YouSaid · the spoken record

Crystal Widjaja

lines on the record: 74
first: 2022-07-31
most recent: 2022-07-31
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, I think I see a lot of founders grasping at straws. So there'll be like this brand new feature that does something kind of different from what people are already doing on our app. Like this will make things work. But they don't have any wizard of all. Don't have any data of users currently trying to do that. And that's a sign of like why this instead of literally anything else that you could be doing.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's usually the step right before conversion. So if they aren't sure why the user opens the app or they aren't sure why the user got to this checkout page, it's often some copy or the path has been ineffective in some way. I'd like to see founders think about the user psych model that Darius contractor often talks about. you need some momentum in that user journey to get them over the hump of some of these very painful user processes like typing in a credit card that's a lot of work how do you lower that friction And being able to sequence the right steps effectively and just moving around screens actually can do a lot.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think a lot of people thought that I had meant like retention sucks. Don't care about it at all. But in reality, it was really like when you think about retention, like that's just not specific enough. So there is this mental model that I use from made to stick where they'll tell you, Lenny, think of everything in the world that is orange. And you're like an orange, what else? And then if you change that structure with sand marks to think of everything orange that's in a construction site, then you really start to realize and grasp at concrete concepts and can actually action on them in real life.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Already had permission to look at who they had connected with on Facebook. We actually looked at the food that their friends had purchased and used that as a data set of, hey, here's food that Lenny purchased and liked maybe you would like it too. And so that was one way to hack the trust factor. And we did find that when we told people this friend purchased from this merchant, you would be twice as likely to purchase from a brand new restaurant than users who did not have this feature. And that Increases GMV that eventually gets you to the conversion rate that you wanted, but it solved a different problem before how do I convert? It was, how do I solve for trust? How do I break the barrier of facilitating that decision-making process, that aha moment, by fixing the setup moment, which was trust.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So everyone wants to go on retention. They want to see that users are doing this thing and they want to get from step zero to 100 really quickly, but they don't realize that like users make decisions based on succeeding events. So what's one step before the user makes that decision? What are the things that they have to do, the things that have to be done? We're always looking for what is a specific reason that this user might have converted for things like GoFood, it would be things like when does a user tried a new merchant if what people are ordering right now are just food that they already trust and know. If you need to have trust in order to purchase food from a merchant, how do we generate that trust? So we actually hacked it by connecting people's Facebook connect login.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You have to. I mean, like every idea is so cheap at that scale. Like you could do things that don't scale dramatically better with 30 people than at 100 if you're testing.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You should. I mean, even if you have a sample size of 30 The data you get back generally does not change, but it's precision will. So mathematically speaking, you're going to get the same level of trends, but the precision at which you understand those trends will become more deep. If you have more data, the underlying information that you're getting out of that won't be very different at larger scales. So what's better than having 30 data points, certainly having 100, but what's better than having zero is definitely 30.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like the only thing better than knowing, like if you have data of what your customers are doing, that is the best data you could ever get. And so if you don't have a tested hypothesis, if you can't think of a way to run an experiment, then honestly that idea is pretty useless. Like maybe it makes sense to the market, to the model. But you could have weird consumer sentiments. Like, not everyone is a rational actor. So testing the actual experience and seeing how people respond to it, that's the best possible data.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was literally a stadium that we rented like a football field, a couple football fields, if I'm not wrong, long lines, boxes of phones and SIM cards. So it was a lot of just like doing really hard work to get to that scale.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Eventually, I think finding stuff that does scale intuitively. We knew that we were sending out lots of fake features through things like type form surveys, things like a personality quiz can be very easily done through typeform. And we realized that if we built in the in-app web page and we made it easier for us to do a website deployment on our back end side, we wouldn't have to wait for a mobile app release to test some of these new features out that could be done on web. So it's really just like, what is the user experience that we want to create? How do we manifest that as quickly as possible? Let's just try that first.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Have the customer give you $10. Text us when they say yes, someone will be sitting by this phone all day, every day, will look up the customer that you are on a ride with in the back end, will give them the vouchers in the back end, and then we'll deduct $10 from your balance. Like it works. It's really this Wizard of Oz experience. We don't have to build anything. I coordinated with a bunch of interns and we were able to validate some of the value prop and conversion rates that we would expect in a subscription service. When we wanted to do a new onboarding screen, but turns out we have lots of engineering work to do. We took a screenshot of the screen as is and we just had our designer put what the onboarding flow might look like if we had to overlay it on top of the screen and we just sent that as like an in-app message. And then eventually.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We obviously know our driver's phone numbers. Why don't we just add them to a WhatsApp group? We'll add 100 drivers randomly to a WhatsApp group. We'll tell them every time you are on a ride with a customer, try to sell them this pitch. You are the only driver who can sell a subscription package.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So we did kind of crazy things, right? Like if someone told you in the US that they were going to rent out a stadium, preload a bunch of mobile devices, market that drivers should come here en masse for a job fair. They're going to give them a phone and send them on their way. Like some people would kind of say no. Like that's kind of crazy what we get in trouble. And to an extent, maybe that's true. So maybe there are some limitations there. concept of doing things that are somewhat crazy but validate a point, doing stuff that don't scale, especially I think is really the bread and butter of what we did at Gojek. Like we were insanely scrappy. We would do things as simple as wanting to test a subscription feature, which was just released in Singapore a couple of weeks ago. We ended up saying we have this voucher system that we can distribute vouchers in the backend.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. So there's a decision factor that you don't really have in the US because the cloud storage and device capacity there is a little bit bigger.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think the sentimentality of a conglomerate is very different in Southeast Asia. So we've grown up with a specific conglomerate owning not just the mole that you go to, but also the apartment building that you live in and the school that you go to. And so they're very well integrated. And there's a sense of trust in a conglomerate. Whereas in America, we already kind of shy away from like, does Google know too much about me? There's also, I think, the second aspect of it, which is that in Asia, we've kind of leapfrogged to the computer era. So everyone has a phone, but you may not even have a computer in the entire household. And so when your phone is full, are you going to delete a photo of your kid or are you going to delete this app? You're probably going to delete the app. So for anyone to really survive, it has to be part of this super app concept.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This mobile app made a little bit less sense at the time because most drivers didn't have a mobile app, but I felt like it was a problem that was very solvable. And we ended up renting a stadium to just hire like 60,000 drivers in a couple of weeks. So I think looking back, it was certainly a risk. Like when I got there, it was in a house and I realized I've probably made a huge mistake. We were growing very quickly already. even at that small scale of like 4,000 orders per day.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Honestly, he's probably a lot of luck, but also at that age, I realized I have very little to lose. So with Gojek, I think I felt like it was the right company because I was able to really clearly understand the value propagate in Indonesia is crazy. It takes you two hours to go 20 kilometers. So of course you want to take a motorcycle taxi to beat that traffic. Of course, you don't want to go out and get food and then have to come back this long pathway of two hours. So I think taking that warren buffet approach, I knew that the product made sense. The market made sense as well. So drivers there were already a thing, but it was very hard to connect them to the consumer. It was painful to haggle prices. There were lots of restaurants scattered across Indonesia. So the value prop and the market made sense and the channel by which you would do it through”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then Kumu is kind of a super app for social. So Gojek was very transactional. It was like, here's a job to be done. I want to pay for something and someone delivers it to me. And with Kumu, it's more so of a, I want to do clubhouse, Zoom, Google Hangouts, gather around all in one app. So we cover social feeds, audio, video, multi-seats. There's a ton of different use cases that we serve on Kumu and Kumu is primarily in the Philippines, but ranks top 10 in a bunch of countries as a top-grossing mobile app.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, they are pretty massive. So Gojek is now called GoTo. They just merged with the largest e-commerce platform in Indonesia. So across Southeast Asia, we had about 170 million users. Southeast Asia has scale. If you ever wanted to work at scale, you would go to Southeast Asia. We had 20 plus different services from transportation to food, shopping, medicine delivery, bill pay, movie tickets. So it was like all of the startups in America in one app, all being built at the same time with the same user base. And so everything was tremendously layered because you could fill all of these opportunity gaps in the market where a single app would probably not be as sustainable. So Gojek is massive across Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I got extremely lucky. Five years fly by insanely fast. I went through building out the data team from scratch. When you have all of the data, you know how much fraud you have in the system. So then I ended up building out the fraud and risk team, picked up performance marketing. And then it was like, okay, now we're ready to grow. So you have all of this data. Now take on growth.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I ended up leaving that job because I realized that if I wanted to get into something more tech, it would probably not be at an investment bank. So I took the investment banking strategies that I had learned there and kind of applied the same pattern matching to companies in Southeast Asia. So my family originally is from Indonesia. I thought I have a kind of safety net. I must speak Indonesian really well just by birth. So maybe that's a great country for me to look at. So I took kind of the approach of let's find a company that makes a lot of sense that I feel I resonate with and I literally cold called emails and some companies. So Gojack being on that list, I literally emailed someone after Googling HR at Gojack and said, I'm willing to move to Indonesia, take a bet on me. And they actually did.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ahead of you. So I ended up taking an investment banking research job. And my job there was to figure out how to call startups and analyze their potential for VC financing or M&A advisory. And I barely knew what those words meant at the time. I ended up owning a huge Excel database of like 130,000 rows, 60 plus columns. And because again, I am very impatient. I was like, this is a terrible experience. How would I create a customer database? And so I ended up kind of Google fooing all of the work needed to build a MySQL database. I presented a plan and investment banking, surprise, surprise. It's not very tech forward. So they looked at my plans and they're like, what is this my SQL thing? Isn't that super expensive? What is open source?”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think my path was certainly a nonstandard one while I grew up in San Jose, the Bay Area. You could see companies like Lyft kind of emerging around the year that I was graduating college. But really it was how do I graduate college as quickly as possible because this is very boring. So I took a polyci major. I am not a math or computer science major. I didn't know what a consultant was because I was just like trying to get out of college. I didn't realize people start looking for jobs before they graduate. So the last two weeks of school, I was looking on Craigslist because I was like, Craigslist is how everyone gets a job, right? I'm like a first generation American student. So my parents could not help me at all with like, you should look into this company called McKinsey or hear all of the life paths that you have.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I felt like it was a problem that was very solvable, and we ended up renting a stadium to just hire like 60,000 drivers in a couple of weeks. So I think looking back, it was certainly a risk. Like when I got there, it was in a house. And I realized I've probably made a huge mistake. But we were growing very quickly already, even at that small scale of like 4,000 orders per day.”
2022-07-31 · Lenny's Podcast · How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source