Chris Vince
MP for Harlow · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“It is hugely important that we build those international alliances because we cannot do that on our own. I ask the Minister to address in closing the economic impact on the UK of not getting the peace process back on track and trade flowing through the strait.”
“The hon. Member for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Evans) took an intervention right at the end of his speech, which threw me. It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. May I take this opportunity to thank my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Mr Bailey)?”
“I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I get really annoyed when others do that but I have just done it as well. I will move swiftly on and get to the main point of my speech.”
“I think Members across the House recognise the huge importance of debating these issues and the very concerning times that we live in—that is probably putting it mildly—and I cannot think of anybody else I would want to see debating them at the Dispatch Box, other than maybe my hon.”
“The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and I absolutely do, and I will add to that too. I wanted somehow to shoehorn in my support for the BBC World Service and ask Members to bear with me as I am going to do that, because it is also important that we recognise the malign influence of the Iran regime in this country.”
“My hon. Friend makes a really important point. I do not mean this response to sound jokey, but if I, for example, wanted to promote Harlow to be the UK capital of culture—sadly, we got rejected—the way to achieve that might not just be to directly say to people, “Come on, let’s get behind Harlow.” I am not suggesting that these bad actors…”
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“I was not going to be too political, but in preparation for hearing the shadow spokesman claim that we have never had it so good on maths teaching as we did under his Government, I say to him that that is as imaginary as the square root of minus one. I respectfully point out that the number of qualified maths teachers—yes, I am one of them—went down under his Administration. More and more, schools were forced to rely on non-specialists to teach maths. Some did so very successfully, but clearly when it comes to higher-level maths—A-level maths and A-level further maths—we want specialist teachers, even if they are engineering graduates, to tackle that.”
“In one of the schools I worked at—I will not name which—one of the deputy heads, a fantastic English teacher, proudly said on stage in front of students, “I was never very good at maths.” Imagine the impact that had on young people, who were perhaps already struggling with maths, about the importance of learning it. I am not saying it is right to criticise people who struggle to read or spell, but I am pretty confident that someone would not say that in the same way they are happy to say that they are not very good at maths. I appreciate I am talking in jest a little, but I hope the Minister will take from my speech the hope that we can challenge that misconception and say that it is important to be able to do maths, as the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire mentioned.”
“It is also where George Hockham and Charles Kao invented the fibre-optic cable. It is fair to say that such an invention could not have happened without the use of applied mathematics. In fact, any business, school or organisation in Harlow will rely on maths, whether that is to fill out tax returns or produce wage slips. Maths is absolutely everywhere. I find that one of the biggest frustrations with maths is that it seems to be acceptable for adults to say, “I’m not very good at maths.” When I was a teacher, some colleagues and senior colleagues said it.”
“In fact, Liz Hurley can be compared to the golden ratio. On literature, paper sizes are based around the golden ratio. When we read a book, we are likely to find that something significant happens around 61.8% of the way through, because this is a really important ratio. It is not just mathematical—it occurs in real life. I genuinely think that is interesting. I want to emphasise that we have a habit of talking about maths as a kind of challenge—almost a monster in the room—but it is not. It should be seen as our friend. The question of the role of maths in the UK is substantial, so I have thought about it a little more at the local level as being about the use of maths in Harlow. Hon. Members will be aware that Harlow is the home of Hannah Fry, who shares my passion for mathematics.”
“Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire that I was not a maths graduate—I was actually an engineering graduate, but I think he will understand. There is a lot of maths in engineering, and I was wholly qualified to teach it. I genuinely believe that we should love maths and not see it as a challenge to overcome but a tool to help us. I do not want to write a shopping list that says I am buying six apples and five bananas if I can use a and b instead. That is really important. On part b), one of my favourite things to teach, which is not on the curriculum, is the Fibonacci sequence. When I teach the Fibonacci sequence, I show pupils how that leads on to the golden ratio and how the golden ratio applies in real life to the shape of leaves or seashells, or to the amount of bees that live in a hive.”
“Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire and I will get these jokes, unfortunately; I apologise that my speech is not going to be at the same intellectual level as that of the hon. Gentleman. I taught secondary school maths in schools across Essex, and the two things students most often asked were a) “When are we going to use this in real life?”, and b) “Will this be on the exam?”. I am genuinely passionate about maths, not because it is on the exam or because there is a problem to be solved, but because maths in itself is a beautiful thing and something that we should enjoy. Those questions were therefore incredibly frustrating. After part a), they would sometimes add another line: “When will we use this in real life? And don’t say engineering.” I have to say to the hon.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I thank the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire (Ian Sollom) for bringing this debate to the House. There may be plenty of things we disagree on, but when it comes to maths, I am sin 2 θ and he is cos 2 θ, and together we are at one. There are a lot more of those jokes to come, Mr Vickers. I am a former maths teacher, I am married to a maths teacher and I am looking forward to the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins) commenting on how good the maths teachers are in her constituency. In fact, when I first met my wife—this is a little bit raunchy—I told her she was 1/cos C. Only the hon.”
“This does not have to be a political point, but to answer the question that the hon. Gentleman just posed about where schools find the time: my argument is that maths does not need to be taught in a silo. Many subjects—even creative subjects such as art and music, and certainly design and technology—would include an aspect of maths. For many young people, being able to apply maths in those particular subjects would actually be really useful. Would the hon. Gentleman concede that point at least?”
“Despite what everyone was thinking, I am not going to suggest that I am perfection, but as a mathematician, may I ask my hon. Friend to accept that the reason perfection is not achievable in that instance is to do with the infinite—the infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 1.1, for instance, or the infinite amount of numbers between 1.1 and 1.11?”
“I will briefly touch on new clause 15, for which my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Ms Creasy) advocated so well. She was correct to say that stability is hugely important for UK businesses, and she was also right to say that we do five times as much trade with the EU as with any of our other trading partners. As I said in a recent Opposition day debate, businesses in Harlow would absolutely welcome a breaking down of those barriers to trade with the EU. I also welcome my hon. Friend’s comments on the importance of scrutiny by this House. I joked with Mr Speaker yesterday that I do come to this Chamber quite often to talk about things in my constituency—believe it or not—but one of the most important roles of elected officials, whether on the Government or Opposition Benches, is scrutiny. The hon.”
“The Bill is an important piece of legislation that will update the UK’s product safety regulation and metrology framework. Some were sceptical on Second Reading, but clause 5(5) points out that it will not stop me having a pint—or, for my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Adam Thompson), 0.56826125 cubic decimetres of beer—at The Willow, The White Admiral, or any of the other moth-related pubs in Harlow. Regulation is only effective with enforcement, so I welcome the inclusion of the clause on enforcement. I would also welcome a little more detail from the Minister in his summing up, if possible, on the regulation and how we will ensure it is effective. I would also be grateful if the Minister could touch on cost recovery, which is obviously important for the relevant authorities to impose these regulations.”
“Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell)—every time the ceramics industry is mentioned by anyone in the House, I know there is an intervention coming. In all sincerity, his passion in standing up for the ceramics industry in Stoke should be respected by Members across the House. Businesses claiming that they make their products in England or in Stoke when they do not are not only dishonest; they also damage the industries that do make their products there. We all want to support our local industry wherever possible. Sadly, I do not go around buying a lot of fibre optic cables—although if I did, I would do so proudly, as the fibre optic cable was invented by George Hockham and Charles Kao in my constituency of Harlow.”
“It is an honour to speak in this debate on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill, and in particular the amendments tabled by the Public Bill Committee. I was not on the Committee—some might say I did not measure up. [ Interruption. ] My parliamentary assistant has asked me to point out that I wrote that joke, not her. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Adam Thompson). Following his contribution on Second Reading, I did take away his slides on metrology and found them particularly interesting. As a former maths teacher, I am sure he will recognise that without maths there would be no metrology. I wish to speak to a number of amendments, as is our role in this House. I will briefly touch on new clause 1, because I want to pay tribute to my hon.”
“I thank my neighbour for his intervention. We both recognise the importance of championing businesses in our constituencies, although I am sure he would recognise that businesses in Harlow are better than those in Epping Forest. That was a joke—apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker.”
“I have absolute confidence in the Secretary of State to ensure that he gets the best for British businesses—businesses in Epping Forest and in Harlow.”
“I will pre-empt the point of order: businesses in Epping Forest and in Harlow are equally very good and very successful. I will now move on. I disagree slightly with the hon. Gentleman on the reasons for the economic challenges. When I have spoken to businesses in Harlow, it is clear that we need to break down the barriers to trade with the EU that have been created. However, as I also said in a recent debate, I do not intend to rehash the same old arguments we have had over Brexit. It is about how we work with where we are at the moment, and I think the trade deal that the Prime Minister and the Business Secretary have secured on that is really positive. This is part of that alignment, and I think it is very positive. Just to finish, I will welcome the response from the Minister on some of the points that have been raised today.”
“We have heard a lot of myths about the Bill. The other myth that has been parroted is that the Bill will see the end of the great British pint. Does the Minister agree that actually it secures the great British pint? I look forward to enjoying one with him in the next few months.”
“My hon. Friend is giving an incredibly powerful and trademark passionate speech. When he talks about the support that families need, will he also recognise the support that young people and particularly young carers need? To experience a loved one suffering from dementia must be incredibly challenging for younger people as well.”
“My constituent Emily asked me to raise this issue in the House only yesterday, so I am taking the first opportunity to do so. Emily is a carer and has cared for a number of people across the Harlow community. Will the consultation on the earned settlement scheme take into account the hugely important role that carers, sometimes from overseas, do to support the most vulnerable in our communities?”
“I declare an interest, as a member of the Modernisation Committee. I thank you, Mr Speaker, for standing up for us Back Benchers and for granting so many urgent questions—I say that as someone who speaks in most of them on behalf of the people of Harlow. Does the Leader of the House agree that part of the Government’s remit is to modernise and to bring back trust in politics? Will she outline what she has been doing to that end and the work that the Committee has been doing to make this place more accessible?”
“We all want to live in a world in which a nuclear deterrent is not needed, but sadly we all recognise that we do not live in that world, and we are further from it than we were a decade ago. Does the Minister agree that whether we are discussing the UK’s nuclear capacity or any other capacity, we must have a NATO-first defence policy and lead within the alliance? While I am here, can I also congratulate the Veterans Minister on his epic feat up Everest last week?”
“Part of the issue with bus stops in Harlow has been caused by the redevelopment of sustainable transport corridors, which we absolutely welcome. Bus stops are being forced to move, making them less accessible. Is that something that the Bill takes into account? Even if it is a temporary bus stop or bus station, we need to ensure that it fits the criteria.”
“For 14 years, I saw my profession treated like dirt by the Conservative party: undervalued, underpaid and undermined at every single turn. Does the Minister agree that not only should we be paying our teachers fairly, but we should be treating them with respect, and that the only decent teacher recruitment the Conservative party did was to recruit former teachers to the Labour Benches?”
“It is ironic for me as a vegetarian that the first business that contacted me following my election was a bacon company called A1 Bacon, which raised legitimate concerns about the increasing costs of import from and export to the EU. From what the Prime Minister said yesterday, I am hopeful that the deal we have negotiated will help A1 Bacon and businesses like it in Harlow to continue to thrive and to trade with our EU neighbours.”
“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker—you are far too kind. Can I start by joining others in congratulating the Veterans Minister on his epic adventure to the peak of Everest? Before I get into the politics, I say anecdotally that I often see him in the gym, and he talks about his gym routine, which is considerably more thorough than mine. It is also a pleasure to speak so early in a debate—I am often compared to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) in that regard—so thank you for calling me, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a privilege to speak in the debate. As hon. Members across the House know, I will take any opportunity to talk about my town of Harlow and the greater constituency. As I told the Prime Minister yesterday, Harlow is home to some great businesses.”
“I understand that it is the only business in the UK that produces the boxes into which all the electrics go on a Boeing 747, which is pretty awesome. I also pay tribute to Wright’s Flour; New Ground café; Stort Valley Gifting, where I do my Christmas shopping, as did my predecessor; O-I Glass; and Ecco, which is a fantastic environmentally friendly charity that I will visit next week. Of course, the Minister would rightly criticise me if I did not mention our wonderful local Co-ops.”
“In all honesty, A1 Bacon has not contacted me about the Employment Rights Bill. As I said, it is concerned primarily with the increase in tariffs since we left the EU. I do not want to reopen that debate, as some hon. Members across the House seek to do, but I hope that the deal negotiated by the Prime Minister will help deal with that issue while ensuring that we maintain our sovereignty, which so many people who voted leave clearly want. I want to recognise some other businesses in Harlow. What is brilliant when we are first elected as MPs is that we get to see many hidden treasures in our constituencies that perhaps we could not see before we were elected. One of my early visits was to Harlow Group, which makes components for Boeing aircraft that travel the globe.”
“The UK has the fastest growing economy in the G7, we have had four interest rate cuts in a row, and this week and last week we have signed three international deals to boost trade. For the first time in a long time, there is hope on the horizon for the people of Harlow. I know that under this Government, this country will have a great future on the world stage. My only ask of the Minister is to ensure that Harlow is part of that bright future.”
“I welcome the £20 million of Government investment in Harlow town centre, but I do want more for my town. I appreciate that the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen), who is not in his place—I told him that I would mention this—has today’s Adjournment debate on this issue, but I will continue to lobby for the new site of the UK Health Security Agency to be in Harlow, which would mean 3,000 new high-tech jobs, providing Harlow’s next generation with the opportunity not only to aspire, but to really achieve in those jobs of the future. Economic inactivity rose in Harlow under the previous Government. My big ask of this Government is to invest in my town and my community. Anyone who knows me will know that I am a pretty positive guy. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] Thank you. The Minister set out the reasons why we should be positive.”
“In relation to growth in particular, they were housing and productivity. The solutions that will increase Harlow’s productivity and that of the country as a whole come down to three key areas. First, I will talk about skills. I pay tribute, as I have a number of times in the Chamber, to the fantastic work of Harlow college, which for many years has supported Harlow’s next generation of young people, giving them the skills they need not only for today, but for the jobs of tomorrow. Equally, I want to talk about the importance of transport links. I will later do a little pitch for Harlow; I hope that the Minister does not mind. We are ideally located between London and an international airport, so there is lots of potential. The other thing is transactions, and stimulating the economy through the transactions we make.”
“Thank you very much. One thing I will raise with the Minister, which has been fed back from my local Co-op—I am sure it is the same at his as well—is the increase in retail crime. I hope that he will take that seriously. He is nodding appreciably. I look forward to hearing him talk about that in his wind-up. Harlow is a great town. I have always said that it may not be the oldest new town, it may not be the newest new town, and it may not be the most successful economically, but it is absolutely the new town with the biggest heart. This morning, as a member of the all-party parliamentary group on new towns, I looked at some data produced by Visa on all the towns in the country and the challenges that many of them face. The challenges that Harlow faces, based on the metrics that Visa used, did not come as a big surprise to me.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman, who will know why I am here. Obviously I will sing the merits of relocation to Harlow, but I think we would both agree that we really want a decision on this and to know whether there will be a move or not, because the constituents both of us represent are currently in limbo.”
“I could talk about the benefits of the Harlow site for a long time, and I often do, but on this occasion I will be brief. May I ask the Minister, when the Government are making those decisions, to take account of the fact that the Harlow site is very much shovel-ready and is ideally located, given its strong infrastructure and travel links and its proximity to existing health clusters? The site would very much future-proof this important work.”
“I thank you for getting everybody in, Madam Deputy Speaker; it has been a mammoth session. I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. I notice that many businesses are in support of the deal. My constituency is home to many great businesses, from manufacturing companies to pharmaceutical companies, and from defence manufacturers to food exporters. Will the Prime Minister outline how the deal will benefit my great businesses in Harlow?”
“In my work in the charity sector in Harlow, I saw that post-traumatic stress disorder is a huge barrier to not only getting veterans into employment, but supporting them once they are in it. What will the Minister do to support veterans into and in work?”
“I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question. May I pay tribute to the many volunteers in Harlow, both those who supported people during the pandemic and, in particular, the Butterfly Volunteers who support people receiving end of life care at Princess Alexandra hospital? I feel emotional just thinking about that they do. We found that it was best to seek volunteers locally in Harlow, both through Rainbow Services and through the volunteer co-ordinator Della Nash, who is wonderful but who, sadly, was made redundant by the last Government. How can local charities and other organisations feed into the Government portal once it is up and running?”
“I thank the Home Secretary for her statement today and for the work that she and her Ministers have done on this really important issue. I also want to put on record my thanks and the thanks of the people of Harlow for the work that the police and security services do to keep us all safe. Does she agree that, as the methods of state-backed agents change and adapt, we too need to change and adapt? I am thinking in particular of what my hon. Friend the Member for Dover and Deal (Mike Tapp) said about intelligence gathering, and the Jonathan Hall report will be an important part of that.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. What shocks me most about this attack is that it is an attack on some of the most vulnerable people in our society. What can be done by residents in Harlow who are concerned that their data has been taken by these criminals, and how can they get legal aid if they need it?”
“My hon. Friend is making an important speech, and I know that her experience in this issue is almost second to none. She is making a point about how those with learning disabilities being confined in the way she suggests could add to their mental health issues. Supporting them in the community would alleviate a lot of those mental health issues. In the long term, that is better for them and for the community.”
“My hon. Friend has talked with real passion and expertise about children in care, and he makes some really important points. Does he agree that the mental health support we give to young carers—young people who support a family member—is equally important? They make such a huge difference to our communities and the NHS, and they too should be supported.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Listening to comments from across the House, I am reminded of a conversation I had this week with one of my constituents, Anne Strike, who is a victim of polio; she raised her concerns about the recent cases of polio found in conflict zones. I know how important residents of Harlow see it to tackle breaches of UK-imposed sanctions. The Minister has touched on this a bit already, but will he tell me what progress we have seen on enforcement measures in recent months?”
“My hon. Friend is making a passionate speech, and is showing why Scotland produces some of the greatest footballers of all time, like Billy Bremner. He mentioned the short-term funding of youth projects. My experience from my work with young carers is that part of the issue is that new projects need to be funded. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need long-term funding for not just existing projects, but new ones, too?”
“I was waiting for an opportunity to mention young carers, who are a hugely important part of the greater picture of young people and who often face many barriers to education. Does my hon. Friend agree that any consultation with young people should include young carers, as has my consultation in Harlow?”
“Thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. The hon. Lady is making an important speech and I thank her for her work on this issue. She will know about my passion to support unpaid carers, particularly young carers. She is giving some very important and high figures. However, is it likely that those figures are actually higher, because certainly many young carers, and I suspect it is the same with adult carers, do not recognise that they are carers?”
“The Minister is giving an important speech on a really important topic—a speech that I think everyone across the House will agree with. Does he agree that part of the advantage of having a Government-run GB Energy is that we will have greater control over supply chains, and whether slave labour is being used?”
“However, my issue with right to buy is that it did not replace the stock and led in part to the issue we have now. The other issue that Harlow faces—I am just throwing them all at the Minister now—is land banking. I take the hon. Member’s point about there not necessarily being a desire to land bank, although I think there is an element of that in Harlow. Finally—I said I would not speak for very long and I have managed six minutes, so apologies for that, Mrs Hobhouse—the housing crisis is without doubt one of the biggest crises this country faces. I absolutely welcome the Government’s attempt to tackle it, and I will do everything I can to support them to do so, because I have seen at first hand the impact that a lack of housing has on my community.”
“There is a need for social housing, given the increase in the cost of the private rented sector. Permitted development, which was a quick fix by the previous Government, has had a huge impact in Harlow. I echo the points that the hon. Member for Horsham made about housing conditions. He is right to champion new towns. Harlow is a fantastic new town—I am obviously proud to represent it, and I am proud of its sense of community—but one of the issues that new towns face is that things were built at the same time, so the houses need repair and wear out, almost, at the same time. I will never again defend anything that Margaret Thatcher did, but one thing I will say about the right to buy is that it allows housing stock to go into private ownership, so that repair is not then an issue for the council.”
“The new standard method includes consideration of the affordability ratio and average wages. I enjoyed the maths equation from the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds)—as he knows, maths is one of my favourite things to talk about. Will the Minister touch on how the method will help constituencies such as mine? I am concerned that the increase in the cost of private sector renting means that more and more people are reliant on social housing, so there is even greater need. I did not agree with the local authority’s decision to remove band 4. In Harlow, when there is an application for a council house or a homeless application, there are four bands: 1 to 4. The administration decided to remove band 4, which I opposed, mainly because I think it just pretends that the issue does not exist.”
“I recognise why that is the case, but for the person applying for housing—if they face homelessness, they may be suffering a huge amount of anxiety and mental health issues—it was not suitable. On the substantive point that the hon. Member for Horsham made about housing need and local allocation, there is cross-party agreement about the need to build council and social housing in Harlow, although there is a limit to the amount of housing we can provide. I often say that Harlow is a very small district, and it is very much built up to its borders, so would the Minister comment on how local government reorganisation will potentially impact that? I have regular conversations with the Conservative leader of Harlow council, and we both agree that we need to build housing, but Harlow is limited in where it can be.”
“Member for Horsham, I saw the reliance on the private rented sector. I have raised this issue a number of times, not because I think the previous Government had any malicious intent—absolutely not—but because when they raised the housing allowance of universal credit, it led to the private sector in Harlow raising rents, which ultimately meant that the state spent more money on benefits and it just went into landlords’ pockets. I ask the Minister to consider that point. Streets2Homes had the resource to do what local authorities often cannot: sit down with those making homeless applications and really get to the root of the problem. Clients often said to me that during the process of applying for council housing, they felt dehumanised. The lack of council housing meant that it often became a tick-box exercise for housing officers.”