YouSaid · the spoken record

Brad Stone

lines on the record: 148
first: 2017-02-20
most recent: 2017-02-20
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“So, yeah, and it's a good point because I think that Uber had this belief that its superior technology would win. But we look at the strength of Lyft, and there's a bunch of companies in New York City, and you just start to conclude that maybe good enough is good enough, that as long as the car is there within four minutes. There are going to be a lot of players. And if that's the case,”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Partners Right. But, you know, Uber left the Chinese market with a significant position, I think, 17%. Sure. And, you know, that's a tremendous outcome.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is working on some of that stuff In vertical integrity. Moving people around And to finish up on Uber, how do you look at the world thing? Because they've got a real competitor in DD. At the same time, they had a little truce with them this summer after quite a bit of ugly fighting, as I'm sure you were subjected to all their different dueling press releases.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's interesting. Jeff Holden from Amazon is working on some of that stuff. Jeff, it's Jeff. Yeah, so it's not completely frivolous. But, you know, as Ashley Vance and I reported over the summer, Larry Page as two companies.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're so expensive now. Who's going to buy them? I'd say this. I'd say it's amazing what you can do when it's an existential crisis. It's your future and your whole business. Know Google, it's not Google's business, it's not Apple's business, it's the car company's business, but we can both be sort of privately pessimistic about the chances that they'll become real technology companies. So in that respect, I think Uber has a tremendous advantage. They're well capitalized. They've got an amazing business that could fund the research. And everything is hinging on it. So in some ways, I think they're the company to beat. You know, at the same time, Google had a 10-year head start, but then there's not a great track record there at maintaining talent on what is now called the winner.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Working out of its own, yep. Uber's. French, yeah, it's sort of like Apple, Google again, kind of thing. How do you think about their move into self-driving? They've had some ups and downs again, but it's a big ticket item for a smaller company. There's still a small company, no matter how you slice it. And self-driving cars is a huge capital investment, no matter how much money they raise. And you have, like, again, the GMs, the Googles. Apple seems to be not clear where Apple is on this. You know, I always thought they would just get bought by one of them and become the reservation system for them. But they're so excited.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a very, they took David off the board. Yep, and Uber's working on its own. Yep. Uber's working on its own mapping service to try to get off the Google platform. And so, to use the horrible term, frenemies. Frenemies, yeah.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, absolutely. But, you know, one of the things I was thinking of, let's just be clear Google's a big investor. Many several parts of Google are big investors in Uber. So it's an interesting problematic situation. They took David off the board. Yep.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And he, it's all in the book, and you'll enjoy this because it was what they communicated to Uber beforehand. They basically said, we're going to launch a competitor. And then they pulled back on that, but then it was also Sergei on stage with either you or Walt. Basically, dismissing their partner, Uber, and after that is when Travis goes and decides that Uber needs to make the investment in driverless cars. I think that was smart because this is a reset for the industry. And if Uber can lead and driverless cars, it has an incredible future. And if it's Google or Ford or GM, then they've got problems.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's essentially what he said. And that's in the book. And actually, that was that D or Recode? Recode. Okay. So that code was very significant because Sergei also is at that code. Sure.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It does seem that way. I think the existential question for Uber is obviously self-driving cars, right? And I can't think of another business where we can say Uber strength now might mean nothing. It could literally be zero in a decade.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Handed them their hat there quite a few times. And so there was a, you know, and then the environment that we're in with all this overseas capital coming into the US and the sovereign wealth funds. And so the money was there, good terms. And Travis and his board availed themselves of it. It's amazing”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It right now $20 trillion. It's over $10 billion. I would say that we have no standard for it in the history of tech, but Amazon, it wasn't as much, but certainly, and they went public early, but they raised all sorts of debt and secondary stock offerings. And in a way, these guys are all disciples of Jeff Bezos. And the difference with Uber is that it had some big competition, DD and China and Lyft here that also had access to the capital markets.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, I don't think so. You're not her wife. No, people are dying. A lot of them. And we'll make the connection to Airbnb, but there have been people who have died in Airbnbs. And I don't let them off the hook in the book. I think, you know, one of the things that Travis has always said to his CTO, Twan, is anything you can predict, I expect you to handle. And a lot of the drawbacks, a lot of the difficulties that Uber has had have been completely predictable and they handled them poorly. So, you know, by their own standards, they made a lot of mistakes. And I think that they would admit that.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's just a fighter. I do think in this case we shouldn't quite let them off. No, I don't think so. The issue is it's not like you get the wrong search and they make some dumb things and you're not hurt by people are dying. A lot of these companies, you know, you think of Theranos. You think of a lot of them.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, the company has matured remarkably. And, you know, and yeah, we could kind of let them off the hook by saying, oh, they were young and moving quickly. But, you know, they had raised a lot of venture capital. And they're in a business that requires, it's a public service moving people around. And so they should have been more mature and they should have spoken with more maturity. And I think the fact that they were a kind of chute from the cuff company back then was a complete manifestation of Travis' personality. Just a fighter.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, and you know, it's just a complete absence of privacy protection inside a fast moving company. And there were other mistakes, right? The tweeting of some sexist images by an Uber team in France.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think I call that chapter and I recount the whole thing. It's like, yeah, Uber's rough ride. It's 2014, and it wasn't just that. It was the tracking of your reporter, right? Right, yes. Johanna Bouillon. Johanna, right. She was at Buzzfeed.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Dangers to women, and why would these privileged white men understand why women might worry about things like this? And not just that, but there were serious dangers, and this was a misogynistic company. I think that's really the essence, and they weren't thinking about the safety, and people should be clear about that. And so Emil seemed to, as usual, walk right into it and threaten her and to Ben Smith from BuzzFeed. Have they moved beyond that? Have they learned something from that? Because it really, that to me, was the Nadeer of...”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That one must be a good business. They did definitely. And some of the criticism seemed to get to them a little too much. They're famous Emil meltdown with the BuzzFeed reporter. Had they recovered from that? Have they learned from that? To explain it, they essentially threatened Cerlesey, another journalist. And she had been writing some very critical story and needed stories on.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think of the possibilities of dangers to consumers and was fueled by Travis' competitiveness because ridesharing was started by Lyft and Sidecar. And Travis thought it was illegal. And I talk about that in the book. And really, they lobbied for the PUC in California to shut Lyft inside car down. And it was only months later when that never happened that was good business.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think there are a couple of negatives. One, in places around the world where perhaps the taxi interests were a little stronger, places like Europe, that it backfired. They had executives get arrested. They had ridesharing services shut down. They came in guns blazing. And it was counterproductive. But then the other thing is that they were foot on the accelerator for so long and they should have done better at getting in front of the obvious. No, no, I mean like background checks and safety issues. You have a business that's dependent on drivers, a non-professional driver looking at phones in their cards now and people have gotten hurt. And I think Uber early on probably, and they would probably admit, could have done a better job on things like background checks and safety checks and technology that ensures safe driving.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that's an internal email, and I've got a bunch of them in the book, and they're just, you know, they're revealing of a guy who believed in the mission and fought and fought for it. And ultimately, like Uber would not have been successful with that.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because again, he was an advisor for a long time It wasn't him. Okay, so the fight with Christian Hayashi in the city of San Francisco had started. They had gotten the cease and desist, which had Ryan Graves' picture on it. Right, they were going to arrest him or something. Yeah, the fines are going up. And I'll start reading and you just tell me when I'm on for too long. Kalinek was now prepared to devote himself fully to another entrepreneurial adventure. He stopped Angel investing, curtailed his advising of other companies, and even broke up with a longtime girlfriend. He also showed early flashes of belligerence toward competitors, an auger of the conflicts to come. Quote, they will be getting into one of the most complex businesses I've ever seen for all the wrong reasons, and they will sorely underestimate the pummeling they will go through at the expense of my bare knuckles. He emailed a friend who was pointing at a tweet critical of Uber by a potential rival. Kallenick signed off with Bleeding Uber blood.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In looking at the other companies that tried this and failed, like the Cabulus and the Taxi Magic, they didn't have a Travis. And they tried to work from the inside. And they weren't too nice. Yeah, that was a key.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. He just loves it. He does that. It's so funny because his parents are lovely. And when I met his parents, I'm like, where's the asshole parents? You know what I mean? You can't grow one like that without”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was doing a horrible job. Right. And she had a meeting with Ryan Graves and Travis at the time an advisor. And they found her to be antagonistic. And she found them to be incredibly unpleasant. And suddenly it's a fight. And he just loves it.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, to me, the turning point for Travis and Uber was the cease and desist that Uber got from San Francisco in the fall of 2010. And suddenly it's a fight. He loves a fight. And, you know, and Uber, it was called Uber Cab at the time. And, you know, there was some ambiguity in the taxi and limo regulations in the state of California. There was the head of the MTA, Christian Hayashi, and I talk about her a little bit in the book and what her motivations are at the time. And she's like the archetypal taxi commissioner. There's one of her in every city and every country around the world. And, you know, and she was blazing mad because the taxi drivers were blazing mad and there was an injustice. At the same time, you know, she was protecting an industry, not the consumer.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's what I mean. He was frustrated and angry, I think, more than, and I think he saw all his friends sort of getting $100 million. He sort of felt like a loser in a lot of ways. And I feel like rage really did motivate him in a lot of ways.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which is going to be Right, which is interesting. I mean, he did get excited about it later, but again, he wasn't the CEO for a long, long time. What's interesting about it, though, is what motivates someone like him. And you're going to read a little bit from a section about him. But one of the things that I went and visited his parents in his home and his room, and it was interesting to see. But one of the things that I found him different from others was that usually there's these young sort of earnest founders, semi-inarticulate. And they're very much the same. And this was someone who had tried and failed several companies. I think the failure of his previous companies, one was a Napster-like company, before Napster. The second one was just an, you know.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What I loved was though, at the time, Travis was taking some time off, but he had an idea for an Airbnb-like company called Pad Pass, which is going to be a sort of network of high-end furnished apartments. And so, and he didn't think the Uber idea was all that big.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that was important because Garrett had had the idea of buying some cars and basically using the app. And Travis, that is when Travis started to work on him as an advisor that why buy these physical assets? Why don't we just enlist drivers and give the app to them? And yeah, and that was hugely important.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Classmate, who is Mexican, who then subcontracted out to some Mexican engineers. And, you know, and Travis was a buddy and was an advisor. So it was Tim Ferris, who you just had on the show, and Steve Jang. And pretty soon it almost took a year of development to just get something that worked. And partly the iPhone was on AT&T. It didn't work well. GPS wasn't ready. They tried it in New York City. It didn't work. And it wasn't until I think maybe two years after Garrett had had the original idea that they turned it into a business.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly. And it is funny how history does repeat itself. Every company has the silent founder. So I spent a lot of time with Garrett. And the remarkable thing is Uber was inspired by a scene in Casino Royale, the James Bond movie. So there's actually a Sony product placement of James Bond following his car around. And Garrett saw that. He had recently sold Stumble Upon. Rich and Bore. Yeah, rich and bored. And also dating and trying to get places in San Francisco. And he wasn't an enthusiastic driver. He had a lot of anxiety around parking and driving. And as you remember, taxi service in San Francisco was horrible. And pretty soon he started to call black car drivers and then thought of that scene in casino real. And that was the inspiration. But that was early. And it took a couple of years. And he actually subcontracted the work developing it to a friend, University of Calgary.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, to me, reporting that it was all new, right? I mean, like so many companies, they've sort of obfuscated the beginnings because, I mean, Uber is Travis' company, right? The emergence. It is now. Yeah, and the emergence of Uber X really the most important pivot in maybe in the history of Silicon Valley. It's a vast majority of Uber's revenues. And so that flexibility.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let's talk about each of them. As you know, I wrote a big profile of Travis and I've spent a lot of time with him. I know an interview him several times on stage. Talk about Uber first because Travis is sort of the exemplification of Uber, but it started in a very different way, much as many companies did. He wasn't the original CEO or really the creator of the idea. He was around and important to it, but it was really Garrett Camp who had created Stumble Pun. Talk a little bit about the beginnings of Uber for people who don't know. Yeah.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think they've had to be different. We've both interviewed the likes early on of Marx and Larry Page and Bill Gates, and these are not charismatic communicators, right? They're little Aspergery. But I would say Travis and Brian are cut from a different mold. They're storytellers. They're charismatic. They've had to be politicians when called upon and they've woven together political coalitions and activated their customer base. And so I think there is something different about these guys.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly who they killed Amazon killed. They've all killed In the analog world. And founders haven't. No, they just killed them from a digital point of view by replacing and demolishing and then replacing.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Externally disruptive and to a taxi fleet owner in New York City or a medallion owner. These are killer companies. They have in some ways really undermined their living. And so they're disruptive. I mean, it was maybe a little bit harder with a Google or a Facebook to item identify exactly who they killed. They killed. They've left some remarkable carnage. But who is killing? They've all killed. Yeah. But these guys, there's really, you know, there's been no illusion. They have come after rather large industries. And also, you know, we talk about moving the realm of digital into the physical world. Interlog world. Yeah. And that's what these companies have done. And they've had to deal with all sorts of regulatory obstacles that the past generation of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs haven't. And they”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Perhaps a little bit of both. These are particularly Uber, and the book is, it's not just about the two of them, but really the industries, home sharing and ridesharing and similar companies in each and some of the winners, but also many of the losers. And I spend a little bit of time exploring why the companies that were doing smartphone ride hailing before Uber, why they failed. But fundamentally, they have been.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, you have a day job. Right. So talk a little bit about you talked about the conception of it's the upstarts. They're not upstarts anymore, but they started as that. They're sort of scary power players at this point from what I can tell from the way they behave. And they're very different. Let's first talk about this killer companies. That's kind of an interesting way to put it. They're the new Silicon Valley. Everyone's always talking about the new Silicon Valley, but it's pretty much the old Silicon Valley with new companies, a lot of the same players and stuff like that. So talk about what you're talking about in killer companies. What is that conception? Or maybe it's just a marketing thing for your book.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And we can talk about Snapchat would be the third. Yeah, right, perhaps. And of course, changing the world is a cliche, but they have changed cities the way that we get around, the way we travel between cities, the options that we have. And so it kind of happened organically that I just began to focus on this. Yeah. At the same time as I started, you know, I work at Bloomberg. Yeah, you have a day job. I run the tech coverage at Bloomberg, but this has been my kind of passion project. Right.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, he does Those were going to be two intertwined I mean, like almost nothing They left in that way. They're the two companies if you had to pick two who've really gotten sort of done rather well, like in terms of there's been so many, but these are the two that have gotten gone across the country, not just here in Silicon Valley. Yeah, and we can talk about Snapchat would be the third.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But he does it with style. Yes, he does. But Uber and Airbnb were always going to be kind of, I had this idea of having three or four plot lines and those were going to be two. And a couple of things happened. Actually, in the original conception, I wanted to make Andreessen Horowitz one of the focuses too. And then, of course, Tad Friend did that remarkable story in The New Yorker. But really what happened was Airbnb and Uber, you know, when I started this in early 2014, they just took off. I mean, like almost nothing we've ever seen. And we've seen a lot of companies take off. And not only, you know, revenue and employees and venture capital, which was itself remarkable, but in the amount of conflict and controversy that they left in that way.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I did too, and I couldn't go being a masochist. I went right back in. And the first thought was to kind of do something like Libovich had done for DC, right? Which is incredibly hard because he's a remarkable writer. It wasn't a mean enough Brad that there's that possibility that I'm right now. We're just mean.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right before the fall, right? A little taste, right? Right, for the first boom. And then I was at the New York Times and yeah, and covering a couple of companies, including Amazon. And for a long time, it just struck me, you know, that no one had written the great Amazon book. Sure. And so, you know, that was now 2013. So a couple years ago. And after that one, I just thought, you know, it being a sort of punishing and at times thoroughly demoralizing effort to publish and promote a book, I thought, well, naturally, I just have to do this again. Yeah, yeah, exactly.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't want to Yeah, thanks, Kara. I think we probably first met when I came out here for Newsweek in the late 90s. Wow. Yeah, I was here. So I saw the up and then the down and then the remarkable rebound. Went to the New York Times. Where did you get?”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's called Fuck Silicon Valley, really. I've got a good one. You're going to be surprised. It's not what you expect. They wanted me to write a fictional novel of Silicon Valley and throw everybody under the bus.”
2017-02-20 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brad Stone, author, 'The Upstarts’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT