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Daniel Goleman

lines on the record: 90
first: 2024-01-07
most recent: 2024-01-07
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“With how your sense of yourself matches with how people see you. And that means getting input from other people, usually anonymously. Very few people will be candid with you, you know, and say you're this kind of person, or I think you're too uptight, you get angry too much. People don't want to tell you that. They want to preserve the relationship, particularly if they work for you. So anyway, there are many measures called 360 degree measures. I have one the emotional and social competence inventory. It's managed by Corn Ferry. And it evaluates people anonymously. You get to pick, say, the half dozen or ten people whose opinions you respect, who know you well, who are going to rate you anonymously so they can be totally honest. You won't know what they said about you. But you get an aggregate and it gives you a profile of what your strengths and limits are.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The somatic markers is basically just sensing how your body is feeling. And here it's helpful to know what your triggers are, when you're more likely to get into a state that isn't optimal for making a good decision because an investor has to be clear-headed. And so you want to sense something building before it takes you over. It might be, oh, I got that feeling in my stomach again. I'm getting anxious or I've got the sensing my knees and I'm getting angry. I think that's a skill, that is a skill of self-awareness for sure. And that helps you know when you're about to get into a state where your emotions are taking you over. And you should never make a decision, let alone an investment decision from those states because it's not your clear-headed decision. Another way to, another dimension of self-awareness has to do”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“people because that's what the general demographic is in the population. That doesn't mean that those people feel they belong. It's much more important to be welcoming, to listen, to be respectful, and give that person a sense that, yes, I belong here. That really accomplishes the goal.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because the other person is then feeling heard, feeling felt. That's very important to that person. It means they know you're paying attention. You respect them. Even if you may not agree with them, you want to know what their position is. And that validates the other person. And if you're the leader, that's very important. One of the things, by the way, about groups that we find in our research is that at Google, when they looked at their top teams, they called it psychological safety in the work of my colleague Vanessa Druscat, who studies high-performing groups. She calls it belonging. If you feel you belong. So, for example, if you have a diversity and inclusion goal in your organization, as many do these days, it's not enough just to have X number of Y.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is why this matters. So you need to then, another step is practice at every naturally occurring opportunity, like with your teenager or with someone in your office, and get support. You know, if you can get a coach, great, someone who's going to help you because you're sure to have bad days the day you blew it. I went back to my old way. I was pressured whenever, then you use that as a learning opportunity. What can you do next time this happens to be sure that you do it right? But if you practice, you're going to hit that neural landmark where it becomes automatic.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm going to listen and then I'm going to say what I think they meant and then say what I think. That is a new behavior and it's like learning a golf stroke. At first it's awkward. It doesn't feel comfortable. The more you practice, the more comfortable it gets until there is a neural landmark where the new behavior is practiced so much, it becomes automatic. That means a different part of the brain is taken it over, the basal ganglia where habit is. And that's going to stick with you. That's not going to go away. I sometimes, you know, I'm often asked to give keynotes at companies and so on. And one of the things I have to say is, you know, you may learn something from this. You may get a little motivated. It won't last. This is not development.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If you have. So first of all, you want to want it. Second, it helps to understand what would help you get where you want to go. Third, can you engineer that into a particular behavioral sequence? I'll give you a common example. Many, many people, particularly leaders, are poor listeners. By poor listener, I mean, you interrupt people. You talk over them. They come in, they want to talk to you about X. You want to talk to them about Y and they talk for 18 seconds. This is what they found with physicians and patients, by the way. And then you take over the conversation. That's terrible habit if you want to be a good listener, if you want to really be able to empathize and understand the other person. So you might have a behavioral sequence to practice. Like when someone comes to talk to me and it could be your teenager, by the way, the brain doesn't really distinguish between work and life.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Five years, what would help you get there? In other words, you want the motivation to come from within. You don't want someone to feel like, oh man, my boss said I have to go to this training, you know, you're already not going to learn anything.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly, exactly. And you can get better and better. And I think the fundamental of any of these development methods is practice. It's like developing any skill. And by the way, this is very important. The way you strengthen emotional intelligence is through skill building. It's like building, it's like practicing your golf stroke. It is not like cognitive learning in academia. And cognitive learning, you have a pre-existing network, cognitive network of understanding. And you plug in the new thing, you know, how to subtract if you're a seven-year-old or how to add if you're a five-year-old. And that's a different method of learning. But to get better at any aspect of emotional intelligence, I think you have to be motivated. It has to matter to you. One of the ways this is done sometimes is to ask someone where you want to be.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, self awareness requires a special kind of attention. It's not that we notice what we're thinking and feeling, but we have a platform from which we can kind of be meta and see it come and go. And one of the effective tools was actually developed at Yale. They have a center for emotional intelligence where you practice naming what you're feeling. It turns out most people are pretty poor at that. We have kind of gross names, I guess I'm getting angry now, but we don't have a kind of refined vocabulary. But it turns out, because of the way the brain functions, that if you can name what you're feeling, then the cortex, a different part of the brain, activates and the part that's getting you so upset right now is less active. So that's one way.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because all the others depend on that. If you don't have self-awareness, you can't manage your emotions well. They just come to you. You don't see them coming. You don't even realize you're in the grip of anger, whatever it is. Empathy, same thing. If you are tuned out of a range of your own emotion, you're not going to pick it up in other people. And the relationship skills depend on all three. They build on the other three with emotional intelligence as the foundation. We have research, for example, that shows of 12 competencies that are based on emotional intelligence, which you see in outstanding performers, outstanding leaders. If you are poor in self-awareness, you'll be poor in, let's say, 10 of those 12. You might be good in one or two. But if you're strong in self-awareness, you're likely to be good at many, many others.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He called it empathy. And that is another point, which is that the culture of organizations and businesses varies tremendously. And the emotional intelligence is pretty much embedded in the DNA of many organizations, but by different names. You know, you may call empathy leadership presence, not empathy, but it's basically the same skill.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The head of that organization and the training people understand the value of emotional intelligence. I mentioned progressive, where the head of the customer relations unit espoused the importance of emotional intelligence. It's very important, I think, that someone from the business side champions this and that HR or the training and development people offer an opportunity to strengthen it. That's a winning combination, I think.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, a friend of mine was a research head at hunting firm, and they were interested in why people who looked really strong as candidates who they recommended got fired. And they did a study around the world, and they found, well, their business expertise, all of that, analytic skills very high, but they were invariably fired for a lapse in emotional intelligence. And this just tells you that you need both. It's not that it's one or the other. It's both and. And I think that many companies or too many companies and organizations don't understand this. In the book, we look at some outstanding examples of companies where this really matters. For example, MD Anderson, which is the world's number one place for cancer treatment.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Threshold competence, but it means everyone else is about as smart as you are. And for example, there's a study of engineers where they're asked, rate other engineers on how effective they are as engineers. You do it anonymously. And it turned out that those ratings had zero correlation with IQ and very high correlation with emotional intelligence. How do you manage yourself? How do you handle your relationships? That's what makes you good in this. And I think that's what makes you a leader in an organization, at least an effective leader. I think it's what makes you an effective team member or head of a team. So emotional intelligence matters more over the course of your career and over the course of your life than it does during your school years when you're being graded on IQ.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“100% correct when I wrote the book in'95 Emotional Intelligence, it made intuitive sense, but we had no data. I was only in 1990 that the first journal article called Emotional Intelligence appeared. It was written by a friend of mine, Peter Salave, who's now the president of Yale. He was a junior professor then, and he wrote it with a graduate student. And it was highly speculative too, because they had no measure yet of emotional intelligence. You know, IQ has been around for more than a century. There's tons of data showing that IQ is a terrific predictor of how well you'll do in school. Turns out to be a pretty poor predictor of how you'll do in life over the course of your career. That's where emotional intelligence kicks in. Consider this. For a lot of professions, you need to get an MBA or an advanced, say, engineering. You need an advanced degree. That's the threshold ability.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You can surface and help both sides come to some agreement. And also, it's being a great team player. Very important. Teams exhibit emotional intelligence at the group level. It looks a little different, but it means that they have all of the key attributes of emotional intelligence, and you can pick it up in how people on the team relate to each other.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People's attention more is what's technically called empathic concern. It's not just that I know how you think and I know how you feel. That's great for marketing, say. I also care about you. That is the mark of a great leader. Someone, if you feel that your boss cares about you, has your back, wants what's best for you, is going to coach you or mentor you to develop further strengths. You have intense loyalty. It really makes you feel good about the situation you're in. And the fourth domain of emotional intelligence is what you might call social skill. We think of it as relationship management. It means, for example, being able to inspire people, being able to coach them, being able to mentor, being able to persuade or guide someone else, being able to sense when there is a disturbance in the room, there's an upset that you can simmering.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Each instantiated in different circuitry in the brain. The first is cognitive empathy. I know how you think. I know the terms you use. I know how you see the world. And because I know the terms you use to explain reality or a situation to yourself, I can talk to you effectively because I can use those terms. I know you'll understand. The second is emotional empathy. This is based on what in social neuroscience we call the emotional brain and the fact that brains are designed to link to the brain of the person we're with and create a silent automatic, instantaneous, unconscious bridge, which tells you what the other person is intending and what they're feeling. So you know what the person feels because you sense it too. And then the third kind of empathy, which is little discussed by think should be brought to be”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The first domain is emotional self awareness, knowing what you're feeling, why you're feeling it, how it shapes your perception, your thinking, your impulse to act. Second domain is self-management. That means getting your disruptive, distracting states under control. That's anger and anxiety, for example. And at the same time, marshalling the positive, which is keeping your eye on the long-term goal despite daily distractions, being nimble, agile, and adjusting to changing circumstances, staying positive. The mindset is very important. Seeing yourself as able to improve and other people is able to improve, not just dismissing yourself or others as you are today, but realizing, you know, I could get better. The third domain is empathy. And here it's important to realize there are three different kinds of empathy.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Do something that helps them not get into frazzle? Or do they just have a constitution? Maybe these are unique individuals genetically. We don't know that.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Every day you get stressed out and you don't schedule in recovery. You just keep going and keep going and keep going. Some people may be able to do that for a period. I don't know that anybody can do it all their life. Because as I said, the stress hormones are going to eat away at your health and create kind of fuzzy decision-making, actually. I think it's counterproductive. Getting in that state all the time and never allowing yourself to recover means you become emotionally exhausted and burn out. And how do you pursue excellence and not burn out? You know, the interesting question, for example, with these exemplars of driving themselves is, well, what do they actually do when a day or in a week? Do they have some time to recover? Do they”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, to put the question another way, can you be outstanding and not kill yourself, not drive yourself to desperation? You know, there was an article in the Excellent Journal of Science called The Neurobiology of Frazle. And what he's talking about is what you sounds like you did writing this book, which is...”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What it means is that you're effective every day. You're productive every day. And just as with an investment, you want it to be effective and productive over time in a sustainable way. You don't want to have big peaks that then have big drops. And so I think that the wisdom about what makes people effective also applies to the market, what makes stockpick effective.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, William, that's just another way of articulating the main point of the book Optimal, which is it's good enough to sustain excellence every day, not to kill yourself or kill the people who are working for you by pushing them and stressing them or stressing yourself or criticizing yourself. And the good enough concept is pretty powerful. One reason it matters is that children and teenagers need to learn to individuate, which means take risks in their personal life as they grow, try something new. And if you're the helicopter parent, you don't let them. You want them to do the thing that, you know, the piano lessons, whatever lessons after school until they go to bed or they do their homework for hours. But children and teens need to be able to explore too, not just to do that routine that helicopter parent wants them to do.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So Cicero, when he says you should relax, is talking about letting this other part of the brain take over. And the research on creativity is very clear that it's in this other state, this relaxed state, where you're much more likely to have the creative insight. You know, during the shower or while walking the dog or whatever it may be.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The research and creativity says Cicero was right in this respect. If you ask successful entrepreneurs, and I've seen data on this, how do you make decisions? They say that they gather information widely, actually more widely than other people would. Other people might not bother with things that don't seem relevant. You never know. So the first stage of creativity research shows is to get all the best information you can get. The next stage is counterintuitive. It's let go. It's relaxed. Go for a walk because that lets another part of your brain engage, which actually has wider connectivity. And then you're more likely to come up with two elements that are useful, that are applicable, that have never been put together before. That's the creative insight. And then you go back to that first mode to execute on it.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So Mark is an interesting case because I think he has both strengths. I think he drives himself, but he takes time to relax. He meditates every morning. And that's an important part. His spiritual life is important to him too. And I see that in data, in terms of whether someone who's in a leadership position can articulate a higher purpose or mission that resonates that they believe in that moves them and articulate in a way that resonates with other people. That is inspiring. And we have data that shows it creates the most positive emotional climate. And that's how you get the best out of people.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It in a way where you stress people out? Did you do it in a way where your most talented people are going to want to leave because they hate you? That's an important question.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Aimed at investors that said, you know, it's not enough just to look at the numbers, which is very standard in investing. Look at the people too. Because if you want long-term success, you're going to want to have effective leadership and you want to have effective people at every level. It's human capital too. That's what the article said. You can't, in this day and age, everyone's looking at the numbers. look more deeply, look in the organization and see what kind of leadership they have. Are they going to be there for the long run? It's kind of the tortoise and the hare. Can they have a spectacular quarter or quarters? Do they do it by burning people out in an emotionally intelligent organizations when you have a performance review? They ask not only did you get your numbers, how did you get your numbers? Did you do”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With business success. I'm thinking of progressive, used to be progressive insurance, not just progressive. And they're famous for this series of commercials that's been running for more than two decades with this woman, I forget her name, who represents progressive. But during that time, the person who was in charge of customer relations, the people that actually sell insurance, was a huge advocate of emotional intelligence. He said, look, this is a relationship business. We have to manage our relationships well. And I think that takes emotional intelligence. So we offered training to his people. And what's important is he was someone from the business side saying this matters here. And I think that's crucial too. If it's only from HR, forget it. And by the way, this matters to investors. I'll tell you why. It was just an article in one of the recent Harvard Business Reviews.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Perhaps so. I mean, many people who have a business bestseller, and I had a series of those, then start a company or try to market something based on that. I never did that. And I always thought it was more interesting and more satisfying to have time for retreats, have time for my family than to go off and kill myself trying to get a business going. Yeah, I might be an unusual case. On the other hand, I've studied companies, organizations that are highly successful. This is different than highly successful investors. This has to do with whether the leader is emotionally intelligent, whether they can pervade the organization at different levels with people being also emotionally intelligent. And it turns out that correlates.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, it raises the question of what's true wealth. Is it just how much money you make or what kind of life you live? Or both? And can you make a ton of money and have a rich life? Or is it one or the other or is it, you know, I personally would rather have a satisfying life and satisfying accomplishments than be the tip top of the game?”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So you interviewed people who were enormously successful as investors. Are they uptight about it? Are they driving themselves? Are they more relaxed? Let me ask it a different way. Is this very ingredient? In success in that domain”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, let me ask you a question, William. You have interviewed in your wonderful book, Richer, Happier, Wiser, I think it's called.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Vascular health, and they may help you get the job done in the short term, but they're not sustainable in the long term. So I really advocate a sustainable best, that optimal state, rather than pushing yourself to be better than I ever could be.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And it's the beating yourself up. For example, if someone is sleeping four hours a night and working all the rest of the time, what's happening in their personal life? You know, do they have a series of marriages that end in disaster? Do they see their kids? Do they see the people they love? Do they have time or schedule time to do the things they love to do? That's an important question because it has to do with how the body is wired. Our body is meant to arouse itself, the experience is maybe getting upset or getting maybe angry or dissatisfied or anxious, and then recover from that because it takes a toll, it takes a toll on your health directly when you're upset. It means that you're secreting adrenaline, cortisol, stress hormones. And they eat away at your immune system. They have very bad effects on your cardiovascular virus.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think the key here is sustainability. If you're constantly self-critical, if you only look at how you screwed up what you did wrong and how to do right, that's actually a diagnostic for being a perfectionist. And perfectionism is great on the one hand and terribly self-destructive on the other. The way it's great is you're always pushing yourself to do better. The way it's not great is you're always pushing yourself to do better. And what I mean by that is you see, you focus on what you did wrong, not what you're doing right and sustainability means you do what you're doing right all the time and relax about it instead of getting anxious or uptight or self-critical about what you could do better. It's not that you don't continually approve, but you don't beat yourself up.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Into kind of self critical state around the fact that they're not in flow, which I think is destructive. You don't find it in the optimal state. There's no critical self-talk. You lose yourself in what you're doing. You're fully focused, which is also a characteristic of flow. But in the original research on flow, which was done at the University of Chicago, they saw that focus and concentration as an epiphenomena, a side effect of flow. We see it, and when I say we, I'm talking about myself and my co-author, Carrie Chernis, at Rutgers, we see it as a doorway into the optimal state, focusing, we can all focus better. We can learn to focus better. And I think that's a key part of learning to be at your best.”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let me start by describing attributes of the optimal state and then contrast it with the flow. You know, when you're in your optimal state, you're most highly productive in doing whatever it is you do. And, you know, for an executive, it's one thing. For a single parent of four, it's folding laundry. It doesn't matter what it is. It's the internal state. You feel really good that day while you're doing it. You're satisfied with what you did. You're effective. You make good decisions. You're creative. You have a lot of small wins towards some larger goal. These are all attributes of the optimal state. I contrast it with the flow state because flow is that one time you were fantastic. You outdid yourself, but you can't make it happen. It's not something that you can put together ingredients and be sure it will happen. And also people get...”
2024-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · RWH039: Optimal Performance w/ Daniel Goleman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT