YouSaid · the spoken record

Chris Hughes

lines on the record: 91
first: 2019-05-10
most recent: 2019-05-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“There is that pattern, you know, a mistake, an apology, and trying to correct the course or trying to write the ship and then having some other problem, some other scandal, some other event to happen. I worry a lot right now about what will come with this push towards cryptocurrency that they seem to be building. Towards, according to the reporting, they raised a billion dollars for it. This introduction of a Facebook coin, a stable coin introduced likely first in India on WhatsApp. You know, if Facebook controls a meaningful part of the global money supply, that's Big set of responsibilities that currently we trust government, the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, others to see. It's, I mean, I'm getting perhaps a little bit ahead of myself, but the point is that”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, he studied the classics in high school at Phillips, Exeter, and at Ardsley, I think before that, I'm not exactly sure on that. But I think he was tempted to be a classics major, honestly, in college. You know, he only had three semesters. So you'd barely chosen what you're going to study by that point. But yeah, I think that he had a fascination with legacy, with power, with impact. Sure, that still exists. I'm sure it changes. I think anybody would be hesitant to see the things they did when they were 18 or 19 in college and then extrapolate 20 years later. But that was my experience.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a different I think there was a tenacity Yeah, there was a drive to greatness. Yeah, I mean, Mark studied the classics. There was lots of talk of Roman emperors and Augusta, you know, these kinds of things. There was a drive to greatness.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is an unusual choice of a word. That was their motto for a long time. Yeah Yeah, Dominate is be the best is to clean the playing field, to wipe up your competitors.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Dominate is different than drive to growth. It's a very different, we're just the way moving west. Yeah, move fast and break things. The word break is an unusual choice of a word. That was their motto for a long time. Yeah. It wasn't disrupt things. It wasn't change things.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it was interesting because when they rolled that out, you know, they show it to reporters, you know, the drill. And I brought up these things. This was years ago. I was like, what about if someone kills someone? What if someone bullies someone? What if someone does pornography? What if someone does this? Wear the tools. And they called me a bummer. I'll never forget it. I was like, a bummer. Whoa. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'm a bummer. That's right. I'm the bummer for my mom. I'm here to tell you that bad things will happen here if you let people do whatever they want. Where was that ethos from? Because you talked about the idea that he used the word dominate a lot. And I have heard them all say it there.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is a perfect example. You know, they rolled it out. Anybody can live cast at any time. That seems like it's furthering the march. Shibakamama is everywhere. Exactly. And there is a lot of live streaming that happens that is... Worthwhile, I guess, entertaining, or helps people be somewhat connected. But then you also see things like what happened a few weeks ago in New Zealand.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, that's part of the role of a good business person is to, you know, increase revenues, increase profits, become more successful. It's why it's really important to me if we're going to lay blame. It's not that Mark, I think, did something unethical by buying WhatsApp or by buying Instagram. The folks who made the mistake are the FTC. They should not have approved either of those acquisitions, and they have the power now to go back and correct those. So this drive to growth is something that I don't think we should be surprised about in, or I'm not surprised about in Mark's case, but I do think it has become problematic. So where I do think that I hold some responsibility even back in the early days, and it is appropriate to hold them accountable, is”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the Washington And the issue is that this is growing. It still continues to grow and do well. That's one part. And we're going to talk about the solutions in a second to this. But one of the things that I thought was really interesting you wrote, I'm angry that his focus on growth led him to sacrifice security and civility for clicks. I'm disappointed in myself and early Facebook team for not thinking about how news feed algorithm could change our culture, influence elections, and empower nationalist leaders. And I'm worried that Mark has surrounded himself with a team that reinforces his beliefs instead of challenging them. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, I agree with you. But in terms of the idea of growth growth growth, it's sort of been at the center of that company for a long time.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think, yeah, I think Facebook has become too big. I don't think that there are ways that he can deal with it better than others. I think that for the past month, six weeks or so, Facebook has been and he has been more clear that they Facebook and he have been more clear that they welcome some kind of regulation.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One thing he doesn't have power Right. And telling him he's heard it from a lot of people, right? Friends and others, very outspokenly Roger McNamee, people that used to be close to him too. He's heard it from a lot of people. I think you're correct in saying that no matter what, he's incapable of dealing with the problem.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And for him to have too much power. And I think that even today and yesterday after the pieces come out, people rush to, you know, well, why didn't you just talk to Mark about fixing this himself? And that's exactly the point. He cannot fix this. Ironically, this is the one thing. He doesn't have power over. This is what government is for to ensure that markets are dynamic competitive and fair and to protect Americans from abuses. So I think that it's hard for people to understand that both of these things can be true. It's hard for me to understand that both of these things can be true, but they are.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And fair markets work. And so it's possible both things are possible for Mark to be a good person who is trying to fix a lot of these problems.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think this was one of the hardest things in making sense of this landscape for me because You know, knowing Mark as a person, he has been a friend. I care about him. I think he is a good person. And I think he's made some mistakes and the whole world wants to, I feel like, you know, attack Mark as a person for those mistakes. And I view them as very real. They have immense gravity. He is responsible for them. And he is human. These are mistakes that he's owned. That also means, though, that we somebody has to hold him accountable. Right. You know, it's like we all make mistakes and most of us, you know, get held accountable either by a law, you know, if you with most companies, with customers, they'll walk, you know, they'll go, you serve bad food at a restaurant and give people food poisoning. They're not going to come back. This is how...”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Years after he could have afforded much more. In other words, he's very human, but it's very humanity that makes his unchecked power so problematic. I think that was a staggering statement. It was really fascinating to me. And then later you go on to say that this unprecedented power is also un-American. Really strong statement talk about that idea of this unchecked power that he has. He has no way to be fired. He is controlling, controls Facebook completely. The board is, if not a rubber stamp, maybe an advisory board for a lovely dinner every quarter. Talk about even with a nice person why that's a problem from your perspective.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I just didn't and don't feel comfortable saying one thing privately. And something else publicly. That's not how I want to live my life. I want to be authentic. I want to be honest. I understand, I very much understand that this particular point comes with consequences for me. For some of the relationships in my life, but I need to say my peace. I want to say my piece.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“As it became increasingly clear to me that Facebook is a monopoly, and it's because ongoing pattern of privacy scandals, election problems, lack of accountability, management of the system works, et cetera. Exactly that I think is causing it because there's no accountability. As that became more clear to me, you know, I have a choice. I can say that privately to close friends and just keep it close or I can be me and I can say what I think. And because I work on economic justice issues every day, this comes up. Antitrust and the concentration of corporate power in general comes up weekly if not daily in my work. And so”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, no, I have not talked about Mark. I did not talk to Mark about this piece before it was published. I started speaking out about some of Facebook's missteps last year. You have. Yeah, a few times. And as I say in the piece last time I saw him was in the summer of 2017. We had had a few exchanges after that, but the communication has trailed off. I decided to do the piece though because”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To get to the piece in a second, but I want to get the idea of what moved you to do it. So you were do it, you were doing working or stuff, you were working on income inequality. A lot of people do write and think these things, but very few people say them and understand the price of saying them How did you think about that and how you wanted to do this? And I want to know, did you tell him you were doing this?”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that's a problem. I think they understood that, but there was just still this zeal that like, well, on balance, this is human progress. Facebook moves us forward in our march of progress. And I think a lot of people are more skeptical of that now.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My sense is that has evolved, but I think the release of Andrew Bosworth's memo that, gosh, I guess that happened now a couple years ago, if I'm remembering the timeline right, I think forced Mark and others there to clarify that. Connection isn't always a good in and of itself. It matters how the tools are used. And even now, you see them, I think, wrestling with this in public. You know, it's not a good thing to connect ISIS with recruits, it's not a good thing to connect a bully with someone that they're trying to bully. You know, there are real abuses of the tools.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you stayed in touch with them, and obviously you benefited from Facebookly. So you were an early shareholder, you had early shares and everything like that. When you were talking about this idea of this missionary zeal, and they still have it, they still have the idea of connecting and Marx, all his languages around that, the premise is it's good to connect, period, everywhere.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, that's what I left in 2007 and went and ran the social networking piece of Barack Obama's first campaign for President.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Unpack exactly what that meant for him and why was that good in and of itself. And I thought it was probably a good thing, but I didn't quite share the, it wasn't a mission to me. It was more a fun project, a company that I enjoyed being a part of”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was multiple things. I liked school. I was the first in my family to be able to go to a college like Harvard. I was on financial aid, Mark and Dustin weren't. It would have been a much, it felt to me like it would have been a very big deal for me to drop out and giving up an opportunity that I'd worked very hard. To get so that was one piece of it. I think I loved what we were doing on Facebook. I did not feel the same sense of Missionary zeal, commitment, you know, just that Mark and I think some of the others did. There was this sense On his part then, and really, I think likely now that connecting the world was going to be good in and of itself, that the world should be more open and connected. And it became a refrain that, you know, was just packed with value and meaning for him. I can remember some early sessions of just trying to”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I stayed in school and then I went out to Palo Alto in June of 2006 and stayed very brief time until February of 2007. So I was a bit of an interloper. I mean, I was working in Facebook from Harvard and was out there on weekends and things. But I wasn't. I wasn't like Dustin, for instance, as part of the, you know. And why not? Why did you just?”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A lot of attention to the Uniser interfaces, prioritizing simplicity, constraining choice. So there were fewer features, but helping people feel like.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“See someone at Stanford. I, yeah, I was. I believed then and still believed that a lot of what made Facebook special and unique in that period was that it wasn't open. It wasn't the default, wasn't... Be who you want to be, invent who you want to be for the internet to see. It was much more, which was MySpace at the time. Yeah, it was. It was MySpace at the time. This was about being more or less who you really were. You sure you still chose a flattering profile photo, but it was your real name. It was your real interest and you had some fun with it. And then you connected with your real friends in later family, etc. So I do think that that was a really core differentiator for Facebook in those early days and continued to be through the rise in addition to”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, my role was lighter. I was the non technical guy of the group, so I, you know, as soon as Facebook launched, the phone calls started coming in and I Ran interference, and so all of a sudden became the spokesperson because that's what I was doing a lot of the time. We then had more of a proactive messaging strategy as we expanded to other colleges. So putting together exactly the marketing materials, the approach to recruiting folks. It was all very lightweight stuff. And a bit of customer service too for that first year. There was some product development, but it was hard to even call it that. It was, you know, do you think that you should have a running feed of all the news articles about a student on their profile without their choosing to have it? That was a little feature early on and all kinds of debates about that. Certainly the default privacy settings should a user at Harvard be able to”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Online on AOL InstaMessenger doing homework, chatting about the days or whatever. So the room that we had was, you know, we were all doing different things. It was a very typical generative kind of experience. I don't know if it was typical, but it was fun. You know, we were, yeah, I guess.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then were paired with Dustin and Billy in a room. And then we all became roommates. So, you know, I talk in the book about how the role that luck has played in my life. Like I am well aware that I am the lucky roommate of Mark Zuckerberg. I did a lot of work in the early days of Facebook. I'm proud of that. And I'm also the lucky roommate of Mark Zuckerberg because in that room, we were talking about all kinds of different ideas. Mark was always trying things out. And this was one in a series of projects. So, you know, we kept different patterns. He went to bed a lot later than I did. I got up earlier in the morning, but we did have a lot of overlap in the evenings when we were just hanging out in the common room reading on.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, Mark and I met freshman Of college. We started Facebook later on sophomore year. We weren't really friends, to be honest We had several mutual friends, and we were acquaintances. We joined what's called a blocking group. At Harvard, you choose half a dozen eight people and you move from your freshman dorm into a dorm that you're going to live in the rest of your life. So he and I were part of the same blocking group.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh my Yeah, I know. One of my colleagues was like, Wow, the bleach blonde. I said, What are you talking about? I haven't done my hair.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that Facebook and the social media ecosystem definitely amplified the fringe. Those voices became louder. More people heard them. They became more legitimate. And I think they helped fuel his rise and the rise of other nationalist leaders across the globe. Now, Facebook has done a lot of things since then to change the newsfeed. They're trying to write the ship. And I think a lot of those things are headed in the right direction, but they're just not enough. I just don't think that Facebook can.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, it was, and was that just a reflection of the vanity that we all feel when we, you know, get up in the morning and want to look nice as we go about our days? Or was that actually amplifying that and making it worse? And so now 15 years on, I think social media has, I mean, mental health studies have documented that it is making particularly teens more self-conscious, more aware of themselves. And that is a problem. Similarly back to your question with the election in 2016. You know, Donald Trump rose for a whole host of reasons, not just Facebook.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's when I started to wake up A little bit. I can't say to the antitrust issues at that phase, but to how Facebook was changing. World. I mean, I wish I had been more aware earlier. I mean, it seems in retrospect sort of late actually. But I do think the challenge for me, and I think for a lot of other people, is to figure out how much social media is just reflecting who we've always been. Or how much is it actually changing how we are as people and as a society now? And I was talking a little bit yesterday about this problem back in the very, very beginning of early days, you know, how much time people spend with that list of what are your favorite movies?”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Rental cars, we can go through a long list. I do Know more about tech and Facebook and that sector. And there is a real problem as I write in the piece with Facebook's size. And so that was my departure point for the first time.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I'd love to talk about other companies besides Facebook. People always look at me and think that kind of knows Facebook. And I do know a thing or two about Facebook, but I have been thinking a lot about antitrust in general. So, you know, there is an increasing concentration across three quarters of American industries have become more concentrated over the past 20 years. I mean, that's a fancy way of saying. It's just fewer firms and they're bigger and bigger. And it's part of a trend. If you look at average markups on prices, that's been increasing. If you look at the rate of small business entrepreneurship, that's been decreasing. And it's something that, you know, the open markets initiative, the Roosevelt Institute, there are whole, there's a whole ecosystem that is trying to highlight these problems and talk about solutions to them. And again, it's not just digital. It's in airlines, healthcare, prescription.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What I had no idea would turn into this piece in January and it got longer and longer. It's great. It was even longer for a period. And anyway, then chatted with some folks at the New York Times who kindly agreed to run it and do some stuff around it. And now it's in the world.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is the idea of creating an income floor for everyone. In other words, ensuring that people have enough money that they can make ends meet. And so on my journeys on the book tour, I had a lot of people engage with the argument and say, that makes sense if markets are dynamic and competitive and fair. Otherwise, all the money's going to get eaten up in housing and healthcare. And I had thought about this somewhat, but this particular line of critique really stuck with me. So I started reading, talking to a lot of experts, learning everything I could about how specifically the concentration of corporate power in markets and the history of antitrust. And as I became more immersed in the literature, it was hard to sidestep the fact that much of my life has been made possible by Facebook. And Facebook is now a monopoly. So I started wrestling with that on my own for last year quite a bit and then began writing.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's been a long time coming for me. So, as you said at the top, I've worked on income inequality for a few years now. And a little over a year ago, I published a book that was a bit my story, but it was also an argument for a guaranteed income.”
2019-05-10 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT