YouSaid · the spoken record

Carole Cadwalladr

lines on the record: 120
first: 2019-07-08
most recent: 2019-07-08
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“You are not. And you are a great journalist, and anybody who says different will have to go through me. They don't want to go through me. No, that's true. You know, me and Megan Rapino have your back.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's still so much with the Cambridge Analytica story, which hasn't been reported out. And in Britain, it just mutates and changes form so that Nigel Farage's new party, the Brexit party, it's now using PayPal to try and circumvent the electoral finance laws. And, you know, two weeks ago, just over a week, no, it's one week ago. I did a story about Boris Johnson's links to Steve Bannon. I mean, this stuff isn't stopping. It's absolutely going on right now in real time. And it is incredibly underreported here in Britain. So I haven't felt able to sort of just step back and go, okay, I've done my bit, you know, take it on team.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I know We need people to step up and we need people to take on the fight. And I get why people don't want to do that. But actually this is where, you know, as I say, like people in Silicon Valley really need to look inside.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that is. I mean, I think there have been certain, I saw knock down the house, that Netflix documentary, and that was the first thing which has sort of cheered me up for ages actually was tough. Yeah, and it's that you can, you know, we can overcome some of this stuff, but it really does take.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that again, I mean, the thing is, we haven't even talked the connection, the transatlantic connections here are so strong and so multitudinous. And the money which flows between the states and between Britain and the way that we're a kind of bridgehead between the far right in America and the far right in Europe and in Russia, which supports the far right in Europe, is a sort of really key aspect of this. We can just see the way that Brexit weakening our ties to Europe, making us more prey to Trump's America, your America.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, many of whom are, but here are particularly this sort of pernicious right wing media, which I have to deal with is really tough. But none of the none of them.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Results and the alarm I feel about what is happening day to day in Britain and in America, in these other countries. I mean, we should all be really, really chilled at what is happening in the world. And I care about that. I just kind of like, I can't, I feel that I'm in a position to try and do something about it. So I feel this compulsion to try and do something. But, you know, it is difficult and it has a personal toll. And, you know, having all of these different... People and individuals and companies coming after me on this very personal, vicious level is, you know, I get it.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I have so many attacks and it's been I've had a really really tough couple of weeks but I get this amazing support on social media And that has been, you know, using the resource of social media to sort of communicate this story has been really vital. So, you know, I can see the utility of this stuff, but it just scares me. I mean, I think I go back to that, you know, that sort of the alarm I felt when I found those Nazis.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly, and it's a sort of litigation you can use in Britain. And, you know, multiple ones, but this in particular that they're just going after me as an individual is just particular.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If we believe in the freedom of the press and we believe that it's important to have a free and functioning press, you know, we should all be horrified at this. And it's just another example. It's exactly what Trump is doing in calling the press the enemy of the people, etc.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's intimidation. But, you know, it's still something I have to take seriously. I have to have a lawyer. I mean, it's just like, it's insane. And it's just bullying. And as I say, it's in coordination with all these other elements who go after me in this, with these nasty attack stories. Even Boris Johnson, he was finally asked about this relationship with Steve Bannon. And on this radio show, he said, oh, it's complete Codswallop. It's complete Codswallop. And that's what they call me. You know, this is the nickname that I get from these people.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's something just, I just want to go into very briefly. After the referendum, Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage continued travelling between London and then they were on the Trump campaign and they were still going into the Russian embassy here. So these connections between these Brexiteers, between the Trump campaign and between the Kremlin, you know, there in black and white. For two years after they would be making those visits to the Russian embassy, Aaron Banks lied about this. He said he'd had one lunch with the Russian ambassador. So we published this stuff and I call him out. And parliaments also in an official report also published all of this stuff. So it's just intimidation.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I subsequently, after I broke the big Cambridge Analytica story last spring, in the summer, I did another big story about, which is I got hold of a stash of emails and it was about how Aaron Banks had been making these covert trips to the Russian embassy in London in the lead up to the referendum. And he was offered gold and diamond deals by the Russian ambassador. And this is the Russian ambassador who's named in Robert Muller's indictments as being a conduit between essentially communication channel between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When was the TED talk? The other one was this event called the Convention. And it's this really chilling way in Britain and his allegations. So politically motivated millionaires can try and silence journalists through litigation. We had it with Cambridge Analytica, we had it with Facebook and now I've got Aaron Banks. And Aaron Banks is not going after the Guardian. He's going after Ted. He's going after because he can't because it's an American organization. He's going after me as an individual. And yeah, so he's suing me because I said in my TED talk, I said, I'm not even, here we go. Let's just say it again, Aaron. You can add this one to the bill. I said, so Aaron Banks used, this was, it was his connection to Cambridge Analytica that sort of set me off on this whole story.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so this was just one day. Within 24 hours of me reporting about Steve Bannon's connections to the man who might be our future Prime Minister looks like he will be our future Prime Minister Boris Johnson, I have a torrent of articles about me unleashed on these right-wing blogs and I get a legal letter from Aaron Banks who is he is Nigel Farage's funder. He's one of the guys who call himself the bad boys of Brexit and he's it's incredible he's suing me for defamation Threatened to sue me for my TED talk. So he's citing two talks I gave in public”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's where legislators are the ones who really have to step up, I think. And again, that's where I think it comes us to us as people, as citizens, to be paying attention to this.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So employ more people. The thing is, we just don't trust them to do the right thing. And that's the sort of imperative of.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, some of it is just money You know, you know what? The thing I find is that this like, oh, these big problems are so big, and we're training our AI and la, la. So one of the most compelling arguments I find with Facebook is that one in seven people who work in Facebook moderation work on German content, and that's because in Germany there are laws against hate speech, and so they've got to enforce it. Now, A colleague worked out that if you were to employ German levels of content moderation globally, it would, I mean, it's a tiny, it's something like half a percent of Facebook turnover or something. I mean, just employ more people and pay them properly.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Also terrifying. I mean, I saw Jack Dorsey at an event a few weeks ago, and you know, it's like I asked him, how do you feel about the fact that the president of the United States looks like he might start a nuclear war on your platform? How does that, how do you feel about that? And the fact that he breaks your terms and conditions every single day and you don't do anything about it.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't think there'll be another, though, in that case. What do you imagine will happen now? Which one of these companies do you think needs most legislation? And then we'll finish up. In the United States. Because you're right, it has to be done in the United States. It can't be done.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, he wrote an essay too that was pretty appalling. Sorry, Nick. Nick, I open-minded. Let's have lunch. I was charmed by a British accent. In any case, what next? I hope Eve said that. Listen, you know what?”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Information, and that's the thing that's refusing to tell Parliament. And Nick Clegg was passionately anti-Brexit. So the idea somehow that the company he's now shilling for and covering for is somehow implicated. He's just gone on this sort of, you know, gone on the defensive. And when I started asking him about where the data is, and he said to me very crossly, he's like, the information commissioner has the data. And I said, no, this isn't a question about Cambridge Analytica. I'm not accusing Cambridge Analytica of hijacking Brexit. There's no suggestion that it was Cambridge Analytica. So you just failing to, but he's using that. He's deliberately answering a question which hasn't been asked by saying, well, there's some people who say there are some conspiracy theorists who say that Cambridge Analytica called us Brexit. Let me tell you, this is absolutely...”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And what we know is that during the referendum, Facebook was the site of multiple illegal acts that took place. So these campaigns used Facebook to break our electoral laws. So we control money in our elections. That's one of the basics of our electoral laws. But they discovered you can just spend any amount of money on Facebook and nobody will know. So we've got these investigations going on at the moment, but our Electoral Commission has concluded that two campaigns broke the law and broke the law by a massive amount. This is massive electoral fraud. And in terms of what the big picture is of what exactly happened during the referendum, of how much money was overspent, of who was targeted and with what ads, etc. Is this that Facebook has all of that?”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My colleague got a very plaintive text from him, but he took it very personally because in his hit back, I find this, he went on the BBC last week to spread actual misinformation. He turned up at this panel event two weeks ago and I sat in the audience and asked him a question.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Please go on The cynicism of it, the cynicism of it. You know, he's somebody, and the reason he took it so personally, he took my TED talk so personally, is because”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you know, he was a liberal Democrat. He sort of, you know, gave speeches against monopolies. And the backstory to Nick Clegg is that he was in this, you know, centrist party, the Liberal Democrats, and he helped David Cameron. He didn't get enough majority to form a government and Nick Clegg's party propped him up. And he would say, well, he moderated some of their harsher policies. And others would say, well, actually, he enabled them to carry out this austerity program. And he also reneged upon all of his campaign. And it devastated the Lib Dems. They hugely lost their membership base. Anyway, he loses, then loses his seat in Parliament. And he trots off to Silicon Valley to take this job. And it's just sorry.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's so funny. I asked him for an interview last week because I found out the new statesman, which is a niche left-wing magazine here. He'd done an interview with this guy before friendly interviewer. He's giving them an interview.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, with one of the ones which was he came last week. So one of the things which is we find most painful here in Britain is so ex-deputy prime minister Nick Clay.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You don't have free speech, and you're not a public square and you're a private company. And to try to tell citizens, these people are billionaires off of your data. They're not helping you. They're helping themselves and hurting you. And so that's the message I think that's harder to get through.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They have hired all kinds of lobbyists. The stuff I'm seeing now is really interesting. I'm spending a lot of time in Washington going, no, every time someone, I hear all their arguments, I'm like, that's not true. I just sit there and tell legislators it's not true. That's not true. And they need to look at this and they need to do their job, which is hard because as a journalist, you're like, why am I advocating? But it's not advocating. It's like, don't have people lie to you about what they're doing. And what's interesting is at the heart of it, I think a lot of these things can be wonderful, like can be great. Like a lot of it, you know, I love Twitter. I know, you know, I'd love full communication. And what's fascinating is the pushback on we can say anything we want. Like we should be, it's the, they tie themselves to First Amendment when this has nothing to do with the First Amendment. It doesn't, you know what I mean? That it's free speech. It's not free speech.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, it's just so interesting, isn't it, that way that it's crossed the aisle now. And I think a year and a half ago, the biggest threat Facebook saw coming was from Europe. I don't know if that's true anymore. I think the United States”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What's interesting is that Trump and others in the administration are going after Face have antipathy towards technology, which is, I was like, they're your best friends, my friend, between Twitter and Facebook. You should like throw them a party in the White House, complete with McDonald's hamburgers. It'll be great. Like, you know, and by the way, they like that food, so good luck. So what do you make of that?”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And they refuse to take responsibility for it. Just, you know, I say this again is that. Turn off the uploads if you cannot control what content is being uploaded. And I think forcing the platforms to take responsibility as publishers. Which Britain is making some moves towards now is a vital sort of first step. Don't let them get away with it. I mean, this is incitement to violence. I mean, it's incitement. And we have laws against that. And so, you know, we need to enforce the laws we have and we need new laws. So it is on us as citizens as well. I mean, this is one of the things I think is on us as citizens to put pressure on our lawmakers and to get laws changed. And this is on us.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think there's an awful lot that governments can do. One of the things which I think became very clear during the Christchurch massacre was that that video was going viral across the world.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Rest of the world. And what do you imagine should happen? If you could, Facebook has proposed this sort of, it is true, a Supreme Court look at their stuff, which I think is just ridiculous. We want you on our, they didn't ask me, but I'd be like, no, thank you. It's not my company, and I didn't, you know, I didn't cause this mess, and I'm not going to clean it up for you. But what do you imagine would work?”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We need the people who are being harmed by this technology represented. And I find incredibly troubling that one of the most troubling things I find is that, so one of the reasons that we were very grateful to partner with the New York Times, for example, as well on this story, was that it's only the United States that can legislate against these companies in that sense. And the only the US press that they pay any attention to. And we did this big workshop with these journalists from Bangladesh and India and Sri Lanka and Pakistan who were telling me about the ways that the technology is being used in their countries. They've got no chance. You know, it's a sort of, you know, in Britain where we speak the same language and we have this shared culture and much of our news media is. We had no chance. That I feel there is this.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But I think it's this, I mean, I think one of the things has been that it's just been technology kind of industry has existed within this bubble. Technologists creating technology. And it's this, we need all sorts of other types of people. We need philosophers and ethicists.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Great reporting. I think shabe. Shame. Shaming. That's my job for years now. It's not working. What do you imagine it to be besides shame, the solutions? How do you educate a whole new group of technology people that this is not right? They have to think really hard.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Successful executive lovely guy. And it was really interesting, the mentality of, hey, we just make this stuff. We can't be, what solutions do you find? Your speech was so impassionate and so you've got to have a conscience. You've got to have ethics. And it's something I've written about. They need ethics. They need to take humanities courses. They need to do this. What do you think prevents it? And what do you think some of the, besides just constantly reminding them of that, what do you imagine the solution to be?”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You see, I just did a really interesting interview with the head of AWS about facial recognition. And it was, I don't know if you saw what he said, we're not responsible for how people use our technology. And I was like, yes, you are. And then, no, you are. It was an interesting back and forth. Again, the terrific...”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And it is deeply, deeply troubling. And the way that it is, the way, I mean, it is, I think techno-fascism is one of the ways that I kind of think about, started thinking about it, really, which is that this technology favours populist authoritarians. And that is what we're seeing all across the world. And every day we see more of it. And we see the way that they're communicating with each other and they are growing in strength and numbers. And they are being facilitated by these technology companies. And you employees are part of that.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, maybe this is one thing to say on your podcast, it's listen to people, but it's listened by people in Silicon Valley. And it's like, are you really okay with this stuff? I mean, are you really okay with your company's leadership? Are you really sure that they are doing everything that they can? Because, you know, you should be troubled and you are part of it. You are part of this. You can't pretend that you don't know anymore. I mean, before we didn't know. And I don't think employees knew the full story, but it's becoming clearer and clearer.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm like, maybe. I know, but you know what? This is where the power of kind of conscience and of people, you know, having a moral conscience is so important. And that's the thing I think I was trying to appeal to because this, you know, we saw with Christopher Wiley, you have one person who decides to speak out and it has this incredible power. There are people all across Silicon Valley who know stuff who are not speaking about it. And like I say, the thing of, you know, Cambridge Analytica, there are these employees who worked on the Trump election, young Europeans who've not spoken out. I mean, I just...”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Some of the Russian stuff you'll never be able to quantify. And if you can't quantify it, people will say, well, it didn't switch the election, it was because Hillary Clinton was a bitch. Like, that's why. I'm like, maybe, but it's also this. You can't quantify.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, maybe Cambridge Journalist. Yeah, I mean, so they're an extraordinary company. There's still so much about Cambridge Analytica, which, you know, they worked in, I think, 154 elections around the world. We've only scratching the surface. We've actually got no idea what Cambridge Analytica did. If”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so I've been to, you know, because I've been and I've been a reporter at TED. So I knew kind of what a big deal it was. And I was so terrified of public speaking and I kind of forced myself doing this story to, you know, start doing panels. But I'd still a TED talk was sort of at another level of sort of terrifyingness. But I knew that it was this opportunity to talk directly to the people who are in these companies making these decisions and who are responsible. And so I really did want to, I think that interview you did with Zuckerberg, I think that did inspire me in some ways. But it was, you know, I wanted to break through to them as people and as people who are responsible for creating this world that we have now found ourselves in. And it's not that I don't think, you know, we know they... Didn't set out. To do so. Nobody did.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, what happens is he doesn't do it as much, but a lot of them get into this victim mentality. Like, hey, and become super aggressive, like the people on the board of Facebook have gotten super aggressive. Like, you know, who have no power, by the way. So I don't really care what they think in lots of ways. But it's a really interesting reaction. It's victimization. If you don't fail, you don't do things. Suddenly all of a sudden Silicon Valley has been shooting off tweets around. You have to fail, and only those who criticize don't create. I'm like, I create and I criticize. Nice to meet you. It's really an interesting thing. So talk about how the format of this TED talk that you did that really got a lot of traction speaking of traction. And I think it really did.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And, you know, the United Nations has said that you have helped ferment, you know, the mass killing Of people And to like not have a reckoning with yourself and to not want to make.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's this because initially I was kind of like, is it just the lawyer's answer? And you're like, and then you're like, actually, this is dissociation. And that's the thing which I find the most chilling, actually, of it, which is that, do you know, have these people who can't respond on a human level? I mean, I just can't. And how do you compute that? You know, you're the head of this company. Right.”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You kept on asking it Right. Right. I don't think he was by any means being disingenuous. I think he couldn't answer. Like it was really interesting. I've been around people who are disingenuous. I understand that, like, liars. It's a very different level of, he has no ability to take responsibility, even though I think he's not the kind of, again, people I've covered have been really... Sort of pressing someone who just can't even compute. I don't know how it's been put”
2019-07-08 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT