YouSaid · the spoken record
Anneliese Dodds
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On the record 2017–2026
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“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me explain to Conservative Members, because I feel they are perhaps unaware of the fact that the ICJ advisory opinion is simply the most eye-catching of a huge number of legal concerns around the present situation. Those who had the genuine security of that base at the front of their minds would be determined to secure its future. Without a deal, it is inevitable that Mauritius would pursue a legally binding judgment against UK sovereignty. Since 2015, 28 international judges and arbitrators have expressed views on the sovereignty of the Chagos archipelago. [ Interruption. ] Conservative Members are keen to shout. I wonder if they can tell me how many have agreed with the UK’s position. They are very quiet.”
House of Commons26 February 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗
“That is what is in our strategic defence interest, which the shadow Foreign Secretary mentioned. Without a negotiated solution—”
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“I note that when the right hon. and learned Gentleman talked about the potential for real-world consequences coming from legal uncertainty, some on the Conservative Benches laughed. We do not find this subject amusing; we view it as incredibly serious. If we do not have a deal with Mauritius, Conservative Members know that it would have every incentive to do a deal with someone else. We would face the risk of joint military exercises around the base—I did not hear a single word about that from Opposition Members. We would face the risk of other countries setting up outposts on surrounding islands, which appears not to be a concern for Opposition Members. We would also have the risk of hostile actors trying to interfere with crucial communications, and crucial communications they are.”
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“No, I will keep speaking, as is my right. Without a negotiated solution with Mauritius, it would pursue its legal campaign; it has made that very clear, as the shadow Minister knows. That would lead to an inevitable, legally binding judgment, which would be— [ Interruption. ]”
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“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, in that kind of situation, we would unfortunately see international organisations following that determination, such as the International Telecommunication Union. [ Interruption. ] I heard from the Opposition Front Bench, “Let them have a go.” The consequences of letting them have a go could be that critical spectrum for telecommunications that is essential for our security is compromised, another issue about which I sadly heard nothing from the right hon. Member for Witham. The legal necessity of this deal has rightly been recognised by successive Governments.”
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“I agree with the chuntering; it is risible that the Conservatives undertook 11 rounds of negotiations on this subject, and they simply will not admit to having done so. The right hon. Lady herself stated that that was something she could not speak about.”
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“I find the approach of Opposition Members to this subject to be very confusing. [Hon. Members: “Shocking.”] Some say shocking—I say confusing. Some Opposition Members have said that they cannot speak about those 11 rounds of negotiations. A moment ago, we heard an intervention stating that those negotiations must have been completely different in content, without spelling out why they were different. I find this a peculiar situation. Of course, there are many things that the Conservatives started that Labour did not want to continue—economic chaos and damage to our public services are some—but the Conservatives began those negotiations, and indeed had 11 rounds of them.”
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“I think that the ordinary general public would be pretty concerned about a situation in which we had the risk of joint— [ Interruption. ] Opposition Members laugh. They laugh about the risk of joint military operations around the base. They laugh about the risk of other countries setting up outposts on surrounding islands, and they seem unconcerned about the threat of hostile actors trying to interfere with crucial communications. Those matters are of concern to the public, and they are of concern to the Government.”
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“We did not do so then and we do not intend to do so now. We are of course engaging with the new US Administration, including discussing the full details of the agreement, just as we engaged with the previous US Administration. I find it rather strange that the Opposition are confused about the nature of modern negotiations. As we and Mauritius have said repeatedly, including in joint statements on 20 December and 13 January, both sides remain committed to concluding a deal on the future of the Chagos archipelago that protects the long-term effective operation of the joint UK-US base on Diego Garcia, continuing the practice of the previous Government. As is usual in these circumstances, negotiations have been led by officials with clear guidance and oversight from Ministers.”
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“Parliament will have the opportunity to scrutinise the details of the treaty after signature, when it is laid for scrutiny under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 process before ratification. We would be delighted to have the right hon. Lady’s scrutiny, as would be usual. To suggest that there was an acceleration of the negotiations before the Mauritian election flies in the face of the facts, as has been the case with many comments from the Opposition on this matter. When we took office, the negotiations had been ongoing for two years. We continued to engage with the Mauritian Government and to work in lockstep with the United States. While we recognise that it was in the interests of all sides to finalise the deal quickly, we did not put a completion date on the negotiations.”
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“He confirmed what this Government have been saying with clarity and consistency since the announcement of a political agreement in October, so let me spell out what we have said about the duration and terms of the treaty and what Prime Minister Ramgoolam confirmed, which appears to have been missed in previous comments. The deal will be for 99 years and can be extended if both sides agree. The UK will additionally have a right of first refusal, meaning that the islands cannot be given to any other country at the end of the treaty without us first agreeing, and there are no changes to the rights and authorities that we will have to operate the base.”
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“I do not want to embarrass the right hon. Gentleman, but he surely understands the difference with access to spectrum, which is the key issue here. It is critical. I find it strange that he allots that issue so little consideration, when it could be of such strategic importance to our country. The right hon. Member for Witham talked about remarks from Mauritian Prime Minister Ramgoolam. It appears that she has been spending a lot of time looking him up at length on the internet. I therefore find it rather strange that she did not see what he stated on 5 February, where he set the record straight about the terms of the deal. Perhaps she does know about this, but chose not to refer to it in her remarks.”
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“I am more than happy to go into the financial question in a few moments, because this too, sadly, is an issue about which the Opposition have been deeply confused. As for the question regarding the Attorney General, he met his Mauritian counterpart for a courtesy call. As was stated when he was in the UK in January, that meeting did not constitute part of the formal negotiations. I find it strange that the term “formal negotiations” is not understood by the Opposition; again, they are confused. On the broader question, the Attorney General has been clear that, as has been the case with every other Attorney General, whenever a conflict might be identified in any hypothetical circumstance, it would be dealt with as part of the proper process and he would recuse himself, if that were needed.”
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“I know that the right hon. Gentleman is honourable, and he may wish to reflect on his opening remark, because that was not his normal style at all. As for his question about finances, it is clear that a financial element was vital to securing a deal to protect the operation of such a vital base over the course of 99 years. If we do not pay—I will say it again—someone else will. Our adversaries would jump at the chance to establish outposts on the outer islands. There has been a lot of inaccurate speculation about the cost of this treaty.”
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“I know that the right hon. Gentleman understands full well that this is because of the legal uncertainty that is created by the current situation. That has been recognised time and again. It was the reason his Government engaged in 11 rounds of negotiations, and it is why there is this problem. I am surprised that Conservative Members are so unconcerned about the contestation that we see in that part of the world, and the need for our country’s interests to be put first.”
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“No, I will not take another intervention from the right hon. Gentleman. My response was very clear. On the subject of inaccurate speculation about the cost of the treaty, Prime Minister Ramgoolam has confirmed that the reports of a doubling in value are completely false. The overall cost of the deal has not changed from that negotiated with the former Mauritian Prime Minister. There have been some changes in the financial arrangements—”
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“Frankly, we heard wild enough ones earlier when the Leader of the Opposition had her say, and the Prime Minister explained that she was wide of the mark. Of course, as colleagues would expect, any funding arrangement and the departmental split of any costs arising from the treaty with Mauritius will be finalised through the spending review. I have to say that I am used to hearing some pretty wild maths from the Conservatives, and we had the true Tory kamikaze Budget of course, but they are surpassing themselves, because it is ridiculous to compare—”
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“I was just about to come on to that. There have been some changes to enable a limited element of front-loading, but the overall net present value of the treaty payments, which accounts for the impact of indexation, is not higher than it was. I will not press this point, because it would be very unfair to Opposition Members, but surely, when they talk about economic illiteracy, they are not falling into the trap of confusing timing with magnitude, because there is a pretty obvious difference between the two. We will provide more information on the departmental budgetary impacts in due course. The details will be set out when the treaty is laid before Parliament. We are seeing more bizarre claims about this issue even just within this debate.”
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“As we have already announced, we will finance a new trust fund for Mauritius to use in support of the Chagossian community. We will work with Mauritius to start a new programme of visits for Chagossians to the Chagos archipelago, including to Diego Garcia, and Mauritius will be free to develop a programme of resettlement on the islands, other than Diego Garcia.”
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“I will continue to explain why the Conservatives cannot compare speculative figures for the lifetime cost of a 99-year-long agreement to protect our national security with an annual uplift to defence spending that is the largest since the cold war. There is clearly a difference of many orders of magnitude, and I feel that they really need to reflect on the bizarre claims they are making. Although this has necessarily been a state-to-state negotiation, with our priority being to protect the base, we recognise the importance of the islands to Chagossians, and we have worked hard to ensure that this agreement reflects the importance of the islands to Chagossians. Some may say that it is farcical to talk about Chagossians, but I do not believe it is farcical.”
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“I do appreciate the kind tone in which the hon. Gentleman expressed his remarks. However, I would say, respectfully, that the running sore is the situation that has led to our country’s national security being subject to legal jeopardy because this issue had not been resolved. The Conservative Government, on whose Benches he sat, had 11 rounds of negotiations with Mauritius on this subject, and this Government have been determined to make progress for the sake of our national security.”
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“That is particularly important when it comes to protecting the islands’ biodiversity and ensuring they are protected against threats such as illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing activities.”
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“I could not have said it better myself. That is indeed the nub of the point. I want to inform the House that, separate from the agreement, we will increase our support to Chagossians who are living in the UK and around the world through new and existing projects. Another issue that has been of considerable interest to Members is the environment. We have secured a deal that will help to protect the unique environment of the Chagos archipelago—one of the world’s most important marine environments—to which both the UK and Mauritius have committed. The agreement will be supported by an enhanced partnership between the UK and Mauritius, under which the UK will support Mauritius’s ambitions to establish a marine protected area that protects the globally significant ecosystems in the Chagos archipelago.”
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“On the environment, I will lastly mention that the agreement, with its environmental focus, has been welcomed by instrumental conservation non-governmental organisations, including the Zoological Society of London.”
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“The hon. Gentleman is right to raise this issue. Of course, he will understand that the negotiations were between the UK and Mauritius, and that our priority was to secure the full operation of the base on Diego Garcia, as we have been discussing. We do recognise the importance of the islands to the Chagossians, which is why they were engaged with after this deal. It is important to respect the fact that there are different views within the Chagossian community. They do not speak with one voice; no community does. The Chagos Refugees Group, for instance—one of the largest Chagossian groups— has welcomed the agreement. We will continue to have those discussions with the Chagossian community, particularly those based in the UK.”
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“I will not be invited down any route by the Conservative party. We all know where that leads—to rack and ruin. Of course, the situation for many Chagossians has been very difficult. I know this is an issue of concern to many Members, particularly those who represent UK-based Chagossians. That is why, as I said, that engagement has been important.”
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“The shadow Foreign Secretary mentioned China in her remarks. Again, I know that Conservative Governments have been confused about China. They have oscillated all over the place in their relationship, but can she or anyone tell me whether China has welcomed this deal. No? A pin could drop, Madam Deputy Speaker. China has not welcomed it because it knows that it will strengthen our country’s position in the region for the foreseeable future. Security must be our priority, but we have also negotiated an agreement that protects the unique marine environment and reflects Chagossians’ demand. This deal will protect the base, solidify our relationship with our closest ally and reinforce the UK’s global leadership. Anyone who values UK national security and that of our allies should back this deal.”
