YouSaid · the spoken record

Emily Kramer

lines on the record: 83
first: 2022-09-11
most recent: 2022-09-11
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yes. Sorry. Yes, mostly if you can be advice. I think a lot of this holds, like I think the fuel engine stuff holds for B2C. I think the roles pretty much hold, but you might hear the word brand marketing thrown out a lot more in B2C, and that's more going to be talking about like the fuel stuff. And maybe that's going to be what they hire before they hire, say, like a product marketer, but it's kind of the same set of functions. But yeah, most of my experience with B2B and most of the startups I work with are B2B. But some of it holds.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We don't even have any idea what to say on the website because we're selling four different things. Like it just kind of hard to hire someone in that case.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like, you know, do I need one or two people here? And one is that, and so if you're a top down model sort of enterprise sale, you're probably going to have a couple salespeople before you hire marketing, but that might not be the case and sort of use more self-serve product like growth models. You just don't need the salesperson. So having the marketer helpful. So again, like the business model affects this a lot. But usually like the general rule of thumb is like if you had a marketer, what would they do? And like, you know, I often help people try to figure that out. What would they do? And would they, you know, if they stepped on the gas and did all this stuff really well, would you be able to handle all those people that came in? Is it even a good time to bring all those people in to your product? So if they like, you know, are they going to be held back by where your product is or where some of the discovery on exact business model is or things like that? And like that's the case. It's just like not a good money when they're kind of just like sitting on their hands like I can't spend any money on paid and I like don't have, you know, there.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You can do founders can do a fair amount of stuff and they can use some contractors. I think you need them earlier in product growth models because you're not going to hire a salesperson then. So it's more like thinking about go to market holistically and saying.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, stagewise, you know, you're looking at like some nice people at sea depending on their business, but usually it's in series A or you hire one sort of more junior person at seed or when you're coming into raising your series A and then you have two people right after your series A. But really it's like I think it's helpful to have some sort of semblance of product market fit. Like maybe it's not you're not 100% sure, but maybe you have definitely some successful customers. It's not like you know we're working with a design partner to build this out and we have, you know, we have a couple pilots. It's like marketing is really good at accelerating growth and sort of doing things at scale, sort of like one to many. So if you're still in the very like bespoke like founder-led sales, founder-led marketing, like I'm doing discovery with each of these potential customers and like, you know, have to modify my product for them. Like that kind of thing. Like you don't need one yet.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Just because they can't, they don't understand how all the marketing works together and they don't understand how the foundation, it's much different marketing something that already everybody knows what it is or everybody knows the brand, even if they don't know the product and they have a built-in customer base, then building something up from scratch is just a very different marketing motion. And you need to do a lot of things. Like you need to do a lot of things yourself. You need to be a doer. So you're really looking for, you know, like most roles or most, you know, lead of function roles at startups, like they need to be both strategic and sort of scrappy enough to get the work done. Like you're going to be doing it all. And in marketing, like you're going to be, you're often going to be the first marketer for a little while and you're going to be doing everything. And so there has to be some sign that you're going to be comfortable with that.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To startups, like usually the fail I see is they're like, here's someone great from Google. And I'm like, I'm sure they're great, but they're not great for this role. And that's the mistake I see all the time. Oh, we just fired our first marketer. I'm like, where did they work? They're like, oh, they only worked in Salesforce. I'm like, well, yeah.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like, so whether that's they joined us or in a burley and it did really well, or whether that's they had a stint at a later stage company and then, you know, earlyest in their career, they were a big company and they went to something smaller. Like, do they know what high quality sort of grade looks like? Doesn't always have to be like you don't always have to have been at a startup that everyone thinks of as like, oh, they're really great at marketing, but it is helpful. And there are some people that just have a really high quality bar and really understand what great marketing looks like, even if they haven't worked in those companies. But I like to say like has worked somewhere early enough that they could set strategy across all of marketing. And do they know what grade looked like? That's something I'm scanning for. I'm also scanning for like for your first marketer, like, you don't want to go out and see this mistake all the time. Like, you don't want to go out and hire someone super senior who's only worked at a public company. That's the wrong person. And often VCs or, you know, sort of lead investors that aren't in a certain niche, like they're going to, they're going to, when they refer candidates.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Gonna be hard to find, but I think I want to see that they've worked on a team that's early enough where they are not siloed into their specific role. Because what happens at leader stage companies or at public companies is when you're a product marketer, like you don't see what's going on in the rest of marketing at all. Like you have a very siloed view of it. Maybe you're like only working on product launches as a product marketer, which is not the positioning is already set. The audience research already done, like they haven't done any of those things, or like the channels are all built out. It's just different, right? I think that's the case in a lot of roles at startups. But like, you know, building it from scratch is different. So that doesn't mean that if you're a series A company hiring your first marketer that you need to hire someone that's worked at a series A company, but it usually means you're hiring someone that's worked at least at like a growth stage company where they have exposure to a bunch of areas of marketing. Also looking for have they seen what grade looks?”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With those channels, and maybe they need to work with contractors on some of those things. And it's just because product marketers usually also, that product marketer needs to know how to write. Like all marketers shed some wording knowledge in writing, but they need to know how to write. They are the copywriter for a long time, like test that they can write, make sure they can write, both short form and long form. They're not going to be necessarily as good at writing as, say, a content person, but like they need to be able to write. And yeah, product marketers just tend to have that ability to write and that ability to understand what channels they can use to reach their audience. So they're in the middle. So often that's the case. But I mean, sometimes I find that I'm recommending hiring that growth person first because they maybe already have a couple of really great contractors and they have a couple of really great pieces of content that can just be like gifts that keep on giving if they keep distributing them and refurposing them.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, it's highly dependent on, again, like the business model, what you need more of, what you already have in place, what's going on. But the most common archetype that I say you want to hire is a product marketer, even though I joke that everyone's like sending you a product marketer.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Probably more top of want to learn growth marketing is probably more full funnel at its simplest form, but it's definitely different there. In a product-led growth business, the growth marketer and the product growth sort of role or the hybrid growth role from kinds that can be the same person depending on the skill set. But typically the difference would be that the growth marketer has more, is doing more on the top of funnel sort of in-down side and the product growth person is doing more like once they actually get into the product, but can be collaborating with that growth marketer. So it can be the same person in extremely data driven sort of person that kind of has the working knowledge of both marketing and product stuff. It can be one person in this early stage PLG companies. But I think typically, and I'm sure you've seen that, like, you know, at larger companies as growth can get bigger, you're going to have some people that come from more of that marketing perspective and you're going to have some people that come from more of that product perspective. But the question is, is there ever one person that does?”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In top down sales businesses, it is 100% different. A growth person typically probably called a demand gen person. There's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down on what's the difference between growth marketing. and”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Marketing growth. marketing and you want them to be proficient in another one the second T but you want them to be able to set strategy and know how to hire contractors across all of them and so the promised land of hiring a first marketer they're they're a pie shape marketer and so then you could hire a content and product marketing pie shape marketer product marketing growth pie shape marketer but it's like what are those two spikes and what's the one that you're going to worry less about that they need to work knowledge of the last thing i'll say on the pie piece is that really hard to find someone that content marketer that's also really good at growth like that pie shape marketer exists a lot less frequently maybe it's someone who's like really amazing at content distribution or like really amazing at FDO but they don't really exist because the content side is like very like one side of the brain and the the growth data stuff is like a whole other side of the brain and it just you don't find those people very often so yeah you're usually looking for that”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then from there, what I tell people is when you're hiring your first marketer and probably even your first several marketers, you're more want to hire generalist and specialist. This is probably true for can you wearly stand startup, but specialists are great to hire it. It's great to hire contractors that are specialists, like the FEO contractor, even the contractor who can write, like the marketing ops contractor, but you want someone who's pretty much a generalist. And the way I describe that within marketing is usually you hear, oh, like hire a T-shaped person that bites in one area and has like working knowledge and breadth across the crop, all of them. But I use this thing that I made up, which is you want to hire pie-shaped marketers and not pie like dessert, but pie like 3.14, where the pie symbol has two vertical lines. So like a T, but it has an extra line. And it's because you want the first marketer to be an expert in one of those three areas that I mentioned, product marketing content.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the past, they have a general understanding of sort of channel strategy and what channels do you at what time and that sort of end and stuff. But product marketers aren't really specialists in writing and producing content. They're not specialists in building out marketing opts or doing FEO. They're definitely more of the generalist function. And so sometimes that's a great answer. You need a product marketer, but sometimes you need someone that's scrappier and different in different areas. Another one of my frameworks is we start with do we need to see an engine? Like what are the biggest problems? What are the biggest things that if you did, you would drive growth? And then we talk about sort of the three typical sub functions that you would hire, which would be content, community, mom's type person, a growth, demand engine type person. And a product marketer. And we kind of talk about what those three things mean and kind of align based on what you're saying, based on the fuel engine thing, probably this type of person.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All the marketers or all the product marketers that we were interviewing was just what's product marketing. And that's the scariest question you can ask a product marketer. Like it's like no scarier question for a product marketer than, hey, what's a product marketer? They're like, oh shit, I have no idea my job. It's me. I'm a product marketer. But really, like a product marketer, they understand the product. They understand the audience. And they understand the market in which you're operating. And from there, they can figure out how to communicate with your audience about the right things at the right time. So they're kind of like laying groundwork. And then they're also doing some work too. They're also doing a lot of like the copywriting and the actual messaging and handling sort of launches and sometimes writing copy for things like emails and helping set the content strategy and things like that. And people think they need product marketers. One, because it's like a fake people say, but two, because product marketers tend to shadow the line between fuel and engine. They're more on the fuel side, but particularly they've done a lot of work.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm like, well, you know, adventure problem, this isn't going to scale. So it's just these basic things. Like, are you doing these things or not? And, you know, sometimes founders are really great at making the original sort of content and writing the early positioning. I know that that's suited to that. And they just need someone to help them get that step out. And that's when they need an engine person. So yeah, so that's basically how you figure it out. And normally when you ask vendors that question, they like get it pretty quickly. They're like, okay, I think this is my problem. Like I can kind of identify it. And then it's like, okay, from here, well, what exactly do you need and what exact type of marketer do you need? And that's where everyone's answer is always like, I think I heard from investors or I've been hearing from other founders that I really need a product marketer. And the question is, well, what do you think a product marketer is? And you get a different answer every time. In fact, when I was at Asana, our COO, any his question that he liked to ask.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, it's kind of simple. Like you can just ask, you know, what are your top performing pieces of content or what's the top performing page on your website or things of that nature? Or who is your product for? Why is it better? What are the benefits? How does it compare to competitors? If you don't have an answer for those questions, you don't have top performing content and you don't know sort of your positioning and all that stuff. You got to fuel problem here. Oh, you wrote this really great piece of content I saw it on your website. How are you distributing that? What are you doing? And they're like, oh, I shared it on social, but it didn't really go anywhere. You got an engine problem. Or if I said,”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Executing on ads or things like that, you have some working knowledge of the ops work and the reporting work because you have to be optimizing. I guess admin page is also engine.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Things that I value in that way. The engine side is what people tend to call like marketing growth or demand gen or things of that nature. That's really the distribution channels. The email copy itself is fuel, but how you've set up the email and the segmentation you've used and the rules for that drip email, like that's the engine. You know, the SEO content fuel, but like your SEO sort of like keyword list or the technical SEO and that kind of stuff is sort of engine social media, you got to have good fuel, but you also have to like nail it right like exactly what channels you're using and all that stuff. So a lot of things have both sides of it. So most projects or activities or initiatives have some fuel and some engine. I also consider marketing ops work like the setup of like HubSpot or this you might be using. Like that's engine. It's like, you know, really like constructing the engine, but I kind of put it in that bucket because people who are usually go to executing on email or”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, like, yeah, that's some of the product marketing stuff. So product marketing is this weird thing, and we'll talk about it that sits kind of in the middle. But yes, product marketing, doing any positioning, again, like the web copy, which is sort of the first manifestation of your positioning and messaging, or it should be. It should be sort of the source of truth for all of that. But yeah, you're positioning your messaging the words, the words and things that you're creating. That's the fuel.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or the podcast. It's basically content, but also like to include some of the copy. And I think people have this limited view of contents where they think blog posts and blog posts are one part of content. Like content should be tools, resources, templates, like calculators, those kinds of things do better in all the cases.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so when I think about fuel and engine and what goes on either side, it's important to recognize that some things are fuel and engine, some things are fuel or engine, and some things are both fuel and engine. Let me start with an example of something that's fuel and engine. If done well, your community, like let's just take, for instance, let's keep it simple because community needs 75 things. If you have a Slack community, that should be fuel end engine. You have people creating content in there that maybe you can then use in other areas. Like you do this well. Like you take, you know, what's going on in your community and you do like your community wisdom parts of your new letter. So you're using that as fuel, but it's also an engine because you have people in your audience that you can distribute out content to. So there's some examples like that, but to go back to the question of what's fuel and which engine coal is like the copy on your website, it's the blog post that you have. It's the templates that you've created. It's the video recordings of the webinar.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“about your product or it has some innate virality and you're just not capturing enough of that. So I kind of like decode what's going to help the most right now. And then ideally, you get someone, so back to people in engine first.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're all getting the balance of fuel and engine right, but I like to start from like what do you think is going to help most? And what skill set does your team not have? And typically if a team is like sales driven top down, they might have, you know, an SDR or at least in a year or two at this time. Usually that comes first in top down. And so the SDRs are kind of an engine. They're an imperfect engine. Outbound shouldn't be the only thing you're doing. And if they're just reaching out and asking people to schedule meetings, they might not be that affected. But you have a little engine going on. So maybe now you need some fuel first on the other side of it. If you're a product-led growth or bottom up, like you might have a situation where just nothing's optimized. Like your website's conversion rates are terrible. People are dropping out of the funnel all over the place. And you really need someone who can build up these like lifecycle email touches, work in products instead of work with a product growth person as well. And you really just like need more engine because people are already finding out.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Goal is like all the things that you're creating. I mean, this should be obvious, but it's the content, it's the words, it's the design in some regard, all the things you're making, all the things that are going to add value. An engine is how you get it out to the right people and all the tracking of that and sort of the ops work I put under engine. You see, we don't need an engine. And the question is, where do you have the biggest challenge right now or where do you think if you did more, you would grow faster? Is it on fuel side or on the engine side? Typically, like if you just think about it logically, like you kind of need you need the fuel first. And sometimes what I see is people just build an engine first and they're like, why isn't this working? We're sending so many compound emails. And it's like, well, you don't have anything valuable to put in those. You have no fuel. So this isn't working. Or you see the flip side where they're making a whole bunch of things. They're writing a bunch of blog posts. They're making a bunch of content. And they're like, this content doesn't work. It's like, well, have you tried distributing it? Because if you're not distributing that and getting mileage out of it, it's a waste of time. So this is a big problem in the marketing.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What marketing does in a big way. And by business model, I mean more like are you doing top down sales or are you selling to enterprise? Are you doing bottom up product-led growth or have a free version or whatever it is? Those types of things manner a lot because the set of marketing activities is just wildly different, which I'm sure we'll go into. So to kind of summarize here, what I tell founders is I usually start when I talk to founders about who you need to hire in marketing because usually the question is I think I need a marketer who do I hire and like great question let's try to nail this down because there isn't one answer. It very much depends. There's usually some common archetypes, but the first thing I say is that like forget all the sub functions that you've heard about in marketing. Forget the product marketing, content marketing, partner demand gen, growth, like forget all of it. And just think of marketing as you need fuel and you need an engine.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Someone else doing the marketing hiring for the first person. You don't know what you're going to be doing in marketing. Like, you don't know where your big levers are going to be. You don't know what's going to work. And so you hire a marketer thinking, you know, they're like smart. They've done this before. But really, they haven't done the thing that you need to do before. So I see that especially with business model where I think having the right, the same business model experience is almost more important than having like industry experience or experience with that audience. And I think often people are like, I need someone who's, you know, marketed to HR or marketed to, you know, construction or like that specific. And my response is you're going to really narrow your set of people with that. And also, it doesn't matter as much because great marketers learn the audience and learn the product quickly. And sometimes that fresh set of eyes is helpful and you have other experts and house on the audience. But the business model really differs.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and just to add to that, it's even hard for marketers to hire other marketers. Like, it's even confusing for marketers to know where they fit in. If they haven't been hired yet exactly what world they should be looking at or exactly who else they should be hiring on the team. So while it's very confusing for founders and people who haven't kind of been in a larger marketing team to understand all the different functions, like also confusing for marketers. And I think that's just because there's so many different sub functions of marketing and there's so many different things that marketers could do. And there's such a range of being a deep specialist. Like you have people that are just deep SEO specialists or deep paid search specialists or writers and like they love to write and they write long form content and that's definitely part of what marketing does, but it's a specialty for sure. And then you have people that are just very much generalists and can handle all areas of marketing. So a couple of mistakes that I see is just like hiring people that don't cover the area that you need most as a startup. And that kind of comes for two reasons. One is like you don't know as a founder.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah, sorry about that. My newsletter is M the letter is MKT1.substack.com. And my fund is market one capital. You can pretty much find most of these things on mkt1.co, links to all the different various things that I'm doing so I can remember because there's lots of lots of iron in the fire. So got to keep the website up to date so I don't lose track of all the things you have going on. It's also a job board and a bunch of other things. You have more things going on, but I have a number of the same sort of set of things.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the same of my career has been building out marketing teams at B2B startups. So early in my career as an advertising, I went to business school, but after that, I started doing the startup thing and I was at TicketFly. I was like the second marketer. And then I went to Asana where I was the first marketer when they were about 30, 35 people and built up that team and led the team for just under four years. And then I went to a small seed funding company, helped them raise their A and eventually went to Carta, which was about 300 people when I joined-ish, give or take, but didn't have a marketing function at the time. So built that function up from scratch, much like Asana, but at a very different stage in the company's life cycle. And then since then, I've been advising and investing full-time and now have a small fund where we invest in early stage B2B and help them build out marketing. So yeah, building marketing, that's what I do.”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Forget the product marketing and content marketing partner, demand gen, growth, like forget all of it, and just think of marketing as you need fuel and you need an engine. And the goal is like all the things that you're creating. I mean, this should be obvious, but it's the content, it's the word, it's the design in some regard, all the things that you're making, all the things that are going to add value. An engine is how you get it out to the right people and all of the tracking of that and sort of the ops work I put under engine. You need to feel needed an engine. And the question is, where do you have the biggest challenge right now or where do you think if you did more, you would grow faster? Is it on fuel side or on the engine side?”
2022-09-11 · Lenny's Podcast · How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source