Robin Swann
MP for South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“More importantly, it is practical and evidence-based and deserves to be tested rather than dismissed. The incoming Prime Minister talks of more devolution. Here is an opportunity for the Minister to put such a case in front of him.”
“Hospitality is one of the largest employers of our young people, and it provides opportunities for people entering the workforce, developing skills or returning to employment. Protecting hospitality means protecting livelihoods in every constituency across our country. Thirdly, it would strengthen tourism.”
“Indeed, article 8 of the Northern Ireland protocol specifically envisages a situation where VAT arrangements may diverge to address competitive imbalances with the Republic of Ireland, which is the case here. The legal route, the economic case and the practical mechanism exist. What is required now is the political will to act.”
“It is especially striking that the United Kingdom’s 20% VAT rate for hospitality is increasingly an outlier across Europe. France applies 10%, Italy 10%, Croatia 13% and Germany is moving towards a reduced hospitality rate.”
“This is a request not for special treatment but for fairness, economic common sense and the opportunity to test a policy that could strengthen businesses, protect jobs and support communities across every part of Northern Ireland while providing valuable evidence for policymakers across the United Kingdom.”
“I agreed with the hon. Member until his last point. The McKeever group owns the hotel in which he was married. I had my wedding reception at the group’s Dunsilly hotel, and it is just celebrating the 40th anniversary— [ Interruption. ] Of the hotel, not my marriage, just to be clear to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).”
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“Businesses have faced a perfect storm of rising energy costs, inflation, increased national insurance contributions, increases in the minimum wage and a continuing cost of living crisis that is reducing the disposable income of their customers. Many businesses that I have met in my South Antrim constituency, from the Stone Hound in Antrim town to Brown’s Coffee in Ballyclare, the McKeever group of seven hotels and many more businesses that I do not have time to mention are being forced to make difficult decisions.”
“This is a request not for special treatment but for fairness, economic common sense and the opportunity to test a policy that could strengthen businesses, protect jobs and support communities across every part of Northern Ireland while providing valuable evidence for policymakers across the United Kingdom. Hospitality is one of our most important industries in Northern Ireland. It contributes approximately £1.4 billion to our economy in gross value added, accounts for 2.5% of our economic activity and supports roughly 50,000 jobs. Those are not simply statistics; they represent family businesses, local employers, tourism operators, cafés, restaurants, hotels, pubs and food-to-go outlets. They are the very lifeblood of our towns, villages and cities, yet the sector is under immense pressure.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the potential merits of a VAT reduction pilot for hospitality businesses in Northern Ireland. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of a pilot scheme to reduce VAT for the hospitality and food sectors in Northern Ireland. This proposal enjoys support from across the political spectrum and the commercial sector. It has the backing of businesses, Hospitality Ulster, the Northern Ireland Food To Go Association, Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive, Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Assembly’s all-party group on food to go, of which my party colleagues John Stewart and Diana Armstrong are both officers.”
“I agreed with the hon. Member until his last point. The McKeever group owns the hotel in which he was married. I had my wedding reception at the group’s Dunsilly hotel, and it is just celebrating the 40th anniversary— [ Interruption. ] Of the hotel, not my marriage, just to be clear to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). The group is being forced to make difficult decisions, looking at staff numbers, reducing opening hours and stalling or even cancelling investment plans. It is simply fighting to survive. The Northern Ireland Food To Go Association has told me that over 200 of its businesses have closed in 2026 to date, but Northern Ireland faces an additional challenge that does not exist elsewhere in the United Kingdom, as we share a land border with another jurisdiction.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising that point, because we do share a land border with another jurisdiction. In the Republic of Ireland, hospitality businesses already benefit from a significantly lower VAT rate of 13.5%, but the Irish Government have gone further by moving towards a 9% rate for food-led hospitality, as he said. That creates a clear competitive imbalance.”
“More importantly, it is practical and evidence-based and deserves to be tested rather than dismissed. The incoming Prime Minister talks of more devolution. Here is an opportunity for the Minister to put such a case in front of him. The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee has opened an evidence call for an inquiry on this subject, so it will not go away at the close of this debate. I therefore urge the Government and the Treasury to work with the Northern Ireland Executive, industry representatives and local businesses to establish a reduced VAT pilot for hospitality businesses in Northern Ireland. Let us give this vital sector a fair chance to compete, protect jobs and investment, strengthen our tourism offering and demonstrate that creative economic policy can help to unlock Northern Ireland’s full economic potential.”
“What is the cost of investment leaving Northern Ireland? What is the cost of allowing a widening competitive gap between businesses north and south of the border? Those questions deserve answers, and a Northern Ireland pilot would provide them. Northern Ireland has often been described as unique. In this case, our unique circumstances provide a unique opportunity. We have a clearly defined geographical market, face a distinct cross-border competitive challenge and have an obvious comparator in the Republic of Ireland. That makes Northern Ireland the ideal test bed for a hospitality VAT pilot. If successful, the lessons learned could inform policy across the wider United Kingdom. This proposal is pro-business, pro-worker, pro-tourism and pro-growth.”
“Indeed, article 8 of the Northern Ireland protocol specifically envisages a situation where VAT arrangements may diverge to address competitive imbalances with the Republic of Ireland, which is the case here. The legal route, the economic case and the practical mechanism exist. What is required now is the political will to act. Of course, we have to be honest about the challenges. A reduction of VAT would have an up-front fiscal cost. The purpose of such a pilot is to measure whether increased economic activity could offset some or all of that additional revenue loss over time through growth, investment and employment. The question before us is not whether there is a cost, but whether the cost of doing nothing is greater. What is the cost of businesses closing? What is the cost of jobs being lost?”
“Hospitality businesses create footfall, bring people into town centres and occupy premises that might otherwise stand vacant. Every restaurant, café or takeaway that survives and prospers contributes to the wider vitality of our communities. However, there is another important question: can this be done legally? The answer is yes. Too often, discussions about Northern Ireland are dominated by what cannot be done because of the protocol or Windsor framework. On this occasion, the legal advice is clear that neither the VAT provisions that apply to Northern Ireland nor state aid considerations would prevent the UK Government from introducing a reduced VAT pilot for the hospitality sector in Northern Ireland.”
“Hospitality is one of the largest employers of our young people, and it provides opportunities for people entering the workforce, developing skills or returning to employment. Protecting hospitality means protecting livelihoods in every constituency across our country. Thirdly, it would strengthen tourism. Visitors do not separate hotels, restaurants, cafés and attractions from their overall experience of Northern Ireland, so a more competitive hospitality sector would help to create a stronger visitor economy. Recent successes in attracting major international events have demonstrated Northern Ireland’s potential to attract visitors and generate significant economic returns, and a more competitive VAT regime would build on that success. Fourthly, it would support our high streets and local communities.”
“It would allow the Treasury to assess whether a reduced rate increases economic activity, protects employment, boosts tourism and stimulates wider tax revenues through income tax, national insurance contributions and corporation tax. The advantages could be substantial. First, it would help businesses remain viable. For many hospitality operators, a VAT reduction would improve margins at a time when costs are rising dramatically. Some businesses would pass savings directly to customers through lower prices, while others may reinvest those savings into staffing, wages, training or expansion. Either way, the money would remain within the real economy. Secondly, it would support jobs.”
“It is especially striking that the United Kingdom’s 20% VAT rate for hospitality is increasingly an outlier across Europe. France applies 10%, Italy 10%, Croatia 13% and Germany is moving towards a reduced hospitality rate. Across Europe, Governments recognise hospitality as a strategically important sector deserving of support because of its role in employment, tourism and local economic development. The question we are asking the Government is simple: if other countries are using VAT policy to support growth, jobs and investment, why are they unwilling to even test whether such an approach could work in Northern Ireland? That is why the proposal for a Northern Ireland VAT pilot is so compelling. A pilot is not a permanent commitment or a leap in the dark; it is evidence-driven policymaking.”
