Robin Swann
MP for South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“More importantly, it is practical and evidence-based and deserves to be tested rather than dismissed. The incoming Prime Minister talks of more devolution. Here is an opportunity for the Minister to put such a case in front of him.”
“Hospitality is one of the largest employers of our young people, and it provides opportunities for people entering the workforce, developing skills or returning to employment. Protecting hospitality means protecting livelihoods in every constituency across our country. Thirdly, it would strengthen tourism.”
“Indeed, article 8 of the Northern Ireland protocol specifically envisages a situation where VAT arrangements may diverge to address competitive imbalances with the Republic of Ireland, which is the case here. The legal route, the economic case and the practical mechanism exist. What is required now is the political will to act.”
“It is especially striking that the United Kingdom’s 20% VAT rate for hospitality is increasingly an outlier across Europe. France applies 10%, Italy 10%, Croatia 13% and Germany is moving towards a reduced hospitality rate.”
“This is a request not for special treatment but for fairness, economic common sense and the opportunity to test a policy that could strengthen businesses, protect jobs and support communities across every part of Northern Ireland while providing valuable evidence for policymakers across the United Kingdom.”
“I agreed with the hon. Member until his last point. The McKeever group owns the hotel in which he was married. I had my wedding reception at the group’s Dunsilly hotel, and it is just celebrating the 40th anniversary— [ Interruption. ] Of the hotel, not my marriage, just to be clear to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).”
The complete record
Every one of 525 lines we hold for Robin Swann, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 9 of 11.
“The Secretary of State has repeated time and again what this statement is not about, but what it is about is this Government not listening to the WASPI women and this Government not listening to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. In the Secretary of State’s statement, she said she will “develop a detailed action plan out of the report”. Considering that the report missed two thirds of this, especially the financial redress scheme, what action plan is she developing?”
“I thank the hon. Member for giving way; she has been generous with her time. Does she realise that this is not just a problem in England, Scotland and Wales? It is a significant problem in Northern Ireland, where we have already seen a high number of GP practices returning their contracts. At this time when the solution was meant to be to move to multidisciplinary teams, the increase in national insurance contributions for GPs as employers is putting additional stress on their contracts, given the amount of money they are receiving from central Government. In Northern Ireland, 75% of our domiciliary care and home care is provided by private suppliers, and this additional cost will be added to them as well.”
“Member for Beverley and Holderness also made a point about the introduction of social care within the health service. We already have that in Northern Ireland, and 75% of the provision is done by the private sector. One thing this House needs to address, especially those on the Labour Benches, is that when we talk about private provision, they are not organisations making massive amounts of money. In my constituency they are often family-run social care practices that look after two or three homes. Nearly all nursing and residential care homes are privately owned too.”
“If we put the additional charges on our GPs, community pharmacies, opticians, domiciliary care providers and social care providers, that will come back, in a circular route, in how we fund our health service. On the specifics for Northern Ireland, we are looking to transform and modernise a health service that has been largely underfunded and under pressure for quite a number of years, and trying to exist on single-year budgets since 2016. We are doing that by introducing multidisciplinary teams, where a general practice has a psychologist and a social worker all within its practice. General practices are asking for that to be extended across Northern Ireland, but the increase in ENICs will increase wage bills and pressures on the pharmacies and general practices that have already taken that step. The right hon.”
“I want to pick up on a point raised, I think, by the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East (Joe Robertson). I have a lot of respect and sympathy for the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the right hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting). When he announced his 10-year plan for the national health service, there were three main platforms: to move from analogue to digital, to move from sickness to prevention, and to move from hospital to community. The increases to NICs for community-based health providers will put many of those services at risk and under pressure. This is where there is a disconnect between what the Government are trying to do and what they are actually going to do and achieve. I think that was the point described by the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart).”
“I will shorten my speech on your guidance, Ms Ghani. I encourage all Members of the House to follow the example of the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) and sign up to the Antrim Guardian —a very good local publication from my constituency that carries good articles. I rise to come back to the topic of the debate, employers’ national insurance contributions, because we have covered many subjects this afternoon. I support the amendments that look to alleviate the punishing implementation of, and increases to, employers’ NICs, especially for our family health service and social care providers. Unlike other speakers on the Opposition Benches who have looked to blame the Government for the increases, I do not think the Government are to blame. I think this is more about the Treasury than the whole Government.”
“When I was Minister of Health in Northern Ireland—for four years—I looked to the Dilnot report, and I tried to introduce parts of it there because of the differential that exists: in our system, health and social care services are the overall responsibility of the Department of Health. I know what point the hon. Member may have been trying to make, but I think he failed to make it directly in that intervention. The impact of not only the Dilnot recommendations but the introduction of employers’ national insurance contributions on those services would actually run counter to anything that Dilnot was recommending, because he was talking about a funded, integral part of domiciliary care as part of the health service, which we already have, but that would put pressure on our health services at the moment.”
“The urgent question asked about the extent of the United Front Works Department’s operations in the United Kingdom. What is the Minister’s assessment of that department’s work with, or within, the devolved Administrations?”
“The hon. Gentleman references Sir Jon Cunliffe, and I thank the Secretary of State for commissioning the review. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Sir Jon’s review should look across the United Kingdom, because Northern Ireland Water is both a Government-owned company and a non-departmental public body and I assure the House that the water quality in Northern Ireland, especially in Lough Neagh, is nothing to be celebrated either. Should not Sir Jon Cunliffe’s review look at how all bodies regulate their water systems, so they serve the public?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, which I welcome, both in its tone and the approach taken. I welcome that this indefinite ban will include Northern Ireland. I thank the Secretary of State and his predecessor for the collaborative approach they have taken with the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland. It is important for the House to note that the ban in Northern Ireland was supported by all the Northern Ireland Executive parties. In his statement, the Secretary of State talks about being able “to restrict the sale or supply of puberty blockers…through a prescription issued by…a prescriber registered outside the United Kingdom.” What steps will he take to close all those loopholes and avenues that would allow these drugs to be prescribed, recommended or supplied by online suppliers for under-18s?”
“I join the shadow Minister in seeking reassurance that the Minister is working with his counterparts in the Republic of Ireland. What we have seen in Northern Ireland is how easy it is to move physical assets of crime across the border. I would not like to see cryptoassets being able to be easily transferred into the Republic of Ireland and hidden there in a safer form. I also note that the explanatory memorandum states in paragraph 7.2 that “one enforcement agency sought clarity on the definitions in a different code on property, cryptoassets and wallets and also suggested where additional guidance could be added on storage and searches.” Can the Minister clarify whether that additional guidance has been provided to the agencies? It is vital that we get this right and tackle crime at its heart.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and I thank you for inviting me to speak on this statutory instrument. We will support the proposals, because any measure that puts more pressure on organised crime, criminal organisations and, indeed, paramilitary and terrorist organisations is a welcome step forward. I want to ask the Minister two questions about the order. Paragraph 6.3 of the explanatory memorandum says that the code will apply only to Northern Ireland, but I seek the Minister’s reassurance that although the code is specific to Northern Ireland it still comes under the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023 and that there will be similarities across all jurisdictions of the United Kingdom.”
“I thank the hon. and learned Member for introducing the Bill. At Prime Minister’s questions, I asked the Prime Minister about the general product safety regulation that will come into effect next Friday, which will force suppliers in constituencies across England, Scotland and Wales to increase bureaucracy and costs if they still want to supply Northern Ireland consumers and producers. Does he agree that it is absurd that we are putting additional costs on our internal UK market to facilitate the requirements of the European Union?”
“On that point—I see that Members are smiling; I am quite concerned about the attitude to the issue of some of those on the other Benches—a serious piece of work has been done with the European Union on the subject of continuing the supply of human medicines to Northern Ireland. The challenge is not in the legislation but in the fact that producers and suppliers must meet EU requirements for specific Northern Ireland labelling, which makes it not worth their while to supply items to Northern Ireland, with the result that some manufacturers are still not doing so.”
“Make no mistake about it, the protocol does not safeguard the Good Friday Agreement. It demolishes its central premise by removing the assurance that democratic consent is needed to make any change to the status of Northern Ireland. It embodies a number of constitutional changes that relate to Northern Ireland.””
“I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for introducing this Bill, and I acknowledge his recognition of the strengths of those protections in the Belfast agreement, which were built in by my party and especially by Lord Trimble, the former leader of the Ulster Unionist party and the crafter and political deliverer of unionism in support of the Belfast agreement at that time. He said: “I feel betrayed personally by the Northern Ireland Protocol, and it is also why the unionist population is so incensed at its imposition. The protocol rips the very heart out of the agreement, which I and they believed safeguarded Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom and ensured that democracy not violence, threat of violence or outside interference, would or could ever change that.”
“I thank the hon. Member for making that point. It looks like I will not get to make a speech, but I want to put on the record that the Ulster Unionist party actually campaigned to remain in the European Union. We thought it best at that point, because we foresaw exactly what is happening now. We respect the referendum of this United Kingdom, but we are now seeing the enabling of what we were concerned about because of the lack of interest in this House with regard to some of the regulations that are coming through and how they are applied to Northern Ireland. The hon. Member mentioned medicines. Yes, we have supply issues, which are global issues, but we also have additional supply issues because of regulation from the European Union.”
“It is not that I am unhappy, and I applaud the hon. Member for the tone he has brought to the debate in opposition to the Bill; it is that we want to see a resolution to these things. He talks about breaking agreements and when trust is removed, which brings me back to my intervention about the Belfast agreement and how Lord Trimble said that the protocol “demolishes the agreement’s central premise by removing the assurance that democratic consent is required to change Northern Ireland’s status.” I gently remind the hon. Member of that persuasion. I am also reminded of the contribution that Lady Sylvia Hermon made when she was in this place in challenging the former Deputy Prime Minister about the Belfast agreement. When he started to talk about it, she simply asked whether he had read it. I simply encourage any hon.”
“The hon. Member is countering what she said earlier about having read the Good Friday agreement. Obviously she has not understood it, because that cross-community consent has been central to the protections that were applied in the Belfast agreement at the start to ensure minority concerns are protected. That was the purpose of it. What she is saying in regard to the change from five to 10 on removing cross-community support and consent undermines the principles of the Belfast agreement, which my party paid so much for.”
“On the bovine TB agenda, does the hon. Member agree that what the recent Minister in Northern Ireland brought forward was a disappointment? There were no concrete proposals as to how to address the issue.”
“It would be reasonable to assume that by 2026, when the inheritance tax changes take effect, the average price will have increased to £15,000 an acre. Based on that information, farms in Northern Ireland with 67 acres of land will be affected by this tax grab.”
“He responded: “I am disappointed at the UK Government’s dismissal of the figures you quoted and the subsequent comment that our analysis that one third of farmers and up to 75% of dairy farmers will be affected by the new inheritance tax limitations as ‘alarmist’. I can assure you that these figures are based on a solid analytical basis…from data collected as part of the Northern Ireland Agricultural Census 2023.” I may have many differences with him, but I believe the Agriculture Minister in Northern Ireland over what I have heard from the Labour Government about how the tax will impact Northern Ireland farmers. A 2023 Irish Farmers Journal survey showed that the average price of agricultural land in Northern Ireland is £13,794 per acre.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I thank the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) for securing the debate. I want to take exception to language used by Government MPs here today and in the debate we had in the main Chamber on 11 November, when they accused anyone who raised genuine concern for family farms of being either in the pocket of big business or alarmist. I can assure you, Sir Roger, that the Members I know who have spoken here and those who spoke in the main Chamber on this issue did so out of genuine concern and understanding of the effects that this tax grab will have on our family farms. I was so concerned that I asked for clarity on the figures that I had used from the Northern Ireland Agriculture Minister.”
“Friday the 13th is a date associated with bad things happening. Next Friday, the European Union’s general product safety regulation will apply in Northern Ireland, creating more costs and bureaucracy for English, Scottish and Welsh companies that want to do business in Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland consumers buying from them. Many businesses have already stopped supplying Northern Ireland. Haulage companies are unsure of what is required of them. Online sales platforms are divided on the advice they give. A previous Prime Minister promised Northern Ireland businesses that if they were asked to complete additional paperwork, they should phone him and he would “direct them to throw that form in the bin.” What direct, tangible advice can the Prime Minister give to those businesses that want to continue supplying Northern Ireland?”
“In this place on 11 September, the Secretary of State made a statement with regard to another inquiry. At that point, I asked him whether, for those families who had lost loved ones to terrorism, he had closed down all the other options for an inquiry. He told me at that point that ICRIR would be the only option. My understanding tonight is that he has now put back on the table several cases, inquests and inquiries. What confidence do those families now have in ICRIR when the Secretary of State says tonight that it needs reform, that he will bring forward further proposals to reform it, and that he has not detailed them? On the Stormont House agreement, I remind him that the Ulster Unionist party did not support it.”
“How does that balance against the threat to the UK economy, or indeed the EU’s, relating to the delivery of the goods covered in the regulations and the relevant moneys?”
“I recently met a group of businesses in my constituency of South Antrim, as well as road hauliers and delivery companies that have been dealing with them. They do not have clarity from the trader support service about how these regulations and others are implemented, or on how they are meant to comply without being on the receiving end of financial penalties for regulations that are neither well explained nor well delivered, nor actually clarified. The Minister referred on a number of occasions to the fact that the regulations are temporary in nature. I seek clarification from the Government on the costs, delivery and designations of the permanent check posts mentioned in regulation 2(2) and (3). What physical structures are to be put in, and what are the costs of implementing the checks?”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Twigg. There are basically three questions for the Minister about the regulations, following her opening speech. The Minister said that the draft regulations would sharpen competitive advantage. I seek clarification from the Minister on the basis of and context for that phrase, because that is not the experience of the businesses that I represent in Northern Ireland. I seek further clarification on how, if and when the regulations are adopted, they will be disseminated across businesses in Northern Ireland. We currently have the trader support service, which is out for a competitive procurement exercise at this moment on the support mechanisms that it delivers to businesses in Northern Ireland.”
“Jay Basra is a 20-year-old Ulster Unionist candidate who ran in Mid Ulster at the last general election. Jay describes himself as Punjabi-British. When he announced his candidacy, he received a torrent of online abuse, which he described as “dehumanising” and “abhorrent”. He said: “It reduces me down to my skin colour rather than myself as a person.” However, he has also said: “If anything I’m even more determined to run again and increase the Ulster Unionist vote like I did in the general election.” What words of encouragement does the Minister have for people such as Jay?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for making a number of times the point that this is a truly national Bill that applies across the United Kingdom. I thank him for including Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales in the measures. When we in this place consider measures to promote health, we should do so equally for the entirety of the United Kingdom.”
“While Northern Ireland’s tobacco retailers register is a helpful enforcement tool, it has limitations, and a new licensing regime would be another significant step forward for my constituents. I acknowledge that, like its predecessor, this Bill is complicated by our somewhat messy post-Brexit arrangements, but I take reassurance from this Government and the last Government on that, because surely they cannot both be wrong.”
“I therefore fully support any and all efforts to dissuade people, especially young people, from taking up the habit in the first place. This Bill goes even further than the one that fell before the last general election. I will be honest and admit that at the time, I was hugely frustrated that the previous Bill was not given the time to succeed, and I feared that a once-in-a-generation chance to do something transformative might have been missed. Looking at the Bill now, however, I am pleased to see that, rather than potential being lost, it has the potential to be even more impactful, given all its enhancements. Mike Nesbitt, my successor as Minister of Health and the leader of my party, has been able to use the little extra time to consider the licensing provisions carefully.”
“Tobacco use is a leading cause of health inequalities in Northern Ireland. It is a tragedy, but an avoidable one, that the lung cancer incidence rate in the most deprived areas of Northern Ireland is about two and a half times the rate in the least deprived areas. A recent health inequalities report from the Department of Health in Northern Ireland showed that the gap between the healthy life expectancy of women in the most deprived areas and those of women in the least deprived stood at 14.2 years—not months, but years. That differential will be dealt with by this Bill and others like it. Moreover, smoking rates in the most deprived areas are typically almost three times higher than the rate in the least deprived.”
“That was by far the greatest support from among the UK regions. Support was also much higher in Northern Ireland for a range of other proposals, such as restricting vape flavourings and displays. Some of the flavours that attract children have been mentioned. There is also a move towards flavours, labels and names that appeal to older age groups. We now have “Brain Freeze” and “Killer Kustard.” The producers are moving on from young people who are already addicted to early teens, and are making sure that their addictions embed. It is important that this Bill addresses that. While I am glad of the support that many of the measures have received across Northern Ireland, we need to remain mindful of the fact that if passed, the Bill will be a literal lifesaver for decades to come.”
“Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) described happening in Scotland, a legislative consent motion went through the Northern Ireland Assembly. More importantly, it received the full support of the four parties in the Northern Ireland Executive. It was only right and proper that the profound public health benefits be extended to Northern Ireland. Like Scotland, Northern Ireland was included in the UK-wide consultation exercise, which closed in December 2023. There was particularly strong support for the measures from the people back home. The consultation received a proportionately higher response rate from the Northern Ireland population than the UK-wide population. While 62.5% of UK respondents were in favour of an ambitious smokefree generation proposal, the Northern Ireland figure stood at 79%.”
“I noticed from the opening comments that the Opposition have a free vote on the legislation, as do the Lib Dems. I assure the Minister that the Ulster Unionist party group in this House is 100% behind the Bill, which means: I am. I sincerely hope it is second time lucky for the Bill. Prior to getting elected to this House, I was the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland in the re-established Assembly when it came back in February 2024. The Bill was then going through this House. Despite hugely challenging pressures, there was a much appreciated latitude from the public health Minister, Andrea Leadsom, who worked with the devolved Administrations to ensure that the Bill had a four-nations approach. I thank the Government for continuing that approach. As the hon.”
“The Minister speaks of the young futures programme. Will she work with the Northern Ireland Executive to put in place the same programmes so that we can prevent young people in Northern Ireland from joining paramilitary organisations, which are nothing more than organised and violent crime organisations?”
“I note from the Secretary of State’s statement that the floods resilience taskforce is designed to ensure better co-ordination between central Government and frontline agencies. Can he advise whether any of those agencies, local authorities or, indeed, the devolved Administrations have requested military assistance through the MACA process? If they have, is that being considered? Will he consider including the Ministry of Defence in his floods resilience taskforce?”
“I welcome the commonality that the law will introduce, and the inference that the Government are putting out a call for evidence to ensure that we have continuity of type of charger across the United Kingdom. Have the Government considered stalling the implementation of the regulation in Northern Ireland, so that it can be implemented at the same time across the entirety of the United Kingdom, rather than being delivered in two different parts?”
“In regard to the specifics of how the regulations affect Northern Ireland, I seek some clarity from the Minister about part two of the explanatory memorandum. He said that he had engaged with the Northern Ireland Department of Justice, but I note that there is an impact on the public sector because the enforcing authorities are Northern Ireland district councils. What engagement has there been those with councils on regulation that is due to be implemented on 28 December? To follow on from the point made by the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim, if this legislation had been adopted in this place or through the Northern Ireland Assembly, that engagement would already have happened.”
“Those on the Government Front Bench say, “No, they will not”, but that is the assessment of the Agriculture Minister in the devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland.”
“As a past president of the Young Farmers’ Clubs of Ulster and a former director of Rural Support, which is a mental health charity supporting farmers and farm families across Northern Ireland, I have worked on cases where farm families have been through foot and mouth, swine flu, avian influenza and TB. I have seen the impact. They have had to deal with complete herds being removed. However, I have never encountered so many farmers in Northern Ireland being as low as they are this minute, due to the farm family inheritance tax put on them by this Government in this place. They are so angry about what is happening. The Secretary of State talked about not listening to the fury, or the alarming headlines, but a third of farms in Northern Ireland will be affected. Some 75% of our local dairy sector farms will be affected.”
“He now says that if he has to pay 10 years of inheritance tax, that is 10 years in which he will not be investing in his farm, and its productivity. The average income in Northern Ireland is £27,345, and these measures are making our family farms unsustainable. I think the hon. Member for Ceredigion Preseli (Ben Lake) mentioned devolved farming payments now becoming a Barnett consequential for Northern Ireland. I would love clarity from Treasury or DEFRA Ministers on who asked for that, because it was not Northern Ireland. It sounds as if it was not Wales, so why was that change made to how agricultural support goes to our devolved Administrations? On whose advice and guidance was that change made? What engagement did the Treasury or the Government have with the devolved institutions prior to making it?”
“It is also the assessment of the Ulster Farmers Union. I encourage the Government Front Benchers to engage with the devolved Administrations, because if our Agriculture Minister in Northern Ireland is causing alarm and raising headlines that are not accurate, it is up to this Government to correct that. That is the impact, and the feedback that I am receiving from farms, farm families and our Agriculture Minister in the devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland. I spoke to a friend over the weekend who is a bit younger than me, with a young family. He is now concerned about shackling his family farm to his children. He has been progressive, and has taken up every financial opportunity to progress the family farm and make sure that it is fit for purpose.”
“The Secretary of State will know that health is devolved across all the nations. Can she reassure me that the Secretary of State for Health will work with all the devolved Health Ministers to make sure that we can truly engender a national health service for the likes of mental health provision?”
“I recognise the comments from the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) about going back to having a named, constituency, locally-recognised police officer. The majority of police officers want to be in that situation and we need to think about how we can support them in doing so. I also pay tribute to the Police Federation for Northern Ireland—particularly Liam Kelly—and how it has represented its officers and fought for them at every opportunity; I hope that the rest of this House does likewise.”
“It has been said that we have a challenged and declining policing budget while health funding has increased by 60% to 80% over the last 13 years. That is an unfair comparison. Any financial expert from the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council will say that health needs 6% year on year simply to stand still; I think that is a recognised statistic, so it is not fair to compare what health has received with what policing has not. As the hon. Member for North Down indicated, justice has received additional moneys, and—given the way that the structures in Northern Ireland work—it should be up to the Justice Minister how that works out. I pay tribute to our police personnel in Northern Ireland for the continued work they do in challenging situations, day after day, night after night, and in the face of a lot of criticism.”
“With a letter of chastisement from the permanent secretary of the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland; our Chief Constable was so dedicated to service and delivery, but he received that level of put-down—and it was not corrected or even challenged by the Justice Minister, who should have stepped in to support the Chief Constable, the police and the Policing Board. The challenges of the PSNI have been mentioned. Certain parts have not been perfect, including the data breach compensation claim and the additional pressures from the holiday pay claim, but it is concerning that yesterday in the Northern Ireland Assembly—on the back of the Budget announced in this place—the Finance Minister said that His Majesty’s Treasury is insisting that those payments come out of the Stormont budget.”
“Member for North Down has indicated, that leaves about 4,500 who will actually be deployed—and the purpose of this debate is to look at what more can be done to address the further challenges that our Chief Constable and the Northern Ireland Policing Board face in delivering their service. As has been referenced here—although I do not think this is widely understood—policing in Northern Ireland got to the critical point at which our Chief Constable took it upon himself to write to the Prime Minister to seek direct intervention, over the heads of the Justice Minister, the Policing Board and the Northern Ireland Assembly. Such was the situation he felt so desperate about—protecting not just the backs of his own officers, but the people of Northern Ireland—that he felt that that was the direction he needed to take. How was he rewarded?”
“We are currently asking our police service and our Chief Constable to do more with less; when it comes to the security and reassurance of the people of Northern Ireland, that is a recipe for disaster. The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) has indicated that position, with women on our local media this morning saying that they now feel unsafe walking the streets of Northern Ireland. In this day and age in any part of this United Kingdom, it is a shame and a disgrace that we are now in a situation where women feel unsafe walking the streets. This should be a first-world country, with a first-world police service looking after the people, who deserve and expect that. By the end of this year, it is expected that our police numbers will have fallen to 6,000 in Northern Ireland—as the hon.”