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Derren Brown

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2023-01-12
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2023-01-12
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  1. I think it was that the psychic that I was challenging had mentioned. that she drove a little red mini and she'd been really impressed by that but actually I've seen him pull up his car right parked next to her in the car park yeah but actually I think it's the opposite I think the there's a long tradition of magicians pulling apart psychics and charlatans and I think it's because we end up with a knowledge of how those things work and it goes right back to Houdini and the seances and exposing the fraudulent mediums in the dark you know it's a long and probably before that but there's a long history of it so I the only thing about it is that you're if you're just going no this is fake you're not being very entertaining and by the nature of what those people do it's more entertaining so they've kind of won the game so I've tried to avoid

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. Unsound Place to be, and this is, you know, Pet and Teller. So something that Teller, who apart from being a beautiful magician, is a wonderful thinker. As well, he spoke a lot about this that it's actually a very bad drama if you can make anything happen. What we want dramatically are heroes, people that are struggling with the situation. Maybe they are trying to get to point A, but actually they end up at point B. And his thoughts and my own sort of dissatisfaction, I guess, with that first stage of my career led to this shift where I could be in the background pulling the strings, but actually you're watching a real member of the public go through quite an intense drama, and that has to be more appealing than somebody going, hey, look at me, aren't I clever, which is sort of the bottom line of what most magic is. So I think that was a kind of semi deliberate.

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  3. I kind of felt like I'd grown out of it, but that was sort of the mode that I was caught in, and I definitely felt like I'm not really enjoying this, and that led to a shift in the type of shows I was doing. The last show I've done is on Netflix called Sacrifice, if people have no idea who I am and they've listened this far. And generally what I've been doing for the last decade or so with the TV shows is putting people through these kind of Truman show style big social experiments, often quite life or death situations they found themselves in without realizing they're part of a show. And what that allowed me to do was not be the center of attention. And the reason for it is actually apart from just my own dissatisfaction with it. But just magically, if you can click your fingers and make anything happen, which is sort of what a magician does, dramatically that's a very

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  4. Am I doing here? Yeah, I think we drift towards the things we're second best at. It's like, you know, the great teacher that becomes a headmaster, but would have been a better teacher than that's an easy thing to do, isn't it? And I think that sometimes I think about, or it might be quite nice to act. I think I'm doing exactly that thing of sort of going from being someone who's really good at what I do now, and I just sort of, why would I want to, it might be fun, but what a strange thing we naturally start to drift towards things that... We're not as good at. I would say when you said that I was thinking of the early TV shows which were very much a response to David Blaine's success in the States I'm outdoing mind reading tricks and things and

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  5. What I want you to do and kind of create this sort of world for myself. That was kind of lovely. And it's hard to do that as you grow up and you do have responsibilities and, you know, you're contributing to a household and your department, you've got dogs and all of that. It's not quite as easy. So a childish part of me would kind of quite like the idea of going back to that, but not really. Not really, I wouldn't really press a button to make it happen. It's just a nice little sort of back of the head dream, as we probably all know. Have, maybe, don't we? Slight kind of fantasy thing if we'd never really live it out, but it's just something nice about.

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  6. I think about this I think it's about the same but it's different. I mean a bit like being a kid and playing on my own most of my twenties were my 20s were sort of fairly solitary as well. That's another template that settles in. So that's again an easy place to go back to. I love my own company. All my interest, the things I love. Out of my job painting, writing and reading, and they're all like solitary things. That's a comfortable place for me. So pardon me. I'd more of that then's as slightly misses that, but actually that's also aware that was lonely sometimes and I like being in a relationship too so it's different, had a different feel about it. I think the freedom to just

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  7. You can feel like a kid a little bit, a bit like a child in a world of grown-ups. So I feel that sometimes, except now the grown ups are younger than me, which is strange. But also I think maybe that's a good way to feel. Maybe that's a nice way to be

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  8. And if anything didn't feel right it'd be easy to sort of change, and that was all I was never about looking forward into the future. It was never about where do I want to be. It was just, is this day, this week, sort of the life that I'd like to be living? And that's never changed. I suppose the difference is you get... Successfully you sought to have people around you that are doing those other jobs for you, the grown up jobs, and I've got a manager and I've worked with producers and all that kind of thing. So it's not like that doesn't have to happen somewhere along the line, but it doesn't come from me.

