Katrina Murray
MP for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch · Labour · United Kingdom
“My very first experience of employment was waiting at a van to try to get a day’s work, cash in hand, at the berries, which was what people usually did when they were aged 13 or 14 and looked a wee bit older.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. New cases are still coming into my office, with tales of failure to get through on the telephone or a lack of online access. They remain common, but most common is the financial distress. My case team keep hearing about people who are about to lose their house.”
“Protecting our interests in the High North depends not only on our armed forces, but on a resilient defence industrial base. Constituencies such as mine are home to highly skilled defence and engineering businesses that play an important role in supporting our national security.”
“I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as co-chair of the Unison group of Labour MPs. For too long, many workers have been expected to keep themselves available for work without any certainty over the hours or income that they would receive. The right to guaranteed hours was designed to change that.”
“Before my time in this place, I lived this issue. When the Assembly collapsed in 2022, health workers in Northern Ireland received no pay increase because there was no functioning Executive able to implement the recommendations of the independent pay review body. The eventual award had to be backdated at the end of the financial year.”
“It was unfair on staff, inefficient for employers, and, ultimately, patients paid the price when public services could not plan with certainty. This was not a one-off. It has happened four times in the past five years, regardless of whether or not Stormont has been sitting. I know that the hon.”
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“Again, I thank my hon. Friend for the work done on the report. Building on the question from the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), does the report highlight the importance of ensuring that we have ECHR-compliant processes in place if we want to ensure that there is full buy-in from the institutions in the Republic of Ireland in being able to answer the questions that victims and families need them to answer?”
“Does the Secretary of State agree that Scotland cannot meet its long-term energy security and net zero goals without new nuclear power, and that the University of Strathclyde’s internationally recognised power networks demonstration centre, whose expertise in grid integration and systems resilience is world leading, will be essential for the safe and effective deployment of next-gen nuclear technologies across Scotland?”
“T4. There is a higher prevalence of multiple sclerosis in Scotland than in any other part of the UK. What steps is the Department taking to ensure that people living with MS can access both a timely diagnosis and equitable specialist care, regardless of where they live in the UK?”
“The other part of this legislation that commends it is the fact that it recognises that if Scotland is a village, Northern Ireland is an even smaller one, and everybody is interrelated. The Bill builds on the best aspects of Operation Kenova, which is one of the big strengths in making it work. Like any piece of legislation, the Bill is not perfect, but it is a necessary and long-overdue step in the right direction. For the sake of those victims, survivors and families, we cannot afford to get it wrong.”
“I welcome this Bill, because it puts families at its heart. It recognises that the victims and survivors are the people this legislation must serve. It recognises that members of the security forces are also victims and survivors. It builds into the process the need to reflect and to stay engaged with those families. Across the board, those experiences have not necessarily been good. Where there have been inquests, they have been nothing more than tick-box exercises. They spoke to us, and we heard of anger, frustration and despair. It was the first time we had heard those stories, but it was not the first time that they had told them, because they have been saying it for decades upon decades in the hope of change. I thank every single one of them for sharing those stories with us.”
“In the Select Committee inquiry, it did not matter who we spoke to among victims, survivors and families, because the message was the same. They told us about their loved ones and the brutal ways in which their lives had been taken, and they told us again and again that they wanted legislation that respected them, treated them with dignity and took them seriously. They wanted answers, and the previous Government’s legacy Act did not deliver that. It rode roughshod over the wishes of families, victims and survivors. It made promises to the armed forces that it could never deliver, and the mechanism that it created, despite the intentions of all the people working within it, inspired little confidence that families would be treated with the dignity and seriousness that they deserved.”
“I have known about the military deaths for a long time. They were one of the first things that I found out about as I became a candidate. I discovered the other one when we met families as part of a Select Committee visit to Belfast. One of the family members we met said, “I know your area. I spent summers there. My cousin lives in Kirkintilloch.” It reminded me of exactly how strong the links are between my part of the world and Ireland. With a name like mine, I should recognise that there is a strong connection, but we are completely intertwined. It means that we know those families who lost loved ones during the troubles. We know the lack of answers that they have had, and the grief that still endures and is still raw.”
“Kilsyth war memorial bears the names of the men of the town who lost their life in foreign wars—men whose service we recognise and remember every year on VE Day, VJ Day and Remembrance Sunday. On one face of that memorial sits a single, solitary name—a name set apart. The difference between that name and the others is stark. This son of Kilsyth also lost his life in the service of his country, but in his case he was killed by the Provisional IRA. In a town where his family still live and where his school friends are marking their significant birthdays, his name on that memorial is a reminder that his life, and the ultimate sacrifice that he made, will not be forgotten. Just 2 miles down the road live another family. They, too, lost a loved one—a cousin, killed in an ambush by loyalist paramilitaries in the ’90s.”
“Some 53 years after the events of Bloody Sunday, and 15 years after the report of the Saville inquiry, it is becoming clear that future criminal cases will be few and far between, but every single day, this issue sits with the families who have lost loved ones. It affects every day of their lives, be they the families of military personnel or of those who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. What assurances can the Secretary of State give that they will remain absolutely central to this work, going forward?”
“Cumbernauld theatre in my constituency is a modern, thriving community venue, but it faces closure after Creative Scotland refused it multi-year funding. The trust is fundraising for the £300,000 needed by mid-December to keep the venue open, but the Scottish Government could still step in and save it. Community theatres matter for inclusion; theatre is not just about cities. May we have a debate on the importance of local theatre, and the need for investment in the arts?”
“Last week I had the pleasure of meeting the general manager of one of the major supermarkets in my constituency. We talked about our memories of the early days of the covid pandemic, with the rows and rows of empty shelves. All pandemic planning should build on the lessons learned from the last one, so what role is the retail and logistics sector playing in that?”
“There are many factors that make family farms viable, including the ability to work the land and carry out what is a very physically demanding job. Does the Minister agree that tackling the fundamental problems in our NHS and the growing waiting lists in Scotland must be a priority when balancing competing pressures, given that poor access to healthcare disproportionately affects those working in Scotland’s farming and rural constituencies?”
“It is shocking that in NHS Lanarkshire alone, more people have waited over two years for treatment than in the entirety of England.”
“We wanted decisions about Scotland’s schools, hospitals and communities to be made by a Parliament rooted in Scotland but still part of the wider United Kingdom. It was about giving Scots a stronger voice within our Union, bringing democracy closer to the people, improving accountability and delivering better government. It was also about pooling and sharing and being grown-ups. For a time, that promise felt real. It felt good. But the promise has been squandered. Even with extra powers over the years and a record £52 billion settlement this year from the Labour Government at Westminster, the SNP Scottish Government have failed to make devolution work for the people it was created to serve. I look at my own constituency and the evidence is stark. Many of my constituents are still languishing on NHS waiting lists.”
“I commend the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) for securing this important debate. Before devolution, Scotland-specific Bills in this place were few and far between—often single digits per year—even though our health, education and legal systems have been completely different for centuries. Decisions that shaped people’s lives in Scotland were made elsewhere, without the understanding or accountability that they deserved. That is why so many of us, myself included, campaigned passionately for devolution. Like others in the Chamber, my belief in devolution was forged in the 90s in the run up to the ’97 referendum. My memories of the campaign, polling day and result will be with me for the rest of my life. The feeling of hope that we had will also stay with me for the rest of my life.”
“The situation within the health service was highlighted several weeks in a women’s lowland league football match in my constituency, when a Linlithgow Rose player who was injured during a match with Cumbernauld United Ladies lay with a broken leg for five hours on a Sunday while waiting for an ambulance to be dispatched.”
“I refer the hon. Gentleman to my life experience before coming to this place as a member of staff within the health service. I worked through the pandemic when we used the red, amber and green statuses to indicate how waiting lists were. We did not just have red, amber and green stages. We created a purple status for when there were serious capacity issues that warranted more than a red status. We then moved to black status if it got too serious for status purple. One of the reasons I am in this place is the 14 months that I worked with colleagues through that. Nobody who is trying to provide healthcare should have to do so when working in situations that go way beyond an emergency.”
“We face a clear choice: do we keep circling the constitutional cul-de-sac that the SNP have led us down or do we choose to move forward with the strongest devolution settlement and a new direction for Scotland?”
“Members disagreed— often strongly—but they shared a common purpose to make Scotland fairer, healthier and more prosperous. They passed legislation; as we have heard, some of it was groundbreaking. That is the spirit that Scotland needs again. The need for change is clear. Scotland is full of ambition, potential and opportunity. We have world-leading businesses, unique natural resources and global brands that command respect across the world. We are world leaders in renewable technology and home to cutting-edge scientific and tech institutions and renowned research-intensive universities. We need a Scottish Government who share the same hopes and aspirations for the future as we do on the Labour Benches to make devolution work and to take full advantage of everything Scotland has going for it.”
“My constituents know too well the threat that fire poses from the serious fire at Blairlinn industrial estate that injured six people and the destruction by fire of the iconic St Mungo’s church: a listed building and landmark seen from across the constituency that is now gone. That is a failing of scrutiny and a failure of priorities. The SNP Government are distracted. They are more interested in constitutional division than in fixing the problems that our communities face. The Labour Government have delivered record investment for Scotland’s public services, but ask anyone on the ground—no one can see what the SNP has done with the money. I remember the hope of 1999 when the Scottish Parliament was first elected. It was full of passion, full of debate and full of co-operation.”
“NHS staff in Scotland pay higher rates of income tax and significantly higher rates of pension contributions, so the take-home pay of an NHS band 6 nurse in Scotland is not necessarily different from a band 6 nurse in England. The problems do not end with health. Across Scotland, the fire and rescue service is consulting on cuts that firefighters, their unions and the public fear will cost lives. The service faces a capital backlog of £800 million. That is not just a Government asleep at the wheel but one who are failing to protect one of our most vital public services.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. Certainly, the experience was that the Scottish Government were good at setting targets but never good at making sure those targets were met. I see the toll of that every week, with people living in pain, losing mobility and struggling with their mental health. They look at the improving picture south of the border and ask, “How much longer do we have to wait?” What they are hearing is, “Actually, this crisis is business as usual.” NHS staff are being failed by the very system that devolution was meant to strengthen. [ Interruption. ] I heard a heckle from a sedentary position.”
“Many leisure centres, such as the Tryst in Cumbernauld, which was built and opened in 1973, are desperate to decarbonise, but face huge costs and the practical challenge of retrofitting renewable technologies into older buildings. Will my right hon. Friend set out how Great British Energy will support vital community facilities of that kind in making the switch to clean energy, and in reducing their bills?”
“I welcome the statement and the progress made by both this Government and the Government of the Republic of Ireland. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) said, we on the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee have heard of the heartbreak of many of those who lost loved ones over the course of the troubles, and regardless of the background of those loved ones, they deserve answers. The response we have consistently received is that Operation Kenova is an example of good practice—that many of those in the island of Ireland are too close to this matter, and bringing in suitably qualified individuals from other parts of the UK should be considered as part of any process. Can I ask the Secretary of State if that has been considered in the new Bill?”
“Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that very few cases end up in a tribunal, particularly at a point where all due process happens? Not all dismissals are unfair.”
“I spoke to a hospital catering worker in my constituency who was contracted to work 12 hours a week, but she regularly worked 36 hours a week. However, when she took annual leave, she was paid for 12 hours a week. Does the hon. Lady not think that this catering worker deserves the respect of actually being paid for the hours she works, and of having a contract for the hours she works?”
“I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development. Professional bodies are there to set the standards of the profession. Does the hon. Lady not recognise the conflict of interest that could arise from the professional body representing an employee at a disciplinary hearing when it has to uphold the standards of the profession?”
“I recently had the pleasure of visiting Stewart-Buchanan Gauges, a proud employee-owned business in my constituency that supplies high-quality gauges and valves to clients in more than 50 countries. It even provides gauges for the SpaceX shuttle, and it exemplifies the world-class small and medium-sized enterprises that drive our economy and support the defence sector. Will the Secretary of State outline what steps the Government are taking to ensure that firms such as Stewart-Buchanan Gauges are included in defence innovation initiatives and remain integral to UK supply chains?”
“T7. We have already highlighted the welcome investment in shipbuilding on the Clyde and the Forth, which clearly demonstrates the real benefit of being part of the Union. What assessment has the Minister made of other potential export deals? What steps is he taking to ensure that the Ministry of Defence takes up those opportunities?”
“Q13. My constituents have endured four major fires in recent months across our community, including one that caused the devastating destruction of Cumbernauld’s iconic St Mungo’s church, yet the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is consulting on downgrading Cumbernauld fire station, increasing response times and putting lives at risk. Will the Prime Minister make representations to the Scottish Government that they should not risk lives with cuts to our vital emergency services?”
“It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I am proud to be one of the vice-chairs of the all-party parliamentary group for the night time economy. Like all of us, it seems, I have been taking the opportunity to engage with all the hospitality businesses across my constituency and companies that form part of the supply chain. When I say talking to all of them, I mean the independents, the tied pubs, the breweries and the franchisees. What they are not talking to me about is wages. They are also not talking about staffing hours and contracts. Even after pushing from me, they are saying that while the national insurance increase is a concern, it does not even make it into their top 10 problems.”
“In conclusion, our hospitality industry is continually changing as our habits change. That is a good thing. The hospitality sector should fulfil a key role in our communities, which is way bigger than the blinkered ways outlined in the motion.”
“It was good to see the place so full, and I hope those who go to watch Chris Hoy’s Tour De 4 going through Kilsyth on Sunday make a point of visiting not just Urban Grind, but the Coachman, the Scarecrow or the Boathouse, because it is a circular economy; local businesses support other local businesses and make sure that they invest. When local businesses use hotels in the local community —the local independents—and do not bring people in from Glasgow, there is more chance of the local community benefiting. Everybody I spoke to talked about quality, a changing market and a more discerning customer. They said that a greater proportion of the business is about food and soft drinks than ever before, and that they had to work harder to get customers, but that when they did provide high quality and good value, they got loyalty.”
“Last weekend, as part of Scotland Loves Local Week, I was proud to join Kilsyth councillors Jean Jones and Heather Brannan-McVey in visiting the relatively newly owned Urban Grind coffee shop in Kilsyth. The owners Martin and Marie told me—over coffee—about their struggles in getting the facility open for business, getting the change of use from a vacant shop to a hospitality business, and the need to build a fence between the outside sitting area and the soft play area next door. But they also told me about their investment in a young workforce, who combine studying with working, and the importance of working with businesses in the area.”
“Those businesses talk to me about the vow of silence from the Scottish Government on business rates and about the need for certainty, but also about improving of planning processes; for the big breweries and pub landlords, the sheer amount of time that development takes means that it is easier to invest in other parts of the UK than in Scotland. Planning for a new-build hospitality business or a change of use takes years. Disproportionate cuts to local government planning services in ongoing Scottish Government budgets have had a wider effect across the whole sector. The hon. Member is probably right that the NICs issue is in the mix, but these matters are much more of an issue, certainly in my sector locally.”
“I respect the comment, but I had not heard it, because I have been looking at other things today. I am reflecting what businesses are telling me, and as I think the hon. Member will have found in his own constituency, they are talking to me about far more fundamental issues for the hospitality industry in Scotland. They have reminded me that hospitality businesses in Scotland are closing at twice the rate they are in the rest of the country, and that although there was investment in the hospitality sector in the Scottish budget for the current year, it was the first time that had happened. The Scottish Licensed Trade Association has expressed to me that the Scottish hospitality industry is starting off £200 million behind the rest of the country because of how the Scottish Government are reacting.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement today and for the recognition that a process that is supported by those people who should be at the heart of it is always difficult. We must take time to ensure that any inquiry has the faith of the people at the centre of it, because it will never be possible to do that again, as they have been failed too often. We have discussed before how child abuse and exploitation does not stop at Gretna. Will the Minister outline what engagement there has been with the devolved Administrations on how we can make this a truly national inquiry?”
“Does the hon. Gentleman agree that for many of the veterans who came back, the point at which they remembered and relived their experiences was later on in life, as they succumbed to dementia? They had to go through and relive the horrors of their war experiences at that time.”
“It began at the Southern General hospital in Glasgow, founded by Robert Rae, a Unison branch secretary and hospital porter, to help some of the lowest-paid NHS staff—the cleaners, porters and clerical workers—to access fair, affordable finance and build financial resilience through saving. The credit union has grown remarkably since then, with more than 24,000 members, including staff and their families across NHS Scotland and parts of the north of England. Its common bond extends down to Sheffield. It now employs 18 staff and is an inspiring example of how credit unions grow not only in scale, but in purpose, deepening their role in communities and the economy.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the role and future of credit unions. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Twigg. At the outset of this debate, I wish to place formally on the record that I am a long-standing member of the NHS credit union, an organisation I first joined as it was my workplace credit union. It provided me the opportunity to save directly from my salary before I ever had the chance to spend it. When I received a pay rise, I would increase my contributions. I remain a proud member today, now paying in by direct debit. IPSA, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, has not got quite as far as doing payroll deduction for credit unions. The NHS credit union is now one of the largest in Scotland, but it did not start that way.”
“Just 4% of adults hold a credit union savings account, compared with 25% in Northern Ireland and 73% in the Republic of Ireland. While membership is rising, the number of credit unions continues to fall. To thrive, credit unions need to modernise. Many want to expand their digital offer, working with fintech providers to offer budgeting apps and even current accounts, but innovation costs money. Small unions—especially those still run by volunteers—lack the capacity to upgrade systems or train staff. I welcome the Financial Services and Markets Act 2023, which gave unions more freedom to offer services such as hire purchase and insurance distribution, but more must follow. I support the proposals to allow investment in credit union service organisations, which could help unions to share IT, compliance and admin systems.”
“A superficial search of decisions of the ombudsman using “credit union” as a search term shows that it is the same credit union names that come up. For each case where a decision is listed, there are many more going through the process, with many cases being reopened, and it is an overwhelming burden for these small organisations to process them. This matters, because it introduces risk and cost into organisations that exist to serve, not to profit. It creates uncertainty, stifles growth and undermines the Government’s ambition to support the co-operative and mutual sector. I urge the Minister to engage with those concerns and ensure regulatory clarity that supports, rather than stifles, credit unions. Regulation is not the only challenge. Despite some growth, credit union penetration in Great Britain remains low.”
“Most notably, the Financial Ombudsman Service has begun applying the commercial lending standards known as the CONC—consumer credit sourcebook—rules to credit unions, despite the fact that they are exempt from those by law. The use of “good industry practice” by the ombudsman without transparency or a legislative basis has left credit unions exposed to a growing number of frivolous or opportunistic claims, often driven by predatory claims management companies. When credit unions have challenged that with the Financial Conduct Authority, they have been referred back to the ombudsman, creating a regulatory echo chamber that shuts down scrutiny and ignores the fact that the CONC was never intended for mutuals.”
“Over 70% of customers in the pilot were in the rented sector, either social housing or renting privately. As the UK Government’s own materials acknowledge, credit unions offer basic savings and loan services, but increasingly they do much more. Large credit unions such as the Glasgow credit union, which grew out of the Glasgow city council credit union, offer mortgages. They offer financial inclusion, especially for people who may not feel served or welcome in the commercial banking sector. They are not for profit, member-owned and designed to be run with communities, not over them. Despite all its strengths, the credit union sector faces significant headwinds. I will start with regulation. In recent conversations with the NHS credit union, a number of serious concerns were raised that are shared across the sector.”
“It is vital that we have an alternative to expensive credit, and credit unions have a strong role to play. When a household is financially vulnerable, one fault in their car or one failed fridge or freezer can be the difference between staying afloat and facing a downward spiral of increasingly costly credit. The resilience of having £1,000 in savings is the firewall that stops that spiral. We have often discussed the positive impact of no-interest loans. Credit unions can play a vital part in the design and delivery of a no-interest loan offer, providing an alternative to financially vulnerable households who cannot rely on commercial lending. Pilots by Fair4All Finance show notable success when it comes to meeting emergency costs for white goods, such as a broken-down fridge, cooker or other essential household appliance.”
“That closure reflects a wider challenge: some credit unions have scaled up and professionalised; others have struggled, in particular those volunteer-led credit unions serving working class and rural communities. In that unique community-based role, credit unions can offer a vital partnership to support underserved or excluded communities, whether they are excluded by poverty or by geography. All too often, we have heard Members raise the swathes of local bank branch closures in their constituencies. Mine has been particularly affected, as commercial lending evolves and the local footprint of lenders diminishes. Credit unions have to be on both sides of that bridge: at the forefront of innovation but still able to provide traditional, accessible services in the community.”
“My hon. Friend is reading ahead in my speech about some of the things that the Government could do to extend and support the sector. Before joining the NHS credit union, I was a regular visitor to my local community credit union—staffed entirely by volunteers—until I moved house and moved out of the common bond. For nearly 30 years, until it sadly folded in 2017, it was a source of savings and small loans for a community that was mostly cash based. It inhabited the premises that the Royal Bank of Scotland vacated when it closed the branch. Often, small community credit unions remain in places where commercial banks have pulled out.”
“But they are at risk from burdensome regulation, under-investment and a lack of understanding at the highest level of Government.”
“The Chancellor’s speech last night was very timely. Credit unions are particularly well placed to benefit thoroughly from that if they have support, and I hope the Minister will expand on that. We need to update the law in Northern Ireland so that the strength of the credit union movement there is able to match progress that has been made in GB. The perception that credit unions are the poor man’s bank is a harmful stereotype that limits the sector’s growth. Credit unions are for everyone and should be seen as an act not only of charity but of good sense. They are member-owned, community-rooted and democratic. This is finance as it should be. Credit unions are more than just lenders; they are educators, community builders and the agents of financial justice.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his helpful intervention. We need a joined-up approach to our support for the sector’s unique role. We must particularly support small credit unions with few staff members who are predominantly volunteers, because when it gets too much, volunteers may move away and services may close. We need regulatory reform, but we also need practical backing so that credit unions can modernise, merge where appropriate and scale sustainably. I repeat my call to the Minister: please investigate the regulatory ambiguity that credit unions face, and particularly the application of the CONC by the Financial Ombudsman Service. I ask him to please consider measures to strengthen, not weaken, one of the most community-focused financial tools that we have. Let us not allow credit unions to wither on the vine.”