YouSaid · the spoken record

Bob Moesta

lines on the record: 103
first: 2025-02-23
most recent: 2025-02-23
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Know if they're that simple, but I think the notion of the next step is to make sure it's a big enough step. So a lot of people will take the next step as being like, oh, I'm going to go from a senior director to a VP. And it's like, you know, is it really the next step that you have to be a VP or is it that you need the next step to go from sales to marketing? And so part of it is helping you to redefine kind of what that step is and what And ultimately in that situation, the next step is about, I always say, what's your next next job? Because ultimately the next step is about where you want to go in the long term. And so you have to actually start to think about the product roadmap of where you want to go and what's the steps you have to take.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've actually told people, like I've talked to somebody who just got out of a startup and just like, I need a job creation. Here's what that means to me. Are you willing to hire me? They're like, yes. And so because they know they don't have to pay them the full salary they're paying, it's not about money, it's about actually being able to go to the gym and work out and have some vacations and like just almost, I am a big proponent that when you're in a startup it changes who you are and the moment that you get out of that environment, you need to go to take the time to reset your mind and your body back to who you really are because at some point it's not you. It's the combination of the context you're in. And so once you pull you from the context, I tell people, especially like people who have exited a company, I tell them like, you got to take a year off and you got to actually get comfortable doing nothing because the moment you get comfortable doing nothing, you know who you are again and you can actually figure this out. Because if you just try to go start something right after you did the other, it's just like you think everything's easy and it's not.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But this is where people go like, oh, I should be a director. It's like, you know what? If you're exhausted, sometimes you just put a time limit on it and say, I'm going to go do this show. And by the way, they're so appreciative to have you because you're literally working in a place where you're probably one of the smarter ones or you're one of the more experienced ones. And the reality is like they'll do a lot more than you think. And so they were so happy to have me as part of this organization. And I learned a lot and I was able to rebuild my relationship. I was very thankful for that opportunity in my life. But there was a point where it's like, yeah, okay, I'm rested, ready to go. Got it. Got to move on.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But the fact is, I wanted to work there for a year. I ended up working there for four years. I could be home every night for dinner. I didn't have, I lost all my status on the airlines. I literally was able to rebuild my relationship with my family. It was amazing, but it was literally a job creation because the industry was so I was applying all these very advanced concepts to building homes and we grew from 100 homes to 400 homes in three years. And so it's this aspect of it was a lot of fun, but it was like I was able to kind of do a job creation around that.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My job case was I had done three startups and then I started a small private equity firm around 2000. I ended up raising some money, but the fact is the internet bubble burst. And so it was about buying things for 10 cents on the dollar and selling them for 20 cents on the dollar. I hated it. I absolutely hated it. And I was traveling like all over the world doing all these different things, but it was just, it was just so demanding. And my family suffered. And so it got to the point.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Seats. And so it's like I always say if legal and finance had a baby, it would be HR. That's not fair to, that's not true for all of them, but the fact is that that's how most of them come to be is because there's a lot of paperwork and it's about basically making sure you know how to treat people fairly and to make sure that you're doing. But most of the time when you go to HR to complain, they're just taking notes.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It depends on the quest you're in. So, for example, if it's a get out situation, it's like I actually need to go find a, so I call it a job cation, which is a job I can go do with one hand tie by a hide in my back so I can rest and recover to go do something else. And so you start to realize there's these different kind of, you know, there's there's a there's a sidestep to build some skills and do some other things. And so you start to realize it really depends on the quest they're on that actually then dictates kind of what are the things that they need to do. And again The average person stays at a job four years. And so you have to realize like it's not it's not like at least our parents were at least my parents my parents worked for one company their entire life and so you start to realize like this is this is now a skill that we have to learn how to do and let's be clear nobody's helping you navigate this but you if you think HR is there to help you navigate this it's I would tell you that they're not they're they're their job is to manage risk and to fit”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To say it out loud helps them actually figure out which direction they want to go. And they usually have a gut feel for what they want to do. And at the same time, they have a rational part that basically it's like that, hey, I'd like to do this, but I got to do this now. And you just realize like people just have to make the decision that they can live with, right?”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The only thing that I say has really been powerful. It's just helping people see the tradeoff. Like they don't actually take the time to look at like this job is going to be more money, which, but I'm going to be doing more mundane things. Do I want more money? And because again, that entrepreneur is like, I can make more money so I can save money for my startup that I want to do. Or I can go here and learn what I need to do. And it was agonizing, right? It was back and forth of how do I figure that out. And ultimately, this is the hard answer I would say is we're all adults. And as adults, we don't ever get all we want and we have to learn how to make trade-offs. And what I've learned is that I turned 60 this year. And the more I actually get comfortable with making tradeoffs, the fact is the more satisfied I become. And so part of this is that when you think you're supposed to get it all, the fact is the less satisfied you are. And so I think just helping people frame it and be able.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The experience they're going to get and the potential, and the other problem I realized is that when you overpay people, What happens is that they actually become more and more scared that they'll lose it and then they become more and more conservative because they don't want to rock the boat and they actually don't work, they do what they're told as opposed to do what they should do. And so you start to realize that money has a very interesting impact on behavior. And I have not studied it in any great fashion. There's many people who have studied more than me, but that observation of like when I overpay people, they're all about like, I just don't want to not get my bonus and you better make sure that I can and you start to realize like, but they don't know what it takes to get the bonus. And so you start to realize like trying to innovate when everybody's only around bonuses that pulls up. They love to do this work. Usually when they love to do the work, they get more bonus.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've realized, and this is another kind of insight, is I can actually, and this is. And so I always see this as like I don't expect anybody to be with me forever, though people have been with me for a long time. It's one of those things where every year we sit down and talk about what's progress mean to you and how do we actually figure it out and ultimately I've added some offerings to my business that I would never do, but I know that this other person who works for me wanted to actually do more coaching. And I'm like, okay, we brought in three coaching clients and basically she loved it and that gave her basically more energy. And so part of it is to make sure that I can adapt to basically keep her here and make sure that she's making progress.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like, which one do you want? And he ended up taking the job with the entrepreneur to teach him, but he actually went in and said, like, I'm taking this job. I have this other job for this other money. I'm giving up this much money so I can learn from you. And he said, fine, I'll make you chief of staff. And ultimately, he said, and you're here for two years so you can be a founder. So they actually reframed the job to literally fit him. And then what I told him is, you can't go back and bitch about the money because you made the trade off to do it. So you can't go like, oh, God, I should get more money. It's like, this is how it is and this is a choice you made. Live with it. And now like, but put a time frame on it. And so it's these trade-offs that are really, really important in actually landing the job because most people want it all. And I mean, if you look back in your career, you never got it all. And so the other part is to realize like a side gig or a hobby or these other things can actually supplement some of those other energy drivers you get from basic.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And ultimately, the biggest thing is about the trade-offs you have to make. No job is perfect, and ultimately people are looking for the thing that checks all the boxes. And you start to realize like nothing checks all the boxes. So what are you willing to give up to get? And so like I was coaching somebody a while ago who basically was an entrepreneur and he was at one company and he had been there for five years. They had gone from basically being a, I'll say, nothing to basically being over 100 million, but it wasn't small anymore. And he's like, I want to be a founder someday. So I want to take the next step. But the reality is like, I think I want to go work for one more entrepreneur. And so they basically went for, he got like four or five job offers. He could make, he got one being an engineer somewhere and it was like, you know, paying $350, $400. And he had another job where he could actually be work next to is almost like the chief of staff of a very well-known entrepreneur and he would learn a lot. And so the question is, and it was like 200.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Part of it is the push actually gives you the energy to look, but you have to have the pulls on the other side to know which direction to go. Think of it as like a compass. And so these quests help you understand am I going north? Am I going south? Am I going east? Am I going west? Do I need control? Do I need alignment? Do I need to get out? Do I need to take the next step? And ultimately, based on that, that's going to shape kind of how we actually then load your strengths, your energy drivers, your energy drains, there, and how we're going to aim this thing. So it's about aiming where you go next.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're both. So the thing is, there's got to be a push, and then at some point, if there's just push and there's no pull, the reality is that then you're just going to bitch about your job.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Here's the thing job descriptions should really be here's the context we're in, here's what this role is about, here's what progress means in this role, and here's how we will actually reward you for actually doing this work. And it's just not that way. And so, again, I'm working on another part extension of this book around just helping companies implement this. And so it's so fascinating. It's like a thread that just keeps pulling. I keep pulling.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It literally, it's all pre programmed and everything else. And she's like, Oh, I'm out, right? And so it's helping them actually kind of put the rubber to the road on some of these notions because most people start applying for jobs, but they really don't know what they are. And so what I would tell you is one is, as somebody looking for a job is distill your skills, distill what gives you energy, distill those things and make sure you're clear on those go wide and find what many different industries that can do it. Go talk to friends, people who have these jobs, and start to realize what they are and narrow down to one area that you really feel like you can actually go to that's going to give you the outcomes that you want. And so it's this notion of prototyping very wide to learn and then using it to narrow and then basically figure out kind of the real one, the real thing you want to go after and why you want to go after it.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In a financial corporation, oh, I got to find another financial company. But if you're good at marketing and you like what you do, you can go to a lot of different places. And so it's this notion of starting by doing what we call informational interviews to other jobs that are out there. So it's like, so I was coaching somebody and I said, all right, we're going to have this person that was the neuroscientist. It's like, all right, we're going to go find somebody who's in that geo coordinator. We're going to go to LinkedIn and find somebody who either had the job or has the job. And you're going to interview them to say, what's it like to have this job? And this does two things. It gives you practice talking about yourself and talking to other people, which most people haven't done in a long time. And the other part is it allows you to start to put yourself in that situation and go like, hmm, well, this really worked for me or not. And it turned out the fact is like, she was thinking she could travel and she could do science and she could help people, you know, be a teacher or do it. And it turns out the Nat Geo coordinator is just like a traveler.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the first thing I would say is when you can distill this down to the things that give you energy and what you're good at, the thing that I think has been most powerful is, again, like treating you like a product, how do we prototype different job positions for you? So how do we think of you? So I was talking to somebody or I was coaching somebody who was a neuroscientist and they had just come back from Ireland and they were running this big lab and they got burnt out and they came and basically took a job at a hospital. And as she started to talk about what gave her energy and not, we said, well, what about being a design researcher? What about being a national geographic coordinator? What about, so it's this notion of prototyping wide? Because what we realize is most people don't feel like they have agency to go anywhere else. And the reality is if you're really good at the things you're good at, they're used in a lot of other places. And so you'd think, boy, if I'm in finance or I'm in marketing and”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's the other part you start to realize how many people look around. One of the big pushes is when I look around and I don't want my boss's job and I don't know where to go next. And the fact is what happens is an opening comes up and they put you into a position that you don't want. And then you're like, I don't really want to do this. And so ultimately a lot of this starts when they can't see where they can grow and go. And so it starts to realize like, and that's where a lot of the starts. And so letting people understand what they can do and where they can go is really, really important. And again, we'll get to that. But that's a big one.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So all of a sudden, you start to realize that feature, which was really important in the beginning, ends up being kind of a push in the end because it's like, hey, I haven't gotten promoted in a while.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This awesome time on salary. We need to map the features to the experiences that actually make it happen because features are actually static. Your job title, but if I get the title, I can impress others. I can make people think that it makes me feel like I'm making progress is to go from a director to a VP, right? And so part of it is that I actually understand why do you want that feature and what is it going to do for you? And so it's this notion of, again, action as opposed to most features are static. And so what does it actually do for you? What happens through time is that title will wear down over time. And so it has a depreciation to it that now I've been a VP. Now I got to be a C level person.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The job to fit the person, and you start to realize I can change the design of the job, and now they love what they do, they're never going to leave, right? And so you start to realize like it's about actually understanding how to do that, which is, I think, really, really powerful. And I have some companies that are trying, starting to do that. And the results are kind of crazy. Productivity is through the roof, like all these different crazy things.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then they'll think of all the stuff they don't want to do, and they put that in there. And so the reality is if you actually start to look at it and say, like, hey, I can do these 15 things, but there's these five things that will literally take all my energy. Is there any way we can think about where I get more of the stuff I can do versus the stuff that I really suck at? And most people don't want to say it, but when they actually do it, it's amazing because people go like, oh yeah, I get that. Okay, we can actually give this off to somebody else. It's crazy. So this is the other part is Like I look at the industry and they've tried to automate the resumes, which is like, it's all the stuff you did. It's not the stuff you want to do. And then you end up matching it to a resume or to a job description, which is like a unicorn. We're trying to find a unicorn. And then ultimately, we're trying to get people to fit the job. And you start to realize that nobody fits that job perfectly and there's too many trade-offs. But if you actually reframe this and say, how do I get the...”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. And so one of the things I'm trying to teach people now is to use AI to help them with the energy drains. Because most people, like the one thing I've learned is that I grew up as an engineer and as an engineer was like everything should be a process. But what I've learned is if I wrap a process around something I love to do, I actually ruin it. But if I wrap a process about something I really hate to do, it actually and gamify it. I can actually get through it. And so lots of times you start to realize there's these little tricks you learn along the way that help you do that. But I would say paying attention in your day-to-day life about what like just reflect on the day and say, where did I get energy today and where did my energy get drained will just help you start to articulate those things? Because when it comes down to it, here's the craziest part to me of one of one of the crazy parts is the job descriptions are made up. They're literally just made up. And there are a list of stuff that the manager will say, all right, we want them to do this.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, this is where you have to go beyond. This is where you have to abstract it beyond the beach. Why do you like to go to the beach? This is where you have to go. So there's three layers of language I talk about. One layer is the Pablom layer. I love to go to the beach. It's like, okay, but you have to understand, well, why do you love to go to the beach? Oh, I love the sun. I love the waves. I'm like, okay, but like when you go to the beach, where do you get like tell me about a day with the beach where you got energy and tell me about a day at the beach where you didn't get energy? It's like, oh, and there's a lot of people around. Oh, I like to be around people. So it's about abstracting it down to a level of causation so you understand what causes the beach to be a fun place. And most people just stay up at the problem layer and they don't really dig deep enough to understand what causes it to say why they like the beach. And so we talk about that in the book in terms of how do we unpack the language so you understand the causal mechanisms.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I suck at and or love the stuff that I drains my energy because ultimately that's the diversity of a team that actually makes it really work. And so instead of trying to, most people try to hire people like themselves. And that actually is where it goes wrong because then you end up with a very large blind spot where ultimately if you start to realize what you're good at, what you suck at, what gives you energy, what sucks your energy, and start to really complement it with other people. So like my business partner of 25 years is my exact opposite. What I love to do, he hates to do what he loves to do, I hate to do. All practical purposes, we should not get along, but he's my best friend. And ultimately, the fact is we trust each other enough so he knows what not to give me. And when something comes on my plate that he knows that is really hard for me to do, he'll take it off and say, let me give you a draft and you can look at this. I'm like, oh, perfect. And so these are the kinds of things you really start to think about.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, learning, there's one about basically helping others. So, one of mine that gives me energy is what I call a maximizer or an individualizer. Like I really love to basically help people find their way. And so everybody who's ever worked with me or have coached in my life, it's about me being able to figure out who they are and where can they go. And so this book is a natural extension of that skill that I have and that I like to do. And so it's one of, it's not surprising I got here, but like I never would have guessed that I would have ended up in the HR space trying to help people find their work. So drains can be everything from like the root. Some people love the routine and gives them energy and other people hate the routine. It actually sucks their energy. And so you start to realize like this is the part of building a team is that when I start to realize the things that drain my energy and I suck at, I should actually find my teammates that actually love to do this.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, for example, like again, somebody always coached me, they love to learn and they realize that the fact is once they learn something, it's kind of like it becomes boring to them. And so this notion of being able to actually learn on a regular basis and have ongoing things. And so we talked about”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“An X amount of energy, and when you came out of it, you actually had 2x, 3x, 4x of energy and say like, what was it about that project or that meeting or that team that gave you so much energy? And to be able to make it explicit so you actually, that becomes a design requirement for your next job. At the same time, we're going to talk about kind of things you suck at. I always talk about strength finders and I tell people to say, I want to know the bottom five. And they're like, why is because those are the five things you really suck at that you don't even know you suck at. And that's typically where the energy drains come from. And so it's basically having them look back and say, where are those moments where and ultimately now dissecting, why does it suck? Does it suck because you don't know? Does it suck because you've done it a thousand times? Does it suck because there's just, you know, it's not the right culture? What are the things that actually make it suck so you can come up with another set of design requirements? So ultimately I'm treating you as a product to understand what”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was coaching somebody the other day, and they basically came to me and said, I really hate my job. I just really want to quit. I'm like, okay, let me ask this. In the last 12 months, can you think of a time where you actually enjoy the moment or two? And they're like, yeah, I have a couple of those. And you start to write them down. And then you say, all right, well, tell me the things that really suck your energy. And they write them down. And then they think about another thing that was basically a moment. But it's about capturing these moments. And most people, like they think their job is supposed to do everything for them. And the reality is it's not. And so part of it is being able to help them balance that out and realize that even in a situation that you think is horrible, there's a lot of things you're learning in the middle of it. And it's important to realize and understand what they are. And so I would tell people just to take the time to reflect and say, think about two or three meetings. Think about two or three kind of projects, two or three things that you did where you literally, when you went into it, you actually had a”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Help remembering, and what I've learned is that I can interview somebody about so tell me about this last job. Tell me about one of the greatest moments you had at that job, right? And we have an interview guide in the middle of it. But ultimately it's about taking time to reflect on it. So what I've learned is that if I let people do it over a two-week period or so, they start to remember things. Like I say, go for a walk and just think about that job you had back then. And they'll go like, oh, I remember these people. I love working with these people. Well, what was it about that? And so it's this reflective nature of pulling out those things that give you energy. Because if you're in a place that gives you energy, like again, it doesn't feel like you're working. And so it's really important to find these moments of both energy drivers and energy drains to create kind of like the requirements of what you're trying to look for. Because in hindsight, the fact is those are the aspects of kind of what almost like your DNA is wired this way.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Bored with it. It actually sucks my energy because then I got to prove myself to everybody else as opposed to trying to learn something new. The other half is these energy drains, which is this aspect of the things that you go in and just suck the life out of you. And when I started to realize is the rate, like everybody's got to do some work that sucks their energy, right? Like I got to do expense reports. There's just certain things. I have to do P&L state, like all these things. But the reality is most people spend 95% of their time doing the work that sucks their energy so they get the 5% of the joy of the work they do. And what I realized is that if you can pull that ratio to 40% energy driver drain or 50-50, like you don't even know you're working anymore because you're just used to basically always doing this grind to get where you want to go. And so part of this is to realize that it's about reducing stress as well. But energy drivers and drains are these things that most people need some.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One of the things we do in the book, so it's nine steps, right, for you to basically go through. And the reality is, I would tell you, like, I'm not sure anybody's going to do all nine steps, but the fact is, is like, this is like, if you're going to do this, this is the best of the best. But if you do five of the steps, you're going to actually be way better off. So it's like, I don't want to intimidate people by nine steps, but the reality is like this is a really big one, which is to go back through your career and even back to college. I've taken people back to high school and basically talk about those moments where you got energy. Like you walked into a situation and you literally were like, oh my God, I got so excited about this. And why did I get excited? And it's one, capturing those moments and then dissecting those moments to say, what was it about that context that gave you energy and made you excited? Right. And so for me, it was like, oh, learning something new. Like I got really excited by learning new things. And so it's like, okay. And what I realized is that when I actually know something, I actually get.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They told the company they had more money because they knew they couldn't argue with having them come back because they got more money. And in their mind, they're like, if they give me that much money, I'll stay. And it's like, it's not really the reason. And so this is where you start to peel back that onion and you realize it's very, very fertile in terms of all these different, all this energy to cause people to make a job change.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so it's this notion of it's not any one push, but it's when the set of pushes come together and really kind of give you enough energy to go like, yeah, this is, I can't see where to go. I've been disrespected. And the fact is, is like, I'm not learning as much as I used to learn. Like, I got to go find a new place. And so it's these three or four things that have to happen that ultimately cause people to say, today's the day I got to leave, right? But the other part is they won't leave if they don't know where to go. And so a lot of people end up, they have enough energy to leave, but then they actually just go get another job in the same position they had before. And it's actually worse the same or worse than it was the other place. And so part of this is that you have to understand what does progress mean to you. So we have to talk about the poles, which are these things that happen to you that the outcomes that you're actually seeking by going to this job. And it's not more money. Like 53% of the people who basically said they got more money did not get more money.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. And so, what you start to realize is I have four kids and my daughter would come home one day and I'd say, how was work? And if she could name me four of the pushes, I knew she was already looking for another job”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I can complain about my job, but I'll never make the switch. So, how many people say they want a new job, but they actually don't know what to do?”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So if I go back to jobs to be done theory, its value is created by the context that you're in and the outcome that you want. And you start to realize that through your life, your context changes. And so at some point, like, for example, in my 20s, I love to learn a lot of things. And so it was this whole notion of learning lots of things. But once I mastered it, it was kind of like, all right, I know all these things. What can I do next? And so you start to realize that it's about that, where are you in this world? And why is it kind of creating that space for you to kind of go like, yeah, what else can I do? And what I would say is nobody randomly changes jobs. It's just not possible. And so the reality is like you can describe it that way. And most people would say lucky is random.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Business to get us down to five people. I found everybody else's jobs and then ultimately helped me basically get back to being able to do the work because that's the stuff I love to do. And so it's these four different quests that you realize and what's interesting is if I look through my career, I've been in all four of those quests sometime in my life. And part of it is to assess your situation so you understand what quest you're on so you can actually start to understand what it's going to take to make the move that you need to make.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because my home life is falling apart. Like there's things like that, and I can speak from experience on that where I've actually kind of sold out of a startup so I could actually go back and fix my home life, right? The fourth one, though, is a very interesting one, which is when you're in a position and you start to end up, you end up getting stretched into other places where you're not necessarily so good. But the fact is it's part of the experience, but you need to be realigned. It's like, help me realign back to the things that I'm really good at and what I like to do. And so ultimately, you kind of go into a position, you get a promotion, you end up moving to a place where you can see where it's there, but it's like it's, and all of a sudden you end up waking up one morning and going like, God, why am I doing all this stuff? Like, I really like to do that stuff. And so I had this one, for example. I grew my firm where I had almost 50 people and I started to realize there was like, I spent all my time on people issues. And I love to work on product. And so eventually I actually reshaped the whole.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is this bucket of get out? I just it's sucking my energy. I don't really know what to do. I can't think about what to do next. Help me get out of here so I can actually start to breathe and think, right? Another quest is help me take the next step, which is like I am where I am. The fact is I don't see a place where I can go next and the fact is I want to take the next step to build some skills or capabilities. Help me find that place where I can take my next step. Those are two kind of standard ones. But what you start to realize is there's two others. And the others are basically help me regain control. This is where you like what you're doing, but the fact is that at some point there's just too much of it and you're not doing it in a way that basically you don't like the way you're doing it. And so part of it is pulling you back to basically where you actually have control over the work and control over yourself and control to basically manage your time yourself because at some point we get sucked in and it happens a lot in startups, right? You just, it gets to be so much like, all right, I need to get control.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What we do is we do these interviews and we basically think of it as the ultimate of exit interviews. Like, why did you really leave this job? And so it's most of the time people won't tell their companies the truth. And so these are kind of unfiltered interviews around kind of like tell me what was really going on. And out of it, we end up getting what we call pushes and pulls. And these pushes and pulls is we end up with 13 different pushes, things like, you know, I'm bored, things like I'm pushed beyond my ability. I've been disrespected. There's these things that have to happen that cause them to do that. There's also like 14 pulls, which is I want to work with a team that's got my back. I want to, I want to feel like I'm doing my best work. I want to make sure that I can free up time so I can carry my weight at home. There's these other things that you pull for. But what happened is that when you start to look at all thousand interviews, they fall into one of four buckets. Two of them really kind of are the standard thing.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Start to realize there's a concept we talk about, and we'll probably get to about energy drivers and energy drains. So think of moments where you actually go into a situation and you get energy from it. Well, that's an experience. That's not an attribute. At the same time, the fact is like those moments where you go in and you get like the life sucked out of you. That's an experience. And so part of it is helping people understand the experiences they want so they can be successful, not the features.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's very simple, very similar to product. There's a difference between product features and product experiences. And what you start to realize is it's the experiences that keep you at your job. And good experiences and bad experiences are the things that actually pull it together, which is how attributes work through time and space. And so ultimately, you want people to realize it's not just about the money. It's about kind of like, is the money actually do they give you more money for a sign of respect? Because you start to realize when we did this, you'd unpack money. Money is a surrogate for respect. Or I've got bills to pay or I'm falling behind or the fact is like I deserve more. Yeah, I deserve more. And so it comes back to money has actually many, many different implications to it and getting people to know why they want more money. Because everybody wants more money. But the question is, why do you want more money? And that's really kind of that understanding there. And so to me, it's about actually understanding the experiences because you.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Number one thing we heard that when you do these interviews is the first thing they say well, tell me about your new job. They go like, oh my God, I got so lucky. They just attributed it all to luck. And ultimately, luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. And so you start to realize that when you start to interview people about the luck, it turns out that there was things that happened to them that made them ready to see the opportunity. And there's other things where they actually kind of their experiences actually shaped what they were looking for. And so they could see the opportunity. And so you started to realize like, this is a much bigger thing around that employees hire companies more than companies hire employees. That's really the big thing. And if that's the case, how do I prepare you as an employee to know how to hire your job every single day, wherever you're at? How do you make sure you're doing the things you want to do? And you're making progress in your life because the moment you stop making progress in your career is the moment you start looking for another job.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The thing that I've learned, though, is that Josh V. Dunn is a very powerful concept, but the reality is, I think it's actually more beneficial when you apply it to things. So I've applied it to sales. I've applied it to college. I've applied it to careers, right? And so part of it is figuring out kind of where to apply it next. And so I have other places that I'm working on. But the reality is, I think jobs is so powerful that it will just help recreate categories.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah. Well, I think there's only a small group. I actually think your audience really appreciates jobs be done. But I think the fact is that there's only, let's say, there's 100,000 people who need to know jobs to be done. There are a billion people every year who actually need to know how to find their next job. And so to me, it's just a much bigger market. And so that's why I think I'll have more impact on it.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“People. We've built a class around it. And it's one of those things that I've become like I went down the rabbit hole and I couldn't get out. And so it's very, very exciting to be asked, the book launched in November. And ultimately, I think that ultimately I will be remembered more for this book than Jobs to be done because I think there's a billion people a year who switch jobs. And ultimately, most of them end up with a job that's worse than the one they were at, but they don't know how to find it. And part of it is they don't know themselves well enough. And so I've just learned so much and I'm excited to be here to share kind of all the little insights that I've learned along the way.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that was kind of the premise of this I've been asking founders for like 15 years like what are the top three things that you really, you know, you need, if you could wave a magic wand and solve, what would it be? And talent was always on that list. And to be honest, I really didn't want to go into the space because it's just so, I don't know, to me, it was icky. But at the same time, the reality is like, I realize there's just a lot of struggling moments around it. And for me and what I do, I just love to help struggling moments. And so it started out almost 15 years ago working with Ethan Bernstein, who's a business school professor at Harvard in the organizational behavior side. And we basically, he saw me do an interview around jobs for a product and said, well, boy, I think we should think about this for, you know, because I'm giving advice to students about what they should do in their next career or their next job. And he's like, could we modify this? And so over the last 15 years, we've interviewed over a thousand people. I've coached almost a thousand people.”
2025-02-23 · Lenny's Podcast · How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source