“I agree with the hon. Member. That is why many representative organisations think that VAT reduction would be a key enabler. It would not solve all those problems, but it would definitely help. With regard to the cross-border imbalance, a family deciding where to spend their money, a couple booking a wedding reception, an organisation booking an event or a visitor choosing accommodation is increasingly influenced by price. Businesses on the other side of the border enjoy a tax advantage that can amount to tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds each year, depending on their size. The result is obvious. Northern Ireland businesses are competing with one hand tied behind their back, and the problem is about to get worse unless action is taken.”
“In his first answer, the Secretary of State said that the recent disorder was a problem that needed to be solved. A fortnight ago, I arranged a roundtable in my constituency that included the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, the police, the Executive Office, the Department for Communities and many other organisations and representative organisations, including the Black Diamond Initiatives. It was apparent that they all had their strategies and their procedures, but what they did not have was a co-ordinated response. They were all looking to the Executive to pull all those organisations together. If dysfunction at the top of our Executive is not allowing that to happen, what actions will the Secretary of State take?”
“We should remember that this change will have an effect across all the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. A Northern Ireland coastguard rescue officer contacted me to say: “I am not writing out of personal financial interest” but “because I care deeply about the future of a service that has protected lives for generations”. Does the hon. Member agree that their voices need to be heard?”
“I will take the Minister up on that offer. I wrote to him asking him to meet companies in South Antrim over two weeks ago and I am still waiting on a response to that. In his initial response, he said that the TSS and HMRC are able to support Northern Ireland companies with advice and guidance. Will he assure the House and Northern Ireland companies that they will know what they are talking about? Up until now, they have been found lacking.”
“I recently met Voices for Impacts youth advisory group in Glengormley. Unfortunately, the funding for its youth centre has been cut to one night per week. What encouragement can the Secretary of State give those young people that the youth hubs he is talking about can be extended to Northern Ireland?”
“I congratulate the Chair on how she is raising the issue in this debate and how she has handled the legacy inquiry. Does she agree that there must be an answer to the concerns raised by the PSNI that it does not have any additional moneys to provide that information to the ICRIR with regard to legacy? There is also a funding issue there. Both the PSNI and the ICRIR have raised the issue of funding, saying that they are not being given the money to enable them to give the evidence they hold and manage to help the people who are waiting on those cases.”
“The right hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that, as there has not been a repetitive budget since 2016, any transformation or investment in health is always more challenging, and that is where the waiting lists are. Does he also acknowledge that that transformation funding is now there, and that the work being done by my party colleague, the present Minister of Health, Mike Nesbitt, is bringing those waiting lists down?”
“I thank the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for raising the matter. I was the Minister who commissioned the inquiry, and listening to the families and the individuals who were in Muckamore at that time was a harrowing experience. I want to put on the record my thanks to Tom Kark KC, who chaired the inquiry, for handling the inquiry and bringing forward the recommendations in an engaging and compassionate way. The health service, the trusts and the entire health family in Northern Ireland need to pay careful tribute to a number of those recommendations, and the hon. Lady made a good point that they contain learnings for health bodies, trusts and Departments across the United Kingdom.”
“The Minister said that the road map was not written in Whitehall and handed down, but it is an England-only document, despite Baroness Batters receiving submissions from Northern Ireland. All family farm structures in Northern Ireland are impacted by Treasury decisions, from the family farm tax to the cost of fuel. What engagement have the Government had with the devolved Governments to ensure that all UK farmers benefit and are supported?”
“In an earlier answer, the Minister ruled out a VAT reduction for hospitality businesses across the United Kingdom. Will he at least meet me, Hospitality Ulster and the Northern Ireland Food to Go Association to discuss the concept of a Northern Ireland-specific pilot?”
“Northern Ireland manufacturers—and, indeed, metal traders—who rely on those specialist grades, including stainless steel box section, are already impacted by EU tariffs, and the additional tariffs being imposed by the Government will have an adverse effect on those manufacturing sectors in Northern Ireland. What consideration will the Government give to them?”
“But we should also recognise the other things the Open University has done with regard to learning and education, including the “Green Planet” TV series, an environmental series co-produced with the BBC and narrated at that stage by Sir David Attenborough. In terms of the opportunities offered by the Open University, I think everybody in the Chamber will recognise that there are four Northern Ireland MPs here today—that is four out of 11 or, as one of my maths courses taught me, 0.3636 recurring, as the decimalisation of the representation here from Northern Ireland. The hon. Member for Southport talked about the value of the regions, and the Open University is greatly recognised and valued in Northern Ireland, because of its ability to deliver courses across the regions and across abilities as well.”
“There was always that panic when you pushed the send button at five minutes to midnight, hoping that your internet stayed connected until the tutor had received your full assignment. However, I do not go back to the times when members were setting video cassette recorders to record lectures on BBC Two at 2 am, as was necessary then. The hon. Member talked about the Open University giving students the ability to learn while they were working. It also instilled deep-seated personal management skills, because students had to meet deadlines, while maintaining a work-life balance and family interaction. It is right that we recognise that on this 60th anniversary of the “University of the Air”.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I thank and congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (Patrick Hurley) on securing this debate. I should also declare that I am a graduate and alumnus of the Open University, so I recognise many of those of its attributes that he mentioned. Unfortunately, I did not take the same speedy course that he did; in fact, it took me eight years to obtain my Bachelor of Science (Open), doing a 30-point level 1 to a 60-point level 3, with the odd 10-point thrown in in between—former graduates will know exactly what I am talking about. The hon. Member talked about the changes we have seen in the Open University. I started when everything was tutor-marked assessments, which meant you had to post them to my tutor, and I finished when everything had to be submitted over the internet.”
“It is right and timely that we contribute to this debate, because now is the time to invest in high-quality, flexible higher education. I also see a call there for the Northern Ireland Executive to introduce more flexible financial support for part-time students and to progress a higher education funding review to reform the higher education funding model. In that way, they can properly support lifelong learning at a time when Northern Ireland needs to grow skills, improve productivity and widen opportunity, and we can realise the full potential of the Open University and those who have not had the opportunity, as the hon. Member for Southport indicated, to access third-level education, which many employers are now looking for. It is with great pleasure that I support this motion.”
“At that point, we had 65 Open University undergraduate nursing places; currently, more than one third of Open University students in Northern Ireland are studying science, technology, engineering and maths subjects, and nearly 600 are training as nurses. One thing that was done was to allow people working as carers, but who did not have the opportunity to go to university to become nurses, to train in their workplace. What that did was bring a loyalty to many of the hospitals and wards, because people were being built up in the place they worked in and with the people they worked with. That was then able to be expanded into social work. The Open University was working with trusts and with our Department as well.”
“He did that with ambition and innovation and, above all, by always keeping people at the centre of it. We were grateful to John for all he brought to the university and that role. One of John’s phrases was that the Open University in Northern Ireland was one of its best kept secrets, because the Open University was in fact the third university in Northern Ireland. It was during that time—I suppose from being a graduate of it—that I recognised that ability, and we were able, when I was Health Minister, to bring the Open University together with career progression and skill shortages and to marry the two up.”
“I fully support the Member’s contribution. In fact, one in five Northern Ireland students is registered as having a disability. So the Open University opens up not just geographical and regional abilities but all abilities to lifelong learning. Other Members have spoken about Jennie Lee, but I would like to diverge at this point and to take the opportunity to pay tribute to another individual, John D’Arcy, who was the director of the Open University in Ireland. John served 16 years in that post and just recently retired. I was working with him and through him, and his promotion of the Open University was testament to how we were able to produce it and forward it in Northern Ireland. It was very much his skill, his interaction and his time there that shaped the Open University as a public service.”
“Reflecting on the contributions so far, it is also worth noting that the Open University supports the members of our British armed forces through its courses.”
“The Minister said that the defence investment plan will be published following a “line-by-line review”. It is obvious that the previous Secretary of State resigned because he could not review it downwards any further—because of the actions of the Treasury. The Minister also said that the plan is “scalable”. What assurances can he give that the spend is scalable upwards and not downwards, given that the Treasury has already said that it is unable and unwilling to fund it further?”
“As the father of two teenagers, and on behalf of other parents, can I thank and congratulate the Secretary of State on bringing forward this legislation? She has already said a number of times that children will find a workaround, but big tech will also always be looking for a workaround to the legislation and the rules that have been brought forward. Can she give us reassurance that the Government will remain agile, and will fund organisations that will ensure that this dangerous online activity does not flare up?”
“This morning the leader of my party spoke to the father of the victim, who has made a direct appeal to those who are spreading disinformation online to stop—and that includes the disinformation that his son has died. What steps can the Government take to support the family, including the father, in their asks?”
“The victim, Stephen Ogilvie, is a health service worker, a radiographer. Our health service across the United Kingdom, but especially in Northern Ireland, depends on many workers with many nationalities and from many communities. It was therefore abhorrent to see some of those health service workers being attacked last night by those contemplating and delivering violence. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that all authorities in Northern Ireland have the full support of this Government for any action that needs to be taken not only against those who are perpetrating the violence, but against those who are acting online to spread the hatred and the violence that we are now seeing?”
“The PSNI has incorporated the project into its long-term estates strategy and has established dedicated planning and consultation work to develop the site—it is already putting in the background work. While questions remain about funding and delivery, it is notable that the PSNI’s stated position is that Kinnegar offers a strategic opportunity to strengthen policing capability, professional standards and workforce development for decades to come. In that instance, I support the motion.”
“The proposal has evolved beyond a traditional training school and now includes plans for a broader policing and crime training campus. The PSNI sees the project as an opportunity to bring training, leadership development and specialist capabilities together in a single, modern location. As I said, the Chief Constable, Jon Boutcher, has linked the proposal directly to the long-standing ambition for a world-class police college in Northern Ireland, but the challenge is always around the financing and capital spend, where the police have always been under pressure. The new campus, intended to support increased recruitment and help to prepare future officers for the increasingly complex demands of modern policing, would be welcome.”
“If you have not viewed it yet, Sir Roger, I would recommend it to you—and to other Members and the House. When we look at the development and the challenge, they need that training. It is vital to make sure that they are properly equipped for every scenario, and that is what a centralised training college will provide. The site will provide a substantial footprint, capable of supporting not only recruit training, but a wider range of specialist policing functions. The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee heard recently from the Chief Constable and previous Chief Constables that the PSNI is unique as a police force because it has to supply most of those specialist officers itself; geographically, it does not have the ability to call in mutual aid from other forces.”
“The proposal for a new police college at Kinnegar seeks to deliver a vision first identified during the Patten reforms: a modern, purpose-built centre for police training and professional development. The acquisition of the former Kinnegar barracks site represents what we believe is the most significant step in a generation towards a new police training campus, and the development of our police officers that has been mentioned by the two previous speakers. When we see the dedication of our current police force, which the hon. Member for Strangford also mentioned, it would be remiss of me not to comment on the current TV series in Northern Ireland, “Peelers: The PSNI for Real”. It was developed by Stephen Nolan, and I think it has brought forward the real challenges as it follows the day-to-day experiences of our police officers.”
“Many of my colleagues present know that that was well put forward when they were Members of the Legislative Assembly. At that stage, the police service withdrew due to capital and financial pressures, but the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service went on and developed Desertcreat into a fantastic training facility, with many of the facilities that the hon. Member for North Down talks about. It could have been bigger, and it could have delivered cross-blue-lights services, but unfortunately that did not go ahead. The police service has purchased the land at the former barracks in Kinnegar to develop its own training site. This place should be seeking to support the development of that site at an early stage.”
“It was fantastic to visit and see at first hand the dedication in that unit—from the dog handlers to the trainers, those who look after the dogs in the kennels and the entire welfare section. They noted that Kinnegar, or PSNI Redburn as it will be known, will result in the closure of many such facilities across Northern Ireland. I understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from when he talks of centralisation. It also puts pressure on those people who will not work in remote training facilities. They will have to relocate, or their jobs will be in jeopardy. That should not take away, however, from the hope of a new training facility at PSNI Redburn. We always look back in Northern Ireland and reflect. Many years ago, there was an opportunity of a joint police and fire service college at Desertcreat.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I also congratulate the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) on bringing forward this motion. I also join him in his comments on the horrific attack in north Belfast. Comments were also made in the House earlier today, and I reinforce the call for calm. This debate is about the PSNI training facility at Kinnegar, but it should not be forgotten that in the past, our police were the frontline and suffered many attacks and many threats. That should not be the fallout of yesterday’s attack. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, there are many current police training facilities around Northern Ireland. I recently visited PSNI Steeple in my constituency, which looks after canine handling.”
“On the transformation funding, could the Minister clarify just how much the PSNI has got out of the pot he mentioned? I know that it has put in several bids.”
“I appreciate that it was Justice that received the money, but could the Minister clarify how much the PSNI actually received? When members of the Policing Board were in front of the Northern Affairs Committee, they informed us that they had made a number of specific bids through that pot.”
“The right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) described the incident as “medieval”. It was not just medieval: what we saw happen on the streets of the United Kingdom was pure evil. While tribute has been paid to those members of the general public who stepped in and the emergency services that responded, may I seek reassurance from the Secretary of State that those members of the general public who stepped in will be recognised and will not be persecuted or prosecuted for the actions they took in regard to attacking that individual? I encourage the Secretary of State to come forward and fill the vacuum of information, because he knows more than he is telling the House at this minute about this incident.”
“Transformation needs to be embedded through a recurrent budget. We are three months into this financial year, at Northern Ireland political speed, and we still do not have a recurrent budget. What steps is the Northern Ireland Office taking to bring about such a financial budget in Northern Ireland?”
“Northern Ireland is home to some innovative carbon capture businesses with real export potential, but many UK clean technologies face a gap between successful pilot innovation and that first commercial deployment. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that high-value opportunities can be scaled, thereby supporting jobs, investment and growth? Will the Secretary of State accept an invitation to visit Nuada?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for raising that. If I read the Bill right, schedule 8 allows the CQC to carry out investigations into Northern Ireland and Wales, whereas the CQC has no presence or remit within Northern Ireland, because health is devolved and those functions are carried out by the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority. Can the shadow Secretary of State comment on how the Secretary of State is now reaching into devolved matters in regards to regulation, quality, improvement and assessment?”
“I was at a recent evidence session of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, where John French, the chief executive of the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation, made it clear that if Northern Ireland was fully integrated with the GB energy market, we would see a 20% reduction in our electricity bills.”
“The Secretary of State says that the powers will increase skills in Northern Ireland, but they will not initially apply in Northern Ireland—in fact, they may never apply there because of the European partnership Bill. At this minute in time in the EU, the Commission will be looking at who it is going to be negotiating with. Is it going to be negotiating with the current Prime Minister or, in a few months’ time, will it be negotiating with a British Prime Minister who is probably more pro-EU than some on the European Commission themselves? Why would the Commission move now on the regulations that the European partnership Bill would bring about? Let us look at the implications for energy independence and strengthening our energy security.”