Dr Neil Hudson
MP for Epping Forest · Conservative · United Kingdom
“263.] On the issue of energy, which is pertinent, given that incinerators provide around 3% of the UK’s total energy generation, much of Britain’s total energy needs are still met by oil and gas. Both the Government and the Climate Change Committee have admitted that we will still need oil and gas for decades to come.”
“Studies suggest that environmental contamination can bring “heightened stress and anxiety to the point of dread”. The UK Health Security Agency found that “it is not possible to rule out adverse health effects from MWI completely”, which will offer little reassurance to constituents living near one.”
“Member for Ely and East Cambridgeshire (Charlotte Cane) also discussed the fire issue. The hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton North (Mrs Blundell) discussed odour and wellbeing issues. The hon.”
“I am very proud of the previous Conservative Government’s record on this issue. We introduced the 2018 resources and waste strategy, the 2023 waste prevention programme and a statutory target to halve residual waste per person by 2042.”
“Sites that are managed poorly and left to get out of hand by the authorities can lead to a vicious cycle where unscrupulous operators move in, fly-tipping is exacerbated and local communities and the environment are negatively impacted. The Countryside Alliance’s recent report on waste crime is useful here.”
“It is always a huge pleasure to be intervened on by the hon. Gentleman. He has been very kind to me over the years. After my maiden speech, he came across the Chamber to speak to me and was very kind, so I will always take an intervention from him, as I am sure everyone else will. I totally agree.”
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“Additionally, our introduction of the single-use plastic bag charge in 2015 led to a remarkable drop in plastic bag usage, significantly reducing plastic waste. I am pleased to see that the Labour Government have drawn on our previous consultations to shape this statutory instrument. In 2021, the Conservative Government conducted an initial consultation on consistency in household and business recycling, followed by an additional targeted consultation in 2023 that focused on exemptions to allow co-collection of recyclable waste streams. The process engaged English waste collection and disposal authorities, the Environment Agency and key stakeholders across the waste sector. These regulations, set to take effect at the end of March this year, introduce mandatory waste separation for businesses and non-domestic premises.”
“It is a great privilege to serve under your chairship, Mrs Furniss, and to be sitting opposite the Minister again, as I have done on various issues. I thank her for bringing these important regulations to the Committee. The principle of improving our recycling is one that I wholeheartedly support. I believe the Conservatives have a strong track record in this area; I thank the Minister for graciously acknowledging the importance of our landmark Environment Act 2021. Between 2010 and 2022, we reduced the amount of waste going to landfill by about 47% and cut the amount of biodegradable waste going to landfill by 46%. We also introduced a simpler recycling collection system to make it easier to recycle, saving people time and stopping confusion, to boost recycling rates.”
“It has been interesting listening to the statement on growing the UK economy, when everything the Labour Government have done so far is having the exact reverse effect. In Epping Forest, businesses and vital services are talking about job losses and a freeze in recruitment due to the jobs tax, while across the country, family farms and businesses are worried about their futures, with the Government’s heartless inheritance tax policies, children are having to move school and some independent schools are having to close due to the punitive school fees policy. When will this Government admit they have got things wrong and, for the sake of opportunity and growth, reverse their ill-judged policies?”
“I also thank the former MP for Ludlow and former Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee Philip Dunne for his assiduous efforts to see the fund introduced.”
“As a result of that dialogue, the Bill now includes welcome improvements in several areas, such as company requirements to produce implementation reports to outline how they envision their commitments on improving water quality happening, as well as consideration of nature-based solutions in licensing activities. However, in that same constructive spirit, the Opposition today ask the Government to go even further. We want the Government to back our new clause 16 mandating the water restoration fund, which had cross-party support in Committee. I thank the good folk of the Conservative Environment Network and Wildlife and Countryside Link for their support and campaigning on the new clause, as well as the Angling Trust for its discussions.”
“However, we are under no illusions: there is always more that can be done, and we have always said that we will seek to work constructively to make the Bill as effective as possible. In that spirit, I thank the Minister for her willingness to discuss matters of the Bill with me and with colleagues across the House; the Minister in the other place, Baroness Hayman, showed an equal willingness to listen to suggestions from colleagues. I also thank members of the Bill Committee for their constructive approach and all the Bill team, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and parliamentary staff supporting this legislation and our scrutiny of it.”
“I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this vital issue of water quality once again. As His Majesty’s most loyal Opposition have maintained through the passage of the Bill, it is just an attempt to copy and paste some of the work done by the previous Conservative Government and the measures taken to identify the problem. We will not shy away from the fact that the Conservative Government were the first to identify the scale of the sewage problem and actually to start to address it. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) just said, when Labour left office in 2010, only 7% of storm overflows were monitored. When we Conservatives left office last year, 100% were monitored and our landmark Environment Act 2021 paved the way to improving the quality of our precious waters.”
“I totally agree with my right hon. Friend. It is right that if water companies do the wrong thing, the money levied from them is ploughed back into improving the water and not back into Treasury coffers. The water restoration fund, since being introduced by the previous Conservative Government, provided £11 million for communities to repair their local waterways and restore them to the quality they should be.”
“We will be looking very closely at some of the amendments from the Liberal Democrats. New clause 2, which they tabled in Committee, would abolish Ofwat. At that stage, we pointed out that the new clause was not explicit about what it would transition to, so we do not believe that is a sensible way forward. New clause 18 would grant the Government a power to create a unified scheme of charging arrangements for customers in need of support regardless of the specific supplier, and introduce a consultation for that purpose. Although the Opposition welcome looking at that, can the Government please ensure that others consumers do not face rising bills as a result? It will be interesting to see what the Government do with that.”
“We believe this is a fair and reasonable compromise that the Government should accept, so that we can work to improve the water industry’s financial practices. We have also tabled new clause 17, which would amend the Water Industry Act 1991 to insert new rules regarding limits on the amount of money that can be borrowed by a water company. Regrettably, the Government rejected this sensible measure in Committee, so we have tabled it again to ensure that water companies do not excessively borrow money, which is ultimately bad for bill payers. When we talk about financial resilience, the heart of the issue is concern about borrowing, and the resultant over-leveraging in the industry. We will be pushing that new clause to a Division. We will also be supporting the measures on nature recovery that we tabled in Committee.”
“We have all been starkly aware of concerns surrounding the financial resilience of Thames Water, and as many will know, Ofwat’s “Monitoring financial resilience” report in November identified 10 companies that needed an increased level of monitoring and/or engagement concerning financial resilience. We acknowledge that the Government believe that they expect to use special administration orders as a last resort and in limited circumstances. However, it is the Opposition’s firm belief that an injustice remains, with people having to pay for companies that they have no connection to. We have therefore tabled amendments 26 and 27, which would explicitly forbid the raising of prices for consumers who do not use the services of the water company that is in special administration.”
“If water companies require the Government to place them in special administration through their own failure, why should consumers foot the bill for failures they have had no influence on or responsibility for? That is particularly the case if a customer’s bills will rise as a result of mismanagement by a company whose services they do not even rely on. This proposal runs contrary to the nature of all the action taken in recent years to improve water quality, whereby companies that are responsible for failing to get their affairs in order must take responsibility.”
“The Government have previously rejected the proposal, but we urge them to think again about this simple yet effective amendment that would do so much to underpin all the work that is being done and protect bill payers. I turn to some of our further amendments. Our concerns about the water industry and finances extend to what is in the Bill as it stands—in particular, the provisions for special administration orders in clauses 12 and 13, which the Opposition have raised in the other place and in Committee. Those clauses would give the Government the power to recover any losses they make through placing a company in special administration by raising consumer bills. My Conservative colleagues in the other place sounded the alarm on this issue, and I put on record again my thanks to them for doing so.”
“As such, the Opposition have tabled new clause 19, which would require the DEFRA Secretary of State to provide that where a water company has faced financial penalties for failure to comply with the law, a financial amount equal to those penalties must be removed from the bills of that water company’s consumers. This is very important, as a toxic cocktail of poor behaviour by water companies and rising bill prices has led to many people feeling that they are receiving poor value for money and not getting the quality water services that they deserve. A concomitant reduction in customer bills that people will see directly on their statements will be a real and tangible sign that poor behaviour is not going unchecked.”
“Given that England is home to 80% of the world’s chalk streams, a failure to act on this issue neglects a vital duty to protect a key part of our environment. In light of this, we believe that the Government need to think again about rejecting our important amendment, which is a matter of principle, a matter of justice in righting wrongs, and a fundamental commitment to water quality. When it comes to improving our waters, it is supporting those who are most affected when water companies fail to abide by their duties that are at the heart of the Opposition’s concerns —the British public, as individual consumers, bill payers and members of local communities. Customers must not pay the price for water companies’ failure to do their duties, whether financial, environmental or otherwise.”
“Fines are much more uncertain and provide less of a guarantee regarding the amount of money they will bring in. To rely on those funds for day-to-day Treasury spending does not make sense. Ringfencing those penalties for our water restoration fund is a sensible measure that enables Governments to guarantee they can meet a specific need. Water companies pay the fines for the damage they have done, and the local communities affected are empowered to have their local waterways restored. It is worth repeating the finer detail of our amendment; it should not go ignored that this will also improve chalk streams. It was incredibly disappointing that over Christmas, the Government revealed that they had abandoned plans by the Conservatives to recover our chalk streams.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I will come on to an amendment we have also tabled to ensure that if fines are levied on water companies, customers’ bills go down accordingly, so that taxpayers and bill payers are not penalised for water companies doing the wrong thing. The Government have made ejections in this House and in the other place to the principle of ringfencing the funding and have stated the need for the Treasury to have flexibility on how it spends that money, but in this specific case, their argument still does not stack up. Where money comes from taxation, ringfencing is not always the most reliable way to ensure that the Treasury can have the spending power it needs to deliver that spending, but here we are talking about something very different.”
“It has been a wide-ranging debate, although shorter than we had hoped for. I thank Members for participating today. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Joy Morrissey) for her passion for enhancing the accountability of water companies and protecting watersports, which we are all passionate about, and my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater (Sir Ashley Fox) for passionately advocating for the water restoration fund. New clause 16 would establish the water restoration fund, to ringfence money from fines to restore local waterways, not to balance the Treasury’s books. This was a Conservative fund, and the Labour Government must not let ideology stand in the way of evidence-based policymaking. They must take the baton forward and ringfence this money, so that waterways can be restored locally.”
“No, I have no time. New clause 19 is designed to ensure that fines on water companies result in equivalent reductions in customers’ bills. That is only fair, and we urge the Government to take forward the new clause. New clause 17 seeks to strengthen the financial resilience of water companies by enabling the Secretary of State to stipulate the limits of borrowing, so that these companies do not leverage too much debt. That is an important new clause that needs to go forward. Through amendments 26 and 27, we want to protect customers in different parts of the country so that they do not have to pay for the misdemeanours of water companies that do not serve them. We urge the Government to take forward our amendments and make this Bill stronger, so that we can improve our precious waterways.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I suspect that the Government do not agree with our water restoration fund, but if the Cunliffe review says that the water restoration fund should be reinstated, will the Minister commit to doing so?”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. The listed places of worship grant scheme is vital for our communities. The previous Conservative Government extended it in 2023, and since 2022 five grants have been awarded in my constituency. I have been contacted by a number of places of worship that are deeply concerned about the future of the scheme. Does my hon. Friend agree that, for the sake of worship, outreach, youth work, helping vulnerable people, and community hubs, it is right for the Government to extend the scheme?”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing forward this important piece of legislation. She talks about how the uncontrolled use of fireworks is very distressing, and causes distress and injury to people. As a veterinary surgeon, I have seen at first hand the impact on animals both large and small: cowering pets, pets that go missing, and farm animal livestock or horses that bolt and cause themselves horrific injuries. Does she agree that we need more regulation and control, so that people can protect themselves and animals?”
“I congratulate my right hon. Friend and fellow Essex MP on securing this important debate. His constituency, like mine, has precious green belt that is so important to the environment, biodiversity and our physical and mental health. I acknowledge the need for housing, but does he share my concerns about this Labour Government’s central top-down targets being imposed on communities against their wishes and, equally, their plans to reclassify some of the green belt as grey belt, thereby putting our precious green belt under immense pressure and danger?”
“There is an element of challenge that could be put in. I understand the sentiment, but the devil is in the detail of the wording as to how this could actually work.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving way, and I have a lot of respect for the new clauses that he has tabled to put pressure on water companies to provide more information at critical stages. The Opposition have tabled amendments requiring water companies to publish data on their websites to enable citizen science, so I respect what he is saying. I guess some of the issue is in the detail of the wording of the new clause. I am sure we are all in agreement about water companies providing information, but proposed new section 37(1A) says that we want them to be “full and accurate” and “honest”. I guess the devil is in the detail. How will that be judged? If this new clause were to come into play, how will people judge that? Is an “honest assessment” whether something is not false, or whether something is complete or incomplete?”
“We have had some interesting discussions, and it would be remiss of me not to talk about teeth. We have had dental analogies aplenty: we are wanting to give more teeth to the various regulators. Finally, I think I did detect—we will have to check Hansard —the Minister using the word “Ofwet”. When this matter goes to the commission, “Ofwet” might be an interesting term for a new body that might be set up, but I will leave that with the Minister.”
“There is some disagreement about how best we do that, but this Committee has shown the House that, actually, there is a lot of agreement about the scale of the problem and the fact that we need to address it. I respectfully say that I am disappointed with the comments from the third-party spokesperson, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale, about the Bill Committee stage being a charade. I do not think that line-by-line scrutiny of Bills is a charade. Yes, there is a process as to how Committees are populated, but that is democracy. I would have thought that that particular party, given its title, would respect election results. That is how democracy works. We have seen that they have had some disagreement among themselves about some of their votes as well, but I will leave that point there.”
“I do not think I have missed anyone in the room except the public. This gives me the chance to thank the members of the public who have come in and watched our proceedings, as well as people who have watched online from afar. There are also, as the Minister said, the stakeholders: the environmental groups, the volunteers and the experts who have fed into this Bill and the water debate that we are having and who are helping legislators across the House to improve and refine legislation. We thank the public very much as well. We have had a very interesting few days. It has shown us that there is a lot of cross-party consensus on what we are trying to do to improve our water quality.”
“It is a great pleasure to again serve under your chairship today, Dr Huq. May I first, on behalf of the Opposition and, I hope, colleagues from across the Committee, give a vote of thanks to everyone involved in this process? I have a list here, and please shout out if I miss anyone out. First, I thank the Chairs—Dr Huq and Mr Vickers—for guiding us through the process. I thank all the Bill Committee staff—the Clerks and officials—for their assiduous, thorough work, which keeps us on message as Members of Parliament scrutinising this legislation. We thank them for that. Dr Huq, thank you—I will use the word “you” for you. I thank the DEFRA officials for all their hard work on this and for engaging with the Opposition as well. I very much appreciate the Minister allowing the officials to do that. I thank the Doorkeepers and Hansard .”
“What is the current policy and status in terms of vaccine development and deployment? In addition, will the Minister clarify what steps are being taken to co-ordinate the changes with Welsh authorities? We know they are introducing changes, but we must make sure that we have a consistent approach across the UK. We strongly support these crucial measures and I am grateful that the regulations have been brought to the Committee today.”
“Vets, officials and scientists are working hard on the situation, as they are working on many different disease situations. Avian influenza is with us, bluetongue is still bubbling away, and we now have the real concern of foot and mouth disease having been confirmed in our near neighbour Germany. As a veterinary surgeon, I am all too aware of the devastating impacts that animal disease outbreaks can have. Avian influenza outbreaks obviously affect not only reared domestic birds but wild birds, but there are also significant human impacts, not least on the mental health of those in the frontline. Given the ongoing avian influenza situation, will the Minister outline the additional measures the Government are taking on avian influenza to preserve our nation’s biosecurity?”
“The changes are made in the knowledge that once the restrictions are lifted, the birds will be back out and free-range. Furthermore, they will ensure that English free-range producers maintain parity with the EU, where the 16-week time limit was removed from egg marketing standards legislation in 2023, as the Minister articulated. This will create a level playing field for our producers and reduce the likelihood of English free-range eggs being substituted with imported eggs. Although we support the statutory instrument, I do have some questions for the Minister. Before I ask them, I put on the record my thoughts and sympathy for farmers and bird keepers who have been affected by avian influenza outbreaks. The virus is still with us and there are still outbreaks. I also pay tribute to everyone at the Animal and Plant Health Agency.”
“Consequently, producers adhering to these essential measures have been penalised through the loss of their free-range status. In the previous Parliament I served on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, and we looked into this issue extremely closely and fed our work in to the Government. I am pleased that the previous Government responded positively, and that the new Government have picked up the baton. The changes in the statutory instrument will remove the 16-week derogation period, thereby protecting producers who are doing the right thing by responsibly housing their birds under the chief veterinary officer’s instructions during the imposition of avian influenza controls. I should declare an interest: I am a veterinary surgeon so I have a strong personal and professional interest in this subject.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris. I thank the Minister for bringing the draft regulations to the Committee. I am pleased to say that we, His Majesty’s most loyal Opposition, are supportive of the statutory instrument and offer no objections. The initial consultation conducted by the previous Conservative Government in January 2024 demonstrated strong support for the proposals, leading to this statutory instrument. Current marketing standards allow hens to be housed for 16 weeks before their eggs are required to be re-labelled as barn eggs. Recent avian influenza outbreaks have once again necessitated the introduction of mandatory housing measures for free-range poultry in certain areas, which can sometimes exceed the 16-week limit.”
“(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will make a statement on the Government’s emergency contingency response to the recent confirmation of foot and mouth disease in Germany?”
“I urge the Government from the bottom of my heart to fully fund that redevelopment, to make sure that the burning pyres of slaughtered animals, as well as the economic and mental health devastation of foot and mouth disease, remain resolutely confined to the history books.”
“What advice is there about movements of people and vehicles from the area in terms of fomite transmission of the virus? And, heaven forbid, if foot and mouth ever enters the United Kingdom, what is the situation regarding vaccine supply and potential deployment? Finally, I pay tribute to the chief vets and the veterinary and animal officers and scientists and officials at the Animal and Plant Health Agency, who do so much to keep our country biosecure. This foot and mouth disease wake-up call is yet more evidence that the Government must now commit to fully fund the redevelopment of the APHA HQ in Weybridge.”
“In 2001, the foot and mouth outbreak resulted in more than 6 million animals being culled and cost £12.8 billion in today’s prices. It devastated the farming community, and farmers want reassurance that action is been taken to protect our borders, their livestock and their livelihoods. The mental health impacts of foot and mouth cannot be overstated. Can the Minister reassure us that the announced movement restrictions are fully in place for animals and products coming to the UK from the affected area? Will the Government think about extending the ban to personal imports of meat and milk products unless accompanied by veterinary documentation? Can the Minister update us on the work tracing possible movements of products from Germany?”
“Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker. I declare a strong personal and professional interest. As a veterinary surgeon I supervised some of the animal culls in the 2001 outbreak, witnessing sights I never want to see again. The confirmation on 10 January of foot and mouth disease in Germany, with subsequent slaughter and movement restrictions, is sending shockwaves around Europe and the UK. We have requested this urgent question as no statement was provided to the House on Monday or Tuesday. The shadow DEFRA Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), is unable to be with us today as she is at the LAMMA show in Birmingham speaking to agricultural manufacturers and farmers.”
“In other words, what has been addressed in the past is not just regulation, but the whole pathway of the enforcement of regulations, so that regulations are not merely blunt instruments but active ones that water companies can expect to have to deal with if they do not act responsibly to their customers, the environment and the wider public. On that last point, will the Minister clarify and ensure that these offences are and will be enforced and commit to making further amendments to the law, not only regarding the offences themselves, but also on their enforcement, if the Government believe that things need to be tightened up moving forward? Aside from those clarifications, we have no formal objections to the clause.”
“It is a privilege to serve under your chairship today, Dr Huq. We have no formal objection to clause 7, which imposes a duty on environmental regulators to impose penalties for offences by water company that the clause specifies. Offences have of course increased, and water bosses have been banned from receiving bonuses if a company has committed serious criminal breaches. Regulators have more powers than they used to in being able to impose larger fines for polluters without needing to go to court. The clause focuses on exactly the same principle and we therefore have no formal objections. I raised in an earlier Bill Committee sitting—this is relevant here—that there has been an increase in the number of inspections that water companies can expect, from 4,000 a year by April this year to 10,000 a year by April of next year.”
“Clause 8 seeks to grant the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers additional powers to impose conditions or general rules on water industry licences relating to abstraction and impoundment activity. His Majesty’s loyal Opposition do not have any formal objections to the clause, but I would suggest that it reinforces some of my comments on clause 6 about the need to make the Government have the powers they need to regulate as necessary a more consistent principle across the Bill.”
“I would be grateful if the Minister provided clarification on some of those questions. However, his Majesty’s loyal Opposition have no formal objections to clause 9.”
“It states that Ofwat’s duty to have regard to the Secretary of State’s duty to meet environmental targets applies “where the Authority considers that exercise or performance to be relevant to the making of such a contribution.” Will the Minister assure the Committee that she and the Government will work with Ofwat so that it has clear guidance on when these environmental targets would be relevant, so that there are no grey areas in Ofwat’s work as it looks to enforce those targets? Can she assure the Committee that the Government will also work with Ofwat to ensure that with regard to its powers and duties in the spirit of clause 9, consumers are protected should there be any subsequent financial costs to water companies, so that we get both environmental protection and the value for money that the tax-paying consumer deserves?”
“Clause 9 would introduce a new requirement for Ofwat to consider, as part of its regulatory decision making and the exercise of its powers and duties as given by the Water Industry Act 1991, the section 1 duty confirmed the Climate Change Act and section 5 of the Environment Act 2021. We have no formal objections to raise to that basic principle and no amendments that we wish to make to clause 9. Can the Minister provide some clarity on the line that amendment 27 from the Liberal Democrats seeks to remove from the Bill?”
“While we all share the desire that water companies that do the wrong thing must pay to put it right, we must ensure that, when we punish those water companies, we do not hurt the end consumer, who very much deserves to be protected. I would be grateful for the Minister’s thoughts on this, but again, we have no formal, explicit objections to the clause.”
“Consumers have already been informed by Ofwat that they should expect to see bills rise—the complete opposite of what the Government had said they intended to deliver. Therefore, do the Government feel confident that they can avoid contributing to the problem of a rising trajectory of bills, at a time when trust in the industry, as we have been debating in Committee, remains low due to financial mismanagement from some water companies and, too often, consumers receive poor quality from these services? A further question, which I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify, is what modelling have the Government done to ensure that all the costs recovered will always be to the benefit of the taxpayer and the consumer?”
“Clause 10 amends the Environment Act 1995 to allow the Environment Agency and Natural Resources Wales the power to make charging schemes to recover costs from water companies. While the Opposition wish to raise no formal objections to the clause, we would be grateful for clarification on a couple of points from the Minister. First, can the Minister explain whether the changes in this clause to the Environment Act 1995 that allow costs to be recovered from water companies could impact consumers in any way? Although it is already possible, we must be mindful that consumers may face extra costs, which I will discuss later regarding issues with the special administration orders that the Government have laid out in clauses 12 and 13, to be debated shortly.”
“She praised the inspectorate, and I echo that praise, but how do the Government intend to support its capabilities? Once again, we wish to raise no formal objections to the clause. I would be grateful for clarity on the points I have highlighted.”
“Clause 11 extends the purposes for which water quality inspectors may be appointed to include functions relating to national security directions under section 208 of the Water Industry Act 1991, and it provides flexibility for the charging of fees for regulatory work. This is a straightforward clause to which we raise no formal objection, but once again we would be grateful for a couple of clarification points from the Minister. How will the Government increase the Drinking Water Inspectorate’s ability to monitor and audit water supplies? Does the Minister feel that the clause will improve the inspectorate’s functions? Will the Minister please explain how the Government intend to support the powers of the Drinking Water Inspectorate, beyond this clause?”