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  9. Exciting as in welfare, I guess you'd call it. Yeah, I was. I lived in my student flat I stayed and it was quite a nice flat I had on my books in it, my parrot, and that didn't cost me very much and I just loved this life I would go out dreaming up magic tricks during the day and then I would go out and do them in the evening so I developed my own sort of approach to it all and Yeah, I just remember thinking I've never had any ambition at all and I just remember thinking if I can take us like a cross section of my life is everything in the right place like at my I'd like to get up whenever I'd like to get up. I'd like to feel I can make my own decisions about what I do from day to day and I just had a vague idea of those sorts of things that were important to me and

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  10. I think so, let me think. So I graduated ninety four, and then by that point I was doing the odd hypnosis show for students I Oh, actually, the first TV show went out in december two thousand. So I was into all. It was about ten years, but that also included my university career. But there was a six year period after university, by which point I was already doing it mainly for students, when I was just then signing on or just about scraping a living, doing hypnosis shows, but a lot more magic. I was doing magic in restaurants in Bristol and then people would book me for their parties and I wrote a book for magicians which kind of got me known within that world, which that then led to being picked out for a TV show that led to me getting a phone call, my name getting passed around in that world.

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  11. Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what she said. She said, oh, that sounds great. Sounds much more fun. Nice, isn't it? I wrote them a letter at the end of my first year saying I saw all these other Law students really fretting about their exams because of what their parents were going to think if they didn't pass. And that had never occurred to me as a thing that your parents would make you feel. So I wrote them a letter thanking them for. For that just for Letting me always do what Wanted to do. The only thing they ever put any pressure on me to do was learn how to drive, and I don't drive.

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  12. Yeah, I remember saying to my mum, I think, I'm not going to be a lawyer. I was studying law in German. I said, I'm not going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a magician. I said, oh, fine, that sounds great. Sounds much more fun. Which actually made me stop and think, okay, hang on, probably being a bit rash.

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  13. You need to learn it the long way round, so that if you run into problems or if someone's having a weird time when you're hypnotizing them, you can't be like fumbling around trying to Google what to do. You need to have the skills there and the wherewithal to deal with it. So I definitely learned the long way around. Yeah.

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  14. Yeah, well, I think it was the, again, those boxes were being ticked, something about performing, something about control. I didn't really know it, it just felt like I want I have to do that. It's the most amazing thing I've seen. And it was. It was appealing in ways that just weren't really as I hadn't really thought about, I hadn't thought about performing, Yeah, I think that's what's happening, isn't it? It's resonating unconsciously. It's something that you kind of need and yet it was absolutely no, there was no doubt, so I bought, borrowed, stole any books I could find on the subject. You probably just learn on YouTube nowadays But it's probably a dodgy thing because you need to

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  15. That was amazing and I left and walked back that night with a friend and said I'm going to learn how to do this and my friend Nick said oh yes so am I but I knew I meant it I knew that I'd never seen it before never come across hypnosis I obviously had heard of it but and it was a good show like it wasn't you know embarrassing people are making them look stupid it was sort of just jaw dropping

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  16. Look or act in a certain way that denotes moving forward and progress. We do that for the first half of life and it is sustained a little by this optimistic illusion that the castles that we're chasing in the air that will reach if we just a lot of happiness deferring going on and a lot of focusing on the future and then something happens around midlife where actually the project shifts to Taking the cues from within rather than from the outside world. And I think then that's a good time for priorities to shift from what Give me success in the future to what is actually what might bring pleasure and satisfaction and meaning now in the present. I think that's a useful thing to lean into towards the second half of life.

