Lincoln Jopp
MP for Spelthorne · Conservative · United Kingdom
“All my residents in Spelthorne and I are desperate to get Spelthorne’s five stations into the travelcard zone. The Secretary of State has looked at this in the past, but will she look again, with South Western Railway, at the financial modelling being used to say that it is not possible?”
“My residents in Spelthorne love their racecourse and have no desire to see it flattened and turned into housing so, as any Member would, I started a petition. It has received over 3,500 signatures so far. I also organised a public meeting in the Magpie pub in Lower Sunbury last week, attended by about 70 people.”
“Barratt Redrow told me on 20 March that it was going to put in a planning application by the end of this year. After I started campaigning vociferously for Kempton Park, it elicited a media statement from the company on Friday that it had no plans to put in a planning application during this calendar year.”
“In the centre, Jukebox Man; on the far side, Gaelic Warrior; and on the near side, Banbridge, in a classic renewal of the Ladbrokes King George.” The reason I focus on that is because I was there on Boxing day last year to watch the running of the King George.”
“The proposal had been seen off under previous planning rules. However, hon. Members will be aware that, under the new national planning policy framework, there is an assumed yes for planning purposes if a proposed development is within 800 metres of a train station with two departures an hour in the same direction.”
“Member for Liverpool Walton (Dan Carden), that it is “an internationally recognised venue and a major economic asset that, once lost, can never be replaced. Locally, it supports jobs and generates substantial spending for hospitality, retail, transport and many other businesses, while providing valuable green space.”
The complete record
Every one of 599 lines we hold for Lincoln Jopp, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 1 of 12.
“All my residents in Spelthorne and I are desperate to get Spelthorne’s five stations into the travelcard zone. The Secretary of State has looked at this in the past, but will she look again, with South Western Railway, at the financial modelling being used to say that it is not possible? I think a load more people would use that trainline if it were in the travelcard zone.”
“Horseracing is the second biggest spectator sport in the UK, and a major contributor to the UK economy and its culture. As an employer, British Racing takes care of a great many thousand individuals and families with specific skills, and quite obviously in more rural destinations. Any job losses in our current economy would be disastrous.””
“And from the world of the flat, there is support from John Gosden, Roger Varian, Richard Hannon, Andrew Balding, Ralph Beckett, Charlie Hills, Ed Walker and Eve Johnson Houghton, and there is support from a number of people in the racing press—for example, people probably saw Marcus Armytage’s column at the weekend. And the list goes on. The list of names boils down the reaction I have had. Here is a decent example of the wider reaction: “Sir, I am Dan Skelton, I’ve been involved in horse sports all my life and have been a National Hunt racehorse trainer for 13 years. I am currently Champion Trainer of the UK. I am writing in support of Kempton Park Racecourse remaining exactly that. KPR is an elite racing venue steeped in history, with a lot more to offer in the future.”
“Four horses took the last fence line abreast, with Harry Redknapp’s The Jukebox Man taking the honours by the narrowest of margins.” The journalist Brough Scott wrote that it was: “As good as it gets.” And, yes, Kempton Park is indeed as good as it gets when it comes to grade 1 sporting venues. We cannot let it fall to property developers. Nicky has also garnered support from other names in racing—the list is like “Who’s Who?” From the National Hunt world, there is support from Nicky Henderson, Paul Nicholls, Dan Skelton, Willie Mullins, Ben Pauling, Jamie Snowden, Alan King and Fergal O’Brien.”
“I will start with an email I received from a chap called Richard Dunwoody: “As a steeplechase jockey, I enjoyed some of the best days of my career at Kempton Park racecourse. Two of them were when partnering with the great Desert Orchid to win the King George VI Chase in 1989 and in 1990. Hats flew in the air. The roars were deafening. As Dessie crossed the line, his ears pricked. It would be a tragedy to lose this racecourse. With the introduction of all-weather racing, Kempton Park has indeed changed over the years, but the standard of racing at the course has not. Jockeys and horses of the very highest level still compete there, as we witnessed last year in the renewal of the King George.”
“My residents in Spelthorne love their racecourse and have no desire to see it flattened and turned into housing so, as any Member would, I started a petition. It has received over 3,500 signatures so far. I also organised a public meeting in the Magpie pub in Lower Sunbury last week, attended by about 70 people. However, I really wanted to get a view from horseracing itself on this proposal. Although I go to Kempton Park, I do not know horseracing inside out, so I reached out to a number of people in the racing industry, and I have been blown away by the response. I wish to share with hon. Members certain aspects of that response. In doing so, I pay tribute to someone in the Public Gallery who, in my book, is racing royalty—Nicky Henderson. He has been fantastic in galvanising horseracing and the response we have received.”
