YouSaid · the spoken record

David Kaye

lines on the record: 113
first: 2020-02-14
most recent: 2020-02-14
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, so at the UN, if you go to my website, the law school maintains it's freedx.org, so F-R-E-D-E-X.org. You can find all of our reports. Reports.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As a vector for disinformation is heroing, really. And the fact that, I mean, I get, I'm fully on board with the Zuckerberg line that we can't be the arbiter of truth. But that doesn't mean that they can be the facilitator of untruths. They have to figure out that boundary. That's fine.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, especially on the paid side. I mean, I really think that the idea that, you know, in this McKay Coppins story in The Atlantic really underlines this. I think people who haven't been following this like you and I've been following it for many years are going to be, they should all read this story because the use of the platform and the platforms and mass media, which buys into it all too often.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it's a question of responsibility. It's like, look, there was just a story about the Vaxers that this woman gave her kid potatoes. A kid died or whatever. It was on an anti-vaxx group on Facebook, and Facebook's been trying to get rid of them, but they just have to get rid of them. They can't try to get rid of them. They have to get rid of these groups, which are spreading false information. And to hide behind freedom of speech in this case is irresponsible.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. So think about if you were in Los Angeles and there was only the New York Times. Great newspaper, right? Like fabulous newspaper, but I still want a local paper to be, you know, conveying to me what's happening in my city. And I think Facebook has that same problem. They're everywhere. But like, what's the local connection? What's the ability of local actors to actually get local information that is evaluated according to, you know, can be human rights standards, but with like a local flavor to it? That doesn't really exist right now.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the executive director was the director of Article 19, which is, it's like the Human Rights Watch of Freedom of Expression around the world, a very important organization. So his bona fides on freedom of expression are really, I mean, unassailable. You know, the problem is the harms on the platform are not just speech harms. You know, the harassment, the tracking, the privacy issues. So there's a lot going on there. But I think that was a good step. I think that what everybody should be looking at is who actually serves on this board. Presumably there'll be a chair or two. My hope is that they're not American, that they come from, you know, we call the Global South, that there's diversity within the board, that it's, you know, so somebody from Myanmar or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. Absolutely can have the same kind of input. And I also think that there needs to be much more ownership of decision making at the local level. I mean, I think of it this way. I think of like a...”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm guessing they won't. Well, I mean, I have talked to them so that, you know, they've hired an executive director. Yes.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“At UC Irvine So, we're going to be, we'll be kind of doing the oversight of the oversight. around the world will be doing something like that well that seems great i think you'd be great running it actually if they're really serious they will get serious people”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, I think that'd be valuable. So, we started, we got a grant from the Knight Foundation at UC Irvine to actually do kind of an oversight study. So we're going to be, we'll be kind of doing the oversight of the oversight. I mean, we need to talk to them and make sure that we can do the kinds of things necessary. You know, like trial monitoring around the world, we'll be doing something like that.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's more of a personal thing. I just have other things I want to be doing right now. I mean, I'm interested in the cross-cutting tree approach.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I feel uncomfortable with being in government. So we need to figure out a way. They're all making decisions. They're all doing it all day. So would you serve on the Facebook council? Have you been asked?”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We could use something like that too. In my book, I kind of move in that direction because I think ultimately the big question around these issues is who's going to decide these questions of content. I'm uncomfortable with it being the companies. So we need to figure out a way. And they're doing it any”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, the company should be disclosing ⁇ privacy issues, so they can't disclose everything about every case, but they should be disclosing much more about the content decisions that they're making. Because right now we operate, it's almost like government. You know, when government has a secrecy claim, they say trust us, that's what the companies are saying too. And I think that's, we're like way past that. We can't trust the companies. We need to evaluate. We need oversight. Whether that's governmental or around in the Commonwealth part of the world, we have things called press councils, which are basically public-private oversight of journalism.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There needs to be a lot more disclosure about Facebook what they're collecting, how they make the decisions around content, who's making the decisions around content. I mean, the companies control so much public speech and they control the public square in so many places around the world. And yet people who are subject to that regulation know virtually nothing about how that's done. So I think there should be just much more disclosure about, I think of it like a case law.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ways of doing that. I mean, one could be direct government regulation. That concerns me a bit because government regulation of content historically is always bad. It always leads to bad places. But what I do think we could have regulation around, and it may be that what Facebook is doing might convince people this is important, is we can have regulation around transparency.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wrote that It's This is the problem. So, we're actually, I'm going to be monitoring that over the next year, but I my hope is that that is a kind of spur to cross industry regulation. And if that, I could imagine several different”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I should start with the good. It's like a rhetorical. You know, my hope is not. I wrote that. I paid them one compliment this year about that. It's not a bad idea, but it could become a Potemkin village. That's my feeling.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, I so there's some good things right now that are happening in social media space. I should start with the good. It's like a rhetorical. There's some good stuff happening. One of them is I think my hope is that the Facebook move to this content moderation board, which is not a bad idea.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, exactly Completely. I mean, I had a pretty negative reaction to his speech. This was the one at Georgetown. When he was conflating”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For that monitoring these companies that are being hired by lots of different people. Yeah, exactly. Then I'd be remiss. I want to finish up the other day, recently Mark Zuckerberg, I was at his speech, The Paid versus Free Speech Speech at Georgetown, and then he did this. I'm all about free expression. How do you react to that, him wrapping himself in a cloak of free expression? You're someone who, this is an important issue. I think you're committed to this idea.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then at the same time, they can get controlled more. It's not all a negative story. And then the last report will be on academic freedom. So kind of the interaction between or the intersection of the digital and academic, we're actually still scoping out, because academic freedom can mean a lot. It can mean campus speech and protest. It can mean the way in which, for example, if you're teaching, if you're a scholar of something in China or Turkey right now, you could lose your job just because of the nature of the thing that you're studying. So, you know, we're trying to figure out what exactly is the core issue for freedom of expression and academic freedom right now. But those are the two thematic areas. And then we're doing continuing to do work on the private surveillance industry. I mean, my big push there is we need law.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, I am actually coming to the end of my, we call it a mandate. So I'll be done in July. I'm doing a report that looks at like a global look at trends. So the kinds of things we've been talking about. And I'm doing two specific reports, one on artistic freedom of expression. So basically how the digital age has interfered with, but also advanced artistic freedom.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“True, they think it's free. I'm not saying they feel like it's free every time I use this. But in my day-to-day life, I don't rethink. I mean, I'm pretty safe on my phone, but I still have to use things. Like if I have to go somewhere, I don't think about it as a cost, but it's always a cost and people need to understand that.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It really does. I'm trying to figure out how to get people aware of it. I keep calling them cheap dates. That seems to get to them. I'm like, you took a map and a, you know, an ability to look up when someone died and, you know, some free email and they get billions and you're not a billionaire like they are. Like you're a cheap date. You're essentially. And they seem to, people seem to be like, oh, maybe I am. True.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Privacy is essential to a democratic society as it should be in the United States, as Europe has been recognizing for several years. And we need to constrain the companies in their collection, and we need to constrain our government in its use of that data. We don't have anything like that. So we really do need a massive movement on that. I mean, we're so We're just in this moment where everything seems grim from climate change to the Trump administration to social media, everything. But this has to be a central piece.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can track your face everywhere. Well, facial recognition, I think, will really freak people out. And that is an important part of it. I mean, we get the data showing the hundreds, if not thousands, of pictures that are taken of us every day. That should be really concerning to people. But that also highlights how massive of a problem this is. This isn't just a problem of our devices. It's a problem of public space and public channels and public cameras and we have no regulatory, there's no overarching approach that says”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, well, that's the excuse of I've got nothing to hide. Yeah, exactly. We did an interesting thing at the New York Times. This guy's like, I'm going to hide, and then we tracked his face everywhere. And he's like, what? He's like, oh.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, part of the problem with giving a generic answer is, you know, different people have different like threat perceptions and actual threats against them. Some people, they're happy to share everything. And that's, for them, that's fine. I mean, they should recognize the risks. There needs to be much more education about the risks of sharing and the risk.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it hurts innovation So, what do we need? Talk about, let's finish up talking about what we, what are they, and what are the low hanging fruit people can do to protect themselves. Because it really is protect yourself kind of situation. Like you're not, you're on your own in a lot of ways.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, right, right, exactly. So I think, I mean, we need law, we need regulation, we need a change in the way we think in the United States about the power of regulation. You know, ever since the 80s, we've had this, you know, anything the government does to regulate is evil. And it hurts innovation. And it hurts innovation and all that. But I don't think we're in that space anymore.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We have no, I mean, there was a slight move after the Snowden revelations to deal with some of the worst abuses. But you're right, there is no regulation. And it's a particularly American problem. You know, we think that the companies will self-regulate, and that's the way the market will fix this. But we're not in an environment of a competitive market. So there's no competition to Google. I mean, as much as we like, like I use duck duckgo every so often because it doesn't collect information on my searches. But everybody's using Google.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, the tool is law. It's law and regulation. And we have very little of it. I mean, we have none.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, absolutely. But from criminals Absolutely. You know, certain people like Ash Carter and others did believe in it because he understands the importance of that. What's interesting to me is, so who protects us? Are these companies? Because we're being protected by companies, which I think, you know, I had an argument with one of the founders of Google about that, and I was very tough on them about having control of all search. And I said, this is an enormous amount of data you have on people, you understand. And you're responsible for that in the hands of the wrong people. I forget which one it was. He goes, I'm a nice person. And I said, yeah, but what happens when not such a nice person gets their hands on this? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's not going to happen. I'm like, are you kidding me? I said, you understand the history of the world. Not nice people get their hands on stuff like this all the time. And so what do we do in this situation? Because the government's interests are in collecting more information. The company's interests are in collecting more information. And MBS, whatever the hell he's up to out in Saudi Arabia, he definitely wants to collect and then suppress.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I think that's right. And I think governments all, I mean, or we should say maybe like politicians who come in with this rosy view, like we're going to protect this and that. And then they get into, I mean, it's a Washington problem too. It's like you get into this security environment and you're convinced about the darkness of the world, but it's a narrow way of thinking about security. Absolutely. Because all of our security is at risk. And not just at risk from, you know, the prying eyes of our neighbors, but from criminals. I mean, it's a real, an insecure internet is terrible for everybody. Absolutely.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is really fight Right, they were. You know, fighting on his very basic tool. I mean, well, he was pro-encryption until he was anti encryption. That's what my argument with him was, you know, and he was. I get that you see certain things and you see the world and it's an ugly place when you get much more information, but it wasn't an excuse. I was like, you change. So just say you changed and explain to me why that was.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Completely. Because they do everything out in the open. All their corruption is You don't even have to dig. She's like, I True Governments, they don't. I agree. Well, and I mean, you're exactly right. I mean, the last, I mean, the Obama administration is really fighting on encryption. Right, they were. You know, fighting on this very basic tool.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I GD If they're enemies? None of them would. Let me just say they would be more apparent about. They'd be more explicit about it. Completely. Because they do everything out in the open. All their corruption is. I was talking to an investigative reporter yesterday, Carol Leenig, who wrote Lenig, who wrote the book on Trump. And I said, what's it like to be an investigative reporter when they do their crimes out in the open? You don't even have to dig. She's like, I know, it's weird. It's just right there, the pile of crap is just right there, essentially. But no, no, no governments. I think every government constantly overreaches all the time. And if they can get access to information, there's no government that doesn't do this. That's true. There just isn't. I'd like to pretend romanticize our previous governments. They don't. I agree. They prevail.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so that's a big threat. I mean, it's a threat enough that the companies have that access to us, which in the United States, we haven't regulated at all. I mean, I actually do think Europe will regulate, and that's going to affect us. I mean, GDPR is already having that effect. The general data protection regulation in the European Union. But generally speaking, we're living in a surveillance society. We're all surveilled, and I don't think we have any, particularly when you think about this government today, the Trump administration, would they resist using these tools in order to get at their enemies? None of them would.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So that's a good thing, but generally speaking, we're talking about, or at least we've been talking about surveillance at this targeted level. But at the end of the day, the companies are all collecting huge amounts of information about us. And are we really certain that governments aren't going to get access to that information? I'm certain.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Maybe a centerpiece of their business model. That's really good. And it's not just privacy for privacy's sake. It's privacy for all of our communications, for journalists, for activists, and just for you and I or me to contact my spouse or you, yours. And that part is really.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, as compared to HTTP, it's just a protocol that is secure. It's an encrypted connection with your website. I mean, the metadata is visible. In other words, the fact that I'm going to the New York Times website is known, but what I'm actually looking at at the time site is not. So, I mean, there are some good things. I don't want to paint a totally grim picture. I mean, some of the companies, particularly on the device side, I think have moved to a kind of a privacy.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ess Yeah, it's true. I mean, luckily, I mean, after the Snowden revelations, really, there was a sense of common cause among many of the companies. And, you know, in the few years after 2013, kind of the mass move to HTTPS websites was also amazing. I mean, there are a lot of good things.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Talk about Apple and what's happened recently around encryption since encryption was an area that is important. Apple just resisted a government inquiry into opening up an iPhone. It's around encryption. And at the same time, it gave a lot of information up from iCloud, the stuff that was demanded by Warrant, which it does, which it always does. You're right. It's sort of a mixed bag with Apple because they are defending encryption and did previously with the Obama administration at the same time, these companies can't resist for too long, essentially, if they want other things. There's a lot of pressure to bear on them.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't know. I just don't know. Yeah, no, I totally understand that. But so there are other things. So I actually think there should be a kind of movement. People have been talking about this for years, but there should be a movement of, you know, encryption and the use of encrypted technologies generally. I think some of the companies, I mean, Apple has moved into this space in a pretty productive way, at least.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It becomes a kind of a crutch. I'm not alleging that Facebook is flying on you. I just, I don't know. I just don't even want to guess. I don't even want to take the risk. Yeah, no, I totally understand that.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“People don't do them enough. I just don't care. So the thing for WhatsApp is pretty much everybody I work with outside the United States uses it. So it becomes a kind of a crutch. I'm not a little bit.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure, she It isn't. I use him, but yes, but they're not. People don't do them at all. People don't do them enough. And then they use WhatsApp, which I see using it. I don't use it. It's from Facebook. I'm sorry. I just don't think I know it's encrypted. I just don't, I don't care.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And they can track me You do. And I mean, the problem of this for me is that the system, this world and protection relies on our own individual initiative, which is hard because, you know, these phones, tablets, computers, there's so much convenience and also Julianne Gwynne wrote this book, Dragnet Nation a few years ago. Sure she did. You know, she tried to go off the grid. It's almost impossible. And so I think there are some things we can do. I mean, journalists, all journalists should know how to use things like signal, which is very secure messaging. They should know how to use things like Tor in order to do anonymized searches, secure drop. I mean, there's a range of things that people need to do in the profession in order to protect their sources. I don't think that's, well, you would know better than I do, but my impression is that that isn't widely.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're That you're connected with. Yeah, I was thinking about this when I turned off all my mapping. I've turned it off all the time and I only allow it to go on for a second or something like that. Although me searching tells them where I am, but it doesn't quite tell them where I actually am. But then I was like, my girlfriend's is still on. So I'm usually with her. So I was like, turn yours off. She's like, I don't want to. I'm like, no, you have to because then they can track me. And so you become this sort of strange, like, paranoid person about you. You do.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, but also just who you're texting with and what you're saying to, so your device might be secure, but you don't know about the people that you're connected with.”
2020-02-14 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: David Kaye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source