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“What I have said is that there is clear risk to critical functions of that base on Diego Garcia because of legal jeopardy. Conservative Members do not appear to be aware of those issues for contractors, insurers and communications and from the risk of hostile states when it comes to the outlying islands, while the Government are concerned about that risk. I detailed earlier the 28 different judges and arbitrators who have expressed an opinion on this. To suggest that there is no legal jeopardy is, I am afraid, for the birds. To conclude, this deal has had support across the US national security apparatus. The previous US Administration supported the deal. The new US Administration is rightly ensuring that they are satisfied. The deal has been welcomed by India and the UN Secretary General.”
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“I have made that very clear previously. That carve-out for the Commonwealth is very clear within the ICJ. I think I looked at the right hon. Gentleman with a smile. If that is somehow looking at him in a “lecturely” way, I am terribly sorry.”
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“Investments in the Global Fund, Unitaid, UNAIDS—the Joint UN Programme on HIV/AIDS—the World Health Organisation and others have helped to cut new HIV infections by 60% since 1995 and AIDS-related deaths by 69% since 2004. I was pleased to meet HIV-positive activists in Parliament recently and to be videoed while undertaking a quick and easy HIV test. Together, we can eradicate HIV/AIDS.”
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“Tests and treatment are critical. I am pleased that the Prime Minister recently announced that, together with South Africa, the UK will co-host the eighth replenishment of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. The Global Fund is the leading financier of the global fight against HIV/AIDS, and we will work with Canada to draw attention at the G7 to the importance of the Global Fund replenishment.”
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“The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the importance of funding for global health. Of course, this is not just important for those directly impacted; it is important for us here in our country, because we know that diseases do not respect borders. I set out a few moments ago the fact that the Prime Minister is committed to that Global Fund replenishment, and rightly so.”
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“We condemn the Taliban’s appalling treatment of women and girls in Afghanistan. The Taliban must reverse their barbaric decrees, and we keep working hard with international partners to maintain collective pressure.”
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“The hon. Lady is absolutely right that the Taliban have been undermining so much of women’s and girls’ lives in Afghanistan. We are determined to support girls in Afghanistan, including when it comes to education. I have directly discussed that with the Aga Khan Foundation to ensure that support is getting directly to girls, but we also need to push hard politically. I was very pleased to announce that the UK is politically supporting the initiative to refer Afghanistan to the International Court of Justice for violations of the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women.”
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“I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her question, and for her passion for the protection of women and girls. Protecting them, and, indeed, religious and ethnic minorities, has been at the core of the UK’s engagement with the Syrian authorities. It was at the core of the interventions I made at the conference on Syria that I attended in Paris just a few days ago, and it is also very important in relation to the changes to sanctions that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary set out.”
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“The slave trade was abhorrent. We recognise its horrific impacts and the ongoing strength of feeling, but there have been no such discussions. As the Foreign Secretary made clear to the Foreign Affairs Committee after the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting, “There was no discussion about reparation and money. The Prime Minister and I were absolutely clear that we will not be making cash transfers and payments to the Caribbean”. We are focused on working with our Caribbean partners to tackle the most pressuring challenges of today and the future, including security, growth and climate change.”
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“We recognise that this is an issue of enduring concern to many. We listen to views from our Caribbean partners on the full range of bilateral issues, but our policy on reparations is clear: we do not pay them. We are determined to work together for the future.”
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“On 28 January we announced a further £17 million for healthcare, food and shelter, and to support vital infrastructure across the Occupied Palestinian Territories. This was an investment in the ceasefire, which must hold.”
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“I know that many Members on both sides of the House will share my hon. Friend’s revulsion and concern at those scenes. We are committed to working with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the United States and regional partners to build confidence in the ceasefire and support conditions for a permanent and sustainable peace, including Palestinian reconstruction. To support immediate needs, £2 million of the recently announced funding has been committed to critical water and energy infrastructure projects.”
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“I too have had such discussions, both in Tel Aviv and elsewhere. I recognise that there was particular concern about the events that led to the production of the Colonna report. As was mentioned earlier, there were disturbing allegations about the involvement of UNRWA staff, and there is also concern about reports that Emily Damari may have been placed within an UNRWA camp. We have taken this up with UNRWA, and have supported its reform agenda. It has delivered change, and it is the only organisation that can deliver the humanitarian support that is so desperately needed by millions of Palestinians.”
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“We remain desperately concerned about the humanitarian situation in Sudan. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has set out the measures taken by the UK to seek to ameliorate that appalling disaster, included a doubling of aid to Sudan.”
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“I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue, because the situation she has described is intolerable. I was grateful to the international counterparts who attended a discussion on these subjects, in which we took part, at the Munich security conference. My hon. Friend referred to the famine designation. We regret the fact that the Sudanese armed forces have said that they will not co-operate with that assessment, but we have seen both the RSF and the SAF restricting aid and using it as a weapon of war, and that must end.”
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“The hon. Member is right to raise the disturbing accounts of atrocities that we have heard. She will be pleased to know that the UK led efforts to renew the UN Human Rights Council fact-finding mission mandate last October, and I was very pleased to see additional African countries coming on board with that. We have doubled our aid to Sudan, so that commitment is not in doubt.”
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“Ending the conflict in Sudan, and the appalling consequences of it, is a UK priority. Both the Foreign Secretary and I have visited the region, including Chad and South Sudan. We have increased aid, and we have been determined to increase international attention. That includes the April conference to which the Foreign Secretary referred, but I also convened Development Ministers from a number of countries a few days ago, with the emergency relief co-ordinator, to try to pile on the pressure.”
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“I regret that we see both parties to the conflict behaving in a manner that is having a truly catastrophic impact on civilians—we see famine and appalling levels of conflict-related sexual violence—and the international community must step up. That is why the Foreign Secretary is seeking to convene leaders on this in April, why I have pulled together Development Ministers on this and why we have repeatedly raised these issues at the UN.”
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“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that important question. We have been working closely with Egypt, which has sought to support many of those requiring medical assistance. Across Government we continue to look carefully at this issue, but Gazans need healthcare support in Gaza, and the UK Government have been supporting that.”
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“To use the phrase that he rightly kept repeating, deadly diseases do not respect borders, nor does antimicrobial resistance, which he pointed to as another major challenge for us in global health terms. They threaten us all, and it takes a concerted international effort to tackle them, so we are working with countries around the world to help them develop the systems they need to tackle the health threats they face.”
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“He will be aware that we are in the middle of a spending round process, so I am not in a position to outline specific investment plans—I know he would not seek to encourage me to do that—but I want to reassure Members that this Government will be at the forefront of international work on improving global health as a priority for our country. It is the right thing to do, as the hon. Member for Winchester articulated, and it is the smart thing to do. No country can thrive if its people cannot thrive. In today’s interconnected world, we have all seen the impact of shocks in healthcare and communicable disease ripple right around the world. We saw that with the covid-19 pandemic above all, which harmed our health in the UK and all our global economies.”
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“This is an important part of how we fulfil every Government’s first responsibility: to keep people safe—the hon. Member for Winchester was right to refer to security in the context of this debate. It is also important for pursuing this Government’s guiding mission, which is to grow the economy and bring opportunity to people in our country, and to make progress towards our shared global goals for sustainable development during this decade. Our work on global health is crucial. Since I took up my role over six months ago, I have making been the case for action right around the world, on my visits to some of the countries most affected by the diseases that the hon. Member for Winchester talked about, and at major global summits.”
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“I point out that these are early days for the new Administration, and it would not be appropriate—I know Members would not expect us to do this—for us to give a running commentary on each announcement and executive order issued by the US Government. Members will know that the US has a strong track record in global health and international development, and we have enjoyed close bilateral co-operation with it in pursuit of our shared objectives in this area. I was pleased to hear the hon. Member for Winchester rightly refer to that collaboration. Naturally, we are very keen for that to continue. For our part, this Government are committed to working with others through genuine, respectful partnerships with donors, multilateral organisations and countries across the global south, so that we maximise our impact at home and overseas.”
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