Bobby Dean
MP for Carshalton and Wallington · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“A study that came out this week said that of the 2,500 articles about extreme weather over the last few weeks, 72%—the vast majority—made no mention at all of climate change. That is despite the fact that scientists tell us that the link between the two is indisputable.”
“I join the Leader of the House in his comments about Ann Widdecombe. She was a conviction politician and she was respected for that. I join Mr Speaker, and I am sure Madam Deputy Speaker as well, in thanking the staff for all their service over the course of the term.”
“I understand that usually, if the Government want to make a statement relating to foreign affairs, we get a statement from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, so I hope it will not be a habit of the House to change the whole business to Back-Bench debates, rather than giving us a formal statement from Government Ministers.”
“T6. I listened to the Minister’s answers earlier on the dentistry contract, and he said that the Government need time to get it right and that a consultation will be launched soon. My local dentists are desperate to take on NHS patients. This has been a known issue for a number of years.”
“More broadly, the country will be wondering why, although we have effectively known for weeks who the new Prime Minister will be, it will be months before he faces any parliamentary scrutiny on his plans. Will the Leader of the House explain how this situation has been allowed to happen?”
“The Office for Budget Responsibility fiscal report, out today, highlights some of the long-term risks of climate damage to the UK’s finances. Unlike other OBR reports at formal fiscal events, there are no implications for the Government; they do not have to make any adjustments to their current financial planning.”
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“When I speak to parents or teachers about social media, they tell me that they are concerned about how much time children spend on their devices, who they are speaking to and the fear that comes from not knowing what they are watching and reading. That is no surprise, because we as adults are struggling on the same platforms in the same way, and there is very little reassurance that the experience that young people get is much different from our own. The violence, the pornography, the hate—we all see it, and they see it too. Just a few weeks ago, there was a horrific stabbing in my constituency involving a teenage boy. The video was posted all over social media within minutes. It kept popping up in my feed on Facebook, as it was shared across local groups, and I was tagged in the video on X.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. Social media has the power to provide spaces for connection, free speech and content creation that were unimaginable just a few decades ago. I remember what it was like to be a part of the first generation of teenagers to use social media. I hear the likes of MSN, Myspace and Bebo are no longer a thing among the youth, but I understand the joy of platforms like them and why we would not want our parents involved and snooping around on them. None the less, exactly how much space and freedom we should afford teenagers as parents and as society is the subject of intense debate.”
“The evidence is overwhelming: financial education is not a “nice to have”; it is essential for the wellbeing of our citizens and the future of our economy. I urge the Government to act decisively and ensure that every child in the UK has access to the financial education that they need and deserve.”
“Member for York Outer (Mr Charters) outlined, today’s young people are increasingly turning to social media for financial advice. Just last week, the financial wellbeing charity Your Money found that six in 10 young people follow so-called financial influencers, or “finfluencers”, which is difficult to say, with 77% trusting their advice. Alarmingly, one in 10 said that they would act on that advice without doing further research. If we do not fill the gaps, others will. The Liberal Democrats will continue to push for measures that address financial exclusion. That can be done by supporting banking hubs, with their crucial offer of face-to-face advice, as well as by protecting funding for citizens advice bureaux, such as the one that I visited in Wallington.”
“Clearly, financial education needs to start early and must become a key part of the primary curriculum. Research shows that money habits are set at the age of seven, yet there is no statutory requirement to teach personal finance in primary schools in England. Furthermore, we must support teachers to deliver that education effectively. That means providing centralised guidance, teacher training and signposting to quality resources. The Government should back the national campaign to raise awareness of financial education and its benefits, and support initiatives such as My Money Week, which promotes financial literacy in schools and communities. But the job does not end in school, and the urgent need to address financial illiteracy cannot be overstated. As the hon.”
“On the face of it, the attraction is clear. Instead of struggling with debt on multiple fronts, a person can make one simple regular payment to a company and that company will deal with everything for them. The trouble is that these companies do not always act in the individual’s interest. They have an incentive to sell IVAs, as they make money from them, and they end up being sold to people who have better alternatives, such as debt management orders. This practice needs to be regulated better, but we should also empower citizens to know better. The Liberal Democrats support a modernised curriculum—a curriculum for life that ensures that children are equipped with the skills required for adulthood, with a focus on a better understanding of personal finance and financial responsibility.”
“I wish to pick up on the point made by the hon. Member for Harlow about people not being able to budget their way out of poverty. He is absolutely right, but we can stop people from spiralling and making things worse. This point is deeply personal to me. I have seen my family suffer from the crippling nature of debt on more than one occasion—both as a child and as an adult. I sometimes think to myself that I just wish that they had reached out to me sooner. But I have a better wish than that: I wish that our education system and society more broadly talked about debt and how to deal with it far more openly. When I visited my local citizens advice bureau in Wallington recently, staff told me how predatory companies are offering individual voluntary arrangements to people who are totally ill-suited to them.”
“Although this is beyond the scope of the debate today, this is where the advice guidance boundary review could be crucial for Britain’s growth prospects. We must upskill all of Britain today and not only the citizens of the future. Let me turn now to debt. The consequences of getting this wrong are grave. Our failure to equip people with the knowledge that they need to manage and escape debt puts the most vulnerable in our society at risk—risk of hunger, risk of ill health and risk of financial ruin. My inbox is full of emails from people who reach crisis point before seeking help. In each case, there were so many straightforward steps that they could have taken to prevent escalation, but a combination of shame and financial illiteracy leaves people stranded, helplessly watching on as their situation goes from bad to worse.”
“Research by Moneybox reveals that two thirds of Britons are £65,000 worse off on average due to low financial confidence and knowledge. Astonishingly, it suggests that if these people were better equipped it would equate to a potential £2 trillion of extra spending power in the UK economy over their lifetimes. Members might think that this difference merely correlates with the haves and the have nots, but Moneybox’s research found that, in most instances, the key indicator of success was financial confidence and not where people started in life. This alone should motivate us to improve the delivery of financial education in schools, but also to ensure that all adults can better equip themselves today.”
“Pensions is about the only arena in which it is discussed properly, but even then it is kind of pushed to the back of our minds. It is all about auto-enrolment and it is dealt with out of sight by others. I wish to pick up on the point made by the hon. Member for Swindon North (Will Stone) about how few of the self-employed invest in their own pensions. That certainly happened to my parents who were self-employed all their life. I was self-employed too and, for the large bulk of my career, I did not invest in a pension. If Brits were equipped with the knowledge and the skills to make relatively safe, sensible investments over the course of their lifetimes, the benefits to those individuals and to the economy as a whole would be enormous.”
“Some of the hard, practical, daily challenges of adulthood are often not addressed properly, at least not in an applied way, during our education. Nowhere is this more apparent than in financial literacy, which is, of course, distinct from numeracy. It is not just about adding and subtracting, or even working out percentages, but budgeting, debt management, saving for the future and investing. These are things that can empower people to make better decisions for their lives and set them up to achieve their goals. But we let people down when we view these skills as specialist rather than essential. Let me focus on two elements in particular: investing and debt. The British seem to have a big problem with investing. There is an assumption that it is for traders or the rich, and our national conversation tends to shy away from it.”
“I am not quite sure how I am supposed to follow the hon. Member for Harlow (Chris Vince). He was extremely entertaining and informative. I wish to thank the hon. Member for Broadland and Fakenham (Jerome Mayhew) for securing this debate. He spoke with passion and empathy for those who are struggling with financial literacy and made sure that this House knows how important that topic is. All Members in this House have probably at some point come across somebody—perhaps a constituent on a doorstep, a family member or a friend—who says that people just do not get taught what they need to know in life at school. That is overdone slightly; the fundamentals of maths, science and literacy do serve us well in life, but there is truth in that statement.”
“One way that we can play a leadership role on this issue is by choosing to be an active participant in that conversation and showing our leadership there too. In conclusion, this is the right thing to do, it is in our interests to do it, and it is on Britain in particular to lead on it.”
“We have probably all seen the statistic that one third of all global tax dodging is enabled by British overseas territories. I share the frustrations of the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) about British overseas territories not necessarily abiding by their constitutional demands or sharing the values we have been talking about today. It is incumbent on us to make sure that our Government act in the fullest and strongest possible way. I hope the Minister will pledge that Britain will show leadership on this issue, that the Government will ensure that the deadlines are met quickly, and that trusts will be added to the register. I will add that Britain has shied away from participating in discussions on the UN tax convention.”
“Member for Kensington and Bayswater talked about how global corruption gets to hide under this, too. That underlines the unfairness of this issue. My second point is about revenue. It is clear that our public services are under strain, and we should be able to assess what tax is owed and collect it. That is a very basic principle. I know that the Government have done some good work in terms of investing in HMRC. I welcome that and hope that it can be a model for what we do on a global scale, so that we go further and faster on this issue, too. My final point, and the one I wanted to make the most, is about Britain’s responsibility on this global issue. It is a global problem, but it is one in which Britain has a really important role to play.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. I join others in thanking the hon. Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell). He has been a relentless campaigner on this issue for a number of years, and I hope that now he is in this place he can make a real impact on it. I want to make a few short points. The first, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), is about fairness, and the injustice that many of our constituents feel about this issue. Those who are most able to pay are also most able to avoid paying. The hon. Member spoke about his constituent being chased by HMRC, yet on a global scale it feels like that is not being done in the same way. The sense of injustice really burns people up. This is about restoring trust in politics and our economic system more broadly. The hon.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point about the long-term benefits to the economy from treating the benefits system seriously. Does he agree that that applies to the two-child cap as well because if we were to remove that not only would we lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, which is inherently a good thing, but we would also improve health and education outcomes and ultimately make a more productive population over the long run?”
“The points made about labour conditions and pay need to be non-negotiable, because if the only way that outsourcing works out cheaper for a local authority is by treading down on workers, that is not a good enough reason to outsource a service. In conclusion, the Government have inherited decades-worth of assumed knowledge about this area, whereby people feel that outsourcing is the only route forward for many services. I hope that this Government will start to review that and think again.”
“However, there will be situations where outsourcing makes sense, particularly where specialist skillsets cannot be retained in house, perhaps because local authority budgets mean that it is not the right thing, and so on. In those situations, we need to make sure we have the very best and toughest negotiators and contract specialists in house. That is where outsourcing falls down time and again, because there is an over-reliance on the private sector’s expertise and views on what is best for the contract, and we end up losing out every single time. We need much better standards for what we expect from the outcomes of contracts and an ability to break them much sooner if those outcomes are not being delivered. We also need to be able to monitor and enforce them better.”
“In many respects, the public sector has lost the expertise and capability to deliver properly in that area, and now we have private equity firms that have eaten up the sector—completely oligopolised it—and, as a result, captured that market and charged local authorities through the roof for services that the public sector should certainly be delivering. I make those points to explain how I understand the profit motive and how poor markets can lead to bad outcomes, but it does not always have to be that way. Crucial to this is procurement and contracting expertise. I default to the position that many Members have expressed, which is that insourcing will very often be the better way forward, particularly when proper pay and conditions for the labour force are enforced.”
“We have since brought our housing repair services in house, and have seen much better outcomes from the perspective of residents, because people are arriving at their properties and trying to make them good, rather than just working to the job that is on the ticket. The other thing, which worries me more, is market regulation. We have very poor market regulation of contractors, which allows monopolies or oligopolies to build up very quickly. We have seen that probably worst of all in the children’s home sector, which is a service that used to be delivered by the public sector.”
“If I had more time today, I would point to some of the many innovations that started off in the public sector, which are sometimes picked up by the private sector, which then claims the credit for it. We can attract talent, but we need to facilitate that in the right way, with the right pay, conditions and working culture in the public sector. I understand the many ways in which the profit motive can be in conflict with the aims of those of us in the public sector. I have seen it at a local authority level, where we contract out housing repairs, and jobs are always done to task instead of to the satisfaction of the resident.”
“I know there will be some people of a socialist persuasion in this room, but getting this question right is also important to those who care about social justice in a well-functioning, mixed economy, too. I think we are currently getting the question completely wrong. On public sector capabilities, I think we infantilise the public sector. We talk about it as incapable of producing top talent or brilliant innovations, yet we have so much evidence to the contrary. We seem to accept that, because the private sector can offer higher wages, it somehow always delivers better outcomes, but that is clearly not true. People take a lot of pride in public sector work, and that can motivate them in ways that the private sector can never motivate individuals.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Jeremy. I would like to make a few points about public sector capabilities, compatibility with the profit motive, and the process for outsourcing. Before I start, I would like to reinforce the comments that the hon. Member for Alloa and Grangemouth (Brian Leishman) made about ideology. It is important to point that the claims that are made about the outsourcing benefits are not rooted in scientific fact; they are very contestable beliefs, and Members have put forward evidence against that notion today. That is worth underlining, because too often when I talk with officers at a local authority level, or Government bodies, it is accepted as fact that the public sector is somehow clunky and more expensive than the private sector. We need to continue to push back at that at every level.”
“The whole House supports a focus on growth, which is good for our prosperity and key to funding our public services. However, growth has not only a rate but a direction, and how we seek to achieve growth is about choices. If we choose to back measures that undermine our net zero targets, we may be going for growth today with severe consequences for tomorrow. How do the Government justify their choice to back Heathrow expansion over more sustainable rail transport projects across the country?”
“I fear that the Government’s drive for growth has meant that they have become fearful of the tough regulation that my hon. Friend suggests. They see it only as an impediment, instead of the basis for a stable economy. Does he agree that weak regulation is not only bad for consumers and for the environment, but also for investment over the long run?”
“The power vested in large corporations is greater than ever. Tech giants are exerting monopolistic power over the market, so I am becoming exasperated with the Government’s Thatcherite-like attitude towards deregulation. Do the Government understand the risks involved in going for short-term boosts to growth over long-term stability of the economic market?”
“The Labour manifesto committed to replacing the business rates system. However, last week at the Treasury Committee, the Minister seemed to rule out the kind of comprehensive reform that the Liberal Democrats and others have been campaigning for, and indicated that there might only be a tinkering around the edges of rates and reliefs. Can the Minister confirm today whether the Government still intend to replace the business rates system, or will they just be tinkering around the edges of this broken system?”
“A Carshalton resident had her car stolen from her driveway. There is video footage of it, but the police just gave her a crime reference number and closed the case. Local businesses on Wallington high street tell me that organised shoplifters are acting with impunity. The Home Secretary touched on recruitment being part of the solution, but what else can the Government do now to help my constituents feel safe?”
“The Royal Marsden, which is a world-class facility for treating cancer patients, is in my borough of Sutton. One of the things that struck me when I went there was how much energy goes into trying to make the whole experience for the family and the child going through cancer as comfortable as possible. It was not just about the clinical treatment that that child received, but about having play spaces and comfort areas, and doing everything possible to make that really tough experience a manageable one. Does my hon. Friend agree that the state should seek to do the same, by reducing bureaucratic hurdles, such as those he described, to ensure that that terrible time for the family goes as comfortably as possible?”
“It is an issue close to my heart as well, as I moved into the care of my grandparents as a young teenager. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is crucial we get this absolutely right first time, because it is such a rare opportunity to address kinship care? Ministers should keep listening to kinship organisations to fill in the gaps that those organisations see in the Bill, particularly in relation to the definition and to mental health care support.”
“I have listened carefully to the Minister’s answers on the Chancellor’s visit to Beijing, and I believe she has said that concerns will be raised. Concerns have been raised time and again, and it has got us nowhere, so is it not time to draw a line in the sand? Is it not the minimum we could do to raise our voices a little more loudly, demonstrate our anger a little more publicly and cancel the Chancellor’s visit to Beijing?”
“T5. In my constituency we have an incinerator that regularly breaches its air pollution limits, but the Environment Agency does nothing about it. Will the Government tell us what they are doing to give the EA teeth?”
“I thank the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for opening the debate. He is a fellow Bob and a fellow Spurs fan. I am not sure how much we will agree on in 2025, but something we certainly do agree on is Spurs winning something.”
“The hon. Members for Luton South and South Bedfordshire (Rachel Hopkins), and for Reading Central (Matt Rodda), talked about their respective football clubs; I will be going to watch my local football club on Boxing day, and I hope the hon. Members do the same. My hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr Forster) talked about Formula 1, not football, but that gives me a really good link back to Tottenham Hotspur football club, who are the hosts of the only F1 go-karting track in the country. Again, my new year’s hope is that we win a trophy. In closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish you a merry Christmas, as well as all the staff who have been so supportive of me as a new Member of this House. I thank all our colleagues for the respectful debates that we have had today and throughout the year.”
“Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers), who talked about the serious issue of headlight glare. On a more serious point about Christmas food and drink, many Members reflected on how many people will go without food this Christmas, and how important it is that we acknowledge the vital role of food banks at this special time. Our work in this place will never be done until every food bank is abolished. My Christmas drink reference is a little more tangential. The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Llinos Medi) mentioned her port, and I classify Christmas port as a drink for this festive period. Finally, we talked about Christmas sport. We might be moving into Boxing day a bit here, but the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) talked about our being better together, and sport is a special way of bringing people together at this time.”
“The hon. Member for Dartford (Jim Dickson) talked about driving home for Christmas. I am a subscriber to autopay for the Dartford tunnel because my parents live in Essex, so I will go through his constituency in a week or so as I drive home for Christmas. The hon. Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor (Alan Strickland) talked about a local band that will not be contesting the Christmas No. 1—thankfully, because my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) would not be too happy about that. I was shocked that my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) did not mention the choir behind our right hon. Friend’s “Love is Enough” single—so I will get that plug in, and keep my job. There was a mention of what I will dub “Christmas lights”—although not quite—by the hon.”
“Secondly, on the cost of living, I am privileged to sit on the Treasury Committee, so I get to examine very closely the country’s finances and, I hope, to make an impact on the economy more broadly. Thirdly, on the environment, I have been focused on my local river, the Wandle. I made a documentary film about it last year, and we are doing a short follow-up in the new year—just in time for the Oscars. We have heard lots of brilliant tributes to local organisations, volunteers and charities, and a range of issues have been raised, but I will focus my highlights on the Christmas-themed contributions. The right hon. Member for Walsall and Bloxwich (Valerie Vaz) almost went into “The Twelve Days of Christmas” with her mention of a partridge in a pear tree. She also mentioned many constituency and international issues of concern to her.”
“Yes. The hon. Gentleman covered lots of local and international issues, which I think demonstrates the breadth of debate in this place. Before I respond to some of the Back-Bench contributions, I will focus a little on my work in Carshalton and Wallington. I made three big promises to my constituents: on the NHS, on the cost of living and on the environment. I feel that I have made some progress in my first few months in office. First, I have negotiated with the NHS trust and the Health Secretary on the future of our local St Helier hospital. We hope that will mean that we will retain our A&E services and get a new building in our community in the next year.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer, but I would like to focus on the age differential in the rates. He will be aware that people under 25 receive a different rate of universal credit. The Government announced that they will try to abolish the age differential for the national living wage. If it could also be abolished for universal credit, that would be really good for young care leavers. Will the Minister look at potentially phasing out the age differential in universal credit?”
“A constituent who is now a prisoner of HMP Coldingley wrote to me recently about the appalling conditions in his prison. He spoke about the prevalence of drugs, violence, discrimination and denial of access to healthcare. In his most recent letter to me, he said that the conditions had got so bad that he made an attempt on his life. Another report on Coldingley has described the conditions as “inhumane”. Can the Minister tell me what urgent work is being done to ensure that all our prisons have humane conditions for prisoners?”
“When he appeared before the Treasury Committee, Paul Johnson of the IFS remarked on another unfairness: someone can simply leave the country for a few years and dispose of an assets overseas—somewhere like Monaco—and they are then no longer responsible for capital gains tax. That is another inherent unfairness. Ultimately, with the proposed changes only, the system will continue to disproportionately benefit the very wealthiest. It is for that reason that I cannot support the measure. If it passes, I hope the Government will consider carefully the impact of the change in isolation, and whether further reforms are necessary in future. Our tax system needs to ensure that everybody pays their fair share, and I do not think the Government have quite got this one right yet.”
“Secondly, we ought to be targeting capital gains tax at those making the larger gains—if large gains are to be had, those investments will be made anyway. Smaller gains, however—the stuff at the margins—are where investment decisions could be at risk. Raising the CGT allowance a bit would go a long way towards addressing that, as would designing better-targeted reliefs that more precisely encourage investment. Finally, we come to capital gains tax rates, whose alignment with income tax rates is often called for. The Government have of course moved a bit on that, but a focus on rates alone means that an inherent unfairness remains. There would still be the sense that there is one rule for small businesses and another for the giants.”
“As others have explained in putting capital gains tax into context, it is paid by around 350,000 people and raises around 2% of total tax revenue, and 12,000 people account for two thirds of that revenue. That tax does not necessarily affect a broad section of society, but it does play an important role in investment in the economy and in the overall sense of fairness in our system. Let me start with the economy. It makes no sense to me for the Government to make changes to capital gains tax without sorting out the tax base. If we do not index capital gains for inflation, we are not really taxing the thing that we say we are taxing. We should be focused on the real gains—otherwise, we risk taxing those who simply hold on to an asset for a long time, and ultimately we end up discouraging long-term investment.”
“Believe it or not, I have had conversations about tax on the doorstep, and I mostly meet people who are proud to make that contribution. Let me be clear: this is not some special plea to talk about tax in a warmer, fuzzier way in order to improve the civility of public discourse. Nor should it be confused for advocacy of a high-tax based economy. I raise that point because our distorted public conversation means that we end up with a dysfunctional tax system that is neither efficient nor equitable. Where we are with capital gains tax is a good example of that. Decades of wrangling over whether capital gains tax stifles entrepreneurship or is merely a ruse for the rich often results in a pretty reductive focus on rates. It seems that that happened again in the Budget, and I fear that we have missed an opportunity to make that tax better.”
“Before I address capital gains tax directly, I will make a few short remarks about the state of the national conversation about tax more generally, which I think is highly relevant. I note that tax is always something to be “hit by” in politics—it is violent; we are “hammered” by it—so the debate ends up focusing on who is deserving or undeserving of such punishment. As a result, few organisations are viewed as legitimate targets for taxation. Very rarely do we in politics have the bravery to talk about the virtue of paying tax—what it pays for, how it benefits us all, and why collectively contributing to schools, hospitals and physical infrastructure is sensible investment that we should be proud to make. That is where the political conversation falls slightly out of step with the mood of the public.”
“A fantastic local social enterprise in my constituency has been helping adults with disabilities back into work. It recently set up a café that is run entirely by adults with learning disabilities. How does the Department plan to take evidence from innovative organisations of that kind, and will the Secretary of State meet members of this organisation to find out about the work it has been doing?”
“This is a bad day for human rights, but for the Hongkongers living in my constituency it is a frightening day. Beyond the broad reassurances that the Minister has already given, what specific action will the Government take to protect Hongkongers living in the UK from state surveillance?”
“In the London borough of Sutton, we started to in-house some children’s care home provision back in 2020, and we now care for six children with complex needs. What assessment has the Department made of the potential scale of local authorities taking on services directly, if given the right support by the Government?”
“Thank you, Dame Siobhain. I thank the right hon. Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) for securing this debate. It is shocking that this might be the first proper debate we have had in this place on this topic. We have discussed whether live facial recognition technology is a legitimate tool and, if so, under what circumstances and controls it should be used. It is clear from the debate that there are many doubts, and we should probably be thinking about halting the use of the technology until we have cleared them up. I will start with the concern about discrimination, which was articulated well by the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler). It is clear that black people and people from other communities are likely to be disproportionately misidentified by this technology.”