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Isabel Behncke

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2022-06-01
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2022-06-01
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  1. “For being drawn to fermentation in the first place. Think about that. I think the answer of that is play, because play is about the machinery for a kind of biological excitement and intensity seeking. And so the overlap of abuse, substance abuse, but also creativity and riskaking, I think a lot of this reward mechanisms are linked. And this is a huge topic and it's complicated because we go both on the light side and the dark side of things like creativity, which should not be spoken lightly. But let me just leave that maybe for the next time.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. “Thank you, Tim. Two things. One, a comment on the Instagram and Twitter. It's basically, I love feedback because I think nature evolves through feedback. I'm not very big on Twitter. I think I'm being publishing more in Instagram, mainly through a form of play because I discovered for myself that taking pictures is fun. So they're not necessarily great, but it's a way of playing. Anyway, if anyone wants to kind of interact there, and I welcome the good, the bad and the ugly. So that's fun for me. I love to learn. And then the second point was in relation to your comment about the drunken monkey hypothesis. I do think it's a partial explanation because, as you will know by now, my bias is to go back to origins and take you a little bit further back in time. The reason why we have ask yourself, why would we have the machinery”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  3. “They seem to have this map that basically they know. They know when the Bombambo tree has ripe fruit, they went like, okay, we're shifting across the whole territory. And I'm like, how do they know? These basic questions about travel I find fascinating, but maybe that was my own geek thing because I look at GPS endlessly. So I haven't worked it out yet. That's one. But that is actually compounded by actually the second part of the answer to your previous question about play in my personal life. For the pandemic, I was in Chile and I discovered not only like this old way of literary play, but also started climbing again and being a lot more spending a lot more time in the mountains. And so that is that opens an entirely new chapter in terms of physical exertion and risk and not like a martial arts guy, but still.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  4. “Or Bats, Austin, and Bats and Ecolocation, another huge topic. But to stick with Bonobus, in the jungle, the jungle is in many ways like the sea in the sense of that this particular jungle is flat. You don't have perspective, not like Chilean forest where you're on the mountains and you can see far. So for my own perspective, I was like, this is just like a sea of green. Obviously, I'm not attuned to the nuances that they are attuned also because it's not tempered environment, but tropical, the fruiting patterns is kind of weird. Some trees fruit once a year, some trees every two years, some trees you go, I don't know, a few months. So what I'm trying to say that the environmental uncertainty defluction in fruiting patterns is to my human eye, very large.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  5. “Many things which are mostly questions. Following Bonobos in the jungle, we try to predict the daily movements. Just the question, where are they going and why? And we couldn't. We couldn't. Not even the most experienced trackers. Because we wanted to know where they were going for a very practical reason because that would allow us to sleep for longer and find them. We couldn't. And they seemed so the mental maps in their heads, their cognition. How do they know where to forage? It's a very basic question. And a lot of animal behavior people with a particular species have very good answers about this, whether you're talking about migratory birds. Amazing. I mean, migratory birds. How do they know? Have you seen the distances that these birds travel? Little guys. I mean, it's amazing. Yeah. So then the world of cetaceans.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  6. “Perceptual modes, so to say, I was following play and I would get super attuned to it would sound weird, but temperature, which is, I called it a temperature, but it's really a combination of things. The time of day, the place where your body knows what's likely to happen, and then auditor accues, namely laughter, very distance, ha ha, ha ha, and then you follow that and then you see them. The reason I mention that is because it gave me a very obvious insight into Bonobo communication. Emily, they can't always see each other. Therefore, auditory communication is important.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  7. “That is kind of a little bit inevitable, perhaps, but I think today we try to think of it from the point of view of the animals in relation to the problems they have to solve and in relation to the environment they are in, notice, oh, can they solve puzzles? Because we're so good at solving puzzles. So that's in general terms. And the other thing that I think is important to think when you think about animal communication is, again, their environment. Brunobos live in the jungle. One of the obvious problems when you're in the jungle is that there's a lot of trees. So seeing visual cues are sometimes difficult. If you talk to birders, you are birding in a forest. You start listening. Basically, you bird by listening to calls, not by visually recognizing. And I realized that I shifted.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  8. “Body language and other cues. Smell is also important. So if you take this as a whole, they have different meanings depending how you combine it. The other thing that is important to understand, I think, in relation to your question and the chimpanzee example is that it's very difficult for us as humans given that we exist in language to not define intelligent communication from a human perspective. Given that I do language, how good are you at doing language? Oh language spoken word, right? If you're not as good as doing language, it means that your communication is inferior. You're defining the ability to swim if you're a fish according to how you swim.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  9. “Thank you. We are learning, obviously, and we're still learning, and a lot more will come. But the first thing that I think is very important to know is that communication is multimodal. So it's comprised of gestures, hand gestures, but also body language, posture, proximity. You are sitting next to whom you are in which location, just the physical location is also a part of communication. It's also vocal. There are utterances. Utterances have different meanings and they sometimes can be combined in different ways. Their communication is flexible. It's not their vocal communication. It's not us, obviously flexible as human languages. We have really taken vocal communication to an extreme. But so we have vocal, we have hand gestures, we have”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  10. “Social play, play fighting, construction play, people that did Legos. I think there's a deep truth on personal development that has to do with what are we drawn in our kind of purest forms of play, so to say. And so to recover that, I think it's like lesson number one.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  11. “The literary workshop is one, so I do this weekly. My teacher is called Matthias Rivas. He is an editor and a poet and that kind of intellectual play, allowing myself to like, oh, I will spend time not only in science stuff, but actually actively pursuing artistic endeavors has been, I think, really life-changing. And I had to kind of learn my own lesson. Oh, guess what? plays important at so many levels literature has become i mean it was when i was a child but i had kind of left it i think it's useful if you think of the ways you played as a child there's something very true there some play people talk about this i look at your pictures what were you drawn what kind of play did you do was it literary play was it play with animals”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  12. “Increasing in frequency are obviously face to face play. There's a hunger for in-person IRL in real life events. You go like, well, that's kind of obvious. But it's not obvious, if you will. We have amazing technology. The entire world has learned to zoom. Why are we actually willing to still travel long distances and pay for plane tickets and suffer ridiculous queues and stuff like going to Bernie Man? Because these kind of play is important. We have this necessity for in real life meetings, direct contact for humans is a very important form of play, not the only form of play. So that would be a very obvious example that I think I might predict we will see a lot of demand for that.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  13. “So for example ways of playing change form like a joker shapeshifts the name comes from it's a proton behavior it's a shapeshifting behavior according to what's happening Today, after the pandemic, well, sorry, we're still not after the pandemic, but we're kind of entering that stage. Hopefully, fingers crossed. Yes. I think ways of playing that are...”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  14. “What is a joker in cards? Joker is the card that adopts the value of the moment, right? It's a trump card. But that value is given by context, which means that play is making you very good at reading context. It's really all about assessing context. And then it changes. It grows, it decreases, it becomes more intense, less intense, more aggressive, less aggressive. Do you see what I'm trying to say?”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  15. “New possibilities. So, what I'm trying to say is that I think that frame of thinking where you're trading off time budgets and energy budgets, an investor would know this, but at a personal level, it has helped me to look at it much more clearly because your time is fixed, but your income can grow. And so how do you become like an adapted animal changing your time budget accordingly, not only to your income, but also to your context. Context is the context, stupid, right? Paraphrasing Bill Clinton, obviously, it's the economy stupid, but it's the context. Context is incredibly important in this sense. So I think there are ways that you can describe your context, how much risk is there, how much uncertainty is there. So I think if there's a lot of uncertainty, you can actually develop ways to become more flexible. That's why I was trying to study with the adaptive joker hypothesis.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  16. “More fruit, they played more, which tells you several things. The first one is that place expensive, not always you can play. That's fine. First of all, you should have sufficient metabolic energy to eat and travel and feed your kids and so on. Play is in that sense, especially for adults. It's true that it's a luxury. But here we come into the adaptive joker expensive hypothesis. There are some things in nature and in human cultures that when you can afford them, they create more luxury. investment in education, living in a city like Austin.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  17. “So that's a fixed budget, which means that there's this constant interplay, you know, tango or martial art, if you want, between your energy budget and your time budget. How you buy time or you use time is in interaction with your energy budget. The most obvious thing is that if you increase your energy budget, you have more money, you can buy your time, right? So the first observation that I had with Bonobus was that kind of sociological question, when they have more wealth, i.e. there's more fruit, what will they invest it in? It's kind of an investment question because they could become fatter, for instance, namely storing that metabolic energy. Or they could spend it in grooming conversation, so to say, for Renambos. It was really interesting to me to see that in terms of investment decision when there was”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  18. “So that's a great thing because thanks to people like Tim, actually that you can increase your energy budget. Fantastic. Your time budget, however, you can't. Time is an incredibly democratizing force because you and Earthworm have 24 hours in the day.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  19. “I would say as an animal, and I say this, I think hopefully by now you realize that I say this in the best possible way, you are constrained first by two things. So I want you to think about your energy budget and your time budget. Your energy budget is for you basically your financial budget. So I think you obviously have covered this extensively on how to manage and create an energy budgets. I define energy in the physics way of energy, ability to do work. So for organisms, energy available comes in the form of Metabolic energy for humans, I think a good proxy is financial energy. Financial energy can increase. You can win the notary and you can follow Tim's advice and earn more money. Right, God save, God save us.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  20. “Completely. I think your point of the overlap with flow states is correct. I think play is broader than that. Flow states are a subcategory of play, but certainly I think they're best understood through the lens of play. Flow states are perhaps more goal-oriented than... Play necessarily, so the play. If you distinguish between play and games, games are typically more goal-oriented, have clear outcomes. So a contest obviously has an outcome. And say if you've just played fighting with words or dancing, that the reward is the activity itself, it's intrinsic reward. So I would draw that distinction.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  21. “Ladies and gentlemen. But basically, yeah, time budget. So actually that led us to a very interesting discussion on the use of time and what is to optimize and not to optimize. And play behavior, I think, has several insights in that use of time and use of energy and at what level do you put the optimization goal?”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  22. “Said yesterday was very funny. I follow, I mean, I'm part of a literary club. I attend a workshop every week here in Chile. And, you know, we are Latin and it's a country of poets. I'm coming from that explanation of the Latin poetry tradition. And I told him we were going to speak today. And they said, Oh, yeah, I know that guy. I studied him with my son because he has the method for only working one hour a week. Anyway, and then I said, yeah, kind of like before, they were honestly referring to the four hour week. And then in a very kind of Latin poet, yeah, I thought it was interesting. I was initially compelled by this idea of working less, but then I thought he works a lot in order to work less.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  23. “And intelligence. And I think the third element there is that play when it's possible, because now we get into the sociology of play. Play is not always possible, particularly for adults. Many things need to happen for play to make sense. Play has costs and risks. And it's more important for the young. So the scaffolding is still true. But my question was like, why do you see this behavior in adult animals where it's risky and expensive in time and energy? And this brings us to, I've been thinking a lot, Tim, about... Time budgets and energy budgets at a personal level, I think because you are Mr. Optimization. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, well, actually time budgets. You're all about time budgets, namely how you organize your time, right? Okay, can I actually tell you something with a friend?”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  24. “Yeah, dolphins of whales. So, in that, these are animals that don't think of immediate. Genealogical relationships, but think of the niche again. What niche, what do these animals have in common? They are highly social, they live in complex societies, they have to deal with complexity. They tend to be long-lived. And just if you add the dimension of time, if you're social and are long-lived, it means you have to deal with uncertainty. Because who's your friend? Will they be your friend two weeks from now? You haven't seen them with whom to cooperate, with whom not to cooperate. Social life is complex. And so all of these groups of animals have these things in common elephants is another group of animals that also play and they fall in this broad group of, generally speaking, large brain, intelligent animals that live for a long time, they're very innovative, but also extremely social. So you have a relationship between social.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  25. “Other The family of COVID, so ravens, crows Are very playful birds, parrots as well. It's not a coincidence if you look at brain to body size ratio. Both these groups of birds, namely parrots and corvids, are kind of equivalent, if you will, to cetaceans and great apes.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  26. “How does it look today? So, you can define it broadly as a behavior that appears cooperative in the sense that it doesn't look forced. Animals are not doing it under constraint, duress, or obvious aggression. And there might be a sense of enjoyment, and it appears not having an obvious purpose. It has repetitive elements, but these repetitive elements also have variation. And so the element of enjoyment and recombination of elements is part of it. And so appearing to having fun, but of course, you know, that's easy when you look at humans, but you look at reptiles and like, how do you know the snake is having fun? It's like, well.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  27. “No, you're correct. We're mixing two definitions there. So I want to make a distinction when you ask these questions. Timbergen, another famous ethologist, defined the four questions. When you think about a behavior, what? Why, and from where. So the question I was asking is what's the evolutionary function of the behavior, which is different from defining it. How does it look today? So if you want to define it, and when you observe something and you want to study it, you need to define it.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  28. “And if play is a scaffold for building adult organisms, it means that play should finish once somatic growth finishes. You turn 17, 18, you stop playing. I think, again, this is roughly true in many species. It's not very common that adult animals play. But if you start looking around again with this question of like hone, ask the question. Then tell me which animals play as adults. And so what would come to mind? Let me ask you that question.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  29. “Play fighting in leopards, wordplay in young humans as a rule of thumb, you will observe how the young of a certain species play and you can have inferences on what they do as adults and plays training for adult. So all of that is true. But if you think of the word scaffolding to me was puzzling because it's like developmental scaffolding. So maybe it's because I come from a family of architects, but I keep thinking a scaffold is something that is used to build a building. And then when the building is done, you remove the scaffold, i.e. the scaffold is useless. It's just aiding you in constructing something. And when the thing, the building is ready, you take the scaffold away and the object is the thing.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  30. “Is the name I gave to my theory on play behavior, basically, I did for my masters and for my PhD. I studied play behavior. And the question you ask yourself as a revolutionary biologist, as mythology, is that what's the function of behavior? And so play has typically and continues to very rightly thought as developmental scaffolding, namely something, a behavior that is expensive and risky, but young animals do in order to build up the organism. So play prepares you for the future, play train skills. All of that is true.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  31. “Should meet him and go for a walk with him. He was originally a botanist, so he knows everything just to go for a walk with him outside is wonderful. So let's leave it there.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  32. “I know Rupert Sheldrick personally, and I really like him. And I think the work his son, Merlin, you probably know he's doing, is fantastic on Fang Jai. And so he's such a great guy.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  33. “Yeah, amazing. So there's that effect, but that's not all. I think there's also an ecosystem effect, namely that inventions don't I mean, this view of the lone person, whether it's a Japanese macaque female or Darwin alone and old man in his studio, we think in ecosystems, in environments through interaction with the world. So we are picking up stuff that it's already, it's fruit that is in our forest, so to say. So that other people start picking it. It's not incredibly surprising.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  34. “I'm trained as someone who looks at nature and I'm astounded at our own blindness of like how many times can I pass through a place without saying something until I go, oh, what about this and then I see it everywhere?”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  35. “I think if I may remain empirical about it, I think also thinking as an ecologist, I think, first of all, it's attention bi”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  36. “I've heard on the wakier side of that there are some explanations like morphic resonance. You probably know. Yeah, morphogenic fields and all that stuff. Right.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  37. “Yes, in an island Oh gosh, I just forgot the name of the island. The name of the female is Imo, and I'll get back to you with the name.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  38. “Water and her friends and family learned from her. So it became a very well known example of innovation and also who innovates and how innovations spread through social networks.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  39. “In the presence, and they were part of the mythology and the story. I think also the religion Shinto, so you know more about Shinto than I do, but basically interrelationships, I think that predisposed cognitively the Japanese to be much more prepared to think about continuities and discontinuities between humans and other primates. So the combination of these two factors made that in the 1940s already you had a tradition of Japanese primatology first there was this guy who was looking at horse behavior and then he started looking at other primates behavior and very famously he discovered the innovation of potato washing and so this female that you know they were eating potatoes that had sand and you know everyone you can go that's kind of annoying but still food and she learned to wash them in the”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  40. “Also And so the reason I'm mentioning that is because I would like you to imagine what it means for culture to live in a place where you have these animals nearby. And so that means that for the Japanese, primates, monkeys were part of their mythology of their stories. So think of the mythologies and the stories that we have in the West and our intelligent animals. They're mostly, say, ravens or foxes. Think of like German fairy tales. Who's clever? Oh, it's the raven. And why for obvious reasons? Because those were the animals that were available in our environment. So we think and interacted with them. We didn't have monkeys. For the West to look at monkeys, we had to go to Africa, to Asia. That's the first reason that I think it's evolutionary contingency, namely the Japanese. As a culture co-evolved with primates.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  41. “Which is a great title, in which he asks this question. Are the Japanese so interested in animal behavior? The Japanese came to animal behavior with the kind of questions we're asking today earlier than the West. Probably for two reasons. One of them is a contingency, an evolutionary contingency, namely habitat. In Japan, there are primates. You have Japanese monkeys. People I would invite your audience to Google Japanese monkey hot tub and what you will see, right?”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  42. “We were talking about Western mythology and Kondrad Lawrence. So animal behavior studies in the West come from that line of animal behavior in Europe whose origin is in biology. The Japanese have a different tradition in ethology that for them comes broadly speaking from the social sciences. And let me explain, I think this is really interesting because you see two cultures coming at the same, broadly speaking, area of study with different approaches. The book for more on this is by Franz DeVal, the Dutch mythologist, and it's called The Ape and the Sushi Master.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  43. “Of ignorance that sometimes is helpful. No, I'm not advocating. I should take that back because of course I'm all about knowing and knowledge. Play with the snakes. Play with the snakes. No, no, don't play with the snakes. Don't play with the snake. But the chapter in this book about...”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  44. “One-on-one. The most obvious danger, I think, with Congo for a woman would be physical violence from people. Congo is the rape capital of the world, but this pertains to the chronic conflict that Congo has. But I was quite far from that conflict. That conflict happens mostly in the East. Of course, it could erupt anytime and it was a concern. But I think I was more in the kind of dangers of the forest, so to say. Then there's disease, tropical disease. You think you can control many things, but I took this book called The Oxford Handbook of Tropical Medicine. I did not read it beforehand. And I think if I had read it beforehand, maybe it would have been, there's a small degree.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  45. “Electricity or any form of public sanitation for that matter. So I think for me, I was always thinking you really shouldn't get bitten by a snake. That's the bottom line. Don't get bitten by snake.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  46. “This means that, first of all, you have logistics that are complicated, there are other logistics of any tropical rainforests. There are dangers that are inherent in tropical rainforests such as trees falling. In fact, that's one of the most dangerous things. If you're following a group of large-bodied animals that are Pieces of whether or not sometimes a tree, but a huge branch, sometimes the size of a table would fall a few inches from you. And so that has caused injury, permanent injury, and actually a death in the group of people that live in the study site. There are other obvious dangers like snakes. There were green mambas, black mambas, congo vipers. We couldn't have antivenom because for antivenom you need electricity in order to have a fridge and to store it, refrigeration. So we didn't have”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  47. “Congo is historically, you will hear about the two Congos, Congo Brazzaville and Congo Kinshasa when we're talking about Congo, we mean Congo Kinshasa, meaning DRC, Democratic Republic of Congo, what was known before Zaire. So again, picture Africa. Literally picture the heart of it, the enormous big central middle, and that is Congo DRC. Congo is the size of Western Europe, as we were talking before. given that it's so large, there are many biomes, but I went to the tropical jungles literally in the heart of Congo, namely about 100 miles south of the river, just in the line of the equator, so my GPS would mark 000, about 600 kilometers, 400 miles from the nearest town.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  48. “Try to get out of this kind of sharp contrast. Both species have undergone their own paths. I don't think it's correct to say good guys and bad guys, or there are no angels, bunobus are no angels. There is conflict that every level of organization in nature. And also I think we should be careful about the naturalistic fallacy. Naturalistic fallacy meaning, oh, if this happens in nature, it means that this is okay for us to do the same in human societies, or this ought to be the way. Sorry, I said a lot there.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  49. “Nobles are the feminists, like peace loving. And again, life is a lot more complicated. And so I would just really like to stress that we should”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  50. “Let's think about animals that have most dimorphism. Again, let's pick the stag deer or gorillas. Typically that indicates aharam social structure in the sense of one male and several females That will, of course, is not as simple as that with time we have learned that guerrilla social systems are a lot more flexible than we thought. I mean, that's another rule of thumb. It's always more complicated than you think. And I think Oscar Wilde has a great quote about that. The truth is rarely simple. No, what's that quote? I forgot. I'll look it up. But it's a rule of thumb. Bonobos and chimpanzees are similar. I think in much more ways than we think they're different. In the past, I think because we were coming out of, or we still are in a kind of thinking of evil and goodness. So chimpanzees were like the bad guys and Brunovas were the good guys. And chimpanzees are technological Machiavellic politicians and, you know, male rapists.”

    2022-06-01 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT