peace that may be negotiated to be durable and lasting, so we need to focus our minds at present on supporting Ukraine as much as we can so that it goes into any such negotiations in the strongest possible position.”
“The hon. Member is right that security guarantees are likely to be an important part of any peace agreement given the past history. We have a 100-year partnership with Ukraine, and we are committed to ensuring that it can defend its sovereign capability to continue to exist. While it is too early to talk about any details of what those security guarantees may be, we are committed to making sure that Ukraine can continue as an independent state.”
“I agree very much with the hon. Lady when she says that our Ukrainian friends here in this nation have received a lot of support—not only in her constituency, but across the UK—from their friends and neighbours, and that that will continue. We have a 100-year partnership with Ukraine. We have supported the Ukrainians through the toughest times of this war with arms and other necessary support, and we will continue to do so.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right to raise these concerns. It is clear that any peace that is negotiated, which must have the consent of the Ukrainians themselves, has to be durable, and to the extent that that requires security guarantees, those have to be present for it to work.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right that we need to prepare. The strategic defence review will set out the threats that we face and we will then turn our attention to making sure we obtain the capabilities to deal with them. Obviously we will look at any weaknesses there might be and try to shore them up.”