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Gabor Maté

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2022-11-07
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2022-11-07
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  1. Over my life. Exactly, which also means not letting, you know, you don't use trauma, you don't wear trauma as a badge, you know, or you don't use it as a get out of jail pass in a game of monopoly. I can't be any other way.

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  2. Gradually move towards authenticity. They may not like it. It's not what they wanted from you. You're going to find out who your friends are. You're really going to find because your real friends will say, oh, I'm so happy for you. We're waiting for this. Other fans will say, it's not what I signed up for Question is you still have to decide. As an infant, as a young child, I had no agency In the choice of authenticity and attachment. No, I do. Which one do you want to go with? What is the cost of being authentic? I can't make that decision for anybody else. Nobody can make that decision for anybody else. But most people will find that choosing authenticity has benefits way beyond whatever they might lose. That's what I find.

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  3. Well, there is that risk, but here's the issue. As a child, you had no choice but to go for acceptance and being approved of and being received under any conditions, no matter what you had to give up of your authenticity, you had to give up your authenticity. You had no choice in the matter. At a certain point as adults, we learn that this lack of authenticity, this disconnection from ourselves, this separation from our gut feelings, Costing us. It's costing us in terms of our physical health, our peace of mind, our relationship, our mental health and so on. You'll never be as vulnerable again as you were when you were a child. As dependent, resourceless. No, it's true that if you develop the whole set of relationships based on your authentic, inauthentic persona, some people In your life may not like it if you

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  4. Much more than a way for us to heal. It's actually who we are. Like what you're really asking is why does it important for a creature to be true to its own nature? That's what we're meant to do. We're meant to be here as ourselves. And when we're not ourselves, because we had to abandon ourselves or betray ourselves, disconnect from ourselves in order to survive. We lost connections with our essence. How does it feel to a successful CEO and more than realizing your financial dreams, but to be a workaholic and not to be available to yourself in areas of your life that really matter to you. As opposed to being honest about your stuff, sharing it with other people, dropping the veil, dropping the... To answer your question, what does it feel like? I mean, can you sense the difference in your body

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  5. Well, that would be a matter of some form of work. People meditate often deal with that issue through the meditation. Not always. Certainly therapy. By recognizing also that what you doing to get the sense of what doesn't really do it for you, just by getting honest about it, you know? So there's all kinds of ways, but the first step is the recognition.

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  6. Well, like in your case. Gives me a sense of worth. Well, okay, I'll say to you, if you come to me, because you say, like I'm working, like it's causing some harm in my life, it's keeping me from intimate relationships. It makes me stressed and tired, whatever it is. The first thing I would ask you for you is what is it doing for you? And you say a sense of worth. And I'd say, you know what? You deserve to have a sense of birth. I totally understand why you'd want to. Engage in an activity that gives it to you. Given that it's causing you harm, let's look at why you don't have a sense of worth and how else you might develop it that isn't harmful to you. But you start with what's right about it. What are you looking for? And what you're looking for is always valid.

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  7. All that together. And so And that's emotionally painful. Like, what's it feel like to be not to have a sense of word? That's painful. And so that's why my mantra is don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain. And if you understand why the pain, you have to look at that person's life.

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  8. Yeah, that's a good thing. But the real question is, Why did you ever get the idea that you didn't have the worth? Why did I get the idea that I didn't have the worth? That's where trauma comes from.

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  9. We're seeking relief from a certain mental state. I just gave you a definition of addiction. So I think, I don't know what addictions you've had or haven't. But what did that do for you? Temporarily. It gave you something

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  10. Well, or it can be an addiction Can also be sacred, it can also be fulfilling and a manifestation of your creative urges. So it's not the... But strange to say, Not that I recommend it, but it's possible even to use heroin in a non addictive way. I don't personally get it and I would never want to, but addiction is never in the behavior itself. It's in your relationship to the behavior. So if the particular activity gives you temporary relief or pleasure and therefore you crave it, but it causes harm in the long term and you can't give it up, you go on addiction and I don't care what the activity is, could be drugs and all the other things that we mentioned. And it employs the same brain circus, by the way. The workaholic is after the same brain chemical that the cocaine addict is after. Dopamine, you know, and people can be even addicted. Like adrenaline, the so-called adrenaline junkies, there's such a thing. So almost anything can be addictive if it serves the purpose of temporarily easing some distress, but causing harm in the long term.

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  11. That's true to which I have two answers. One is it's true, it's painful. Because all the pain you didn't want to feel, and you've been running away from through your compensatory behaviors like your addictions, are nothing but an attempt to escape from pain. That's all they are. They're not a disease. They're not genetic, whatever it is. Addictions are very simply an attempt to escape pain, which create more pain. But that's what they are. And so we get addicted to work, to sex, to pornography, to gambling, to the internet, to shopping, to eating, to power.

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  12. Again, it's not like a panacea or for everyone, but certainly it's a helpful modality for a lot of people. So some people may actually benefit from taking pharmaceutical medications if their situation is dire enough, but not as the final answer, but as a way of getting respite that allowed them to go to work on the real issues that caused them to be depressed or anxious or tuning out. So any and all of these things.

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  13. Nature, therapy of all kinds, bodywork of all kinds, like somatic experiencing or craniose treatments or even massage therapy. It's incredible what can be revealed just through body work like that, then all kinds of forms of therapy, the ones I teach, the ones other people teach, journaling, certain exercises in this book that we recommend, like just ask yourself where you have trouble saying no in life to things you don't really want to do and working not through on a regular basis. So there's lots of ways once you open the door, you know, A chapter on psychedelics here, which is a.

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  14. I mean, all any. But even when you ask how you go about it, what is the it? Well, for you to say how to go about it, you already must have some degree of awareness. If you didn't, you wouldn't even be asking the question. So that's the very first step of realizing that there's something here to work on, there's something here to work through. It does not need to be the way it is. That already is the biggest step. The Buddha said to recognize the source of your suffering is the first step towards relieving the suffering. So as soon as you ask how you go about it, you've already taken a huge step. Because a lot of people don't even know that there's an it. They just think this is a reality, that this is life. So realizing that this it doesn't have to be the way it is, that's already a huge step. No, beyond that. Yoga, meditation.

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  15. If we realize that this puppet master is just a desperate little person trying to get you to survive, the only way he, she, they knew how when they were small, if you make friends with it. But we believe it of its duties. Thanks very much, but I can handle it now. It eventually becomes a friend rather than sort of our master.

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  16. That doesn't work very well, pushing against it, because they're still reactive. You're still not in charge. You're just in automatic resistance mode to something. There's no freedom in that either. So, yeah. But awareness that you mentioned is huge because once you're aware that there's this, see, the thing about these things may not fray right away Won't you wear that? This reaction of It's not about what's going on right now. There's something old being activated here. That awareness alone weakens, it slackens the strings a bit. No, they no longer is taught. They no longer is automatically. Capable of pulling on you. So it does have to begin with awareness of them. Ultimately,

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  17. So you remember what Pinocchio says at the end when you finally becomes a real boy? How foolish I was when I was a puppet. And to the extent that we're being activated by these. Unconscious strings that are traumas pulling behind the scenes and reacting in our lives and we think we're autonomous free beings but we're actually being controlled by something in the past that we haven't worked out we're puppets we're actually puppets and there's not much freedom in that there's no freedom in it at all So, I mean, I suppose the opposite of trauma, if you want to revisit that question, is liberation.

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  18. That's a really good analogy. The trauma really is like a puppet master behind the scenes and the unconscious pulling your strings and you're not aware of it. Do you remember Pinocchio?

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  19. Awareness that we wish we had put into this book, but we didn't, not into this book. In this book, I put forays and I left that awareness, and that was an omission on my part. Yeah, I was. I'm sorry, but it was.

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  20. Natural emotions. Why do we push them down? Because we have to survive. So that person, I don't know, I can't prognosticate what's going to happen to them. But if they don't work it out in general, they're at risk for some kind of mental or physical manifestation. That's my experience.

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  21. That's what I meant that they're sitting on this Creator of volcanic creator of anger, which sometimes bursts out of them. So their demeanor is like a really... Developed, suppressed way of handling rage which rage when they were children had they expressed would have got them into more trouble. So suppressing it, repressing it. Their survival, it's all about survival, you see. So it became their survival mechanism. That person, as long as they keep it that way, they're... at risk. risk for mental health diagnosis like depression. What is depression? It means you're pushing something down. That's what it means what to be pushed down

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  22. Defense against reality, and it's a defense against being judged. Well, that says something about my childhood. Nobody's born a liar. As we say in this book, there are congenial liars, but there are no congenital liars. No one day old baby tells any lies. No one-day old baby pretends anything. If we end up pretending in any way at all to the extent that we do, it's because we had to learn that's what we must do to survive.

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  23. absolutely the German philosopher, writer Nietzsche, Fiedrich Nietzsche said, people lie their way over reality who have been hurt by reality. And so I've lied, you know, like when I had my shopping addiction, I relied every day to my wife And even afterwards, when she stopped trying to change my behavior. Said, just tell me If you're going to spend another $1,000 on music, just tell me. I was so ashamed of it. And so the lying became like a A way of survival for me

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  24. He couldn't stand it, that there weren't as many people there as came to Barack Obama's inauguration. There were a much smaller number of people there. He created this reality where many more people came to his inauguration. Now, what age behavior is that Four years old when more kids came to his party than my party, that can't be true. But that's Donald's way of dealing with reality. It's not a moral failing as such. That's how you survived. and the survival mechanisms then get to form our personalities. And again, in this world, sometimes they pay off. In certain ways

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  25. Donald Trump learned that the way to survive is to be aggressive and harsh and competitive and to get the other before they get to you, which is a faithful reproduction of his early childhood experiences. So for him, these were not choices so much as survival. Techniques and When they talk about his. I don't know when he's lying or when he's not, but my sense is that often he actually believes what he's saying. And actually he's a biographer or the person who wrote his letters. cause the autobiographical. This writer says that he's never met anybody who's so capable of believing something that's not true to be true if he wants it to be true. That's the mark of a traumatized child. A denial of reality. It is an inauguration. There was a certain number of people that came to the

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  26. and they were both responses to the same you can never say it's exactly the same for two kids but there was a toxic home environment one ends up dead as an alcoholic the other ends up at the pinnacle of power And when I look at them both, These dysfunction there, significant dysfunction there.

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  27. As much as said in his autobiography that the world is a horrible place, a doggy dog place where everybody is after you, everybody wants your wife and your house and your wealth, and this is your friends. Never mind your enemies. That's the world he lives in. Now that world that he lives in reflects his childhood home. He developed that world you. He came to it honestly, you might say. Because that's the world that he lived in. And he gets to be really successful in this crazy world, financially, although people question Bosnia's biggest success as he says he was, but he certainly was successful politically if by success you mean the attainment of power. His brother, on the other hand, Mary Trum's father, Trump's niece's father, drank himself to death

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  28. Without asking some questions, or I can give you the example of a Donald Trump who had a really traumatic childhood. I mean, his father was, as described by his psychologist niece, Mary Trump, Trump's father, who is Mary's grandfather, was a psychopath and who really demeaned and harshly treated their children. So Trump decides unconsciously that, by the way, I'm not talking about his policies here. This is not a political debate. And in the book, I point out that his opponent was also traumatized. Hillary Clinton said, this is an ecumenical view of trauma and politics. I'm not choosing sides. I'm just saying that you can see his trauma. And every moment he opens his mouth. His grandiosities need to make himself bigger, more powerful, aggressive.

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  29. Well, now look, so the two examples you gave That really peaceful person may be really peaceful for genuinely good reasons, such as they found the milk of human love flowing through their veins and they've had some spiritual reconciliation with the world, where they may have genuinely learned compassion for themselves and others. But they could also be very nice and peaceful because they're suppressing their healthy anger. Because they're actually sitting on their rage unconsciously, which is going to show up in the form of some kind of health manifestation, I guarantee you later on. So you can't tell from the outside

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  30. So, what I'm saying is that when these needs are not for the unconditional loving attachment relationship, when those needs are frustrated, children are also hurt. And I call that trauma as well, because it shows up later in life as the impact of painful wounds. Trauma in this society for all kinds of reasons is far more common than we imagine.

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  31. I mean, that's obvious in the physical sense. If a child doesn't get proper nutrition, their body will suffer. Their mind will suffer. We're also creatures with emotional needs as important as our physical needs. So when the child's emotional needs are not met, that child is wounded. And that's what we call small tea trauma, which is not the big ticket events such as I described, but just the child's need to be loved unconditionally, to be held when distressed, to be responded to, to be seen, to be heard, to be allowed their full range of emotion without them being stamped on in the name of so-called discipline. The right to play creatively, spontaneously, out there in nature, not with these damn digital gadgets that subvert and hijack the child's imagination. But spontaneously, that's essential for brain development.

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  32. All the known factors such as physical, sexual, or emotional abuse, spanking by the way has now been shown to be as traumatic as harsher forms of physical abuse, spanking which is still recommended by so called experts who should be named remain unnamed for the moment the death of a parent, violence in a family, parental violence against each other, a parent being jailed, a parent being mentally ill. Did I say apparently being addicted? A rancor's divorce. These are the identified big traumas, big T traumas. No, not to mention poverty, not to mention extreme inequality, war and so on. If you remember that trauma is not what happens to you, but what happens inside you? the wound. People can be wounded not just by bad things happening to them, but small children can be wounded. In loving families. They don't get their needs met.

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  33. And that gave her a sense of deficiency, a sense of self that I'm just not good enough, that I don't belong, and so on. There's those obvious traumas or the obvious trauma of being sexually abused. So men who are sexually abused according to Canadian study have tripled the rate of heart attacks at adults. And all kinds of physiological reasons. But that should be the case. So there's those... Self evident big tea drums that we call big tea trauma, T with a capital T, trauma with a capital T. There's a certain percentage of the population, much larger than we think, subject to that. If you include...

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  34. It depends on how you understand trauma. So if we understand trauma, it's only the really terrible things that happen to people, which do happen to people. You know, in the book I talked about, a British friend of mine living in Canada, they are a yoga teacher and a meditation teacher and a psychologist and an artist, actually. And they grew up in some orphanage here in Britain where they were racially taunted every morning. Words that are in the book by your permission, which I'm not going to cite here publicly.

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  35. Scottish shoe is rigid, it's not flexible, so we lose kind of response flexibility. So when something happens, we tend to react in typical stereotypical, predictable, dysfunctional ways because of the rigidity. And scar tissue doesn't grow like healthy flesh. So people are traumatized tend to be stuck in emotional states that characterize Their development when they were traumatized. So when somebody says to you, don't be such a baby, it doesn't sound very pleasant, but there's some truth to it. It means that you're probably reacting according to lines of some wound that you sustained as an infant. And now you're reacting as if that wound was happening all over again. This is what one of my friends in the trauma world, Peter Levine calls the tyranny of the past. So something happens in the present and we react.

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  36. or the belief that I'm not, then decades later, if anything reminds me of that, it hurts as much as it did when I originally incurred the wound. So in one sense, trauma is an unhealed wound that touched, we get triggered. That's what triggering means, by the way. Some old wound gets activated or touched. And the other thing that happens to wounds is that they scar over. And scar the shoe has certain characteristics. It's thick. It has no nerve ending, so there's no feeling in it. So people traumatize, disconnected from their feelings.

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  37. I define it very specifically. It's not something bad that happens to you. I went to this movie last night and I was traumatized. No, you weren't. You were just sad or you had some emotional pain, but you weren't traumatized. Trauma means a wound. That's the literal meaning of the word. It's a Greek word for wounding. So trauma is a psychological wound that you sustain. And it behaves like a wound. So on the one hand, A wound, if it's very raw, if you touch it, it just really hurts. So if I have a wound around not being wanted.

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  38. How stressed our parents are, how they reacted to our own stress as infants. That has everything to do with how our brains handle stress later on. So, some people just don't handle stress very well. They don't handle the frustration very well. You should have seen me this morning at the hotel when the swimming pool didn't open in time. But I was a lot better than I might have been years ago. But yeah, our stress responses are very much programmed by our early developmental experiences.

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  39. Changed the genetic functioning, not the genes. The genetic functioning. This is called epigenetics, how genes are turned on and off by the environment. And then Nosemother and those rats who are groomed well as infants, doesn't matter what the original mother was, but those rats were groomed well, they went on to groom their infants in exactly the way they had been groomed. So this is how we pass on our parenting stuff from one generation to the next. Both behaviorally, but also through the turning on or off of certain genes

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  40. And what they found out in the brains of those adult rats who had been groomed one way or the other as infants, the stress apparatus was different, certain receptors for the stress hormones. So one of them could call themselves more easily than the other. What was interesting is you might say, Well, so what? That's genetic, the calmer mothers passed on their genes to the infants. No, they didn't. Because if you took the infants of mothers who groomed beautifully and put them with mothers who didn't, and conversely, you took the infants rats of mothers who didn't groom so well, but you put them with mothers who did. It changed the brain for the adult.

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  41. Yeah, those are interesting study. It was done in Canada at McGill University, I think maybe something in the last 20 years, early 2000s, I think. And they looked at her mother rats, interacted with their infants, the newborns. And there's this process called grooming in which the mother rat licks the infant on the perineal or perianal area, you know, in the genitalia. This is shortly after birth. These mother rats, you start licking their infants. Some of the rest did it in a more efficient and caring kind of way than other mother rats. Those that had the better kind of carrying, the better kind of grooming, grow to be calmer and responded to stress in more functional ways than those little rats. had not been given that same kind of efficient and quite as caring grooming.

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  42. Because what would happen if you went to a physician and you presented with your symptom and they'd say, okay, look, we'll give you such and such medication to deal with your symptoms and then let's look at your life in the context that you live in and see how the stresses that you may be taking on, the traumas you may be carrying might be affecting the physiology of your body. No, they don't have to be all traumatists to do that. They just have to raise the question. And then to begin the inquiry, that'll make a huge change to that person's life and to their disease process.

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  43. What I'm saying is that this way of looking at what we call disease is the process is so much more accurate scientifically, actually, and understanding the mind, body, unity. And then naturally when people traumatized, that has a huge impact on their physiology, their psychological trauma has a huge impact on their physiology. It's just science, but it's science that's not taught to medical teaching doctors. It's just for some strange reason. The average physician never hears a single lecturer about, say, trauma and his relationship to illness, and yet the studies internationally, thousands of them. Showing those relationships. So there's this strange gap between science and medical practice. But it would change medical practice for the better.

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  44. Steadily inflammation. What are steroids? They are stress hormones. And you would think that as physicians, we would ask ourselves, gosh, retreating everything with stress hormones, the stress maybe has something to do with this condition. Now when you look at the scientific literature, yes, yes, yes, then yes. So there's a great Canadian physician actually knighted by Queen Victoria, one of the great medical teachers of all kinds, Sir William Osler. And he said in 1890 that rumadistritis is a stress-driven disease. The French neurologist Jean Martin Charcot, who first described multiple sclerosis, he said, this is a stress-driven condition. And since then, there's been so much research.

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  45. How do we treat most conditions in medicine, by the way? Inflammations. If you go to a dermatologist with infanamed skin, if you go to a rheumatologist with inflamed joints, if you go to a gastroenterologist with inflamed intestines, if you go to a respiratorist with inflamed lungs, if you go to a neurologist with inflamed nervous system, as in multiple sclerosis, they're going to give you steroids.

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  46. Well, there's a whole new science that studies those relationships. It's called psychoneuraminology, which studies the interlinked unity of the emotional apparatus of our brain and body with the immune system, with our nervous system, and with the hormonal apparatus. I mean, it's just so obvious. I could change your hormonal state in the fifth second right now without touching you just by screaming at you and threatening you. That would necessarily create a change. I mean, it's just clear that our emotions are inseparable. And the other funny thing is, well, several funny things.

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  47. If I say it's the thing that happens to you, then that thing has got a life of its own. And that's why most doctors see it. They see somebody at rheumatoid arthritis. They say, okay, this is the kind you've got. This is what's going to happen. This is the only thing we can do is to mitigate the symptoms. I find that's not true. I find that the rheumatoid, by the way, not just I find it, the science finds it. The rheumatoid arthritis is very much related to stress and trauma. And the more stress there is, the more likely it is to flare up. And if people deal with that stress, if they know how to prevent it, their illness abates. Means that it's not a thing that's separate, it's a process that happens inside them. This is a subtle concept. I'm wondering if I'm explaining it clearly.

    2022-11-07 · The Diary of a CEO · Gabor Mate: The Childhood Lie That’s Ruining All Of Our Lives · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  48. Organismic Therefore, when the immune system turns against the body as it does in rheumatoid arthritis, the immune system actually attacks the body. Is that a thing that's got a life of its own, or is it a process that's happening inside that person because of certain aspects of their lives?

    2022-11-07 · The Diary of a CEO · Gabor Mate: The Childhood Lie That’s Ruining All Of Our Lives · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  49. Nothing wrong with that statement on the face of it, but there's an assumption there. The assumption is that there's this thing called rheumatoid arthritis and this person called me. And this person has this thing. No. You know, the example I often give, here's my cell phone. I'm holding it in my hand. I have a cell phone. It's not part of me. This is nothing about me. It's a discrete object. Its nature doesn't depend on my nature. Nothing. Is that true, but rheumatoid arthritis, or is it more true to say, as I found out, that this is a condition that shows up in people with certain life experiences and certain ways of functioning in the world, and that because of the science documented unity of mind and body and the impossibility of separating the activity or emotional apparatus from seeing our immune system because it's all one

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  50. Of people with mental illness diagnosis, there's nothing diagnostic about the brain scans. It's not like I can take an x-ray of a lung and say that this lung has got what we call consolidation or fluid indicating inflammation. There's nothing like that in mental diagnosis. There's no blood test you can do and so on. So illness is a model. I mean, it might somebody depressed. Even suicidal, perhaps, and then might need pharmacological intervention, which would really save their lives. That may be true And in that sense, you may say that they're ill, as long as we realize that this is a construct that we're applying here, but that there's no actual measurement of that that's at all similar to what we call physical disease. But even in physical disease, we make certain assumptions. For example, somebody has rheumatoid arthritis. No.

    2022-11-07 · The Diary of a CEO · Gabor Mate: The Childhood Lie That’s Ruining All Of Our Lives · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT