YouSaid · the spoken record

Emily Kramer

lines on the record: 83
first: 2022-09-11
most recent: 2022-09-11
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Thanks for having me. This was really fun, and I'm looking forward to also having that guest newsletter come out with you and, you know, just getting Lennyized. It's a weird phrase. I won't use that again.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I'm on Twitter and like Dan, it's just Emily Kramer, my name. Pretty simple. You can find links to the courses that are run to the newsletter, to our job board to talking to me about Angel Investing as a marketer on our website, MK21.co. And that should set you off in the right direction. And yeah, we have lots of things going on to help marketers build out their teams and help founders build out their marketing teams. So if that's you and you're in a situation where you're mostly at a B2B company trying to build out marketing, get in touch with me through my website or through Twitter.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As marketers, we love, we love Pate, the phrase folly. Some of the other She was comms at Glossier as well as she used to be at box and things like that, and is big on Twitter, but she was just someone else whose marketer return fund manager. So it's always nice to have other people like that to kind of compare notes with. I think that Ariel Jackson from first round is an amazing support system to founders and marketers at startups. So if you're at a first round company, she's a great resource. I think she's just a great resource in general. I also think Kevin Lee, the head of marketing at Oyster, he's an LP in our fund. He puts out a newsletter and has a full-time job growing a rapidly growing marketing team. So I have a lot of respect. He's coming to speak to the people in a course that I'm learning next week. So he's top of mind. But yeah, those are some people that come to mind. But I mean, I have a lot of marketers that I admire. I'm lucky that in our in our fun, we have over 50 marketers. So I have like a pretty big arsenal of people I can go to just from that as well. So I lean on the people there for a lot of different.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, it's good to have interview questions that maybe teach you something about maybe teach you something about how they're going to do at the job, but also learn something about the person and in a way that's not just like tell me about yourself.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I like the complicated framing. And then sometimes what I'll do, especially if they're going to be someone that's going to be writing, is I'll be like, okay, make it simpler. And then I'll have them describe it to me again, simpler. And like, I've probably done that in one interview. I've probably done it like four times. Which that part isn't super fun, but it depends on the person if I think they can like handle the like, you know, kind of like joking around make it simpler, make it simpler. And if I think the topic's interesting, of course, and I'll like want to hear about some things over and over again. Awesome.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Answers, yeah, teach me something I don't know. This is a variation on teach me something. I don't know because it's really about how simply can you communicate it. Teach me something you don't know comes across as a little, I don't want to say like pretentious, but it's like it's overwhelming. I'll add a little.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most people pick things related to cooking, which is really strange. I ask that question like every interview for a long time, just like kind of as the final question because you learn something about people. And yeah, so many people pick cooking. I'm like, that's a good choice because I find cooking really complicated and I have no idea how to do it. So, you know, describe describe these various aspects of cooking to me. But yeah, that's always a fun one. There's other like questions that I always ask, like walk me through a project you've done recently from start to finish. And I'm listening for things like, can you tell me the goal and can you tell me an audience? But those are those are more boring. So I'll stop there.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are so many interview questions that I like to ask. I mean, like one of the basic interview questions and marketing that I like to ask is just like the company that you're working on, what's the product? Why is it better? Who is it for? It's like the most basic positioning question you can ask. But a lot of people can't answer it. So that's a good one. And like also if you're like writing positioning at your company or if you're on marketing your company and you can't tell me what the product is, why it's better than for it, like go figure that out. Like that's what the homepage of your website should cover. In fact, the hero of your website and so many don't. A fun question that I like to ask that's more just like it's like a mix of like getting to know you, but also seeing how you can communicate is like describe something. And I didn't come up with this question, but I really like it. Describe something complicated that you knew well that others don't and describe it as simply as you can. And it's just interesting to hear what people pick.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lenny's going to spend the rest of the day weeping. You want to get a newsletter next week just because he's rewatching Koda. Yeah”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's yeah, it's about a family who like a non-hearing, like a family who can't hear and then their daughter can hear and they become really interested in music and like there's the story of a family and they're like a family of fishermen in Massachusetts, which my brother is a clamor in Massachusetts as his job. His only job, but one of his jobs is that he clams, so he doesn't quite have that fisherman vibe. But, you know, somewhat relevant. Yeah. Really, really good movie.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, so it won't like me Oscar. So, yeah, I'm really original in my picks here. I'm like, oh, I just watched the Oscar Best picture. I thought it was great. No, Bakoda was like, I think I cried, or at least I almost cried.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or a guy or a guy, any gender. Yeah, I really like yellow jackets. I think it's great. And it was like the first show in a while that I've been watching it probably like for the first couple of episodes. Like I wasn't on my phone half the time. So that's like my measure for is it good? And then the best movie I've seen recently was we watched Koda, which is, I think it won some like Oscars or something. I think it won't Best Picture.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My favorite TV show from this year was Yellow Jackets on Showtime, which is kind of like Lord of the Flies, which bunch of women, like Lord of the Flies. It's really good. So it has like Christina Ritchie in it, like the person who was in like Casper and now and then if you were like a girl that grew up in the late 80s and 90s, you don't know who the Christina Richie is. Absolutely. But yeah.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, I mean, you're doing a great job for someone who's just started off doing podcasts. Thank you. You go deep with people, which I think is good. It's not just the service level stuff. Look, like the podcasting listen to most is like every night when I go to sleep, I listen to the daily, the New York Times Daily, like just gets me, you know, to know what's going on. I also like some true crime podcasts, but I won't talk about that because maybe that's a little embarrassing and basic. And I think for like just kind of getting understanding founders and startups, like over the years, I found like how I built this to be really helpful. And like the main thing I learned from like how I built this is that most startups are really happy. And so like if you feel like at the beginning and like if you feel like, oh, like this is a mess, like we're doing everything wrong, like that's kind of common. So it's like helpful in that regard too. It's like it's not just me. But I think there's really interesting, you know, founder stories and hearing how things are built is always helpful. So those are some that I like.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Depressing topic giving all of the tumultuousness in the world, but I thought it was just a very beautifully written book. And when you read a lot of business writing a lot, it's kind of nice to step back and just read like really beautiful prose on like a really heavy topic that isn't just like startup marketing. So it was kind of fun to go back and read sort of a older book that was really beautifully written. Next one, Lenny.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I kind of like the classic marketing book, maybe because I think if they're not a classic and they're like recency-based, like marketing changes so fast, like most things in startups and technology changes so fast that some of the, I like the things that I've stood the test of time. And those are things like the tipping point and like crossing the chasm. And I like Seth Godin's purple cow, which is just like having something that makes you stand out. So those are like the classic marketing books. I think every marketer or some of them should have read at some point. I think April Dumper's obviously awesome is sort of becoming one of those books that every marketer should have read on positioning. It's really helpful, even if you're not like a product marketer doing positioning. I think it's really helpful. And then the book I read most recently is not related to marketing at all. I read as my partner's favorite book and she was always like, I don't think you're going to like this book. I don't think you'll like it, but it's her favorite book. And it's all the light, all the light we cannot see or you cannot see World World World War II, which is sort of.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The other thing there, too, is if you refer Someone at a company hires, they're going to love you forever. Like, they remember that because you sit there and you look at that. I mean, you're maybe not anymore looking at them in an office, but you see or are aware of them every day and you remember, oh, they came from this person. So like one of the most valuable things you could do is refer candidates. And so, you know, that's where I think you can add a ton of leverage just referring to the right people. So if you have a network and a bunch of people that you know in a certain area, like that scenario where you can really do a lot of good for a startup.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Really, really helpful. And the other thing, too, the last thing I'll say on that is like, you know, each founder probably thinks maybe they don't, that it takes us a lot more time than it actually does to be helpful in that area. Like I had the same conversations over and over again about how to hire a marketer. Like, you can do it in my sleep. So like me having that conversation with you and like dropping knowledge that you haven't heard, like this is just what I do all day, but it feels really new because they don't have a lot of people talking to them about marketing. We just have a bunch of candidates that we talk to and our newsletter candidates that we talk to. So like anyone can go on our website and get on our list of candidates that we refer and I talk to one or two candidates a week from that to just meet more marketers. So like I have, you know, a list of marketers I can refer and say it's really easy when doctors ask me for referrals. So it starts to scale pretty well if you have that niche where you have.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, you definitely have to deliver. And again, I think that's where it's like really helpful to say where you're going to deliver. So they're not necessarily expecting you to deliver on every little thing. Like they're expecting me to help them hire their marketer, hire contractors in marketing, fill in gaps until they have the marketing team that they need. And so they know when to come to you and then you respond. Yeah, I think that's also like when people have full-time jobs, I think it's hard to be able to do that full-time jobs that aren't this. It's hard to be able to just like tap in and do this kind of stuff. So it's like don't go overboard because your reputation really, really matters. And that's how we've always seen it. Like we want to be the most helpful angel investors or now we have a small fund, but the helpful sort of most helpful investors that you have in your captivity, regardless, like not just within marketing, but within everything. And we do that because we can go really deep on an area and we're always responsive on those areas. And yeah, it's good to hear it's working because that's what we're trying to do is be.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Product market yourself? Like, what's the product that you're offering? And then it's so easy. Like, you know, I need to like bring me into deals where they might need some marketing help. And there's tons of investors that do that, which gets us the deal full that we need. So yeah, I just think if you have, if you have a niche or you have an area where you're particularly skilled, you can really leverage that into being a sought after angel. Now, if I make sure that investor, I'm not sure there's lots of other things you need to get up to speed on to actually be a good investor. But from the standpoint of like helping founders and getting into deals, that can be really helpful.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well articulated. Like, we're going to help you build marketing. It's like easy to understand. It makes it easier for other people to bring you into deals versus here's another generalist investor that's just going to like help. So it's almost like you got to like”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Having the right strategy and doing the right things. And so being that clear on like, here's my exact value add is incredibly helpful. And I mean, we get into every deal that we want to, we being, I have a business partner named Kathleen, though I do all this with and we can get into any deal, which I think as like an early angel investor, I'm like, why are people saying it's hard to get into deals? Like, I don't have this problem. And that's not me like tapping myself on the shoulder. It's just showing this huge shortage here. So your skill set might be really valuable to founders. And even if you feel like, oh, I don't understand how everything works at a company or, you know, things like that, like your skill set could be really valuable and they might not see it. It's also when you have a unique skill set in a unique way that you help that's well.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think there's a big need for investors that have functional expertise. In traditional VCs, they don't necessarily, maybe they founded companies, maybe they've always been investors or, you know, sometimes VCMC come from like sales roles or PM roles. But for me and for marketing and maybe for some of the roles that other people are in, like there's not a lot of investors or even advisors from that function. And they need help there. And so I think more and more founders are seeing instead of having advisors or even hiring someone to function early, it's like, let me lean on angel investors for that. And so, you know, I make it very clear when I talk to founders, this is how I'm going to help. Like I'm going to help people build your marketing function. I'm definitely going to help you hire. I'm going to help you shape the job description of the process. I'm probably going to refer you to some candidates. I might even refer the candidate that you hire, which has happened a bunch of times. And then I'm going to work with that person to make sure that they're.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It all together and say, what are we doing as a marketing team that's moving the needle? But I think the other thing about like communicating often, it's also like communicating at the right level. I find that marketers, even though they're often good at communicating with the audience, they're not good at communicating internally. And I think I've struggled here too as they move to like leading larger teams and being on executive teams. It's just like, what level of information do you need to communicate? And you need to educate people about what marketing does. Because one, marketing often has a bad reputation. And so you need to be like, here's what we're actually doing moving. And two, like, there's a lot of jargon in marketing and like, you got to separate that out and communicate the right level of information at the right time. So I think that's hard too. And so that's why I like things like the DAX framework and other things like that of like what exactly am I communicating about and at what level it's hard to get right there too.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Marketing person. Yeah. And look, if it's not the teamly, and because sometimes you do have especially larger companies, you have a team lead that's either like on the, you could have someone that's extremely sort of creative and sort of on the brand side of things, but they need to have someone that's working with them that is really good at all of this stuff. Like there's a big sort of, almost like we need marketing PM, then those tend to be the product marketers or the lead because there's so many different projects going on and lots of different things happening and it's hard to.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like, sort of Big thing, it's like, are they doing a bunch of busy work or are they doing a bunch of things that can actually lead to tangible growth and what metrics are they using to track that? The other thing is like if they're not tracking to my point about not just looking at the raw numbers in each stage of the funnel, but looking at the conversion rates, if they're not looking at conversion anywhere at all, there's a huge problem. Because again, I can throw a bunch of people into a funnel stage, but they don't convert to the next one. It might not be helping anything. Their focus on conversion, not just at the stages of the funnel that they own, but throughout the entire funnel. I think also is a good indicator if they're being successful as marketers or not.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the conversion rate from that traffic, or the signups that come from that. So it's not, you shouldn't have activity goals. You should have impact goals. And so the best marketing teams are focused on these funnel metrics. They're not just focused on a certain number like signups or qualified leads. They're focused on that number plus maintaining or improving the conversion rate that comes after it. So they're focused on signups with a conversion rate to activated user of the save or better than it is now. Because I can get a lot more people to sign up for a product, but like they might be really shitty quality. So you need to have sort of that other threshold. So these are some of the things I look at to say, is marketing team impact focused? And when I talk to companies, I work with marketers and look at, you know, what are they doing? What are their projects? Like these are the things I usually point out. Like you need to be more impact focused. And here's what you need to do. So that's.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Webflow, and that will be able to move faster. So they should be able to break down, like, you know, here are the core things we have to do. We're measuring that the core work is working by these TPIs and it's sort of a full funnel view. And we are working on these big bets. And like here's the foundational things that are broken. So if you ask them marketingly, then you're like, what are their big bets? And they're like, I don't know. Like you can't grow at the rate of venture-backed startups should grow by just like continuing to do incremental things. Like that's the same in product that I would have mentioned as well. So like they need to have this sort of framework going on. And the other thing that I think is a sign that you're not being impact focused or you're not being effective as a marketing team is you have this is like my favorite thing to pick on and I see it all the time. And I understand why it happens, but like don't do it. It's like our goal is to write 10 blog posts this month. And I'm like, no, that's not a goal. Like that's maybe a tactic. But like the goal should be traffic or”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But it's true, a lot of, but I think it's funny because a lot of what marketing is that latter G and not strategy, meaning it's just like you just throw a bunch of stuff out there and you're doing a bunch of work and it's like a lot of busy work and you want to look busy, but it's not impact focused. The best marketing teams are like impact focused. They can tell you of all the things they're doing. What are the core things that are sort of driving that linear growth or just like keeping the lights on? They can tell you what their big bets are. Like what are the things that we are doing right now that we believe can cause step change top of funnel growth or step change growth on signups or whatever it might be? One of those things. What are the big bets that you're taking? And then what are the foundational sort of pieces of marketing that aren't done yet? Like that might be taking up time. Like we would love to be able to move faster here, but we're like, we don't have a good lead scoring system or like we're working on this. Like we need to redo our website and here's why. We need to like get it in.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. I recently did a talk with my friend Jenny, who was the head of content at Asana, and now is the head of content and comms at ClearBit. And she was sort of joking. We were like coming up for the name of the talk. And she was like, I want to call it Content Splattery versus Content Strategy. And I was like, We'll work that in, but we don't, you know, maybe that won't be the title. Latterty is a really weird word.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I like a framework. I like a framework and I like a template. And yeah, I am pretty PM minded. Like, because I'm pretty well rounded when it comes to the marketing skill set. Like, I don't really consider myself a growth marketer or a product marketer or a content marketer. I just. Consider myself a marketer who builds teams. And that's like, yeah, it's a different mindset. And I also love goals and planning, like not, no, I don't love like annual planning processes that companies do and like overdone OKR exercises where you're making like this crazy cascade that then nobody can follow. But like basic sort of simple planning so that you, you know, kind of go a little slower up front so you can just like fly of getting things out the door. Like that's the kind of teams I like to lead.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think the last thing is just like a respect for the skill set recognizing you're good at this or like you had you have access to engineers you know how to get them to do things like I don't want to do that as a marketer like you know I'm good at storytelling and I know you know how to get people in the door and in the in the funnel and that's like respect to what each person is good at and let them go do their thing So those are just like some of the tactical practices and things that we did in Asana that I thought worked well. It's hard. I mean, everyone, you know, everyone wants the other team to be doing something a little bit differently. And that's always going to be the case. And those tensions in some cases are good because that's why you have the benefit of having different teams and different perspectives. But it gets out of hand when people are just working in silos and aren't communicating with each other and aren't looping people in on things that they're experts on.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Double down on and sort of dual public launch for whatever it is. Or, hey, like we really think onboarding needs to be approved. Let's put together like a group that's going to work on this this quarter and like let's kind of have like a spring plan that's cross functional. It's a lot of that. So a lot of this happens in a planning process. So if you as a company don't have a good planning process, like you're not going to have good cross-functional collaboration, especially between product and marketing.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And you can kind of weigh in on, oh, here are the channels they're going to be using, like the creative C has maybe the highest level messaging. And you get buy-in early on and then you can go much faster. And then you're not just sharing with product, like, here's a blog post that I wrote for the launch. And you're like, what? This is a wrong audience, the wrong thing. Like you just save so much time sharing these types of things up front. So I find like there's a handful of different practices that need to be in place, but it's like sharing the right information at the right level of information at the right times and having a culture of doing that. And it needs to go both ways. Like product needs to loop marketing and I'm like, hey, here's what I'm, you know, here's what we're working on this quarter. Here are going to be some of the things that we're launching.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is just a marketing brief that I recommend you do before you make anything and make anything big in marketing or do any big projects. And it's just, what are the goals? What's the audience? What's the creative or unique angle or like what's the like with this thing, I guess? What's going to make it different and stand out from other companies, I guess? The second C is the channels or how this is going to be distributed. How are you going to get the word out about this deep thinking there? And then the last piece are the stakeholders, like who's the DRI and who needs to weigh in and who's going to be the helper, who are the contributors. And that's where you can include some product people. And you can share this before you start doing any work. So for instance, if you're doing a product launch, product manager communicates with the marketing team. Maybe you have a meeting. Maybe you share some brief from the product side or you share sort of what's being built. And then marketing comes back to you with the GAX.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think another thing that we did well was also like kind of having clear review processes. And all of this sounds like a lot of process. But like once you actually make an AORs list, it kind of like runs itself. Like someone new gets hired, they're excited to put in their AORs or something that's a new responsibility and they're like stoked to like take it over from the head of marketing or whatever it is. I finally have handed you like the master managing editor AOR and it becomes like, you know, a big deal. The other thing that I think we did well from a marketing perspective is another newsletter that I have is this framework that I use called the GATS or the GACS, which GAX sounds more fun to say than the GACCS.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“going to break things down more, you know, goes from Emily owning all of marketing to me like breaking that down and not owning all of it. So I found that really helpful. I also found at Asano we did something called Roadmap Week, which was before every quarter where we had sort of open meetings. Sometimes they were open and sometimes they weren't, but we had cross-functional meetings to help plan for what you were going to do that quarter on your team. So like I could sit in on the product roadmapping for X as the head of marketing. And that was really helpful to just like get a sense for what was going on. And sometimes there'd be people in those that were like silent participators. And then like adopt even would be made so you could see this. And this maybe doesn't scale forever, but it worked really well early on for people being able to be looped in on things to have these sort of out loud planning meetings where you were talking through like here are our biggest decisions. Here's what we're like wrestling between and getting input, kind of knowing what was going on.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The DRI on test on the onboarding experience is Jennifer. But the copywriter for that is, I don't know, I'm sure think of exactly who the person was, is Devon on Marketing, right? Like, so we broke it down that simply so you knew who to go to because often what happens with products is they're like, I'm doing a launch. I don't know. There's, especially when there's like 15 markers, I don't know if long says to go to this for this product launch or to like figure out if this is a launchable feature. So I'm just going to like skip it. So it's really helpful to say like the product marketer owner for this part of the product is this and to just have this list. So just having clear ownership is what this comes down to. But it's one thing to have clear ownership. But it's like quite another to for other teams to know like who that clear owner is. So I think having a clear list beyond titles and just like who owns what is really helpful. And then as you hire new people, you can break down those, you know, the list kind of gets longer because you're.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and look, like there were definitely ups and downs marketing, working with product OSAN as well. But I think overall, we did a good job because of some of the systems that Asana had in place, which is, and we've talked about this before, but something that Asana did well is they had this list in Asana, of course, everything at Asana was in Asana through Asana by Asana. But we had a list of areas of responsibility, which is just who owns what. It's not your job title. It's what are the things that you are the DRI for. It doesn't mean they're not going to collaborate with people on those things, but what are you, the directly responsible individual for? And this made it really easy to know who to go to. Like the direct responsibility, I'm just going to use DRI because I can't keep saying directly responsible individuals.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's enough volume that you can be doing a bunch of tests. Like maybe that's the person that owns that. But I think there's still going to be a lot of collaboration on meeting backwards that are used and things like that. So I think it's just like whatever it is, make it clear where the handoff is. And so maybe it's not like marketing on the entire website because maybe they don't own those flows, but like there's this gray area. And I think the other big thing is sometimes the forms, like the literal forms that are used are built in your website. And sometimes they're built in the product. And I think that also drives a lot of it because it's who do you need to help you build these things. And if they're built into the product, then like the product you need to own that. But I don't think it should be, it shouldn't be to me like this. Like, let's not argue about it. Let's just like, we're trying to move this. And here's the things that marketing cent do. And here's the things that products are going to do. And here are the areas of overlap. But like, I don't think products should be in the business of like owning the whole website and all the top of level messaging and all of that stuff.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“On conversion also means lots of different things. There's like top of model conversion, getting on the website and like filling out some other form. There's like conversion once you're in the product becoming an active user or inviting people. So it's like, well, which part of conversion? Web conversion. I typically think of something that's owned by marketing because usually product doesn't want to own the website. Like I rarely early on, product will sometimes own the website because marketing wasn't there. But the website is something that's going to need to be updated like 5,000 times and it needs to be on like WebFlow, preferably at this point or VMS that's easy to update. And if it's like built into the code base, that's like, or it's on a headless CMS or it's not touchable in my marketing. That's a huge problem. When it comes to once they click the sign up button, who should be mostly involved in that process? I think, again, there needs to be, I think there's lots of ways to handle that. And I think if it's product that kind of has that skill set and the testing skill set.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Marketing is typically good at the communication piece of one to many. That's what they're good at. And so they are usually good, they should be good at figuring out all the channels to have a funnel to communicate with people. And product is really using product as a channel by which to communicate with customers, prospects, et cetera. So that's like one way of sort of thinking about the difference.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then we're going to Yeah. So I think the product led growth was a misnomer. I think people will do anything they can possibly do to not call marketing marketing. I think we always see this. And so I think that product-led growth really means not as much sales, which means product plus marketing. And so that's probably a hot take. But product-led growth is just another name for what we like. I mean, it's a product-led growth is a little different than like premium or self-serve reduced thing, but it's not you're being handheld by the product. You aren't being handheld by the sales team. So really to me, like it's, and you can have a sales assist with product-led growth as well. But typically what's more at odds in my mind is like product-led growth means you aren't going to have a huge sales team early on. It doesn't mean you're not going to have a huge marketing team early on. In fact, to me, it means you're going to have a bigger marketing team early on because you're not going to have those sales. Sales is not communicating with customers. So I think it comes back to like, what are these tools?”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think there's one way to structure it. It's highly dependent on the company overall. And I think you need both skill sets.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Needs to be ironed out or like consistent, or there needs to be tons of collaboration there. So however that is done, I don't really care what the team would look like. Lots of different companies have different versions of how they do this. But the idea is that experience needs to feel consistent and you need to have collaboration across people that have those skill sets and you need to have like a clear process for how that looks. And so it's just like getting that marketing sales hand off right in my opinion. It's like, how do you get the marketing to product handoff right? And if it means you have someone that owns onboarding, it's in a hybrid role, then great. If it means there's like a committee sort of situation with one person at the DRI, that's great too. So I think my answer is.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Experience or product experience, but they should be paired as soon as they can be with someone that also understands or that top of milepiece, or maybe that person isn't in a full-time growth role, but know who on the marketing team is going to work with them on these areas of crossover, like, you know, like onboarding or that first use experience and making sure that the signup flow from like filling out something on the website to getting in the product is really consistent because that area of like I'll call it like a handoff. We talk about like the marketing to sales handoff all the time on the go-to market side, but there's a marketing to product handoff and that's the handoff that's really important in PLG. And that feels weird to a user. Like it's two different teams inside of a company, but at that often, but if that feels weird to a user, like you're going to notice that that all of a sudden feels extremely disjoint or if I'm getting a bunch of product transactional emails while I'm getting a bunch of marketing dripping house. So that handoff or that experience.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“PLG, I think you want to have a marketer that is responsible for getting into the people, into the product. That's a marketing profile. That's using all these channels that's driving inbound. That's focused on web conversion, making sure your website converts. Like that's a marketing skill set because it's really likely you have to work with to get this done is really how I think about it. And like you have to work with the people that own the website, which is marketing for all of these sort of inbound stuff, you're working with other people on the marketing team. That piece is really a marketing piece. The product experiments and the product test, that's the person with a product skill set because they know how to work with other PM. They know how to work with engineers and marketers don't. And then there's these gray areas like the onboarding experience or like when you first get into the product. And that is like an area where there needs to be like a ton of collaboration. So my view is that like if you're going to have a growth PM, it's probably helpful for them to have PM.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was my brand marketer. They were kind of working on these larger sort of big that projects that's man across all of marketing.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of brand is you've heard it sort of like owned by the product designer at first or like working with a brand designer or if the marketer has skill set there can be owned by them as well. So it's a little murky at first, but eventually like on B2B teams, when I've grown teams class, you know, like 10, 15 people, I'll have a brand person that is working really closely with the designers and kind of like making sure that everything that we're producing on sort of like the content side of things is up to they're acting as sort of an editor there. They're making sure everything like ladders up to the overall story. So they're helping tell the story. They're helping make sure the design is right. And like, you know, in some instances, I'll have a brand person that's kind of working on these larger brand initiatives. Like we did a huge data study when I was at Carta and the person that kind of ran that whole initiative and the events and it was sort of like a separate initiative that had a lot of different”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To me, brand marketing is a combination or has some of the work that happens in bioproduct marketer and by a content and community marketer. But maybe they also are more influential on the design side of things. And so brand marketing is another one that means like 75 different things. Sometimes it means like you literally manage designers or you're like a creative producer and sometimes it means you're more doing work on like what are the stories that we're trying to tell and you're doing more of the content stuff. Sometimes it means I'm doing the positioning work. Sometimes it means I'm like working on sort of like, you know, the website or like branded paid stuff and like consumer. So it means a lot of things too. But usually the person that in B2B, the person that kind of owns the brand is the positioning story side of brand is owned by product marketing. And the design”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source