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  17. And in our Societal lives as well as the stuff that we've buried, and I think as you get older, this is where those feeling signals come in, I think it becomes more and more important to pay attention to the things that we are banishing from our stories. If we think about what makes us feel resentful or what we envy, or what are those things? Because those are the things that we're bearing somehow. There's a shift in the second half of life and a chunk older than you, but where. We can disengage a bit with the The story that we've been telling of how to move forward in life, that's all about a dialogue with the... External world. That's where we're getting our cues from, people showing us what we need to be successful, what we need to.

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  18. campfire and a clearing, and its cozy but then there's all the forest in the darkness with all the stuff that you're excluding from that story and that's where the monsters live and the nature of monsters that they come and bite you and all the stuff that we don't include in a story whether it's the story we tell about ourselves about ourselves or whether it's a story we tell ourselves about our nation or our culture whether it's a social thing or whether it's a private thing the stuff that we bury and the stuff that we don't include within the narrative because the narrative is really too simple It goes deep, like it sort of gets buried. It gets buried in our own unconscious or it gets buried in the untold story of whatever the thing is. And that's what comes back and bites us. That's the stuff that comes to own us in our own lives.

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  19. Stories. If a magician fools you with a trick in a way that works, what you're being shown is that your story that you were forming of the world isn't quite right. Like there's something you missed and you always feel like you've properly paid attention, you saw everything, you were taking in all the information. But it shows you that you've missed something, that your narrative of what reality is isn't the same as the world. And I So Story side of things seems to be part of just our makeup, but it's important not to. Fall in love with it too much and to realise that the nature of a story is that there's stuff you're excluding. There's an image, isn't there, of telling a story over a

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  20. I think those things are very important to listen to. I think we do live out stories very easily. We do tend to See things in terms of a narrative, and that's an interestingly double edged thing because on the one hand Whether someone's written in or out of a story has become very important. Language and harm and all of those things have all got suddenly very tied up and the very notion of story has become So important taking authorship of your story and so on. But the other side to that, which I live out in my job as a magician, is that stories are just

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  21. somehow. The demon, but you know, without anxiety, how do you know to change anything in your life? How do you know to change a job unless the current job is making you feel bad or things have to... Become anxious and things have to fall away in order for us to move forward and grow, and you can't do that without.

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  22. Is playing better than you, you're probably going to get anxious and you're going to feel that you're failing, whereas if you go in determined to play as well as you can, again, just to control the part you're in charge of, then it sort of doesn't matter for your opponents. A bit better than you or they start to win. You're not failing. And the same goes for the Stoics were big movers and shakers. If you want to change the world, you can, but you're only going to emotionally commit yourself to your intention and your actions, not the outcomes, which may happen a generation after you've died. That's something out of your hands. I think all that's very helpful and very useful. The only thing, if you see it as a toolkit to be lent into when it's helpful, but even that, if you take it as a sort of almost like a spiritual way of life, can fall into the problem of, and therefore we shouldn't have any anxiety, therefore anxiety.

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  23. That the things in life, it's not the things in life, the causal problems, it's the story that you tell yourself about them. It's the judgments that you make about them, which is a very good and sensible idea that's made its way down to us over the last couple of thousand years. And then allied to that, you take all this stuff that you have no control over, outcomes, what other people do and what they think, and so on. And you can just decide that that stuff is fine as it is, and you can just focus on the stuff, only try and change the stuff you can actually change, which is the world of your own thoughts and your own actions. And that's where we should put our attention. And then there's interesting, there is a middle ground of, you know, like if you're, well, success of any sort. There's parts of that you're in control of and parts that you're not. So it's like a best analogy I've read for it is like going into a game of tennis. If you go in determined to win and then your opponent

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  24. We used to call people, um, Unfortunate, now we call them losers, you know, so there's a lack of respect now for just the fact that life is throwing stuff back at you. So how do you navigate that? And I think actually stoicism is a very good toolkit, and Stoicism, as I'm sure, pretty much all of your listeners will be familiar with, but the bottom line of it is

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  25. If you imagine the line that we lead in our lives, it's sort of an x equals y line, right? It's sort of an undulating line. So sometimes our plans are winning and we're doing great and sometimes life's throwing stuff back at us if we have no control over and things are gone horrible and someone's got ill or whatever it is. So there's this sort of undulating x equals y diagonal where we're being pulled in these two different directions. That's what we live. That's just sort of reality. The nature of the kind of the American optimistic model is that by believing in ourselves, we can, and this is not, it's an old hangover from Protestantism, the sort of work ethic, that you can, by believing in yourself, you can crank that line up so it's in line with your aims and your goals. And we've completely obliterated the idea of just fortune and life from that.

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  26. Yeah, it must be your fault, as opposed to it was just a bad idea to begin with. And more helpfully, how do we live comfortably with a universe that doesn't give a fuck what our plans are? Why would it? It doesn't make any sense. So how do we navigate? And there is an ancient sort of Image, it's appeared in so many different forms of an x equals y diagonal. So if you imagine a graph and you've got along one axis, you've got the x axis is the stuff you want to achieve in life, your aims and your plans, and then the other axis, the y-axis, is just life, what they used to call fortune. It's all the stuff that just gets thrown at you. And

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  27. Provide you with it's always jewellery and money and cars then you didn't have enough faith. It wasn't, you know, it was your own fault So it's a perfect cycle of blame which exonerates the The actual system completely inputs the blame entirely on you. So I...

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  28. But it's the same thing. It's the same thing. You have to completely commit yourself, and if it doesn't work out, if the universe doesn't

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  29. Project because you're going to end up blaming yourself for failing. You weren't a good enough stoic or you weren't a good enough optimist or whatever. Always reminded me of the faith healers that I spent a lot of time watching and when they do that thing of saying throw away pills and if your illness returns it's because you didn't have enough faith like it's your fault And that's no different from the secret, the law of attraction.

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  30. That is, the human experience, how do we deal with the difficulties of life? When things are going badly and we feel like we fail, that's what we all have to find our way through. So the things that feel most isolating are the things that tend to connect us. So I don't think it's about trying to bury them under sort of. Some sort of forced optimism, and it isn't about reaching a nirvana of A problem free life. I think that's a really sort of terrible.

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  31. Certain amount of is sort of personal development and integrating herself with the parts of us that we are uncomfortable with. So again, that's the project of relating to what's difficult within ourselves and then how we do that in life as well, how we relate to things that are difficult and tricky in life. Because the thing about it, although that experience can be very Isolating those feelings of, you know, when life Lets you down or you feel you fail, they tend to be quite isolating experiences. Like shame, right? That's a very isolating thing. Whereas actually, and weirdly this is, I'm doing this showman at the moment, and this is entirely what the show's about, those isolating experiences, they're exactly the things that join us all up. That is the

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  32. No, that's all wrong, and even stoicism in a way is sort of A little guilty of that. Even something that's talk about rolling with the punches of life is still kind of suggesting that, and if you get this right, you won't be disturbed. You won't experience anxiety. That's a little bit off, really. I think the nature of life is that it is difficult, and not all the time, but a lot of the time things really go badly and they certainly don't go as you planned, and that actually you start to get older, you realize your plans probably have nothing to do with how things are turning out, but the illusion that they are is what propels you through the first half of life. Actually, I think the project, the task, our task is

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  33. Yeah, well, I don't know when I said that. That was probably quite a while ago. And I don't know if I'd necessarily be that hard on myself now. Plus, I don't know if you exaggerate these things for rhetorical effect.

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  34. Maybe, yeah, maybe it does. Yeah, I probably would. Yes, I would reflect it back on myself rather than being angry at it. Partner, anybody else who's probably lost it, that's what he'd do. He'd be angry that I must have put his keys somewhere because he can't find them. I would just be beaten myself up for why am I always losing stuff? Why can't I remember where I put things? Yeah, I definitely would do that.

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  35. That was me saying that, was it? Yeah, that's just fury, though, isn't it, when you can't find a sock or you can't find your keys or your pen.

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  36. open about it is just people don't care why why would they care so that's that's the lib that's why it's liberating it's not because suddenly you can you know spin around in the street with your shopping bags it's um it's just that oh no one cares about your own difficult private stuff in the best way so actually and you've done the big one like you've so now anything else after this will be will be fine that i think that's why it's a liberating thing

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  37. I don't know, I don't there's never just a clear moment. I think as I just got in the public eye, I thought I'd want this to be some weird sort of thing that's like a secret. So in the end you come out of it. You come out about it and then actually the joy, the reason why it's liberating, at least it was for me and probably hopefully most people now is that people just don't care like this thing that you've carried around and that experience, that shameful centre that's there again shame is a really strong word but nonetheless it is kind of Just this sort of awkward thing eventually. When it when you sort of

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  38. It's sort of difficult to really know. And of course, at the time I was also a proper Christian, which Slightly kind of messes the thing up and just slightly gets in the way of the whole thing. I had a friend who went through the some of that kind of living waters movement which is the kind of gay conversion is got called gay conversion therapy. It was a bit more subtle than that but it nonetheless is basically that. So he was going through that and although I didn't I was kind of skirted it a little bit because I was his friend and you know it was something we were talking about a lot. So all of those things Obviously, by the way, it doesn't work. I mean, I went in straight, it worked for me. So, yeah, it was sort of...

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  39. Shameful. So I think that's it. I think that's where I don't remember feeling that as a kid. As I said, quiet and so on, but I don't remember feeling that as an experience, but it just sort of kind of crept in. And the more I sort of was leaning into the magic persona thing, the more the outside becomes sort of the harder and more opaque this sort of exterior presentation becomes, I think it goes hand in hand with a more shameful. until in the end you just sort of go fuck that and just sort of let it all be fine.

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  40. No, I think it's specifically with sort of the gay thing that's what it is. I think if you feel, and hopefully it's different now, it's going back a bit, 51 now, but if you feel like those things are just embarrassing and awkward, you're kind of... Know it's not like you really get to well, you're finding it out in real time about yourself, aren't you, so there's just It becomes an uncomfortable centre of everything that starts to affect so much of what happens on the surface. And there's a real experience, I think, if you're not out, which I've recognised in many friends as well, but there's just a bit of a bubble around you because you're sort of you're having to maintain a kind of a sort of curated exterior. And part of that then is then what's happening underneath is uncomfortable and difficult and feels

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  41. Getting older is recognizing those kind of things, aren't they? Recognising, ah, that is a needless pattern. And as you said with your own experience with that, those things can be really helpful. They can provide a real impetus and a motivation to do things you wouldn't. I mean, not being out. All that energy was going into crate in this Mr Magic kind of persona and although it's easy to say you should always come out and all the rest of it, of course those things are important too but I don't think I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you now I don't think if that had been an easy ride you know

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  42. I suppose if you distinguish it from embarrassment, embarrassment is sort of where you've let yourself down in front of or you've... It's a feeling you're going to get from other people. They're important in that. It's how you've appeared before them, or as I suppose Seamus how you've appeared before yourself, that you've sort of let something down within yourself. It's that, isn't it? But I think the experience of it is just a sort of It just becomes an easy resting place. Whatever it is, it might be for someone else, it could be anger or fury or whatever. If there's just an emotional through line that was a familiar place when you were young, it's just you just find yourself settling back into that. And I suppose part of...

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  43. Yeah, I can't remember exactly what I wrote, but Yeah, it kind of creeps up on you. I find now it's. Prone to it, you know, if I feel I've upset my partner it's a shame that I'll go to rather than defensiveness or you know really yeah I just I'll easily easily get back to a feeling of If, you know, I've been bad. I've just sort of let this person down.

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  44. out a great dazzling surfaces because they deflect people from the more difficult if you're feeling shame about what's underneath and I think magic's very good for that as well you know you're you're sort of creating this bubble around yourself this sort of this you're literally hiding behind a trick and people will look at that trick and go oh gosh you're amazing how do you do that you're amazing that's a very appealing thing a lot of kids get into magic just because they're underconfident and a lot of people even going through magic into adults they they've learnt to rely on that to impress people and haven't had to go back and just work through normal social skills that most people do so it's a very appealing I think all of that was helpful to me as somebody that was. Not out and kind of working all that stuff out.

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  45. If you watch a hypnotist hypnotizing people, I mean, it's just that the whole thing is a big exercise in control. And I think I sort of that was appealing to me, although I didn't know it didn't strike me quite in that language at the time. But I think looking back, that was. Helpful and also I think if the old outmoded cliche of the The gay man in particular being a hairdresser or a interior designer and all of those sort of horrible old cliches, what they have in common actors as well is the notion of

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  46. Yeah, yes, I guess so. You're definitely putting yourself out there, aren't you, if you perform any sort, you are... Opening yourself up to both extremes of reactions, but it wasn't really about that for me. I think it was about control was a big part of it. And also as a sort of, like I didn't come out till I was actually quite late in my 30s. And I think around the time that I was getting into Hypnosis, so that was you know, sort of university time, really. And I think, first of all, it was, and this all wasn't clear to me at the time, but with hindsight, that the control aspect of it was very clear and I clearly ticked

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  47. I think I was sensitive, I think I still am, I was quite a sensitive, child I did used to cry a lot, I know that makes me sound. Unhappy, but I used to it didn't take much to make me. I think I probably retained a sort of sensitivity, which is sort of interesting to write a lot about stoicism and a lot of the things I think people do tend to write about the things that they... either need to learn for themselves or our learning as you express those things often better because you're discovering them for yourself so Perhaps like a lot Stoics, I'm secretly quite sensitive too. So I remember that, but not. Not really unhappy, not blissfully happy either, but just a kind of fairly content, solitary kind of kid.

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  48. I think I'm quite fond of my memories of myself as a child. And I It felt like there was quite a clean break once I sort of went off to university. It felt like life sort of stopped and started again. So I When I think back to my kind of the sort of story of myself, I guess I'm sort of quietly living out the back of my head, I sort of don't really go much beyond university age. And I'll happily find anything excruciating, like, you know, More than anything I've settled on ten minutes ago, I find that quite easy. And that feeling. I suppose kind of gets weaker and weaker the further I go back in terms of finding myself embarrassing and then by the time I get to childhood it's all perfectly all feels Fine, I mean, I'm aware, as I said, that I was kind of Would sort of just get on with my own things but nothing.

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  49. Studying out there, I think, or did my gap year, I think it was out there, and just I mean, This guy's playing the, I think it was the Beethoven piano sonatas. Just him on his own, on the stage at the Berlin Phinemonic. And there's this incredibly loud sniffing that I'm doing. And by the second half everybody had cleared out. I was just basically a whole empty area of the audience. But yeah, it's such a bizarre thing. You just can't really stop it with the best will in the world. You can't stop yourself from doing this things. And it's also you don't have the language for it as a kid. That's the worst part of it. You don't have the language to explain that it's a compulsion. You sort of feel like you're in control of it. So you feel like therefore the only thing you can say is that you want to do it, but you don't want to do it because it's horrible. You really, really want to stop. And it's hard and frightening because you can't articulate it.

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  50. When you get the idea in your head and then it's very hard to let it go, sometimes I get it now, sometimes I get it on stage because there's a certain amount, there's a lot of muscle memory with doing a stage show. So if a little twitch you think has crept in at one point during the show, it'll just creep in every night. So I still kind of still aware of it. Little more over the last few years because obviously it's been such a weird few years for everyone's mental health. So I've noticed it more than I have before. But yeah, it was quite my parents were quite despairing with it. I think it's a very painful thing to watch a child do and not know. Knees knocking, sniffing, terrible sniffing. Yeah, like but really loud. I went to CA. Alfred Brendel, the pianist playing in Berlin once when I was.

    2023-01-12 · The Diary of a CEO · Derren Brown: UNLOCK The Secret Power Of Your Mind! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT