YouSaid · the spoken record

Barry Friedman

lines on the record: 123
first: 2019-11-25
most recent: 2019-11-25
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Exactly. Let's figure out when we're going to use it and when we're going to not, who has access, making sure that the technology is not reasonably biased.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But there's an image. Well, that image could lead you to the person that's doing that, and it might be that we want to do that. Now, at the same time, we don't want to do that for jaywalking or selling a little bit of weed on the corner or lots of other things, but we might want it for really serious crimes. And so this is the lawyer in me, forgive me. But that's what law exists to do, which is to say, here's some rules.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, there's a push in cities not to use it, but I want to just suggest that's a mistake too, right? This pendulum just keeps flying back and forth and there has to be a middle. So technology has benefits and we should be able to figure out what the benefits are. I'm going to give you an example of one in just a moment. But it has costs. I just went down a list of things we should care a lot about. And the trick, this is what we think at the policing project, is that you need to look at the benefits, figure out what they are, then think about the costs and asks, can you minimize or eliminate those costs in a way that you get some benefits? So for example, let's say that you have a series of really serious muggings on subway platforms and you can't get the person.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, yes, right, yes, yes, for sure. All right, so with facial recognition, there's the states and cities across the country that are putting laws against police using them. Where are we with that? Because one of the things is, one, the technology companies seem to be putting out there without thinking of the ethics behind it and not wanting to think about it. Two, you have deployment with some using it wrong, using products incorrectly. There was the ACLU test of faces of members of Congress wrong, again, typically wrong. Just using it wrong. And then the technology being flawed in terms of how it's deployed. And so a lot of cities are trying to not use it.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We need to get together and talk about that. So, what happens is eventually they're not as useful for that. So we start to use them for a lot of other things, including, let's enforce outstanding parking tickets and outstanding warrants because somebody hasn't hated them. White neighborhoods. There'd be plenty of people who haven't paid their parking tickets there, right? So, yes, right, yes, yes, for sure. So yes, you're exactly right. The instinct is right, which is that we need to focus on the technology and let us actually figure out how to police more fairly.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, license plate readers are interesting, actually. So, initially, they're designed to help us catch stolen cars. You'll get a ping on your cop cars saying that licenses a stolen car. I always thought that was a little weird. I mean, I don't know a lot about stealing cars, but I would change the license, right? Exactly, exactly.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Where we want to put the police there. It was interesting because I was talking about AOI is a very similar thing. If you put dirty data in, we'll get the dirty data in a minute. You're going to get dirty data. And then, by the way, black people are probably criminals. Let's put people in areas, in African-American, poor African-American communities, and then we'll catch more people. But of course, you would catch more people if you were in a different community, you might catch more people too, but you're not there. It was really, and I kept saying if you put bad data in, you're going to make decisions based on bad data.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because that's where the cop cars were. And so we should be able to see that and then react to it and say, is that where we want to put the police there?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Around facial recognition. Sure. So their privacy, their racial bias, their overcriminalization, we don't want the cameras to be nailing every Jaywalker. They are interference with First Amendment freedoms. They're not rocket science here. Then there's auditing and compliance because I think that's one place where the tech can help us a lot, which is, you know, we were talking about paper and police before the cops sitting there checking boxes off on a piece of paper, but the tech doesn't need that. The tech can just tell us when it was used and who used it and where it was used. And so we ought to have automatic reporting from the tech to the community about where the text is being used. For example, the electronic freedom frontier EFF. Thank you. Did this really cool thing where they took license plate reader data and they created heat maps to show you where in the city the license plate readers were being used? And predictably they were being used in communities of color.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He was there, and there were people from the NYPD, and those folks shouldn't be on campus. And I think it was a bit eye-opening for him because he and I then talked about a technology I can't mention just yet, but you'll see in the fall. And his thinking had just changed 180 in the sense of thinking, what if we designed it this way to protect against that? Or what if we designed it this way to protect against that? And he's better at it than I am. He's living in the technology world. And so I actually think that if we have a set of ethical things that we can specify, that we care about, it is possible to design those.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Have spent a lot of time talking to folks, Rick Smith, the CEO of Axon, came to the law school to present some of his book. It was fun. We even had a little protest.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so the idea is that how would this get abused? That should be the first thing. Because whenever I mention these on lots of products that they make in Silicon Valley, they're like, you know, you're a bummer. There's all these good things. Like we can do two bac a bomb, like, or whatever. I'm like, but yeah, you could. But, you know, bullying, murder, things like that. So can you get them to change that concept? Have you spent a lot of time with technology companies?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's profound at some level. It changes what you build, how you market it, how it's used, and that's how we all have to start thinking.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Our view is know you're a product. You want to be a product and you want to design it in a way that does limit what the customers do. You need to be responsible. And the second thing we have pushed them all to think about, and this is for me fundamental, is you think that your customer is a police department, but that's wrong. Your customer is the community that that department serves. And when you start thinking about the customer as the community...”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, you are absolutely right. And so I'm just going to take you back to our very first Axon board meeting. I think I'm perfectly fine saying this, which is exactly that debate, which is that the Axon initial perspective was we make the products, we put them out there, people do with them what they will. And in fact, what the last thing that those customers customer being police department want is to be told what to do with the product. And from the beginning, the board pushed back on that and said, that's the wrong way to think about this two ways. First,”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I found a disturbing interview in terms of him saying, and I don't mean to paraphrase him, I like Anty Jassy a lot, but we're not responsible for the product, the people using it are. Like essentially, and to me, architecting it wrong from the beginning means that your users might use it in a way that you never anticipated. I drumbeat on this idea not unanticipated consequences. You should be able to anticipate consequences and then architect it into the system at the beginning so it doesn't happen. So talk a little bit about facial recognition and where we are, because I think people are justifiably scared of it. There's laws across the country that everybody has a different sort of approach to it. I think everyone basically agrees that this could really be abused. You don't have to watch Black Mirror to know that.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's like getting software, except it's quantumly more dangerous for people. Should you use this software Slack? It's not the same exact thing. It's a lot like that, yeah. Yeah. Like they're doing. So getting quickly then to is facial recognition, which is sort of the new ugly situation on the block. I just interviewed Andy Jassy from Amazon.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very little. There's a few states that have stepped in to try to do things. There are departments that some of them have policies that govern what they do. Some of them don't even have policies. And their lives is that every day there's a new vendor showing up at their doorstep with a new shiny thing that says, look, isn't this cool on how you can spy on people? And, you know, we're working with police departments now because their heads are exploding. They're trying to figure out. What should we acquire? Is the community going to go crazy?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I mean, I think what you do is you start to regulate. Start to put in place laws, policies for police departments that regulate data collection, data retention, data usage, data access. It's complicated, it's wildly complicated. But at some level, it's not unfamiliar. I mean, we do know how to regulate things like this, and there are laws in other areas. We just have to start applying.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is the ring thing, right? I've been reading stories like everybody else where a ring is been has quietly working at police departments to share that footage. And so look, I think the whole thing's completely out of control. My bottom line, if you want the bottom line, is the only thing I haven't decided is whether to use an analogy of the, you know, trying to get the cows back in the barn or toothpaste back in the tube because one of those is easier to do than the other. And it worries me enormously. But there's no doubt but that this is all rushed way ahead of our capacity to protect our privacy, our First Amendment freedoms, racial bias, and we have got to just stop right now and figure out what to do.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's not, I mean, it's complicated. A lot of it is private, right? And so I can stick a camera in front of my house, I guess, and everybody's doing that.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Versus the teen over there sexting on there Yeah, I mean, I just want to say back to you, you just said to me. Where is the law? It is a great question. Where is the law? There is mostly no law. And ironically, the law is a little perverse because it's way behind, so states have public records laws. So to extend their public cameras, even if we don't want the footage retained, there may be laws that make it difficult to get rid of the footage. But we need law. That's what the policing project is all about.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Who's your favorite Yeah, and negotiate. It's interesting. Sometimes I do. I had a thing where in Apple's doors when I spent a lot of money at Apple stores, and I would like them to know when I come in, if I agree to it, of who I am so they can sort of lick me up and down versus the teen over there sexting on theirs. It's like, he gets to, I want first access to the Apple 11 rather than they know who the customer. But you're right, it should be a consensual kind of relationship. But cameras are inevitable. Where is the law on these, all the different kinds of cameras?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think it's creepy. I read Kaifu Lee's superpowers book and he was talking about, isn't it great? You can go to the grocery store and it knows who you are and the wine person comes running up to you to say, here's your favorite wine. And I thought, I do not want anybody to know who I am in the grocery season. Yeah, in the grocery store.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, but with cameras now, we'll get into China in the last part, but there are cameras everywhere, everywhere in the cities on every corner and how you look. And then obviously people have cameras. And then citizens have cameras like the rings and things like that that are always taking pictures of something. So again, one would imagine that's probably a good thing because you could see, and then there's sensors everywhere, like of what's going on. So again, are you ambivalent or do you think this is...”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and in a way, not in a blaming, we're going to discipline you way, which is a problem with policing in America, which is that we're always looking to slap somebody for something. But in a, you know, how we do kind of sentinel review in other fields, whether it's aviation or medicine, do rounds where you sit there and you say, I had this tough case, this has happened, and people sit around and say, you know, you could have handled that better. You could have done this. Did you think about doing that? So I really wish that we'd get to that point of being of we and policing being less defensive and being able to learn to do this better.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't want to be the next video, right? And I get that. And I'm sympathetic to cops. I understand that that is a concern. On the other hand, there are public servants out on the street. We shouldn't be perfectly aware of what they're doing. What's unfortunate is that, again, the data thing, we don't figure out how to aggregate all this and learn from it. Like one of the best uses from cameras could be training.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think it's affected cops a lot, and some for the good and some for the bad. They don't like them up, I'll tell you that. No, no, they don't. And I think it took a long time for the police to understand that they had to just back off and let people do it. And, you know, now I think what they'll say is that they won't do certain things, that maybe they feel that they should do because they're being watched and they don't want to garner.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, that's what I was going to ask. Now, there's cameras everywhere. First of all, there's way too many of them in the cities, and we're going to get to that next. And then there's people's handheld. Everybody has a camera in their phone. So how has that impacted it in terms of?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's difficult to do. I mean, we do, you know, there have been incidents where cops have said X happened and there was a tower that had a camera on it or there was the barbershop that had a camera out in front.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was a really interesting thing. I saw that California Sunday magazine did a voice. They did a lot of voice taping of stops and things like that on top of it. I think it's separate. There might be a separate voice anyway, how police talk to people during traffic stops. And what was really interesting was the difference. Then they did word clouds and the way they talk to people of color versus white people was, and they put it together and you're like, what?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With a camera watching, people will calm down. We'll have lower use of force on both sides. Transactions will be more civil. And the data's just really mixed on that. And we have spent a kingstone. It was interesting.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And even now, you know, if you think about it, that camera on the cop is holding up my hands here, aim at you, is aimed at you. It's not aimed at the cop. And so a lot of the use of those cameras quickly becomes evidence in criminal proceedings. So, you know, the promise of the cameras, the hope of the cameras was”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're very widespread and they're going to be much more widespread. And I'm ambivalent about whether they're a good thing. I think in theory they're a good thing, and I think they are going to become a norm. I think the minute we start putting surveillance on those cameras, it's going to be a disaster.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's union pressures to not release it. Prosecutors feel like it shouldn't be released until they've made a charging decision. But, you know, in LA, it would take them three years to make the charging decision.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, that's the broken back-end system that we were talking about. And I think that that's true. But one project we did with the LA Police Commission and the LAPD was just to figure out what's the rule for when to release the video after there's been an officer involved shooting. Very controversial issue. Body camera is not very valuable if you don't get to see what happened. And the end result of that was a rule that the LAPD put in place that now is the law of the state of California about releasing video.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that was pretty great. All right. So body cameras themselves is a thing, it's just they take pictures and that they're supposed, the idea was accountability so we could see what they did. Not that anyone cares sometimes. That's what's really fascinating. And people also, you know, probably the biggest problem around those would be either they break or police meddle with them so they can get rid of the thing or people don't have the ability to manipulate those images in some fashion. That's sort of the forest fetch thing. But it's there. You could look at deepfakes. You never know what people could do with deep.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, the Wii is a really diverse group of police officials, of sort of national advocates, of tech experts. We have one person right now from affected community, but we're bringing on a couple others. We have struggled to make it as diverse as we possibly can in every way. I have been really struck by the consensus in the room around things, and we look for that consensus. And our first report, I basically think did two things. First is it laid out a methodology for how to think about policing technologies and what we need out of them. And the second thing that it did was it strongly recommended that Axon not put facial recognition on body cameras, and then we felt that nobody should put facial recognition on body cameras. And Axon has agreed to that. So that was pretty great.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And turn it to good. So Axon said, you know, we're going to stand up this ethics board. And I had some skepticism a lot, perhaps, but I was intrigued by the idea of being able to sit with the vendors and think about the products that they make. At the policing project, when we think about policing technology out of control, what we've tried to do is find the fulcrum or the pressure point where we can have an impact, whether it's police departments or procurement in cities. And one of them is tech companies, because tech companies are the ones producing the goods. They could design them in certain ways that would make them better for society. They could make products rather than platforms so that they had some control over what their downstream users are doing. So we were intrigued and we agreed to be on the ethics board. There were a number of people from the Civil Liberties community that wanted to stay away. They didn't want to get that close to a tech company. They didn't want to sign an NDA. But we did. We jumped in.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, Axon is the largest manufacturer of police body cameras. They also were formerly known as Taser International, and they make tasers. And they approached us. I can't even remember now how long ago, and they had this idea of putting together a board, an ethics board. And we actually pitched them on something back that they did not do, but that I think we ultimately need in the country, which is something like underwriters labs for police technologies that certifies the ethical compliance with police technology. Love to work with somebody to make that happen because I actually think that's what we need. You know, in the absence of...”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, it's an interesting place to start because you think, well, body cameras are good. I mean, we got those for good. We got those to hold police accountable. But as you know from the work we've done on the Axon AI Ethics Board, the next story was, well, we're going to put facial recognition on body cameras.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's important, my colleague Ann Milgram is doing this with health data. Who are the frequent flyers in the healthcare system and do they relate to the people and the criminal system? I mean, a lot of one of the huge problems we face as a country is that we have criminalized a lot of things that the criminal law is just no answer for. So whether it's substance abuse, homelessness, we're not going to fix that with the criminal law. Domestic violence, I mean, domestic violence is a role for the criminal law for sure. But when you look at the data, and I have been staring at the data, the chronicity of this, you know, the times that the police are called 10 times to the same house, well, I mean, that is just bizarre. And that is a failure of correlating data, trying to understand a holistic way to solve these problems.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Municipal And then what to do because it gives you tips on how to police better. Kamala Harris did something in San Francisco where they were noticing the school behavior was indicative of later criminal. It was a really interesting, like keeping people in schools and how to keep people and people who kids that didn't miss school more. And they started to track those which were linked to, it was really interesting. And then they would place prosecutors with school officials so that it had, they missing school became a became a focus, which was interesting. It was controversial for sure.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, well, I mean, they do have software, and I don't, you know, this is like municipal, you need to interview people for municipal data centers, but they have legacy systems. They don't talk to each other, right? So you've got one system that's noticing what the police are doing kind of in their workdays, and you've got another system that's been booked, and you have systems that figure out outcomes. So one thing you might want to know is if you're arresting a bunch of people, what's the downstream effect? Like, how many of those cases get dismissed or people recidivists? And even getting that kind of data is incredibly difficult.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It would be great to even know what was going on inside the silo. Imagine if we could actually know things from silo to silo, if we could have a sense of a picture of a whole state and what was going on. I think we would really learn some things about what works, if you allow me one more word. I came into policing like a lot of people do, just worried about the arrests and the stops and the shootings and all of that. But the closer I got to it, and this is where all my scholarship is now, it's about policing itself. And when you get close to policing, you realize how little the police actually know or have a concept of how to keep us safe, of what to do, which is why.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The barrier initiative. You know, we talk to tech companies, and I say this all the time, and I keep wishing that a light bulb would go off with one of them. It's a business opportunity. It is a business opportunity, and you need to run into the market. And there are companies that work on parts of this. There's Mark 43, which is a company we partner with that does records management systems and computerized dispatch records. And they're really trying to make headway. I think they're one of the best. But there has been this overall just neglect to try to figure out, and by the way, I'll just make the point. So there's 18,000 departments each in their own silo.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, you can email it to me Or something like that. So it's in pieces. I just recently did a podcast with someone who does agriculture data. Same thing Very much this stuff how we grow things, where we grow things, and when you can replicate things, it's just not all on paper and globally it gets even more complex. And it can be done in a smart way. So we don't have how they're behaving, how they're performing, anything else. And there's no initiative to do this.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There is no initiative of any sort. The Obama administration had an open That's optimistic. And I think departments in part were embarrassed to participate because of the quality of their data. I'll tell you a story that actually blew my mind. So early on in all of this work, very concerned about the racialized nature of pedestrian and whatever stops and wanted to collect data about it. I just was curious to see what it looked like. We're thinking, where could we get data? So one place we could get data was that there were departments that were either operating under consent decrees or some of the states had laws that required keeping data. We just called them up and said, can we have the data? And some departments were, sure, we'd be glad to share it. What's your fax number?”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And we're going to get to this later, obviously, but there is a tension here because on the one hand, I think police and policing and this whole field are starved for data. I mean, there's just a list of things we don't know about that we really should. And on the other hand, if they have too much data and there's too much sharing, then we have real risks about being able to track us and whatnot.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Rational data system. Right. I mean, I was just listening to I'll be gone in the dark. And what was fascinating to me was how disorganized. Like they probably could have caught this guy if there was more coordination among the disparate police. And that was literally every third sentence like they didn't know what was going on up in Santa Rosa. And I was like, why didn't they know what was going on? It was fascinating. And that seems to be the case with not just criminal data, but the movement of police themselves.”
2019-11-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Barry Friedman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT