YouSaid · the spoken record

Dylan Collins

lines on the record: 126
first: 2019-12-18
most recent: 2019-12-18
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Right, and you know the team over there doing some good things, but in all of these companies, I try and look for who's the chief children's officer. Have you actually appointed someone who's thinking about this, right? And I mean, you know, maybe you should call Susan back and sort of ask her who she's going to be hiring children. Right, yeah. And this is a lot of...”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Appliedly serious about privacy, and they started to roll out changes in the kids app store a couple weeks ago, and they actually said, hey, we are endorsing this kid tech model of zero data, right? Right. So I would say they are probably the most well positioned. Google have invested into YouTube kids.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's really interesting. One of the big issues here, and the reason you do, is that when you look at all of the investment dollars that are going into this space, right, they're mostly from us, right? Google has invested in YouTube kids, and we can talk about that, right? And that is actually a good example of a thing. But if you look around at all of the major tech companies, their investment into kid tech and infrastructure for the family is more or less zero, materially speaking. Let's go through. Right.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. And that was how we got to our third product, which is sort of it's an integrated kids and parents authentication platform. So a child is able to sign up to a service and there is a matched account for a parent. So you as a parent are able to sort of say, right, these are the permissions I'm willing to set for my child in this app or this game or this service.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the problem is that there's even now all of the laws around this are only slowly starting to emerge where people are realizing that if kids are learning behavior from how they're engaging online.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because they completely disagree. Comments, they feel they can say absolutely anything. Subject of documentaries and people committing suicide and the behaviors, you're 100% right. This is where they learn to do this later in life will be a problem.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I was getting bullying was the second point. That is absolutely by far the biggest thing. Because they completely disassociate their identity from comments, they feel they can say absolutely anything.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. Like, you know, I literally was But I would say the bigger problem statistically when you look at that is not so much that kind of behavior. It's children just being dicks to each other.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right that they're going to get, meaning an older child would know. But I can't count on my hands how many times, Mike, is like, who is this? And I'm like, that would be a pedophile. Yeah. Literally, it was fat on YouTube. I was fat. I was like, wait a minute.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Hello pedophiles. Right, yeah. I mean, community is like, you know, again, it was a one size fits all model that the valley rolled out. It's like, hey, here's Facebook pages. Here's Instagram and everyone can go there. So we have companies are able to plug our community solution in and it's fully moderated comments. You have everything that gets put into a comment goes through moderation layer, which is technology, which is machine learning, but then there's also a full-time human team on top of that. There are invisible safety scores. So you're sort of looking at the behavior of a child in a particular session and sort of seeing are they, you know, can they be trusted essentially, which raises or lowers the level of moderation that they're going to go through?”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is the difference between the adult world and the kids' world, right? In the adult world, everyone's been focused on having algorithms that augment humans. We think about it literally the other way around. You have to have humans augmenting algorithms. You have to have humans supervising any algorithms. Humans have to be involved in the kid space. And I think that's such a total paradigm shift for a lot of these big tech companies.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely by humans I mean, no is the short answer. I mean, we've got lots of tools. This is what these companies produce.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. And there's rules there. So we've kind of become a little bit like a global clearinghouse of sorts for appropriate responsible kids after that.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We allow ads, but all the ads go through our system. So the technology makes sure that they're completely safe from a data privacy point of view. And then our review ensures that the actual creative of the ad, what the ad is itself, is absolutely appropriate for the television.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are ads, and I mean, you have to have, I think, for content creators, you have to have a way for them to make money. The subscription would be one thing. Subscription is one, free as another. And the reality is you're going to mix all of this. And it's there to be.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, absolutely. I call it a cheap date method. You're a cheap date. You see that Jaron Lanier piece we should be paid? I've been saying this for decades. Like we should be paid for our information. Absolutely.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know what you're looking at, who you are as being captured, and then shared with 100 other companies behind the scenes. You just don't know where your data is going. Right, absolutely”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, absolutely. It is what we call zero data. It's capturing absolutely no data. So I suppose the more ads that kids see that are powered by our tech, the safer they are online. Because all of that, you know, you don't like with an adult solution with double click or anything like that.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, pre moderation. No data is ever captured. So literally our entire stack can't. It's not possible to capture any personal data on a child whatsoever. So we were essentially replacing a lot of the other ad serving bits and pieces that are out there that are designed to capture as much a new as possible. Right, exactly.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely, right? Right. And that's just an absolutely different way of thinking from how the valley works. So from an ad perspective.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I think if you, I mean, we sort of have three parts of the stack. We've got the ad piece, the community piece, and the identity piece. The ad piece is essentially, it works. It shows an ad without capturing any data on the child at all. So basically just looks at the content and says, here's an ad that's going to match the content. But it also has human review of all the ads. So every single ad that gets served has been reviewed by a human. And we started building all of these products with the assumption that the end user was ultimately a child. And you've got a lot of different concepts to take into account. So when you think about moderation, right, if you think go back to YouTube for a second, right, with YouTube, all moderation is post, right? So it's like a thing gets published and if someone decides it's terrible, you report it, right? With kids, you got to do the opposite. You've got to pre-moderate all of that stuff. So when you think about sort of scaling up and planning.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Tools, right? And it's like when you look at all of the tech that you need to make apps work, you need community, you need safe advertising, you need moderation, you need authentication, all the things that Google has built and Facebook has built that you can plug in if you're a developer. There wasn't a version of that that could be used to create a kid's experience. So we kind of replicated that.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A lot of people thought it was games. A lot of people thought it was some sort of content. It kind of varied over time. It's like, oh, you do something with kids, right?”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Honestly, one of the reasons we did it was like, I mean, everyone said no to us in terms of investing. People were like, we don't care. This isn't going to be a thing. We don't care. We don't care. We don't care. We don't care. And I think we had to come up with a name that just made people smile and at least made someone take the meeting because they were curious about what does a company like Super Awesome do.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and that gets pretty frustrating after about 10 minutes. So after I heard all of these people saying, no, we don't care about kids, we don't care about privacy, a light bulb gradually started to go off. Hey, no one is investing in making tools to make environments for kids, to make apps for kids. There's only going to be more kids. So at some point you're going to need this tech. So we started the very humbly name super awesome.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Companies sold people. No, I think every founder goes through this experience of thinking that actually being an investor will be easy or easier, right?”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, this is the thing, right? I mean, who's going to use most consumer apps? It's users who have the most time. Turns out that's mostly kids, unsurprisingly. But the problem is that when you look at the developer tools that have been released over the years, if you want to build an app, if you want to create a crossword app, right, most of the stuff that you can use off the shelf to build that is just designed for adults. So it's capturing all this data, it's capturing analytics, it's doing whatever it's doing, right? And no one had really invested in building.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, absolutely. And it was interesting because I had Commissioner Slaughter in here from the FTC, and she was even using Crossword puzzle apps, which are great, which are amazing. And they're actually better online because you can change the number of pieces and everything else. And her kids started getting ads for, I forgot what it was. It was just crazy ads because they did the free version of the app. So it's not just YouTube. Nothing is designed with a children's option. And that's who uses these things.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, you've got to think about different models where if you're doing advertising, it's going to be contextual, right? So it's just based on the content, not based on the user. You can do subscription. You can do a whole bunch of other things. But fundamentally, everyone now has to assume that there are two types of user on the internet. There's an adult and there's a child.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The fundamental issue, if you go right back, is that none of these platforms were ever designed for anything other than adults. No one thought that kids were going to use it. Right. And it really is. And all of a sudden it's 2019. And every one of these technology companies is being faced with this existential problem. And it's not just, oh, we need to think about content moderation. You're talking about having to completely change business models, right? Because with, you know, anyone sort of who is monetizing personal data for advertising, which is most of these companies, you literally can't do that with kids. So you have to rethink all of it.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, with some of their excuses are we don't know. The kids are like kids, my kid did use a fake cage at one point, which I got him off of it. But not just that, is that there's enormous amounts of kids' content that attracts kids, which is just not regulated in any way that really is just there. And then the problem you have is there's a lot of good content for kids, but then it gets mixed in with pedophiles, with all kinds of, they don't keep it as clean as they need to.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, TikTok and YouTube were fundamentally fine for the same thing, which was they were allowing children under the age of 13 to use their platform and they were facilitating data being collected by having ads there or something else. So on YouTube, for example, anytime you see a pre-roll ad that's dropping cookies and tracking your information behind the scenes. So if a kid who's eight or nine is looking at some kids content on YouTube, of which there's a lot, essentially the FTC said YouTube, you are allowing children to be tracked. This is a clear violation of COPPA and more or less the same for TikTok.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. YouTube just got fined $170 million. Fucking change. Pocket change, but, you know, it's $170 million. Sure. But I think the point was the very first time we saw any major technology company have to acknowledge, yes, we have kids using our platform. Absolutely everyone knew, right? And again, kids are 40% of the internet in 2018. So they are on every platform by definition. Historically, the challenge has always been that the more Silicon Valley could ignore this fact, the more they did, and the bigger the problem became underneath the surface. Okay.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're here with Dylan Collins. He's the CEO of Super Awesome, which works with brands and media companies to make sure that they put online content for kids. Privacy laws like COP in the US and GDPRK in the EU and across the world. So here you are with this opportunity. They pass these laws. They don't make much stuff for kids. And the ones that do get into trouble just recently, obviously, at the FDC fine, TikTok, a very small amount. I think it was $5.7. It was like a couch change, I call that. And as opposed to the Facebook parking ticket for the consent degree, that did not have to do with kids. But YouTube just recently was fined also under the same...”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so essentially what's happened around the world is that the FTC sort of set the gold standard with CAPA. You've seen Europe take this up, increase the age, start to increase sort of the coverage of all of this and the level of detail. But you've also seen other countries around the world do it. So you're seeing countries in South America, you're seeing Australia, parts of Southeast Asia, China even has its own, which sounds like a strange sentence. China has a data privacy law for children. So you're kind of seeing the FTC ultimately, and maybe they didn't realize they were going to do this, triggered essentially a global regulation of the internet for children. So anywhere you go, some version of this law that basically says kids have to be kept anonymous. You can't capture their data.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Copper essentially got updated right Everything else, which they needed to do, which was the one case of legislators, they should have done it for everybody. Absolutely. And then GDPR, same thing, processing the personal data of a child is only allowed by law when the child is at least 16 years old.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, yeah. But although, I mean, more and more discussion around it, and I think to some degree being driven around sort of what's happening with kids. Because I mentioned in 2012, COPPA essentially got updated, right? And dramatically changed to reflect the fact that kids were on mobile and tablet and everything else.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, you go back to the history of, like, in 1998, like Copper came in because originally the Senator Markey and a couple of others were trying to get a general data privacy law passed for anyone in the US. And that got watered down to a kid's privacy bill. Because they felt, look, you've got to care about kids, so let's start with this.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Completely anonymous, right? Right. Now, just COP stands for Child's Online Privacy Protection Act. It was passed in 1998. It took effect in 2000, and it's managed by the FTC. I just had Commissioner Slaughter in to talk about COP21. And it's also been subject to a lot of stuff around Section 230. So essentially what Congress is telling companies is you can steal everyone else's privacy, but not kids and any more stringent on it.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you're private. Right, so KAPPA is a reasonably rare example of politicians doing something that is sensible and positive. Started in the US and it's a digital privacy law which basically says that if you are interacting with children, you cannot capture their personal data, personally identifiable information as what it's called, which means no cookies, no targeting. You can't track them across the internet. Essentially kids under the age of 13 have to be kept completely anonymous, right? Which if you think about it is the exact opposite model to household and valley has been built.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, these are investors, and I was kind of like, but the maths on this is the maths, right? There's only going to be more kids.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it was kind of copper, which you've probably heard of, right? Which is kind of the main digital types you all hear. Right, yeah. And that sort of kicked in in 2012. But when it came out to the valley, I kept hearing two things. One, all these investors saying, look, he normally cares about kids. And the second thing people were saying was, hey, no one really cares about digital privacy either. I have a little bit of a track record. But I was constantly hearing people saying, no, we don't get it. We're not interested. We don't get it. We're not interested.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I started to see things didn't make any sense, right? So you had all the media companies saying kids TV was going to be around forever. But when I looked at the analytics on the kids game company I'd invested in and I saw all these numbers going up and up and up and kids spend more and more time on tablet, it was like both of these graphs can't be going up at the same time. It's only 24 hours in a day. So it was kind of pretty clear that this dislocation was happening. And iPad came out in, what, 2010. Kids were starting to pick them up sort of second, third generation, 12, 13. And it seemed like there was going to be this big media landscape shift from TV to digital. And, you know, kind of went, huh, that's interesting. And I was kind of kicking around the idea of maybe building kind of a content company in the kids space. And I used to come out to the valley a lot and sort of, you know, see friends of mine. And I started to kind of talk to a few investors about, look, here's what's going on in kids. This seems interesting. Thinking about building a company. And I saw sort of the start of the digital privacy laws, right?”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I love Dublin. It's a wonderful city. Dublin's great. It's a good place to go for a weekend. I mean, it depends on what you want to do. And I think it's definitely created a bit of a challenge for startups, right? Because all of a sudden you're literally competing against the biggest tech companies in the world to try and retain people and do all the things. But yeah, I mean, Web Summit came out of there, Patty Cosgrave's thing and everything else. There's been some big companies in Dublin.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of tax issues. That's right Facebook, Amazon, everybody's there. Yeah. I mean, like, I suppose in the last 10 or 15 years, as you say, it's absolutely been driven by, you know, favorable tax rates and sort of the various tax deals that can be done across Europe. But they've hired up meaningfully. I mean, Facebook, Google have thousands of employees there. They're probably one of the biggest real estate owners in Dublin at this point, too.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There were a couple of games companies that were like digital media, there was enterprise, it was like wherever I found founders who were good, right? And who I thought knew what they were doing. And sort of very randomly out of that collection of things, two of those investments happened to be in the kid space. So there was this little kids game in London which was sort of making like an online Pokemon. So I was an angel investor in that. And then one of my other investments was in a kids animation studio that was making Dublin, that was making shows for Nickelodeon and Disney. So it kind of gave me this unusual perspective on the world of kids, right? And I don't have kids. So I'm coming to this completely new. And I saw sort of all the TV people and what they were talking about. And then a handful of founders who were building a game. And this was like in 2012 sort of thing, right? And all the TV people were sort of saying, hey, kids TV is going to be around forever. It's only getting bigger and bigger and bigger.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I stayed there for a couple of years, so I was kind of then commuting between Dublin and Dallas, which is a curious sort of bifurcation of my life. Wow. So good Guinness and Good Fried Chicken and how much in between. And after that, I sort of just started Angel investing in different things. So I invested a bunch of companies in the UK and in the US. They're not gay.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, to log into the game. It was a huge big deal. But the challenge was GameStop were always under so much pressure. They were like one of the most shorted stocks on the Nasdaq, right? So they acquired us and we had this big initiative to roll it out, but they were under so much pressure from the street that they just had to focus back on doing the bricks and mortar thing. So ultimately their pivot to digital, they couldn't do it as a public company.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Before we were acquired, our distribution was on browser and through Facebook. The reason we did the GameStop deal was we were kind of looking at what was then the biggest games retailer in the US. And we realized we could sort of mash our digital games with their physical distribution. So what we did was whenever anyone was buying a game physically in GameStop, they would get a promo code on their receipt.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The idea of it. That's right. And I mean, ultimately, Zinga got caught by the shift to mobile on that and by Facebook sort of deciding that they didn't quite want to be a games platform after a while. So everything started to really shift across the sort of iOS. And your distribution.”
2019-12-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dylan Collins · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source