YouSaid · the spoken record

Andrea Matwyshyn

lines on the record: 78
first: 2019-12-04
most recent: 2019-12-04
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“There's room for improvement also, and I've said this to the FDA as well, so they know my thoughts on this. For example, adverse event reporting structures are not ideal right now, in my opinion.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, and I think that for some patients it absolutely is. It can be transformative in giving people quality of life and in addressing symptoms that are connected with diagnosed illnesses or diseases or deteriorations. The key is to simultaneously build as well as we can. And so that's when we need to learn from the earlier generations of medical devices and help identify the ways that we can build more safely. And the FDA is one of the agencies that has been thinking about this actively. They have pre-market guidance for security in medical devices and post-market guidance. They're updating the pre-market guidance again. And so they're thinking about it. They're working with industry to try to make things better here.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You call up your And certainly, like, the technologies who are building this must, and we'll try to have someone on the show who can speak to this, but there obviously is, I would assume, a whole lot of optimism, a whole lot of we're going to improve the quality of life for people. We're going to take away these debilitating diseases and symptoms. So is that the mindset? Is the assumption that this stuff is ultimately a net good for society and for people”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or it could even be in real time. You're sitting in your living room, you call up your doctor, and you tell the doctor, I'm having changed symptoms, and you can either try to recalibrate it yourself, or depending on the structure of the various systems, the doctor might be able to remotely assist you in recalibrating that device.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So there are basically two sets of rationale. So one is potentially a medical use case. So having a neural implant can assist patients with Parkinson's. It can assist patients with various kinds of physical diagnosed health issues and enable the patient to, in some cases, control the stimulation of the brain implant from their arm or from a remote control or a doctor could even change settings for patients remotely in the way that some of these medical devices that are implanted in the brain.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're going to go deep into what these potential legal ramifications could be and patent ramifications and if the software doesn't update. But let's just ground a little bit more into the use case to use a tech term. So talk to me about what would motivate someone to get that kind of implant in their brain. What's actually happening today? What have you seen?”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly. So here we're crossing into an example of an optional augmentation. So the vision of these third generation Internet of Bodies devices have generally been about healthy bodies gaining that additional capability of brain processing. So while there have been times in my life where I certainly would have wanted to be all-knowing, the engineering observer and academic in me says, whoa there, how exactly are we building this? Why do we think it's not going to be subject to the same kinds of vulnerabilities, both technical and legal, that we see already present in the IoT system around those devices, in prior generations of software, and in med tech? Conversations and not learning from technology history is the surest way to have things end poorly.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Procedure that injects or inserts things. And then there is an external communication link with computers outside the brain. of what this could work like in the best case scenario is that it is an extension of the processing capabilities of the human brain. So assuming that we view the body as just a carbon-based operating system and the brain is part of the hardware, the wetware that powers the outcomes of this carbon-based operating system by having more computing power reside outside of our brains, we enable ourselves to have an extended frame, connect with Google, just think about QCAC pictures and have them appear for us.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Our listeners are very savvy and might. But I'm like, holy shit. So go on. You're channeling what I was feeling as I was watching the neuralink presentation recently. So it's devices like Neuralink where there is a component inserted inside the brain with some degree of”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The third level were just starting to experiment with, and both in the private sector and DARPA in military context is experimenting with this. And it's body melded devices. So we're talking about well brain implanted things. So for example, people should see.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not necessarily new. These are sort of the pacemakers or the earliest second generation devices. You also have cochlear implants, which are an early second generation device. Cochlear implants now have Bluetooth capabilities. So that could be enhancing for someone who is a user of a cochlear implant in”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There are a bunch now, yeah. Right Sure. So level two is body embedded devices. So those are the medical devices that I was just mentioning, the artificial pancreases, the pacemaker systems that rely on internet pushed updates for certain components.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Et So first wave of Internet of Bodies, Fitbit, Apple Watch, an app that, let's say, tracks your menstrual cycle. What is that app called? It's like OER. They're bunched now, yeah. Right. And then it's like, all right, you use these as a consumer. They're helpful. They're interesting. They allow you to kind of know more about your body, which is ultimately could be a good thing. But you started to see like these security, potential security concerns. Talk to me about what is level two and level three of the Internet of Bodies. Sure.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Augmenting enhancing the body from the outside. And so they found at this point homes in various contexts. You see Google Glasses adopted on factory floors. You see many folks on the street wearing Apple watches to monitor certain bodily dynamics. The quantified self-movement was a thing, though we don't hear that term quite as much anymore. And so that desire for self-knowledge, self-archiving, it kind of connects with your prior podcast about the body hacking through nutrition, etc. And this was a level of self-quantification that in theory could enhance those kinds of enterprises. But what I also saw simultaneously is that that data was being then resold, repurposed, repackaged potentially, which had other kinds of social.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The first generation of it is already here. So the first generation Internet of Bodies devices are things we're very familiar with, Fitbits, Apple watches, Google Glasses.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which are also now approved. And there's a history of early medical devices such as pacemakers and the related systems and insulin pumps having histories of security vulnerabilities. And sometimes the companies weren't quick to want to fix them. So I saw this next generation of med tech coming and started worrying about those same dynamics from the last generations of med tech. And then meanwhile, on the IoT side, there's this dynamic happening. And that convergence of IoT with med tech into consumer devices that are not necessarily going to be classified as medical devices, that's when I realized”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So several years ago, the FDA approved the first digital pills, first in form as a concept, and then in particular applications. So digital pills are pills that you swallow and they're sitting in your stomach, and they talk to your phone from inside your stomach. And so that gives you potentially useful information. So for example, if you have, say, an elderly patient who may not remember whether he's taken his pills, having the documentation of the pill talking to the phone in that use case, it potentially has utility to assist in his treatment. Now, the downside, because being steeped in security, unfortunately, I always see the downside simultaneously, is that as we start connecting things like artificial pancreas,”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The way that IoT was being built, there were supply chain integrity concerns. These devices were being harnessed into botnets, and so they were being used for denial of service attacks. And that has all escalated to sort of next level concerns, to the point where the Marai botnet, which harnessed DVRs it harnessed webcams. It took down well-defended properties like Twitter, for example, on Reddit. So meanwhile, in med tech world, I saw medical devices evolving to increasingly rely on software and give us an example of a medical device.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So one of the tech developments that I have been following for years from a security standpoint in particular has been the Internet of Things. So we've connected billions of devices to the internet and some of them are adding value and some of them are highly useful and then some are kind of like the Jucero, if you'll remember the Jucero that didn't necessarily add much value in the opinion. What was that choicing? It was a juicing device that was well funded, but when it was released into the market basically people resoundingly mocked it as not providing extra value for the money and it was kind of expensive and you could basically get the same effect by hand squeezing the baggie of juice that you inserted into the machine. So the innovation was uneven in IoT and from a security”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's fascinating Oh God, it was quite the scene. It was hilarious. Ways engaging in On security. Amazing. Like I was That might have been the golden age. Yeah. Yeah. I was completely. Bulk of To this conversation. All right. Well, you just helped me to understand how to better articulate my career as someone who's done a residency in tech but has a background in journalism and now I'm back. So listen, tell me a little bit about you. You have a paper coming out. I want to just start like before we go into the paper and everything that comes out, I want to talk about this concept of the internet of bodies. So what does that mean?”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The marketing and operations and information systems side of all of these questions and learned tremendous amounts from my colleagues in other departments. And I spent a year-ish with the Federal Trade Commission as their senior policy advisor on security and privacy as an academic in residence and had a fellowship at Princeton for a year with the Center for Information Technology. So you just went deep into learning about the future and you didn't feel like you could do that in corporate law. So you went back to school, you got your PhD, then you started jumping around to interesting institutions. So it was, I was actually in a JDPHD program. So there was always a method to the madness of ending up teaching, but I felt like much as a doctor needs a residency to understand on another level. I felt like I couldn't possibly understand the reality of corporate deal making and practice without practice.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So nothing is ever straightforward, especially for those of us who work in this field, right? So we all have our weird autobiographical trajectories. So when I was in law school, none of the stuff that I teach today existed. It just wasn't yet a thing on law faculties. So it was really my clients that taught me things. And I did know I wanted to be a law professor and I was secretly doing a PhD nights and weekends while I was in law practice. And so after four years of law practice, my alma mater gave me a teaching offer. And so I started as a non-tenure track faculty member, finished my dissertation, defended, then got my first teaching job at University of Florida, running an interdisciplinary tech center, but being a 10-year track faculty member on the law faculty. From there, the Wharton School had hunted me, so I taught at the Wharton School for a while and saw”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of the big firms are in that neighborhood straight down from the Chicago Board of Options. So jump ahead. So now you are a professor at Penn State. Yeah. So jump ahead. How did you get from there to Penn State?”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Security is the next generation of issues. And then I went to a seminar and learned about public key infrastructure and my head exploded and I was in love and that was it. What kind of tech companies were you working for when you're doing corporate law? Oh, you know, it was a mixed bag. So one client was a marketing firm that was doing some cutting edge digital marketing things, kind of a sad story. They ended up buying a dot-com and building an imprudent building that pushed them into bankruptcy. Okay. So that was an early formative experience for me as a corporate lawyer watching this publicly traded company fall into bankruptcy because of basically two imprudent business decisions, partially driven by the hype of the first tech boom. Interesting. Well, yeah, you'd have a great perspective on what's happening if you're in the legal departments. So were you based in DC then or out in the valley? No, I actually worked in Chicago. Okay. So I was right down the street, down La Salle where”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To that fascinating research and where we're going, and people will probably be slightly scared. Tell me a little bit about you, how you got started, where you're at, and the kind of research you do. Sure. So I started out as a corporate lawyer in the late 90s during the first tech boom and bust. And what I realized is that security was clearly the future. So I was working with everything from large publicly traded companies who were just starting up their investor relations websites to small startups that were creating different kinds of software, some of which was powering the exchanges. And particularly when I noticed how the financial services sector was starting to rely increasingly on software for the day-to-day of their operations and our markets, of course, and the SEC had already started making noises about some early regulation, I paused and I realized the bank robbers go where the money is. And so security.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, welcome to Reco Decode, Andrea. Pleasure to be here. I should say Dr. Andrea Matrician. It's all good. You earned that. I respond to all things that are vaguely in the realm of my name. Oh, you shouldn't. You should only respond to doctor. So welcome to Rico Decode. Let's just get this started. So I recently did an episode on biohacking. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, thank you and why Silicon Valley is so obsessed with and interested in hacking the body for some would say like optimal performance. And a few people on Twitter reached out to me and to Kara and said, oh my God, you need to talk to Andrea. She's doing super interesting research on like the next level of biohacking, which is this world in which you're not just optimizing your body by eating better food. You're actually optimizing your body by having like electronic tattoos or artificial pancreases, like actually things embedded in your body that make your body a piece of the internet, a piece of kind of the you say internet of bodies. So before we get into...”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Kind of worried, Erica. Oh, I was worried at all. I was worried when I did this. Conversation So, yeah, right. Well, the name definitely evokes the Internet of Things, but unlike, say, connecting your fridge or your light bulbs to the internet, this is about more personal and more permanent forms of integrating technology into your life or your body. And that's what Dr. Matuitian calls, quote, smart devices attached to and inside our bodies, end quote. And she's raising the alarm because our legal system and our policymakers probably aren't prepared to deal with the consequences of more of these devices entering our lives and our brains.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, well, you should definitely check it out. But the cheat sheet of this Why Silicon Valley loves biohacking is that I've recently become fascinated by how people in the tech community are treating their bodies the same way a hacker might treat a computer. So that first episode I did was focused on intermittent fasting, the controversial idea that drastic changes to your diet can make you more focused and productive.”
2019-12-04 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Andrea Matwyshyn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT