Catherine Atkinson
MP for Derby North · Labour · United Kingdom
“We have tabled amendments to ensure that the offence of misleading the public and the two statutory misconduct in public office offences apply on a UK-wide basis. Those are amendments 40 to 42 and 70, and new clause 9 and amendments 44 to 51 respectively.”
“To be clear, those individuals will remain subject to the duty of candour, provided that an investigation or inquiry relates to their former role, and the offence of misleading the public will also still apply, even if they have retired. On subcontractors, the main contractors will be accountable for their subcontractors’ performance.”
“Friend the Member for Hammersmith and Chiswick (Andy Slaughter), we have taken steps to improve transparency in how we respond to inquiry recommendations.”
“I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for the time she has spent with me in raising this and other issues. Under our proposed expansion, multiple family members will be able to receive non-means-tested legal help to prepare for an inquest hearing where a public authority is an interested person, and that includes help with preparing docum…”
“I am going to make some progress, and then I will take interventions again. The amendments before the House ensure that the duty of candour and assistance applies to all individual intelligence officers, while establishing secure procedures for the disclosure of sensitive information.”
“We have heard many contributions about placing water companies under obligations of a code of ethical conduct, and although the code of conduct provisions do not apply to private water companies in England and Wales, the Bill contains a power to extend this. The Government will consult on that in due course. The hon.”
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“I rise to speak to amendments 36, 37 and 18. It has been a number of years since I was regularly involved in care proceedings as a barrister, but I did so for the best part of a decade. I and a number of my former colleagues hugely welcome this requirement for family group decision making to ensure that it can consistently take place and that all kinship options are considered before there is an application to remove a child from their family and place them in care. I anticipate that the clause will mean fewer cases where lawyers have to get involved and where families are subject to care proceedings. I am concerned about amendments 36 and 37, however, which would make the Bill more directive about children being present at family group decision making.”
“Out-of-court or pre-proceeding discussions and settlements, and the involvement of professionals, have therefore become far harder since 2012.”
“The amendment does not do anything to ensure that we deal with cases rapidly, because the 26 weeks starts when an application is made, but the whole point of the clause is that family group decision making needs to take place before an application is made. In my view, the amendment does nothing to restrict the time to 26 weeks, because clause 1 does not have an impact on that timescale at all, and it certainly does not prevent local authorities from holding family group decision making earlier. I am somewhat provoked to note that it was the coalition Government’s Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 that cut all legal aid for private family law cases unless there are allegations of abuse.”
“At the moment, the 26-week time limit set out in the Children and Families Act 2014 is not met in over two thirds of cases. I think we are averaging 41 weeks—which is better than last year, when it was nearly 45 weeks—and that includes cases where everything is agreed and not contested. My former colleagues are regularly involved in cases lasting over a year and some lasting over two years. I do not think that, in the 10 years since the 26-week limit was enacted, the majority of cases have ever been completed within six months. The amendment is therefore somewhat incongruous given what we have seen over the last 10 years—I think that a number of my former colleagues would consider it brass neck.”
“Giving that discretion is really important, but by saying “should”, amendment 37 would give a directive to the local authority to first look at including the child, and only reject that in circumstances where it can be demonstrated that including them would be harmful and inappropriate. In my view, that fetters the discretion and pushes things into a potentially harmful situation, especially given the number of children that we are talking about—not younger children, but definitely those at the upper end. In my view, we should not fetter the discretion. I do not think that that kind of directive is helpful in those circumstances. On amendment 18, I do not need to be told how important it is that childcare proceedings are conducted quickly and without delay.”
“My authority has invested in early help services, and we have an edge of care team that targets children on the edge of the care system. When we are able to prevent them from going into care, we track the cost avoidance, looking at what a typical placement might have cost. We have saved in excess of £5 million over the last three years in cost avoidance. The case is well argued. The challenge is that councils are at different starting points because of the way in which funding has been eroded over the last 10 years and the fact that many councils have to prioritise the higher-cost services, which often take away from early intervention. It is a false economy. If we can get the funding right, the Bill offers us an opportunity to invest in family help and early help services and start to see impacts much more consistently.”
“Q We heard in earlier evidence that spending on early intervention has reduced while crisis costs have significantly increased. What do you think will be the impact of early intervention, including family group decision making, primarily on outcomes but also, in the longer term, on costs? Ruth Stanier: We very much think that the measures in the Bill will help to pull funding to the left, further upstream into prevention. We warmly welcome the Government’s recent investment in the children’s prevention grant. We think that the measures should help to improve outcomes and reduce costs over the longer term. Andy Smith: It is absolutely a false economy not to invest in early help and early intervention. We know that the evidence base is so strong on children escalating into higher-cost services.”
“Will the serving of that order deal with the problem at the time? Often, what has gone wrong in child protection will not be solved by just making a court order, particularly a supervision order. I could be here for a long time on that, but that is another Bill, probably another day.”
“I do not know how many of you are familiar with the chief social worker paper from a few years ago called “Care proceedings in England: the case for clear blue water”. A very good, strong case was made for, “Don’t come into court with children where it is going to end up either with them back at home or with a supervision order that gives no statutory power to the local authority. Come into court for the kids that really need a care order and protection and to go somewhere.” We could revisit the extent to which that is an effective situation. A third of children who come into family proceedings now either remain at home or go back home. I make no judgment about that, but a third of children going through family proceedings is expensive. We need to think about what the point at issue was and what was needed at the time.”
“So in my view some of the construction of this has to be a bit more thoughtful about the children who are going to do well in their families and the children who are not going to stand a chance and need, quickly, to move to permanence and to other places. Residential care is not doing particularly well for children with very special needs. We struggle to recruit foster carers because the resources around them are not there. It is the shape of what is around those other places, not residential care, that needs to be elevated, in order to reduce the number of children coming into care. Just having family group decision-making conferences or kinship alone is not enough; I do not know anyone saying it is.”
“Q We have seen the number of children in care rising really significantly. Looking at the child protection measures, the kinship clauses and the family group conferencing, what do you feel the overall impact of Bill will be on the numbers of children in care? Jacky Tiotto : It is difficult. We have primary legislation in the Children Act 1989 that says that, in this country, we think the best place for children is growing up in their family or with relatives. When the 30-year review of the Children Act happened, people still signed up to that; this Bill definitely reminds us and provokes that intention again. The difficulty is that the formality around protecting children is burdensome, rightly so.”
“If a school is recommending that a child be placed in front of the child protection team, it should clearly not be possible for a parent to then withdraw that child from that oversight of the professionals and place them in home education. Not only is having a register of children who are not in education massively important for keeping individuals safe, but it will be of significant benefit to Ofsted. In the Bill, there are sharing powers between the DFE, the local authority and Ofsted that will allow us to investigate for unregistered and illegal schools, so we will be better able to determine where they might be taking place. That will be hugely beneficial for keeping children safer.”
“Q We heard from the Children’s Commissioner that the number of children who are missing from education and at risk of child sexual exploitation has been getting worse. I am interested in your views as to why. Sir Martyn Oliver: We see quite a number of issues. I spoke recently in my annual review, which I laid before Parliament in December, about home schooling and flexi-schooling. To be clear, many children are very well flexi-schooled and home-schooled, but I am very concerned about those who have been withdrawn from the school’s register for all the wrong reasons. Dame Rachel recently mentioned the very sad case of Sara Sharif.”
“Q You were talking about “broad and balanced”. Given the 47% drop in arts subjects at GCSE, do you feel that more needs to be done to ensure that we have an even broader range of subjects that can be enjoyed? Sir Martyn Oliver: Speaking as a qualified teacher of fine art, absolutely.”
“I can see the desire to get that consistency, but there needs to be a consistency without stifling innovation. I support the idea that there needs to be breadth, but I think we have demonstrated that.”
“I would be really interested in your views, both on collaboration and on trying to ensure that we have a really broad option for all our children. Luke Sparkes: In terms of curriculum, we have always tried at Dixons to give as much breadth as possible. Our curriculum is fairly traditional. It does focus on the EBacc, but it has done so since before the EBacc existed. We have always specialised in the arts and sports as well. We have two schools with an arts specialism. We have always valued those, so I would agree with you that breadth is really important. There is a place to have, at a macro level, some kind of framework that is evidence-informed around the subjects that should perhaps be taught, but we also need the ability to enact the curriculum in a responsive and flexible way at a local level.”
“Q We heard from the National Association of Head Teachers that they wanted to see more collaboration, and some concern was expressed that not enough collaboration was taking place to date. I would be interested to hear your views as to how we can improve that, and whether you would acknowledge that, across a lot of different areas, it is not happening to date. I understood what you said in relation to narrowing to core, but given that we are in a position currently where we are seeing a 47% reduction in arts GCSEs, and in Derby the only place you can do engineering at high levels is the UTC in the college, there is some concern that that narrowing has cut off some opportunities to some of our young people.”
“The best collaboration in the system at the moment is within academy trusts, because they are under a common governance and people are sharing practice very openly. The next challenge is how we share practice and get collaboration working beyond the trust. We do a lot of work on that: working to support schools that are struggling, sharing leaders and leadership, sharing our subject advisers beyond the trust, working with governors and leaders in other trusts to support them, trying to be part of professional development programmes for leaders and staff, and offering our curriculum resources and our professional development beyond the trust. Of course, the risk is that people think you have some ulterior motive for doing that or that it is predatory. It is an ongoing piece of work.”
“Occasionally you would find a forward-thinking, energetic and effective local authority—such as Tower Hamlets in what it did with primary school literacy and numeracy, which had created a really collaborative structure in which great practice was being shared and standards were improving. But if you went to the next borough, it would—almost because Tower Hamlets was doing it—not be doing it. This problem of practice getting trapped within institutions has always been there and remains an issue in education. One of the things I set up post-Department was Challenge Partners, which is about sharing practice across the system and trying to use some of the school-to-school collaboration ideas we had in London Challenge. That is powerful and effective, and where that is working it is good.”
“Collaboration is, of course, a good thing as long as it is focused on standards, and does not alternate or deviate from that. It is possible to spend a lot of time talking in talking shops, but what we need is collaboration between multi-academy trusts and schools that is about sharing best practice. That will raise standards. Sir Jon Coles: On collaboration, it has always been an issue in the school system that practice gets trapped within the boundaries of institutions. Around 20 years ago, when I was setting up and running London Challenge, you could walk from one school to another in London and you would find outstanding practice in one school, and in the next school down the road they would have absolutely no idea what was going on.”
“Q So you are doing something, but that is not necessarily happening across other trusts and academies? Luke Sparkes: I cannot speak for the whole sector,but I can say what we believe. Sir Dan Moynihan: I agree with you on breadth, and we too emphasise the EBacc. Around 40% of our kids are pupil premium and another 30% are just about managing, highly disadvantaged children, but we want them to learn history, geography and a modern language to 16 because that gives them cultural capital that they will need. That does not mean that they cannot be doing high-quality vocational qualifications alongside. The only way to engineer that is to broaden the range of qualifications that will count towards measures such as Progress 8. That will be the incentive that the system needs.”
“We will also have the single unique identifier, which will be a way of making sure that information about a child does not fall through the gaps, and that children do not fall through the safety gap. There is also a whole raft of changes that aim to ensure that multi-agency working is embedded in our approach to safeguarding, as well as measures to try to keep children within the family unit, wherever that is possible, and strengthen the approach to kinship care. We have put funding in place to support local kinship care arrangements and are trialling better information being available. There is a range of measures, and clearly this is a big priority for us in the Bill.”
“Take breakfast clubs, which we know are good for attainment, behaviour and attendance: they will put £450 per child, per year, back in the pockets of parents, but also bring real benefits to children. More broadly, the commitments around uniform limits will make a real difference, as we have heard today, and will save the average parent £50. A series of measures in the Bill will make a real difference in the cost of living challenges that parents up and down the country are facing. Thank you for the question. Catherine McKinnell: On keeping children safe, I know that this is an area that you have spent a lot of time working in and have spoken about. The register of children not in school will be an important step, and has had cross-party support in this House for some time.”
“Q How do you think the Bill will help to stop children falling through the net? How can it help to support families, in the cost of living crisis, with the costs associated with school? Catherine McKinnell: Those are two quite big issues. Do you want to start on cost savings, Stephen? Stephen Morgan: As we have heard today, too many children are growing up in poverty in our country, and that is why it is important that the ministerial taskforce concludes later this year and decides what actions can be taken forward. As of 2023, one in four children were in absolute poverty, and that is why I am so pleased with the many measures that will make a big difference to children’s lives up and down the country.”
“T6. Last week I met a young dad at Derby City Mission who had been sleeping rough until he used its Safe Space night shelter. He was then able to move into one of its bedrooms, and he had just been informed that there was a home for him to move into: another step towards having somewhere his son can visit him next Christmas. Will the Minister consider whether that stepped model could be used to help more rough sleepers become ready for permanent accommodation?”
“Unregulated and uninsured souped-up electric scooters have been a real source of antisocial behaviour in Derby. Our police and crime commissioner Nicolle Ndiweni-Roberts has been working with Derbyshire constabulary to clamp down on illegal e-scooters, seizing and disposing of more than 200 since November. Will the Leader of the House ensure that a Home Office Minister and a Transport Minister meet me and other Members who have been raising such concerns to ensure that we are pushing forward with regulation and enforcement in relation to e-scooters?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to grow the skills necessary to build the service and maintain our submarine fleet? Rolls-Royce Submarines in Derby is doubling the size of its site in preparation for AUKUS, and it has its own nuclear skills academy with 200 apprentices every year. Does my hon. Friend agree that investing in apprenticeships is essential to providing the skills that we need?”
“I met women from the endometriosis support group in Derby, and so many reported that they had had to give up work because of their symptoms as well as the huge delays in their diagnosis and treatment. Does my hon. Friend agree that until this gets real priority and understanding, we will continue to lose out on the talents and skills of women with endometriosis?”
“A barrier to the growth of data centres for AI is their need for power. Rolls-Royce in Derby is at the forefront of small modular reactors and micro-reactors. SMRs are small enough to be on or next to data centre sites, and micro-reactors are the size of a shipping container. Co-location would mean less vulnerability to grid failure and cyber-attacks. Will the Secretary of State work with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero to explore whether this could be the clean energy solution needed to support sovereign AI capabilities?”
“I spent seven years managing a team of barristers on a public inquiry, and I have some insight into the benefits and limitations of public inquiries. Does the right hon. Member really think that wrecking the Bill would lead to a single perpetrator being brought to justice or protect a single child from these despicable crimes?”
“I hope the Government will keep under review whether in future the positive impact of free breakfast clubs can be extended to nursery schools as well as primary schools.”
“I rise to speak to three points: free breakfast clubs, the clauses dealing with kinship care, and—having spent the past seven years managing a team of barristers on a public inquiry—the Opposition wrecking amendment. First, we all know that children who have breakfast perform better at learning, and—a bit like me—can be better behaved as well. However, with the cost of living crisis left to us by the last Government, far too many parents struggle to ensure that children get regular morning meals. Having been a chair of governors at a nursery school, I am keenly aware that the greatest impact we can make on a person’s life chances comes in the early years. The Derby Poverty Commission is exploring with partners how free breakfast clubs can be provided in nursery schools in Derby, and is looking to work with businesses to fund that.”
“The Opposition’s newly discovered conviction that a further inquiry on child sexual exploitation is needed and their attempts to hijack this Bill smack of political point scoring and headline grabbing, and the suggestions we have heard that a further inquiry could be done in a year are wholly unrealistic. Inquiries can make recommendations, but they cannot implement them; that is our job, and wrecking this Bill will not achieve that.”
“The evidence is clear on the real benefits that breakfast can give our children and young people. Secondly, the Bill requires local authorities to consider kinship care before they issue proceedings for a child to go into the care system. Avoiding taking children into care when it is safe to do so leads to far better outcomes. In the first decade of my practice as a barrister, I spent significant time in family care proceedings; I was frustrated by delays then, and the situation now is far worse. Delay and limbo are hugely damaging to vulnerable children and their families. Finally, I am hugely disappointed by the Opposition wrecking amendment. I have spent the past seven years on a public inquiry, and I have some insight into the benefits and limitations of those inquiries.”
“I just wish to say that, nearly a decade after the national independent inquiry into child sexual abuse was set up, it is high time that the victims who so bravely gave evidence see action.”
“Mel was out of work and homeless, but YMCA Derbyshire saw only her potential, not her disadvantage. Now, she is at Toyota and on track for a leadership role. Its working assets programme has a 70% success rate in supporting homeless young people into employment. How will the youth guarantee help the Government join up with, enhance and champion local programmes like that?”
“I thank the Minister for and congratulate him on the positive step forward that we have seen with the appointment of lead Ministers in each Department to champion disability inclusion and accessibility. In his cross-Government role, I am sure that he will passionately drive the policies that we need to see in the lives of deaf and disabled people, so that they can thrive and we can all benefit from the full use of their talents and skills.”
“We recently had four of them—the British Deaf Association, the National Deaf Children’s Society, the Royal National Institute for Deaf People and SignHealth—in Parliament, at an event that I hosted and at which we were honoured to have the Minister attend and speak. Charities can act as a bridge to their communities, helping to facilitate policy- makers to learn directly from the lived experience of the communities themselves. The work that we need to do in Westminster to support the deaf community cuts across Government, and we need action from all Government Departments—Health, Education, Transport, the Home Office, Business and Trade, Work and Pensions and others.”
“Sadly, there are also far too many examples where the NHS is not doing enough to provide appropriate access. Two in three people who use BSL as their first language have no accessible method of contacting their GP, and four in five patients who are deaf or have hearing loss reported having an appointment at which their communication needs were unmet. Deaf people also suffer worse outcomes for physical and mental health than their peers. These are public policy failures, and as MPs and decision makers in Westminster, we need to take action to fix them. There are many brilliant charities providing evidence and expertise to feed into that work.”
“However, we know that our wider education system across the country far too frequently fails our children and young people. The attainment gap facing deaf pupils is equivalent to 12 months of learning by the end of primary school, and, at GCSE, deaf students perform more than a whole grade worse than their non-deaf peers in both English and maths. People who are deaf or have hearing loss are also penalised in the labour market. Less than four in 10 working-age people who use BSL as their first language are in employment. A third of that group are classified as long-term economically inactive—a total waste of their talents and ability. That point was made powerfully by my hon. Friends the Members for Thurrock and for West Bromwich (Sarah Coombes).”
“The school is also the largest employer in the midlands for deaf BSL users, who are incredible role models for their pupils, and provides training and development to partner agencies in Derbyshire and Derby. One example mentioned in the Ofsted report was a firefighter that the school had trained, who was able to use sign language in an emergency, providing support and reassurance to an individual involved in a road traffic collision. I have seen art by the school’s pupils that was shown an exhibition alongside work by renowned deaf photographer Stephen Iliffe at the Artcore gallery in Derby, celebrating the achievements of the deaf community, highlighting the diverse experiences in careers of deaf people, and demonstrating that, with the right support, there are no limits to what they can accomplish.”
“The media representation of the deaf community has certainly, and rightfully, grown in recent years, whether through deaf participation in “Love Island”, “Bake Off”, or “Married at First Sight”, or simple acts of inclusion in everyday interactions, but people who are deaf or have hearing loss are still marginalised in society, and there is still so much to do to provide the community with the life chances they deserve. Children and young people from across our country attend the Royal School for the Deaf Derby, which offers both day and residential specialist education. Last week, the Ofsted inspection on its residential provision was published, grading it as outstanding in all areas; I invite the Minister, if I may, to join me in congratulating the school.”
“The country was mesmerised when Rose Ayling-Ellis waltzed her way to lifting the glitterball trophy on “Strictly Come Dancing”, providing an overdue weekly prime-time lesson on deaf awareness and deaf culture for the nation. Films such as “The Silent Child” and “CODA” have not just showcased the rich talent that exists within the deaf community, but used stories and humour to give wider society an insight into the deaf existence and the barriers that people face on a daily basis.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Mark. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this debate. Derby has the largest number of deaf people outside of London, which I am sure is in no small part because we are privileged to have the Royal School for the Deaf Derby. This specialist school was founded in 1894 by Dr William Roe, after he witnessed a young deaf man being bullied and called “Dumb Jack”. Dr Roe was struck by the social and educational exclusion of deaf people, and this Disability History Month I pay tribute to him and the school that he created. There is no doubt that attitudes across society towards people who are deaf or have hearing loss have come a long way.”
“Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating Sussex Circus Fish Bar in Chaddesden for its 50 years of frying, and its owner Ronnie, who was two weeks old when his parents opened it? With one in seven of us choosing to have fish and chips for Christmas dinner, a debate on the enduring contribution of chippies to our national culture and cuisine and as a focal point in our communities would be timely, allowing us to discuss how we can support and thank those high street food business that serve us at this time of year.”
“At the Excel parking on Copeland Street in Derby, some residents are getting parking fines if they do not pay for their parking within five minutes. I am pleased that the Government will drive up standards in the private parking sector and are on the side of motorists. Could we have an update from a Local Government Minister on when the new code of practice for private parking will be published? I suggest that a five-minute rip-off charge is an example of what needs to go.”
“Bus cuts are absolutely devastating for the woman I spoke to who could not get her weekly shop, the young man I met who had to leave for work hours early to try to get multiple buses, and the husband who could not get a bus to the care home his wife was in. Since 2008, the east midlands has suffered bus cuts of 60%—more than any other region. Does the Minister agree that regional inequality is at the heart of this debate, and that it is far past time that we saw investment in our buses?”
“More than two thirds of care proceedings involving the most vulnerable children in our society cannot be completed within six months. Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a real concern that the safeguard is not deliverable, or risks being the rubber stamp that I know my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) does not want it to be?”
“Derby city centre is turning the page on 14 years of Conservative decline, with a new performance venue, a new business school and a restored market hall, but across the country we see too many empty shops and quiet high streets. [ Interruption. ] This Budget is putting more money into the pockets of working people to spend supporting local businesses. Will the Prime Minister commit, contrary to Conservative scaremongering, to support and protect the small businesses that are the beating heart of our high streets?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for coming to Derby last year to see our flood defences and to meet firefighters who had saved lives and property when Derbyshire was hit by floods. May I echo the calls for him to explore with the Home Office the possibility of putting the water rescue that they perform on a statutory footing? Will he give us an update on the next phase of Derby’s flood defence work?”