YouSaid · the spoken record

Crystal Widjaja

lines on the record: 74
first: 2022-07-31
most recent: 2022-07-31
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yes, please find me at CrystalWigia.com. You can reach out to me and my email is there. Listeners, please do instrumentation correctly. Don't trap your KPIs. Please track your user journeys and experiences. We'll have much funner things to talk about if you do that.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, enterprise software. We love to teach iOS development, licensed software. We have hundreds of students a year. So let us know.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think there is still a lot of this mental model of what a computer scientist is able to do and how much support they're given. So it's been shown in studies that at the youngest generation middle school high school, you are more likely to be given introductory STEM classes as a male than as a female. So women just aren't targeted for STEM at that younger age. And so when they enter the high school or college classes for computer science, they're way behind. And that does not feel good. No one likes to be like the worst in the class. And so it's more likely that you'll drop out. We've seen studies at Carnegie Mellon that actually would create introductory computer science classes before the college class starts. And for the women who did join those classes, they actually graduated at similar rates.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Only in Indonesia because, frankly, this is where everyone needs the most support. I mean, globally, STEM is not well received or welcoming at all to women. I think it's gotten worse over the past few decades, like below 18% of college graduates are women in computer science. So we're really trying to reach the youngest generation because that's when you are told or informed that computer science is for specific types of people.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Thing that we're most excited about because every teacher impacts thousands of students a year. And being able to teach the teachers and give them the resources that they need is something that's really important.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we've already had several thousand students go through generation girl summer clubs and programs and classes. So we have an event every week. We have a full summer club that's every single day for two weeks every summer and every winter. We have partnerships with some of the biggest tech companies in Indonesia where we partner students with engineers and they work on projects together. And most recently we're part of the MIT solve program with our new initiative Collas. So plus we're creating a free-to-use site for teachers. So right now we have partnered with a handful of universities in Indonesia, both in rural and city of Jakarta, where teachers can now have the knowledge and material to explain newer concepts that maybe they're less familiar with because startup world changes rapidly, how you develop changes rapidly. So this is one.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or data, and you can be whoever you want and still kick ass at it. So a lot of the women that we support, we're actually happy if they go into one of our classes and they say, actually, I don't like engineering. That's great. That's agency and empowerment that they got to make that decision for themselves without any cultural biases or social pressure telling them that they should feel this way. So we offer free classes for girls 12 to 17. We have college classes. We partner with teachers about how to teach STEM topics, especially in areas where they don't have laptops for every student. Like how do you teach, how do you use Figma and things like that? So people can definitely support us and reach out to us. We have a PayPal on our website. Take a look.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. Yes, Generation Girl is very near and dear to my heart. So I co founded this with a couple of amazing women who were also at Gojek, but are now full-time at Generation Girl. So this really stemmed from us repeatedly getting annoying comments about working in STEM. So things like you can't possibly be the engineer on this project. Like you look like you like makeup and stuff. And we were like, yes. I absolutely love makeup, but I also am badass at writing Swift code. So step aside. So having experienced a lot of the kind of misrepresentation of what an engineer should look like or should like, I think we really look to legally blonde is one of my favorite movies that represents you can take the powers that you have, whether you like engineering or design.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I don't think live works really well for these case studies. Like, I want to see people put in the time and the work to do something to the best of their ability. And of course, we ask them like, hey, you have five days. We expect you to spend probably like four hours on this. So if you don't have four hours within these five days, let us know. So we're pretty careful about giving them the appropriate amount of time to do it at the level of quality that we would have expected if they were to work here full time. So give them those four hours. We want to see like, do they Google if they can't figure it out right now? Like, let's see them Google it. We'll ask them what approaches they took, how do they figure this out? And we like to hear people say that they literally had to Google this and read a bunch of white papers. Like, I do that as well.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Acceptance rates by 2% across the board. And when we look deeper into that data, it did even more so for brand new drivers. And so we then worked with the driver onboarding team so they could better facilitate the onboarding experience for their drivers.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What tools are available. So a growth team can go terribly wrong when they just try to onboard a bunch of brand new tools that don't integrate well. And it takes six months to integrate fully. And then they get nothing done for six months. Like everything in growth is an opportunity cost of time trade-off with what you could have been doing to the product in that time. So we buy it towards like really quick, hacky things. Like in the early days of GoJet growth, I think our first real growth experiment, we were actually still the data team at this time was to connect quick Python script to the Twilio API that we had access to. And we SMS a bunch of drivers through a CSV that we uploaded that said like, hey, your acceptance rate is really low. You're not supposed to do that. Please accept all the rides that you are getting. And that actually increased.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yep. I actually look for that first principle bias. So I'll give people case studies of like, here's what we see. How do you know that this is true? And then I have them set up an experiment design. I want to see that they are sampling randomly. Not that they're like, I'm going to build this feature and launch it. And of course it's going to work. I want to see that they are taking a measured deliberate approach to considering like why someone might do this or”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would hire someone who is willing to take an intro to statistics course and it doesn't matter like if they've had the experience like go wild or not I think it really is like can they focus on the right opportunity rather than the most flashy thing and I think both profiles can come under that”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yep. You have to have someone who knows how to run the numbers, right? If you're looking at ratios of conversion rates, but you don't realize that this ratio is of a Size, you're going to make the wrong decision. So someone who is intuitively good at statistics, they know how to do sampling appropriately. They know what selection biases. Like the worst possible thing is to have a growth person who thinks they are doing the right thing and is measuring things wrong and then focusing on the wrong areas.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think it can work as a separate growth team to the side if the company is truly head over heels tripping on insane product market fit. Like if there is insane product market fit and you are really scrambling to do core feature stacks, then maybe a growth team to come and be cleanup is fine. Like we really called ourselves like, we're the cleanup crew. We pick up the pieces that were left behind. We connect the dots. Like if we forgot to plug this in, we'll plug it in for you. But we were a team of like lots of stats heavy people. So a lot of my team were like statistics graduates. We cared a lot about looking at numbers and odds and probabilities because it really is a numbers game at that scale. You could work on anything and everything would probably do something. But what was the thing that would make the most impact now and unlock us for the future?”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. I think it's just setting the bar too high to expect someone to come in and model everything. Like, again, there are physics in place. It's very hard to move everything. So it's really about having someone who already has all of this data, knows where the biggest gaps are, doesn't have to start from scratch and figure this out, and then just picks some small space to work on that they know is workable.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it was all of these small acquisition, adoption, and engagement use cases that growth was filling the gap on. Eventually, we embedded our growth, I would say product managers at the time into these teams. And they ended up kind of synthesizing what growth was as a full-time role. Eventually becoming PMs who own specific parts of the product stack.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was a growth objective that isn't necessarily core feature work, but was a gap to fill given the onboarding and SMS success delivery rates, things like telling the driver if this was a brand new customer, because at this point in time, drivers had taken thousands of rides and they assumed every single customer knew how Gojek worked when maybe they didn't. And so we knew that the protocol was that a power user would know they would make an order and they would just wait. They would wait somewhere, they would keep an eye out for a driver, and then they would get on the motorcycle and go. But for a brand new user, are you supposed to walk to the driver? Like, are you supposed to find them? It's unclear to his brand new, uneducated new user how to use the product. And so first time user experience could have been a terrible one where they went and wafted off and then the driver came to the pickup point and they couldn't find.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so I can talk about how growth was set up at Gojek as an example, which I think is probably the best practice. So we didn't really know that what growth was at that time, but we knew there were obvious gaps to fill. So because we had grown so thickly, the core product team was still making the core product features, like as simple as phone number masking. That wasn't a thing yet. you had access to your driver's phone number. It's probably not a great thing. It's probably part of the core functionality and we need to fill that gap. At the same time, growth was still necessary because you have all of these users trying to use a product that aren't quite getting there. So things like figuring out what SMS provider we should use to send the OTP to this user who is signing up from this telco provider.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They've really re-instrumented a lot of the dashboards that I would have normally had to do in experimentation projects. So I usually look at something like EPO to just automate the decision making flow.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Really depends on how early they are. So if they have a single data warehouse with all their transactional data, usually I say like you can probably get by with Google Data Studio. It's free. Usually with whatever you're using, if not Metabase has a great open source free tool, if you have someone who can write SQL or if you have multiple databases, then Metabase is great. If you need an app mobile device event tracking, I usually recommend Clevertap because MIT's panel has unfortunately failed me a lot. And Amplitude doesn't have the CRM components that I would need all in one space. If I am much bigger and I need more analytics juice, maybe amplitude makes sense on top of this or something like that helps me pipe data into more dashboards and do less ETL for me than I would get into segment. And then once you get into experimentation, obviously have to shout out to EPO.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I think it's important to just go through examples. Yes, every product is different, but everyone has the same sign up flow for the most part. So look at the signup flow examples that I have in the blog post or in, I believe, amplitude actually has a pretty good long-winded documentation on this, on how to do event tracking. But it's really a matter of sitting down and thinking really deeply. If I were to press this button, why would I and why would I not? And am I tracking that in my user properties? So it's really just like sitting down and mapping out the experience.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can help you look at hey, when a user only sees two drivers on the screen, they're much less likely to convert than a user who sees five drivers on a screen. Now we can look at in what cities and in what latitude and longitudes do we mostly only see two drivers versus five drivers. Like being able to do these second layer approach of the why and not just stop at that, that's weird when you have two drivers who are less likely to book, but then you never ask why like that drives me crazy or the inability to even know that like there were only two drivers on the screen like you're missing so much context of the user's experience that you're unable to make assumptions about why the user didn't converge.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I already know if a team is good at instrumentation or not just by looking at the instrumentation spec. Symptom of a bad data tracking approach is you have a ton of rows with a ton of events, but every event has like one property or no property being tracked. So an example with Gojek would be when a user lands on the map to select a drop-off point. The event would be drop off or like map loaded, let's say. And the properties there should be things like how many drivers do they see on the screen? What is the pickup location? Is it what city is it in? What latitude and longitude is it? What is the, is there surge pricing? What is the current minimum fare? Do they have a voucher code? All of these characteristics.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“More likely to use a free shipping discount on a high GMV basket versus non-power users. And that actually tells you how to change your marketing approach. It tells you that in what circumstances does someone do this when it's a high GMD basket? Give power users the ability to get a free discount, but do not do this for non power users because they won't convert any better than they normally would. So it helps you change your marketing spend. It helps you understand the decision points of power users versus non-power users. The insight is instrumenting properties into an event so that you can segment who is doing what behavior and make some hypotheses on that observation test that hypothesis and then you get some causal representation of whether or not that hypothesis was right.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So another example would be if I see my girlfriend hanging out with a guy I don't know. That is an observed fact that you see in the real world. Your hypothesis could be that your girlfriend is cheating on you, but the insight, the actual fact might be that she's not cheating on you, it's her cousin. And now your insight is I am paranoid and I need to change my behavior to be less crazy. So the insight will provide value when you have this why answered why is this person doing this thing? Here's why. And then you are going to act differently. So for our purposes, if we look at A Goku user will transact and is more likely to use a voucher. That's a fact. That's an observation. But it's not an insight. An insight would be something like. Go food users who are power users.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the real world. And if you don't change what you're doing, what you are doing is just getting entertainment. So let's use that as the premise. The next step in instrumentation is to look at the fact that measurements do not equate to insights. A measurement would be an observation. It's a data point in your database. So the example being power users do four times more bookings is an observed fact because your transactional database obviously says that that is the case, but it's not an insight because it doesn't have context. It doesn't give you information that lets you act on it and better understand the problem.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They recognize all of those symptoms, but they weren't sure why it was happening. So to say, like, oh, this is the thing, instrumentation is what's wrong, I think it's a very actionable thing. Like it's probably one of the most solvable problems out there. It just takes some time and mental model shifts to do it well. So a lot of people look at tracking data as how do I track my OKR? How do I know if I'm going up or down? But they don't use it to track or identify insights. So I will use the example of using Twitter for quote unquote news when in reality they're actually using Twitter for entertainment. Do not treat metric gathering as entertainment. Like it's not there for you to be like, oh, that's interesting. How novel and then not act on it. So real news is information that changes what you do.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm actually pretty surprised at how much noise that has generated because I guess it came from a place of frustration where I kept telling people like you were doing this wrong. Here's how you should probably be doing it. But I think it resonated a lot with folks because.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Helped alleviate a lot of the churn that was becoming very hard to reacquire back. So that was one fix where we looked at the, again, physics of the model. Like we're not going to create New changes to the product or create one time buys or like reactivation emails will just solve the problem at that small constraint where everyone drops off.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Things that have worked really well. So for one of the companies I work with, AB and Bev, they run a lot of their D2C brands in South America and globally. So one of the features that we were looking at was how do we ensure that subscriptions don't actually become a canceling point for a user? So in the app, you could cancel or you could resume your subscription, but you couldn't pause it. So when we looked at the cancellation reasons and we saw that their number one reason was I still have too much fear, we actually decided, well, let's just add a pause button then because like canceling the subscription is a permanent solution to having too much beer. How do you make a temporary solution that solves the actual problem? Adding in a pause button actually”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If they could top up through that channel. Because that was something that was pretty interesting to us was just how do we tie the familiarity loop back into the consumer mental model of the product and drive acquisition that way.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, definitely in the early days, it was copy. So I think if your product does something that's not super familiar, you have to tie it to something that is. So I talked about using drivers to sell GoPay. Before that, one thing that we did was to actually take someone's virtual account number and put it onto a picture of a credit card. Like, you know what a credit card is. That's familiar to you. A lot of people didn't know what a digital wallet was. And so when they looked at this, like, oh, okay, I have this virtual thing that acts like a credit card. It works like my debit account. Then they understood the concept a lot better. And we actually saw top-ups increase based on us literally just sending that picture with someone's virtual account number there. So they could go to an ATM and they would just type in the card number as they would a regular debit account and they realize.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Job to be done if they really want to be part of a community, how do they fill out this? Do they fill out the form? Do they fill out a questionnaire of like many questions? Do they go through this friction just to get access to a community? So we almost create this artificial friction to help differentiate how deeply a user wants something or needs something. And if a user doesn't fill out that questionnaire, maybe they're actually looking for something else. They were looking for entertainment. They were looking for content or short form content. And so creating almost like hand raiser approaches for a user to say like, I wanted this thing. We leave a lot of breadcrumbs in the app to be able to identify those paths.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I'm always very hesitant to talk about Kumuka as there's so much competition right now, and we're like on the cusp of some very interesting. Interesting things. But I think for Kumu, it's actually very complex because there's a lot of human emotion that is involved, like with Gojek, you knew if you got the job done. You made a transaction. With Kumu, how do you know if a consumer made a friend? Like felt like they had a genuine friendship. So you almost have to create more friction to identify users who really got past that barrier and are explicit with the activity that they did. So we have features that tell us if a user is really searching for this.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think you always had to start from the fact that we are not wizards. Like it's very hard to move the physics of a universe when you are trying these new things. So start with what currently works and currently exists and where you think the biggest constraint is or the best lever is and then fix that one piece because the entire universe isn't exploding like you're not the world isn't changing so dramatically that your physics changed. So I think rooted in reality is very important.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, using them as the salesperson, you would have believed how great of a salesperson someone can be when you were literally trapped in a car with them going somewhere. And so you have this captive audience, captive attention. You have someone who has the incentive to cross-pay or cross-sell someone and to go pay. And customers were able to feel the benefit because the driver was explaining it to them directly. It was one small, there was no change to the physics. It was a lever usage.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In looking at the model this way, we had thought through what is our goal? We want go pay to be much bigger than it really is. It's an e-wallet service. Users are able to get access to this digital balance. How do we drive adoption? And so when we looked at the lever of, we have a driver, we actually created an incentive model. So we built a very small service that would check when a driver got allocated to a customer, again, the product and the model. We would then check in the database has this customer ever used our go pay product before? Did they have a digital balance? And if the answer was no, we would message the driver and immediately, hey, this customer hasn't done a go-pay top-up before. If you get them to give you cash and we deposit it into their virtual wallet, we'll give you extra money.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's both figure out how you're growing and also the elements that you have at your disposal. Like what are the levers that you have that maybe you've never tried using? When we looked at our model this way, we actually realized we had underutilized the driver's capacity to drive our growth. Pun definitely intended.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Does that fit into these physics? Or do you have to change like four or five different things? So we were very careful about changing too many parameters and making too many bets on too many variables going our way. So we would always change like one small thing at a time and make sure that it fit into the model.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Charged per order, channel. We are able to do this through push notifications or in acquiring new users. It might be through Facebook ads. And this was a really big insight for us. It's the real world. There was a physical conception of a driver in a jacket driving around the city who is marketing Gojek for us. And word of mouth actually was primarily driven by, I saw a driver on the street, so I knew Gojek was here. That actually was a huge driver of all of Gojack's growth as it expanded to new cities. So step one is what are the physics? Step two is when you think about loops and growth funnels and the quantitative inputs to each loop.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I basically talked with the reforge folks about here's what I would do in all of these scenarios. And they're like, oh, so you're mean, you're doing this step one, step two. And I was like, yes, actually, how did you figure that out? So I don't really think in frameworks. Like this is just a logical process to me. But I think what I figured out is it's step one, like you have constraints, right? Similar to our sandbox example of like everything in the world that's orange versus everything in a construction site you have to think about the physics of the current market, the product, the model and the channels that you're using. So to use Gojek as an example, it would be market of Indonesia. Here are the consumers in this market, the driver side, supply side in this market. Here is the product, mobile app. We're able to connect drivers and consumers. There is a allocation that we create model.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure. So I thought that this Was not an obvious process. It wasn't like an explicit process until I worked with Reforge to build my data for PMs program. Gotta get that plug there.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I am actually thinking of it as cohorts. So 60% should be your week one, and then it should flatten. I think I usually give teams like two to three weeks or frequency periods to see things flatten, but it better flatten around 60% for a free product. That's actually what we saw at Gojek early days. It was like 60, 70% retention rates because people were using this product that really solved a huge problem for them. And I think that's when I knew we were going to be fine. If people keep coming back, the product just needs to work.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Mean, don't make the same mistake that Netflix and Spotify have made, which I guess is when they've launched, they've started international expansion and they see this very small percentage of users start to sign up for Spotify or Netflix. There are very few people, though, in Southeast Asia or internationally that have the types of credit cards that Spotify or Netflix would accept. And so when they launch in these markets and they see a ton of uptick in the first week, they're like, this is only going to get better. When in reality, it's like you just pulled forward everyone who could have possibly subscribed to you. Now you're going to have to work a lot harder to get everyone else.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. Coming back in the second week or month or whenever your frequency ratio is. And this is at scale. So if you are much smaller, like your friends and family, that better be near close to 80% no matter what. Because if you can't even convince the people who care about you to use the product, it probably isn't going to solve the job for anyone else.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, assuming that the frequency is correct, so you have a weekly frequency, if users are coming back, if it's a free product, 60%, right? It has to be at least 60%. If it's a free product, we go for a week. If it's a paid product, I usually look at that more as like maybe 20 to 30 percent.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Would convert if you fixed this? That's a definite potential win. So we try to layer these definite wins with like crazy bets of brand new feature with no data. At least run an experiment if you can. But I always try to layer in these sure wins.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If there is conversion and they're just not as frequent, I try to look at what the most painfully long conversion events are. So users who eventually check out or eventually completed the aha moment, what are the user paths? And what is the longest one that seems like it's the most painful? Are there enough people trying to do that? And how do we shorten that cycle? So for Kumu, it was things like users wanted to sign up and find their friends on Kumu. And so they were using search frequently. Search was underutilized API. It was kind of slow. We sped that up. Conversion rates go from 60% to 90%, like over the course of a few weeks of just optimizing that and putting more content there. So looking at like where are people doing things and then failing? Like you already know this percent of people.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I do find if you have a lot of people landing on a web page or an app and then not doing anything, then it's probably copy. Like they haven't even experienced the product. It's clearly not the product that's wrong. So how can you change the copy and resonate with the pain point rather than the solution you are offering so that users understand how to fit themselves into the use case? So copy is a big one. If I see conversion rates aren't landing between app launch to some first action.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source