“Barratt Redrow told me on 20 March that it was going to put in a planning application by the end of this year. After I started campaigning vociferously for Kempton Park, it elicited a media statement from the company on Friday that it had no plans to put in a planning application during this calendar year. However, my area is undergoing local government reorganisation. On 1 April 2027, Spelthorne borough council will be no more and we will be subsumed into west Surrey and, if I have my way, south Middlesex. I can see what Barratt Redrow is going to do: it will wait until 1 April and then the planning application will go in. That will last until the end of 2028 unless there is a live planning application under consideration, in which case it gets extended for a further two years. Obviously, I am agitating locally.”
“The proposal had been seen off under previous planning rules. However, hon. Members will be aware that, under the new national planning policy framework, there is an assumed yes for planning purposes if a proposed development is within 800 metres of a train station with two departures an hour in the same direction. That is despite the racecourse being on highly protected metropolitan green belt, some of it being floodplain and all of it being an internationally famous, iconic racecourse. My aim in securing this debate is to highlight the risk that this proposal could happen. It is policy, not rules, so hopefully the Minister will be so furnished as to advocate for one of our most important sporting venues—most important to horseracing in particular—when the application is submitted.”
“In the centre, Jukebox Man; on the far side, Gaelic Warrior; and on the near side, Banbridge, in a classic renewal of the Ladbrokes King George.” The reason I focus on that is because I was there on Boxing day last year to watch the running of the King George. There was an audible gasp as the four in the fray came round the final bend into the straight. Members should have heard the roar. I think the whole of Spelthorne was on The Jukebox Man, owned by Harry Redknapp. When he crossed the line—it was very close—the place simply erupted. And the reason I am focusing on Kempton Park racecourse in my constituency is that it is under severe threat because, in around 2017, the Jockey Club sold an option to Barratt Redrow to make an application to flatten the racecourse and put up to 3,500 homes there.”
“Still no more than four lengths split this star-studded field of eight as they make their turn for home. Three fences to go in this Ladbrokes King George and it’s now Jango Baie on the outside with The Jukebox Man, and Djelo is right there with Gaelic Warrior on the inside. Banbridge tries to go through between two horses. Fact To File was away on the outside towards the second from home. The Jukebox Man has a lead by a neck. On the inside, Gaelic Warrior. Banbridge, the reigning champion, with every chance. Jango Baie right up the inside. Still a length between the leading four of the King George. Over the final fence. Banbridge, a nose in front, Gaelic Warrior to the inside and Jukebox Man racing towards the line in a head-bobbing finish.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the future of British horseracing. It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I am very grateful to hon. Members for attending this debate. I will be very generous with interventions, but I hope that hon. Members will not intervene for the next 45 seconds—they will see why. “The final open ditch is fence number 14. Il Est Francais by about a length and a half. Jukebox Man in second now, being pushed along by Jango Baie in third. They’re bunching up towards the fourth from home and it’s Il Est Francais. He’s now joined by The Jukebox Man on his outside. Jango Baie right there in close third. Djelo now makes a big move round the outside and is now in fourth. Just covered up is Gaelic Warrior and Banbridge. Master Chewy on the inside. Fact To File on the outside.”
“My hon. Friend makes two outstanding points. The race commentary I read out is just the tip of the iceberg. Sitting underneath that, in order to produce a race, is a whole ecosystem and industry of equine specialisms, including stables, stable lads and trainers. The whole thing culminates in a race, but it supports a whole industry. He is absolutely right to say that, if we lose it, we will never get it back.”
“The hon. Member makes a very good point. I think Europe’s largest antiques fair happens at Kempton Park racecourse twice every month. I have been around it and met stallholders who travel from Germany and France. It is absolutely enormous and produces oodles of cash for the Jockey Club—I cannot understand why the Jockey Club would want to sell the family silver. How can we save our racecourses? First, everyone should be going racing. It is a bit like the local pub—use it or lose it. Secondly, we need to educate a lot of people about horseracing, so that things like planning applications are considered from a position of understanding. I am obviously doing my bit by advocating as much as possible.”
“It is about protecting jobs, heritage, tourism, green space and one of the most successful global industries. Once Kempton is lost, it is lost forever”— I will continue with these quotations until Members get bored or intervene.”
“Member for Liverpool Walton (Dan Carden), that it is “an internationally recognised venue and a major economic asset that, once lost, can never be replaced. Locally, it supports jobs and generates substantial spending for hospitality, retail, transport and many other businesses, while providing valuable green space. Nationally, it underpins an industry supporting tens of thousands of jobs”, as my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland and Fakenham (Jerome Mayhew) pointed out, “across racing, agriculture, veterinary services, transport, media, tourism, hospitality and countless rural businesses. Internationally, it strengthens Britain’s reputation as a global leader in horse racing, attracting overseas owners, investment and visitors…This debate is about far more than one racecourse.”
“The hon. Member reminds me that I, too, should declare that I am a member of the APPG, and that he is my chair. I received the following email from Kerry Lee: “I am writing to express my full support for your opposition to the proposed redevelopment of Kempton Park Racecourse and to thank you for securing Tuesday's debate. Kempton is far more than a racecourse. Since opening in 1878, it has become part of Britain’s sporting and cultural heritage. It is one of the country’s few truly year-round racecourses, staging over 70 fixtures annually through its all-weather track while also hosting the prestigious King George VI Chase and some of the finest jump racing in the world. It is nationally significant sporting infrastructure”. She goes on to say, to the point made by the hon.”
“I think it is irreplaceable.” This is from Philip and Sarah Hobbs: “As a trainer of National Hunt horses for 40 years I am very opposed to Kempton Racecourse closing down to build houses. It is the home of the King George on Boxing day as well as plenty of other important races, and is very free draining maintaining good ground in the winter. It also has a place providing plenty of opportunities for flat horses on the all-weather circuit.””
“I think the hon. Member was being kind to me there, as much as anything else. I thank him for his point, and he is right. Everywhere I have lived, I have gone to the races. I used to go to Perth races; when I was in the Army, I used to go to Catterick races. The racecourse is part of the experience of a place. This is from Alan King at Barbury Castle stables: “I have run horses at Kempton Park for over 25 years, training over 100 winners. In my opinion Kempton is in the top four of British Racecourses. It is a very fair track and attracts top class horses in both National Hunt and Flat Racing. Its other huge attraction is that it produces decent going mid-winter which is the only southern track that provides this.”
“The Minister may be concerned that I am being a nimby, but I can reassure her that if she wants to build homes in Spelthorne, I can show her other places that are not on iconic racecourses, green belt and partial floodplain. I hope I have given her enough political ammunition so that she can go away, make some inquiries and ensure that if this planning application ever sees the light of day, strong signals could be sent to Barratt Redrow about its ultimate lack of success. If it wants housing in Spelthorne, I can direct it elsewhere.”
“I understand the house builder’s option to purchase the course expires in 2028, which suggests that it is likely to be exercised within the next year. The Council should resist any Consent which would mean that Kempton Park has to close for racing as it is not only Green Belt, but also a course supported by all owners and trainers, providing employment for many”. I am not going to continue with these quotations—I think the Minister and hon. Members have got the message. I was really surprised when I reached out to horseracing, because I thought it would speak with 50 or 60 different voices, but the whole of horseracing—with the exception of the Jockey Club—appears totally united by the notion that we must save Kempton Park racecourse from development.”
“Kempton Park is one of the four jewels in the Middlesex sporting crown.” Another email states: “Good afternoon Lincoln, I have read the article in the Racing Post today regarding the application that Barratt Redrow intend to make for Planning Consent on the land at Kempton Racecourse. With the closure of Chelmsford, the importance of retaining Kempton as a dual purpose racecourse providing owners with All Weather racing all year round and National Hunt racing during the winter, within easy access of Central London, has become even more important. I have horses in training in Lambourn for both the Flat and National Hunt, where for the latter Kempton is probably the best drained and fairest course in the United Kingdom, rarely impacted by adverse weather.”
“Kempton, with its all weather track, offers valuable opportunities all year round to flat racing owners and trainers and hosts some of the most important races in the jump racing calendar. With its proximity to London and its good transport links it is also a highly valued local amenity. I would like to add my voice and support to preserving Kempton Park’s status as a racecourse.” I would not like hon. Members to think that I was in any way scraping the barrel by now. Mr Russell Grant—he was not in horseracing, but I believe he is the nation’s favourite astrologer—said: “Good morning…Someone has just told me that” you are “leading a campaign regarding the proposed development of Kempton Park. Is this true they want to build over the racecourse? Do let me know if I can help.”
“The hon. Member speaks with passion about animal and horse safety. I do not know a single owner, trainer or jockey, or anyone involved with horses, who does not care deeply for them. At Kempton Park, I have been struck by the extensive lengths the racecourse goes to in redesigning fences and barriers to ensure that animal welfare—horse welfare—is a very high priority. I did not see the incident the hon. Member referred to, but I take it on trust that the industry cares deeply for its animals, which are both highly prized and very expensive. This is from Martin Fetherston-Godley: “Dear Mr Jopp…As a former racehorse trainer, I am very concerned to hear that one of our premier racecourses could…be sold for redevelopment.”
“I also thank all of racing who have come in behind this campaign to save Kempton Park racecourse and the members of the public, including my own residents, a number of whom have come up here today, and those from racing more widely. I hope that racing is reassured that the expert voices that have been given airtime today show that there are some very fierce advocates for horseracing, and we look forward to it having a bright future. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the future of British horseracing.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for Doncaster Central (Sally Jameson), my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey), the hon. Members for Liverpool Walton (Dan Carden), for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Ely and East Cambridgeshire (Charlotte Cane), as well as the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Helen Maguire), and our own resident expert, my hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr French). I am grateful for the Minister’s reply. I took great note of what she said, and I hope they were also listening to it in the boardroom of Barratt Redrow. I look forward to rereading her words tomorrow, because they told a very large story.”
“On Armed Forces Day, I had the huge honour of unveiling a veterans’ buddy bench in Sunbury Park in my Spelthorne constituency. The idea is that the bench is dedicated to veterans; veterans go there, and members of the public are encouraged to go and sit with them. As the Front Benchers go around the country, will they encourage other constituencies to get a veterans’ buddy bench?”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Weald of Kent (Katie Lam) on securing this urgent question and thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting it, because Shabir Ahmed is a vile individual and his continued presence at liberty on our streets is an affront to every single value that we hold dear. The Minister has come here and said that all options are on the table, but he has also said he needs to tread carefully. The people of Spelthorne, who have been talking to me about this all weekend, do not want him to tread carefully; they want him to pull on his hobnail boots and frogmarch Shabir Ahmed to the airport today.”
“More money for defence is a good thing, so I welcome the Secretary of State’s defence investment plan. He has just said that he is confident that we will make good on the commitment to 3.5% in the next spending review. I do not know why he is so confident about that. The current Prime Minister will not be Prime Minister; the current Chancellor will not be Chancellor; and—dare I say it—he may not be Secretary of State. He would give us, industry, the markets and the whole country a great deal more confidence if he answered the question from the shadow Secretary of State and told us whether the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) had signed this off.”
“T7. During Armed Forces Week, it is such a pleasure to see so many members of the armed forces around the Palace of Westminster, and in particular to see so many members of the senior service in the Public Gallery. When they came in, I thought it might be a coup d’état and that I just had not had the memo, but then I realised that in this place people do not wear uniforms for a coup.On 1 June, I asked the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister whether officials and the security services were going to go through Lord Mandelson’s time in office with a fine-toothed comb to make sure that he had not been subject to leverage. He reassured me:“I can confirm…that officials are conducting that review of documentation.” —[ Official Report , 1 June 2026; Vol. 786, c.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for his statement. When the Minister came here with the statement the other day, I asked him about Thames Covers, a boat fitters in my constituency which relies on stainless steel tubing, and got lots of warm words about, “We’re going to go away and consult.” I listened to his statement today and read it in great detail. Will stainless steel tubing now not be hit by an additional 50% price, which is what its suppliers are telling it? I am seeing Thames Covers tomorrow at 2.15 pm. I would love to be able to give the business a definitive answer.”
“I am a little unclear on the implications of what the Minister just said. If, for example, Barratt Redrow and the Jockey Club submitted a planning application, under the new national planning policy framework, to flatten Kempton Park racecourse to build 2,000 homes on that land, would no one be able to consider what had happened in retrospect? Would they be allowed to consider only what happened under this Government’s current NPPF?”
“Would she like to put on record the fact that, if the newly elected shadow unitary authority makes a proposal with a majority for the renaming of that unitary authority, she would be bound to accept it?”
“I am so grateful to the Minister for giving way. I am also conscious of the Chair’s prohibition on stretching the envelope and referring only to the Minister’s own words. She said that the purpose of this whole procedure today was to make local government reorganisation easier for residents to understand and for a safe, orderly and effective transition. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne for his expertise in this area. The Minister and I have privately discussed the powers of shadow unitary authorities and their ability to propose name changes: in my case to the “West Surrey”, and if I had my way, “and South Middlesex”, unitary authority.”
“I would be grateful to my hon. Friend if she reminded the House by what share of the vote our hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Douglas Lumsden) was returned on a platform of increasing drilling.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Given what he is saying about Northern Ireland, would he support a private Member’s Bill that would set out in law that there should be no further investigations, inquiries, inquests or prosecutions unless, in the view of a Supreme Court judge, new and compelling evidence has come to light? If so, I can only recommend that he come to the Chamber on 4 September, when my Northern Ireland Troubles (Criminal Investigations etc) Bill will have its Second Reading.”
“I buried men from my regiment, and I try not to forget to always pay tribute to them and what they did; it enabled me to stand here and be their voice today. Essentially, from the end of the cold war, successive Governments started to take risks. This ticking time bomb has been passed on from Government to Government. Bad luck, Labour: it has gone off on this Government’s watch; that is the fact of it. Essentially, a very big lie has been told to the British public; they have been told that we can have the defence we want at the price that we are prepared to pay for it.”
“I did not really understand that the geopolitical glue that had helped keep the world safe for the last 40 years was coming unstuck, or what the implications might be for Officer Cadet Jopp, but the implications were certainly there. Those bonds, which had kept the cold war in stasis, did indeed start to melt, and that meant that I had a very busy military career. I went to war when the Conservatives were in power, and when Labour was in power. I have had poor equipment. Both sides of the House have been responsible for part of what happened following 1989, as we started to manage decline. Do not get me wrong: I am so proud of the men and women of our armed forces, particularly those I led.”
“He kept on indicating, “There’s something there.” They thought, “Oh blimey, we’d better go and get the keys.” They got the keys and found a Chinese spy, who had been in there for a week. He was arrested and is doing time in prison in Norway—pre-trial, I believe, on remand. That brings home exactly what the hon. Member said: we are talking about real threats and real enemies, and in that case, they were are literally at the gate. I joined the Army in 1986, and it generously paid for me to go to university to study theology and philosophy—that was very broad-minded of it at the time. I went back to Sandhurst to confirm my commission in 1989. That was a significant moment. I was on college guard, polishing my boots, as I watched the Berlin wall fall.”
“May I say what a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Member for Dunfermline and Dollar (Graeme Downie), who was speaking a great deal of sense? He mentioned the threat that we face in the High North. He might be interested to know that the Defence Committee was in Norway last week. We went up to the Arctic circle, to the Combined Air Operations Centre at Bodø, where we were told an extraordinary story. When the forces there were doing a security exercise, they put a baddie on the roof of a sangar near the air base’s gate, and took a dog round to find the baddie. The dog did not want to know about the bloke they had put on the roof of the sangar; he would not stop indicating an issue with the sangar itself.”
“Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns) or the current one—say the other day that it is rather tricky buying drones, because as soon as we have them they go out of date, so we will not buy any. That is pretty defeatist. We should redo the way in which we are thinking about things so that our land forces in Estonia have drones.”
“The brigade simply writes up that requirement, saying “I need a pre-charge of some sort to burst through that screen so I can fly my fibre optic guided missile in and get the baddies.” That gets put out to industry, which churns the problem; the record, from flash to bang—from requirement to kit delivery—is five days. That is what can be achieved. Hon. Members must look at what is being bypassed to achieve that level of agility: the whole of the military chain of command above brigade level, bypassed; the Ministry of Defence, bypassed; the Treasury, bypassed; and equally, all the regulators, bypassed. That should give the national armaments director a sense of where we have to go to generate the relevance. I think I heard the Armed Forces Minister—I cannot remember whether it was the hon.”
“When the Defence Committee went to Ukraine last year, we were briefed on its procurement structure, which is extraordinary. Ukraine has put together an Amazon-like marketplace with 1,700 sovereign Ukrainian defence companies as suppliers and the customers being the fighting brigades, who simply write a requirement for a new bit of kit. For example, let us say that the Russians have got a new screen so the brigades cannot fly their fibre optically guided munition right into the Russians’ command post and have it blow up on the general’s desk.”
“When the Government came in, they appointed the national armaments director, who will be the second-highest paid civil servant in the country. I hope that he is a massive success. I tried to set up the national armaments director up for success before his appointment by asking two Procurement Ministers whether the director would be given carte blanche to tear up the book when it comes to procurement. One of them said not only would he be given the ability to tear up the book but that they would hold him to account for doing so. I said, “The last thing anyone on the Defence Committee wants is for the national armaments director to come in front of us, after being in post a year, to say, ‘Well, we did want to change things, but I wasn’t really allowed to.’” The way is set fair: the national armaments director can rip up that book.”
“We do have to rearm—I should declare an interest as a founder of the all-party parliamentary group on rearmament—but unfortunately our record on that is not great. The numbers were run the other day and of the 32 NATO members recorded we came 31st for rearmament. The only trouble is, in 32nd is Iceland, which does not have any armed forces. That is not a great record for going over to Europe and trying to convince our European and NATO allies that we are pulling our weight. One or two other things happened in that period of time. First, the MOD got pretty bloated, in particular in procurement. It is deeply unhelpful that we are now on our third Procurement Minister in less than 22 months, which makes it look like we are not taking it seriously. Equally, it shows no consistency in the building of approach.”
“My right hon. Friend and fellow Scots Guardsman makes a good point. The zeitgeist throughout that period of time was to say, “Look, wars are a thing of the past. We can take risk against defence.” That risk has rarely crystallised, so people have been tempted to take more and more risk. We have also seen it in the hypothecation of defence spending. I get an Army pension, which contributes to the 2% of GDP being spent on defence. The last time I checked—despite the Minister for the Armed Forces having threatened to mobilise me more than once—my pension was not making a huge contribution to our ability to face down a resurgent Russia. Everyone was taking risk and passing on that risk to one another. Now, I am afraid, that risk has crystallised in that we do face real enemies, and those enemies are very close.”
“I thank the former Minister for his intervention. There is a huge challenge to us, in that we have to turn our ploughshares into swords rather than the other way round. We need industry that is sufficiently flexible to flick the switch and turn the lawn mower factory into the drone factory in double-quick time.”
“I fear deeply for the stain on the moral component through the constant hounding of our veterans; indeed, I declare an interest as I spent three-and-a-half years of my life in uniform trying to bring peace to that place. I was not shot and blown up there but somewhere else. When the children of the schools in my constituency hear that I have been shot, they all look at me and say, “Where?” I always say, “On the roof of the Mammy Yoko hotel in Freetown.” [ Laughter. ] The moral component must be reinforced; it does not need resourcing. I hope that the new Secretary of State for Defence was only prepared to accept the job because he had some deal over Northern Ireland veterans. I look forward to finding out whether that is indeed the case, because our veterans need protecting from those prosecutions.”
“We have talked a lot about the physical component, and the moral is to the physical as three to one. We know that is true because Napoleon said it, and he was brilliant. I have had conversations with both former and current Ministers about the undermining of the moral component of fighting power with the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill. That is why, when I came tenth in the ballot for a private Member’s Bill, I took the opportunity to attempt to put in law that there should be no further investigations, inquests, inquiries or prosecutions of Northern Ireland veterans unless, in the view of a Supreme Court judge, there is new, compelling evidence. The Bill comes to the House of Commons on 4 September and I very much hope that I can get cross-party support for it.”
“Similarly, James Heappey came to give evidence to the Committee on the Afghan data breach, but he got quite lyrical and started to say that he felt uneasy that, as Minister for the Armed Forces, he was getting lots of documents that said, “You can’t tell Parliament this” and “You can’t tell Parliament that”, because it was all highly classified. He claims that he wanted to be able to tell Parliament more but was constrained from so doing by the classification system. The Defence Committee used to do its own redaction. It used to get the full threat picture and was grown up enough to redact and not release secrets to the public. That would be a much healthier way of doing things as we go forward. I turn finally to the moral component of fighting power.”
“The Prime Minister of Norway talks about defence about once a week in all his radio and television interviews. We met Norway’s joint forces commander, and even he goes on once a week and talks about the threat. Okay, Norway is nearer Russia, and it has a small land border and a very large sea border with Russia. The strategic defence review mentioned starting a national conversation; it seems to be a conversation of one line. If we are to get the investment that defence needs, we need to talk much more openly. One other thing that happened during the cold war, I am afraid, is that the MOD became much more secretive. The Defence Committee always used to get things such as the major projects review and the equipment plan to see how the pounds were being spent. We do not get those any more.”