David Chadwick
MP for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Q3. Two weeks ago, the news leaked that Powys teaching health board is considering taking the beds out of all but two community hospitals in Powys. Some 2,500 people have already signed my petition against those cuts.”
“The imposition of tariff barriers alone is not sufficient to address the shortcomings in our steel industry. The Minister said that it is important to provide more opportunities to help people buy British steel, but there is a difference between saying that and making it happen.”
“I am intervening because the hon. Lady mentioned Port Talbot. Last year, I met the Associated British Ports in Port Talbot. It raised concerns that the current rail link into the docks may not have the gauge needed for the large structures that will be brought in for assembly or to get freight out from the new freeport that will be create…”
“My constituency is home to the Sennybridge training area, an area of vital national importance that borders Merthyr Cynog. The military training area exists only because local farmers surrendered their farms for the national interest.”
“The Foreign Secretary will know that the ongoing violence continues to take a horrific toll on civilian populations across Lebanon, Gaza and the wider region.”
“Powys has no general hospital, so my constituents are dependent on access to English hospitals for the treatment and operations they need. However, last July, Powys teaching health board made the decision to extend waiting times for Powys patients awaiting operations, with the result that many have now been waiting years, often in agonisi…”
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“Its CEO, Charlie Nunn, received a total pay package of £7.4 million for 2025, and he is reportedly set up for a potential maximum payout of £17.7 million under a new performance-related pay policy proposed for 2026. There we have it: he will get a £10 million pay rise for closing bank branches across the country. Communities are being abandoned unnecessarily while banking profits are being prioritised.”
“After all, their profits are built on the money that customers entrust to them. We also need to ensure reliable access to cashpoints. An ATM that is frequently out of service is no access at all. Let us be clear: this situation is not inevitable. The major banks are making significant profits. They are benefiting from higher interest rates and, in many cases, generous tax arrangements. Yet at the same time, they are withdrawing services from the very communities that helped them to build those profits. In Powys, for example, a county that covers nearly a third of the land mass of Wales, there are no remaining Lloyds branches at all. That is an extraordinary withdrawal of service. Yet Lloyds made a £6.7 billion profit last year, which was up 12%.”
“The current model looks at whether there are 7,000 people within 1 km of a high street, but rural Wales does not work like that, and nor do many areas across the United Kingdom. Towns like Brecon, Hay, Llandrindod and Presteigne act as hubs for vast surrounding areas—villages and rural communities many miles beyond that arbitrary radius. The system therefore systematically underestimates need, and communities lose out as a result. Banking hubs are about more than convenience; they are also about inclusion. We still have significantly high levels of digital exclusion, particularly among older residents and in rural areas, where many struggle to get a mobile signal at home. Many people simply cannot manage their finances entirely online, and they should not be forced to. Banks should have a duty of care to their customers.”
“Yet, under the current rules, those towns must wait until the final bank closes before they can be considered for a banking hub. That forces us into a perverse situation in which communities have to lose everything before they qualify for any support. Why are we waiting for failure when we can clearly see it coming? In Pontardawe, residents have already been left without a bank. They are now forced to travel to Neath—a round trip by bus that can often take more than two hours. Again, that disproportionately affects older residents, those without cars and those on lower incomes. Financial access is becoming a postcode lottery. The fundamental problem is that the criteria for banking hubs are deeply flawed. They simply do not reflect how rural communities actually work.”
“In Presteigne, the situation is even more stark: the town has lost its bank branch entirely. The nearest alternative—this speaks to the point about long bus journeys—is now two hours and 40 minutes away by bus. This is a town with a large elderly population—people who are far less likely to bank online and far more reliant on face-to-face services. Those people are effectively being told that accessing their own money now requires a full day’s travel. That simply cannot be right. In Brecon and Llandrindod Wells—the largest towns in Brecknockshire and Radnorshire respectively—each town is now down to its last remaining bank. Those towns are key hubs for their counties, serving not just local residents but the wider Brecon Beacons and Radnorshire area, with a significant tourism and agricultural economy.”
“The issue here is whether people can withdraw their own money, whether small businesses can function, and whether elderly residents can manage their day-to-day lives. In rural Wales, access to cash and in-person banking is not a luxury; it is a necessity. Take Hay-on-Wye, an internationally renowned tourist destination and home to the Hay festival, with a thriving high street built on independent businesses. It is heavily cash dependent, particularly during the tourist season, yet it has no bank, and its only 24-hour ATM is routinely out of action, often for weeks at a time. What message does that send—a town that welcomes the world yet cannot guarantee access to cash for its own residents or its many visitors? That is not just inconvenient; it is economically damaging.”
“and gallant Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Cameron Thomas) spoke of the impact of closures on small towns and local economies. There is only one bank left in Tewkesbury; I am sure that is causing a huge inconvenience for his residents. Likewise, I agree with his call for the number of hubs to be increased. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (David Williams) spoke of Lloyds’ “computer says no” approach, and the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch (Katrina Murray) spoke about the community campaigns in her constituency and the impact of Santander’s closures. Across my constituency of Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, we are seeing a steady and deeply worrying erosion of access to basic banking services.”
“It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Western. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) for securing this vital debate. He represents a similar constituency to my own, with the additional challenge of some extra islands, and I was struck by some of the similarities in our experiences—particularly the dismissive attitude of Lloyds, which was mentioned by several Members. My hon. Friend spoke about the reliance on community bankers, which banks have provided as an alternative, but, similarly to him, I have found in my constituency that the locations in which they are offering those services are not up to scratch, and local residents do not feel comfortable with them. My hon. Friend also said that the FCA criteria need to be widened, a call that I certainly agree with. My hon.”
“While big banks are being rewarded, rural communities are being left behind and local businesses are being squeezed. That is not fair, balanced or sustainable. We need a reform of banking hub criteria to reflect rural geography, a proactive provision of hubs before the last bank closes, guaranteed access to free-to-use ATMs, and stronger obligations on banks to maintain services in underserved areas. Without intervention, the current trajectory is clear: more closures, further exclusion and more communities left behind.”
“My hon. Friend is quite right. Many of my constituents certainly would not say that Lloyds is by their side. That is why it comes down to the Government. They have to show that they are on the side of our constituents, not just of the big banks. Ultimately, this is a question of political choice. The Government can choose to stand up for rural communities and those reliant on in-person banking—which is all of us—or they can continue to allow this managed decline. Right now, the choices being made are the wrong ones. Labour has chosen to keep the tax breaks handed to the big banks by the previous Conservative Government and hinge its economic strategy on appeasing those same banks. At the same time, it is asking the small, often family-run businesses on our high streets to shoulder more of the burden to raise revenue.”
“The hon. Member says that banks do a very good job. Is he not aware of the numerous outages that Lloyds has had on its banking apps over the past couple of years and indeed the past couple of weeks? Those outages create a reliance on physical infrastructure for people to access cash if they need to. Does the hon. Member also agree that the banks can afford to pay for banking hubs? It is not the Government who should have to pay for them. Does he agree that banks have more than enough to cover the cost of these hubs?”
“Mine is the biggest constituency in England and Wales, and four or five towns in it sorely need a banking hub: Brecon and Presteigne are two such examples, beyond the hub that has already opened in Ystradgynlais. Does the Minister agree that there is a need for more than the 350 hubs that the Government have already committed to?”
“That lackadaisical approach means that the energy that should be created through offshore wind will not be added to the grid until the mid-2030s. The Government must hurry up and deliver on their promises to south Wales.”
“Skilled workers such as welders are leaving, and tarmac companies are struggling to make asphalt. Consumer spending is falling. People in south Wales are fed up with broken promises. South Wales was promised that the electric arc furnace would be up and running by 2027, but we are now told that it will be 2028. Can the Secretary of State update the House on that deadline? We need to see so much more urgency. Wales is desperate for the good jobs that the steel industry can provide. There is still—just about, if the Government move quickly—the opportunity to build a home-grown supply chain for the floating offshore wind sector. The Government have told me that they are not expecting to have that sector going until the mid-2030s. That is far too slow.”
“In 2024, Labour MPs across south Wales stood on a pledge to “save our steel”. They promised £2.5 billion for the steel industry, and they said that they had a plan. They began by saying that they would publish the steel strategy in spring 2025. Then it was autumn 2025, and now finally it arrives in spring 2026. We still do not know how much of that money will be spent in Wales. Will the Secretary of State confirm that to the House today? In the meantime, British steel production has continued falling, and thousands of jobs have been lost across south Wales since the blast furnaces were turned off. I am not really sure that Labour understands the damage that its party’s failures are having across south Wales. Wales feels abandoned. Steel is in our blood. It is the backbone of our economy. But we are still losing jobs.”
“The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech, and I agree with many of his points. Tackling the climate emergency is vital, but that does not mean that green energy companies should be allowed to do whatever they want. Does he share my concerns about the conduct of Bute Energy, a green energy company that has spent—at the very least—thousands of pounds on courting his colleagues in Cardiff?”
“Almost two thirds of homes across Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe are dependent on heating oil, the price of which is now surging thanks to Donald Trump’s decision to bomb Iran. Will the Chancellor reassure my constituents that help will be on the way from the Government?”
“Tourism is one of our key economic sectors in mid Wales. Last year, I visited Fforest Fields in Radnorshire, a beautiful campsite and family business that has been built up over generations. However, Bute Energy plans on building a wind farm on the other side of the hill from the site, with turbines that will be nearly as big as the Shard. Have the Government, or their colleagues in Cardiff, conducted any economic impact assessment on the damage that that will do to the economy in Powys?”
“Many graduates feel as if they are drowning in debt and that they were sold a promise—that a university education would help them to pay off their debts quickly—which has not come true. Their debts continue to mount. Will the Government consider scrapping the planned freeze of the repayment threshold?”
“As long as the Iranian regime exists, it will continue to pose a direct threat to our security, and to stability across the region, yet Cabinet Office figures show that non-official development assistance integrated security fund spending for the middle east is set to fall by a third in the coming years. Will the Prime Minister explain why funding to counter Iranian threats is being reduced, when those threats remain so acute?”
“Despite a spirited performance at the weekend, Welsh rugby is in crisis. Clubs are demanding a vote of no confidence, and supporters fear a stitch-up that wipes the Ospreys off the map, ending professional rugby in Swansea. Does the Secretary of State agree that the leadership of the Welsh Rugby Union has lost the confidence of the grassroots game, and should step aside?”
“Recent polling shows that only 36% of people in Wales think that devolution is worth it. Why is that? Why has Welsh devolution failed to improve outcomes? First, Wales should have powers equal to those of Scotland, because we are an equal nation and should be treated as such. The galling gap exists most obviously in the funding and powers made available for rail and those of the Crown estate. Until the Westminster Government acknowledge that Wales gets a raw deal, this constitutional question will rumble on, fanning the flames of populism and nationalism.”
“Wales is ready to move on from 27 years of failure and a century of Welsh Labour dominance. Labour’s failures in Wales represent the greatest failure in democratic governance anywhere in the world. Wales lies at the bottom of every British league table: it has the lowest education scores, the lowest wages and the longest waiting times. What explains this complete failure of democratic governance? Welsh politics has been too chummy, with people moving freely between journalism, public affairs and political parties. Wales has lacked proper scrutiny. It needs fresh thinking, which is why Wales needs Welsh Liberals. I wish to be clear: for over 100 years, Welsh Liberals fought for Home Rule, Cymru Fydd and a Welsh Parliament. Devolution is a sacred flame that we will follow, but the Labour party has done irreparable damage to it.”
“Take offshore wind: Wales has the coastline, the ports and the industrial skills to lead the renewable transition, but parts of the supply chains have now been built elsewhere, which means that Welsh companies will have to import steel to build the necessary parts. We should not be importing steel into Port Talbot—that defies all logic. The Government have given themselves a deadline of 2035 to get floating offshore wind ready. What are they waiting for? This sluggish attempt at industrial development is costing us jobs.”
“We need an abundance of welders to build the big infrastructure projects that we need on time and on budget, and therein lies the opportunity to tackle poverty and build the industries of the future. Let us get Welsh children welding. I support the Government’s aim of building supply chains and providing green jobs, but they must hurry up, because Wales is missing out. The tidal lagoon project in Swansea bay, which the Conservatives cancelled, would have created thousands of jobs, generated tons of green energy and given us an industrial lead. The Liberal Democrats agree with the Government that green industrial leadership is ours for the taking.”
“It was one rule for England and another for Wales. We were told during that debate that a steel strategy was forthcoming. In September last year, I asked the Government where it was. Their answer was that it would be published by the end of the year, but it still has not been published. Why not? How much money has been spent on shoring up the English steel industry in the meantime? Will the Government commit to spending that £2.5 billion in Wales? If they do not, our economy in south Wales will be in danger of withering away, and the anger that will follow will wash Labour Members away. They must fight their colleagues for that funding. There is huge demand for the skills that exist in south Wales, particularly around Neath Port Talbot. Welders are in big demand and can command six-figure salaries.”
“First, despite the low earnings of Welsh farmers being well known to anyone who knows anything about farming, the Government launched a tax raid on family farms. Secondly, they introduced a jobs tax and rateable value changes for pubs, restaurants and hospitality venues, prompting closures and lost jobs across Wales. Thirdly, there is the great betrayal of our steel industry. Before the general election, Welsh Labour MPs lined up in front of signs saying that they would “Save Our Steel.” They had a manifesto commitment to spend £2.5 billion on rebuilding our steel industry. Then they let the blast furnaces be turned off and said there was nothing that they could do. Yet months later, when the blast furnaces in Scunthorpe were under the same threat, Labour intervened and nationalised the steelworks.”
“I have pressed the Welsh Office and Welsh Government Ministers for a plan to end the pain, but it is clear that there is no plan. Denying healthcare to people who need it is a moral outrage. Growing our economy is how we can pay for the NHS that we need. Agriculture, heavy industry and tourism are key sectors of the Welsh economy. The Welsh economy is driven by small family-owned businesses, and I wish to emphasise this point: the best long-term approach to tackling poverty in Wales is to build an economy with good jobs. Businesses are allies in the war on poverty, not foes, yet rather than seeing those sectors as an asset, this Labour Government have all but declared war on them.”
“My predecessors, Richard Livsey and Roger Williams, fought to ensure that Powys patients could go to Hereford hospital for treatment. But last summer, faced with a mounting deficit that is now approaching £50 million, Powys teaching health board asked English hospitals to slow down treatment times for Powys patients. Waiting times for some procedures have now doubled. On Saturday I spoke to Dorothy Griffiths, who has been waiting since June 2024 for a knee replacement, and she is not alone. Patients who could have had hip or knee operations months ago have been left in pain because no one will take responsibility for ending this cruel policy. Nobody waiting for a knee replacement gets better with time, and the financial, physical and emotional costs will only mount.”
“Ten years on, our steel industry is on the brink of collapse, Welsh farmers are being undercut by lamb imports from Australia and New Zealand, and Welsh universities are cutting jobs. The Brexiteers cost us the last decade, and Reform cannot be trusted with the next. If this Government wish to see off the threat from Reform and restore some faith in democracy, they must do two things: first, fix our health care system, and secondly, grow the economy. I will start with healthcare. At the start of this Parliament, we were told that the two Labour Governments would work together. The Government said that they would use spare capacity in England to drive down waiting lists in Wales, and that proposal was welcome. Cross-border healthcare has long been an everyday reality for my constituents.”
“What happens to the spirit of democracy when people are not told the truth? It erodes trust, leading to populism. Last week, the Government sought headlines by saying that they were spending £14 billion on Welsh rail projects. Well, Labour knows, and we know, that they are not doing so. What did that announcement achieve, other than creating further distrust in politicians? This will be their legacy: a Wales that is so tired of broken promises that people have stopped tuning in or turning up. The Government are not the only ones who have broken their promises. The Brexiteers told Wales that leaving the European Union would save our steel industry, save Welsh farming and boost our international links.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution, and I am coming to that. Secondly, we need a Government with plans to empower people across Wales. Devolution was intended to bring power closer to people, but the Welsh Government has instead hoarded power in Cardiff. We need a Government in Wales who trust councillors and council officers to make their own decisions, without demanding that the Welsh Government sign off on minor changes to bus routes; a Government who do not try to hide behind a £2 million a year Future Generations Commissioner; and a Government who ensure that health boards are truly accountable to the people they serve. In short, to put things right, Wales needs more than just a change of Government; we need a change in the style of government. Most importantly, people need the truth from us—politics depends on it.”
“I would like to distance myself from my predecessor, who said in this place that “moving away from steelmaking would not have a direct impact on national security.” —[ Official Report , 31 January 2024; Vol. 744, c. 849.] I disagree, and I think it shows that the Conservatives do not understand Wales and never have done. Finally, the Welsh Liberal Democrats believe that the green transition must be a Welsh jobs strategy. That means anchoring supply chains here, and investing in steel capacity, heavy plate manufacturing and port infrastructure, so that Welsh communities benefit directly from the energy revolution happening off our shores.”
“It will be news to people in Port Talbot that the electric arc furnace is ready, because that is not what they are seeing on the ground. It is not ready. They were told it would be ready in 2027, but now we are hearing that will not happen until possibly 2028. This failure in industrial development is costing us jobs and damaging Welsh communities. I am glad that the hon. Lady mentioned the Crown Estate, because the Crown Estate should have been forced to prioritise domestic supply chains, as has happened in the Netherlands and Germany, in its offshore leasing rounds. That is why devolution of the Crown Estate matters. It must be held accountable for its actions in Wales, and for its utter failure to build Welsh supply chains using Welsh businesses.”
“Although these states might not be hostile in a geopolitical sense, hostile cyber-actors operating within their borders are none the less inflicting sustained harm and placing heavy burdens on our cyber-defence and law enforcement resources. I support the aims of new clause 2, but urge Ministers to ensure that the framework is flexible enough to capture not only hostile states but jurisdictions that consistently serve as bases for large-scale hostile cyber-activity. Data from the Cabinet Office shows that integrated security fund spending on Russia is set to fall over 20% between 2026 and 2029, which shows that the Government are not taking threats from Russia, or other hostile nations, seriously enough.”
“In 2025, the National Crime Agency worked in partnership with India’s Central Bureau of Investigation to raid an organised crime group in Uttar Pradesh, which had targeted more than 100 UK citizens with pop-ups stating that their devices had been compromised, losing them more than £390,000. That is not only an unacceptable financial loss for our citizens, but a significant waste of resources. In Nigeria, long-established cyber-criminal networks continue to conduct large-scale digital fraud campaigns aimed at overseas targets including the United Kingdom. Interpol’s Operation Serengeti in 2025 tackled high-impact cyber-crimes in Nigeria and 17 other nations, arresting 1,209 suspects and recovering nearly $100 million that had been stolen through cyber-fraud.”
“Threats do not arise solely from formally hostile states, but also from jurisdictions where hostile cyber-actors operate at scale, using digital infrastructure to target UK systems and citizens. We have seen that in countries such as India and Nigeria, where organised cyber-criminal networks have run sophisticated international operations against the UK, exploiting cloud services and telecommunications infrastructure. In India, law enforcement has dismantled major cyber-crime hubs linked to international targeting, including operations specifically affecting large numbers of British victims.”
“We have seen data from the Cabinet Office last week indicating that the Government plan to drastically reduce the integrated security fund spending on domestic cyber and tech to counter cyber-attacks. It will be cut from £113.3 million to £95 million by 2028-29, which is a reduction of 16%. Domestic spending to counter Russian threats in the same period will incur a drop of more than 20%. Those reductions leave us dangerously exposed and are in direct opposition to the Government’s promises to support the UK’s national security priorities. New clause 2 offers the chance to identify and monitor state actors that pose a threat to UK cyber-security. The register must also reflect the evolving nature of cyber-risk.”
“In our previous sitting, the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge set out clearly the cyber-threat posed by China, and argued that, through new clause 2, China should be explicitly recognised as a foreign power presenting a significant risk to the United Kingdom. He rightly highlighted the precedent in UK legislation for maintaining registers of hostile or high-risk state actors to protect national security. I agree that Parliament should be unequivocal in recognising the Chinese Communist party as a strategic cyber-threat, particularly given evidence of state-linked cyber-espionage, infrastructure compromise and the targeting of critical national infrastructure.”
“Laws work only if the people enforcing them have the time, money, expertise and systems to do so properly. The scale of the challenge is already clear. Research from ISC2 shows that 88% of organisations that have suffered cyber-incidents link those breaches directly to skills shortages. If regulators themselves face similar skills or operational shortages, enforcement will be slow, inconsistent and ultimately ineffective, and may leave businesses facing uncertainty about what is required of them. The new clause would help to ensure that issues are identified early and addressed proactively, rather than after a major cyber-security incident exposes weaknesses in our regulatory system. For this legislation to work, it requires fully funded and effective regulators. That is why I will press the new clause to a vote.”
“Cyber-resilience cannot be achieved through legislation alone, poor and weak though this piece of legislation is; it must be delivered by regulators with properly trained staff, clear guidance and sustained investment in enforcement and oversight. Without that foundation, even the strongest legal framework risks becoming ineffective. The new clause would create a vital statutory reality check. It would require the Secretary of State within one year of the Act coming into force to consult with regulators and regulated organisations, and report to Parliament on whether the regulatory system is equipped to function under the new rules. The new clause asks a simple but essential question: do the bodies responsible for protecting our critical digital infrastructure have the people, funding, tools and skills that they need to succeed?”
“I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. The purpose of new clause 10 is to ensure that regulatory authorities and regulated persons have adequate resources and capabilities to carry out their responsibilities. Fundamentally, this is a question of state capacity. Surely it is hard to disagree with that statement. We can pass legislation in this House, but if the regulators tasked with enforcing that legislation lack the resources and capabilities to fulfil their duties, and if the businesses subject to the new requirements lack clarity about what is required of them, the Bill will remain little more than words on a page.”
“In fact, those professionals from within the industry told us that they desperately need this to happen to make sure that they can do the job that the Government are asking of them. ISACA, an organisation that I remember looking up to when I was working in cyber-security, has said that it supports both our new clauses.”
“New clauses 16 and 17 work in tandem to align the Bill with best practice among our European neighbours, introducing measures that would strengthen ongoing oversight and enhance preparation, therefore improving the UK’s cyber-resilience before incidents occur. New clause 16 would make cyber-resilience a core responsibility of organisational leadership. It would require boards to oversee security arrangements, approve risk management approaches, satisfy themselves that protections are working on an ongoing basis and, importantly, be accountable. Numerous witnesses that we have spoken to over the past month told us that cyber-security deserves the most senior level of oversight.”
“The European Union’s NIS2 framework explicitly places cyber accountability at senior management level, and makes the same demands of board oversight in these areas. That is why it is confusing again to see the Government diverging from that framework without a clear explanation of why. It is not clear why the UK should be settling for less. Why have the Government taken that out?”
“All we are saying with our new clause is that boards need to be held accountable for the cyber-risk that they pose, and that making boards responsible for that obligation helps the cyber-security professionals responsible for securing those organisations to do their jobs properly. ISACA has 8,000 members. They are the people who will be carrying out this work. Surely, we should listen to them when they tell us that this is what they need. It was not just one organisation that told us that either. Boards have an obligation to oversee financial risk, for which they need financial literacy. Cyber-risk deserves the same treatment. Importantly, this would bring the UK into line with international best practice.”
“One of the measures that the new clause would introduce is a requirement for board members to receive education. Clearly, it is necessary for boards to understand cyber-security risk, and the new clause is about putting that into legislation. Board accountability is the cornerstone of corporate governance. Corporate governance is one of the reasons for the Bill. We have seen drastic failures in corporate governance across the UK in numerous sectors. Financial services, historically, is one sector that corporate governance has completely failed in, yet the Conservatives continued to support it with tax cuts.”
“I think this once more comes down to state capacity and how we see the state’s role. Clearly there needs to be an expansion of the state’s powers—that is why the Bill was introduced—to mandate in writing various requirements of the companies that provide the critical infrastructure upon which our country relies. The hon. Member will remember the numerous witnesses who told us that board accountability was crucial. Some told us that in public and some in private. They are the people who are doing this job, and whom the Government are asking to do this job. That is why we should listen to them and why we will press the new clauses to a vote.”
“Is the Minister aware that the financial services industry is required to conduct regular testing of its systems, and that sectors like aviation and nuclear have designated individuals in their security organisations who are responsible for overseeing those sorts of practices?”
“During the evidence sessions, numerous very knowledgeable witnesses called for these new clauses, so I will push them both to a vote. Question put , That the clause be read a Second time.”