YouSaid · the spoken record

Bruce Schneier

lines on the record: 120
first: 2020-01-03
most recent: 2020-01-03
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Alright, so this is a series of dorky math and security jokes that I have nothing to do with using my name, and they are pretty funny.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I am on schneier.com. I do tweets. Actually, I mostly blog. I have a Twitter feed Schneier blog that mirrors my blog. And so Schneier.com is ready to go for my books, my writing, everything I've done.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Why don't I have to ruin your day? But one nuclear power plant. Can save a whole lot of fossil fuel burning. And there are a lot more nuclear power plants that have done that than nuclear bombs that have gone off. So by and large, like all technologies, I think we're doing really well. We're worried about the edge cases. We're worried about the fringe uses. We just don't want them to take over the whole.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I might sound like a downer, but I think technology is mostly good, is almost entirely good. I mean, we're spending our time talking around the fringes. And as a security researcher, it's real easy. To think that everything is bad. But I am just”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“From Facebook and the social media is what's going to happen in the United States. And I think we have to worry about these fake issues and agendas hijacking the real agenda. I think the mass media in the New York Times haven't owned up to their part in 2016. I mean, Facebook might have done some pretty bad things, but at least they said we did this. We're going to try to do better. I don't think the mainstream media has really acknowledged their role and how they were played by the Russians, how they're going to do better. So, I do worry about this at all levels.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then there's the security of the greater election process. And that's propaganda, disinformation, both foreign In two years from now, or next year, whenever it's going to, I forget when the election is, that you had, and this was nothing, as we can tell, nothing was far and influenced, but memes were going around, election was stolen, and suddenly all of this. All of this fake news. I hate the term, but that's what it is out there. That's being pushed by domestic actors with an agenda. And Facebook and Google do not have a good handle on this. Twitter doesn't. I think the things we're seeing in Brazil and India, where a lot of this move to some of the messaging apps, to WhatsApp, to direct messaging.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't think we're any better. I'll start by two things. I'll separate voting security, which is security of the machines and the systems. Actually, it's several things. It's the election rolls who can vote. It's the machines whether the vote is accurate. It's the tabulation systems. And it's the reporting systems. All of those have vulnerabilities and they have not been addressed.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We sort of know how to do this, even in an international world where there are pariah countries. And the more we can do that on the internet, the better. The internet is global. The internet affects everything. It is critical infrastructure for the planet. It has ramifications in human rights, in climate change, in everything that matters in this century”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think we need to really get serious about international agreements and norms and way to think about cyber conflict and the way the governments use the Internet and cyberspace. Very long-term, very nebulous, a lot of talk about cyber war, not a lot of talk about cyber peace But flipping that would be nice. And these are kind of decades long processes, slow and iterative. I work at the Harvard Kennedy School, and they are still working on nuclear deterrence, right? They haven't even licked that yet. But, you know, we're a lot better than we were decades ago. And whether it's nuclear or small arms or human trafficking or bribery.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think we need to get government serious about regulating technology, that the missing ingredient in the way the market is supposed to work is the well-regulated part. And that is harming all of us, including the companies. And the whole point of regulation is to establish a playing field in which the market can operate. And when you don't have that, the market doesn't operate efficiently and doesn't operate well. And I think the companies are hurting because of that. And they might have more near-term profits, but it's not going to last. So I think, and these are all very, very general things.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Breaking them up. And I think we have to do that. And I think I've do that for, I mean, I think it's better for society in almost every possible way. I don't even think it's bad for the tech companies. I don't think Mark Zuckerberg. If he has, you know, right? If he has majority interest in 17 companies instead of one, I don't think he's worse off. I think he's going to be better off. And I'm not sure why he's not embracing this.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And we want those. We would like competition. I think it would keep Facebook honest. I think we'd all benefit. But as long as Facebook is allowed to be as big as it is and buy whatever it wants, you just never have. So what would we do?”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think innovation is still coming around the edges. Facebook and Google are still buying companies left and right that might Out innovate them. I mean, they're still accreting. Apple as well. So you are still seeing a lot of innovation. I think the innovation can be helped by keeping things open, by getting rid of the monopoly behavior. Eating something as simple as net neutrality. Stop a monopoly in one area from infing on another area. There's an enormous amount for innovation. I don't think we see a lot of innovation in social media right now. Because there's no point. You'll never get a competitive Facebook funded.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And in the next, given that situation, because all these companies are American companies, is this where the next internet age is if you had to look around where innovation is coming from? Because to me, that's what will dominate. Like people talk about Facebook or whatever, or any of these companies. And to me, you see it over and over again, the same thing as the replacement of these. Where do you imagine innovation is coming from right now? push it as a country in this country at least.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With their platforms and society. We have to be big this big to fight these threats makes no sense. I think a diversity. Is better at fighting these threats?”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They pay much less for Stephen thinks a simple internet access because they had actual competition and we don't. And I think you lose a lot when you have a monopoly. And these tech monopolies are hurting us in many ways. And even something as simple as forcing Facebook to open up their API for compatible apps would go an enormous way towards fixing all the problems Facebook is having.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think it's all of those things. I mean, a lot of it is the generic problems of monopoly that we've known for decades and just forgot since the 80s. That monopoly stifles innovation. That monopoly leads to complacency. That monopoly just leads to substandard outcomes where we're paying more and getting less. And we're now in a world where really the vanguard of capitalism is, and competition is in Europe and not in the United States.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, lastly, the power of these companies. I want to finish up talking about that. One of the arguments I hear a lot in is we need to be this big, as I said, in order to combat all these problems that you just talked about. What is the dangers of this size? To me, it's the one ownership of the information who gets to make decisions about that. Two, it's that there's no way once they get that big and they get into monopolies, you can fight them. Even the government can fight them. And three, it's innovation dies when you have that.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, in a lot of ways, our phones and computers are extensions of us. My email is my offline brain. There are things that I remember because I know it's there and I go get at it I mean, a lot of us really can't function. Without the calendars And the internet and email and messaging. And it'll be those same type of things more integrated. I don't follow body augmentation or any that sort of thing. Again, I worry about the software, about who controls it, whether it can be taken over. I don't want to have robotic legs and suddenly some hacker from sub-Saharan Africa is walking me around. And now there's ransomware against my legs. And this is not unreasonable.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I don't follow the sort of body augmentation. I think we sort of see the harbingers of that when we think about our devices.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I worry about who owns the data surveillance capitalism. Maybe these robots with Click Enormous amount of data about us and who's going to own that data will happen to that data. I worry about who's going to control those robots. You talked a little about the right to repair. If that robot is owned by By Google, by John Deere, by a company that you might have to have the ability to”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's the way things work. I want one of those. No, please send me a rope of the troops, people. All right. So robotics, but in terms of the fail points is what you're talking about, that there's multiple points of failure here. Right.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. We've seen people programbas. I mean, this is still academic exercise to follow people around and try to trip them.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“From a security perspective, I think these are also really interesting. And it's definitely automation's the right word. It's automation, autonomy, and physical agency. Those are the things that I think about. Robotics really epitomizes all of them. And it's going to be things in our world doing stuff. And things that have all the computer flaws that we're used to. All of the vulnerabilities we're used to that are going to be. Doing things and things that are increasingly critical, increasingly life critical. And these are aspects I worry about. And again, this goes back to the title of my book, click here to kill everybody. Right, they are.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I don't buy it. I think we're at the point where the companies are too big. And a lot of our problems, the fact that these are all monopolies.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is public science. Right. Okay. So the idea that this is an argument I get from Silicon Valley a lot, we have to be doing this because the Chinese will beat us with our giant science. Yeah, I think they just”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Tell me why it's not about the amount of data, it's about the type of data and how it's used. And the open science of how to use data is really where the work is, and not the I have a big data set of Chinese citizens going to school that I can use that's not going to separate the AIs from each other.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think that's really a way to think about the future of AI. It'll do things we don't imagine in ways that'll be completely strange, some things that we think are impossible will be done, some things that we think are easy. Can I be very, very hard and not be done? It's very hard to predict. In security, we'll have AIs attacking, defending. We don't know who will have the advantage. And again, this is going to be a thing about power. I don't see a data race. You'll see a US-China story because China spies on its people more. They have more data to train their AIs. I think that's largely nonsense.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And now Go can be solved by machine learning. And if you play Go, anyone listening to Plays Go, I recommend... Going to look at some of the go games played by Alpha Go. And the way it learned is it learned the rules ago, then got every human game go of game ever recorded, learned from those, then it played itself for a gazillion times and got really, really good. And it plays Go phenomenally well. Then Google did another experiment. They Didn't feed the new program any human go games. And said, figured out yourself. And that program plays go like an alien. It's really fascinating and makes moves that a human would never make.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“AI is going to be interesting to watch, right? AI is very nonlinear. AI, easy problems turn out to be hard, hard problems out to be easy. When I was a student, we learned that Go, the game, would never be solved by quantum computer because it was computationally infeasible, blew up too fast. And that was true until Google says, oh yeah, we did that last month because we were bored.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“See, I don't think so because you don't need the best answer. You just need a good answer. And if you can get an answer that's 1% better for 10 times the money, no one's gonna do it. So it really is times you need the perfect answer. And breaking encryption is one of them. That's why you had the NSA even as early as 2014, you saw it in the Snowden documents, had a budget for quantum computing. Because they saw the cryptographic benefits of it. But I don't see a quantum arms race. I don't see a quantum apocalypse. We will. Figure out cryptography before the quantum computers. And I don't think that's controversial.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The problems to solve are optimization problems and search problems. So if you want to figure out the traveling salesman problem. So you have 50 cities in your territory. You need to visit them all. What is the shortest driving path that will get you to all of them? That's actually a really hard problem.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A lot of companies are working on this. There are quantum scientists who agree with me, who disagree with me. There's no, we don't know”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That if it's fast and I travel hard, We're not going to do it That'll forever be science fiction. And these are problems with coherence. Basically, the problem is how to get the data out of a quantum computer to read it. That the answer will decay so quickly and that it's quantum, of course, like measuring it destroys it, that sort of problem.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so a couple of things. One is that we are already working on quantum resistant cryptography. NIST has a program in it. We have algorithms. We will have algorithms that will resist quantum computers before we have working quantum computers that can actually solve these problems at any real scale. The challenges to a quantum computer can solve Serious problems are significant. And it's hard to surmount those. We truly don't know if by hard we mean go to the moon hard or faster than light travel hard. It could be either So we could have a quantum computer that can solve real problems in a decade or more, or we could have it never. And we don't know. My guess is a decade or more. My guess is these problems are solved.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That is not constrained by some of the linear constraints of our normal computers. Very experimental. And it has the potential to solve problems that can't be solved by conventional computers any human length of time. And two of the big problems are problems that we use in cryptography to keep things secure. So, you hear people talk about the cartography apocalypse. I think it's overblown”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so this is going to be maybe a little more mathy than you want, but I'll try to mathy. All right. I'll try to stay on top. It's basically a new way of doing computing”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Face ration and other things as well. And again, there's still a lot of errors here, but the basic idea is that we can look for certain kinds of behavior. It's someone's standing when they should be moving, someone moving when they should be standing, someone who looks suspicious, is wearing the wrong clothing for the weather. I mean, we can make up all these behavioral characteristics. And yes, I mean, your question is perfectly reasonable. What are the error rates? Who does it disproportionately fall upon? And how well do these systems work? Sometimes you don't care. You're a country like China, you get a high error rate. You kind of don't care. You're half your aim is to cause terror in the population. So a few errors actually make your system work better for that intended purpose.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let's talk about that behavioral tracking. That's another one the ability to track you based on your behavior, which will be girded by facial recognition because it'll see you as you move through the world.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Government should be regulating this. But unfortunately, the government also is using this. And we see this even with something, just another technology of just... Facebook advertising. I mean, I'd love that the government regulates with Facebook advertising, but every politician who uses it says, whoa, neat, that was fantastic. I want that forever.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, right, the cost of the error depends a lot. On who you are, how much power you have, whether you're marginalized in society, and disproportionately the mistakes fall on the unempowered.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right. And that's the worry. And now this depends. Errors depend on the use. If I misrecognized as I'm walking by a billboard, they show me an ad for a Chevy I don't want to buy. If I misrecognized crossing the street. That's crossing the street. Think of me in Afghanistan. Someone stops a drone on my house.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Texting is dangerous because texting leaves an audit trail. And a lot of journalists will not text with sources for the same reason. And a lot of dissidents will not. A lot will because we as humans need to communicate”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No longer happen over voice, no longer happen in person. Where the words are said and dissipate. And I don't know about you, but I'm willing to bet that my relationship will not be improved by being able to go back and read the transcript of five-year-old arguments to know that I was right.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The data from the cameras is owned by whatever private companies are running those cameras, whatever government's running those cameras, very much the power dynamic. Who has access to that data? And we're moving to a world where in general is disappearing. Already many of my intimate conversations happen over text.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No one ever lies to their search engine. Knows more about us than our intimates. And facial recognition is another one of these technologies. And there is gate recognition. There's fingerprint recognition at a distance, eye scanning. I mean, so many technologies of identification. And really step back and think, what does it mean for someone to be identified throughout their day, throughout their life as they move through society? First question to ask is who owns that data? The data from your phone is owned by a phone company, by whatever apps you've given permission to access your GPS.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But these are technologies that allow a level of surveillance that just isn't possible because they replace human eyes. We could always recognize people in public. That's not nothing new. But to have a million cameras in the city of London, all of whom can recognize everyone in public all the time. Allows the people who control those cameras to map where people are in a way they haven't done before. Sure. I think it's real important we separate the technologies from the uses. We spend a lot of time talking about these technologies as different thing. I don't want to say this. Facial recognition allows identify people. So do many other things. Every one of us carries the most exquisite surveillance device ever invented. In our pockets every day. It's our phone”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If you are a police department, you might decide to arrest them or not. It really depends on where it's being deployed. These are technologies of ubiquitous surveillance. Now, that might be a good thing in some circumstances, right?”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's two questions who is this? Because once you know who it is, then you go back to your debate database and you make whatever decision you might want to make. If you are a department store, you might decide to give them better customer service or worse customer service. Right.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All these technologies were pretty good getting better every year. I mean, we all know how tech works. That every year it gets better. And there are two kinds of facial recognition. There is the one you use if you have a new iPhone. And that is answering the question, is this the person I think it is? Is this Kara Swisher's phone? The other type of S recognition is who is this? And that's the kind you might see deployed by the police in the United States, in Hong Kong, in stadiums.”
2020-01-03 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Bruce Schneier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT