YouSaid · the spoken record

Janet Napolitano

lines on the record: 56
first: 2019-05-16
most recent: 2019-05-16
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Exactly. And really to Pentagon to think about how How they handle when people leave the service. But nonetheless, as you know, it caused a bit of a political storm.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah the re it turns out the report was very prescient. We were criticized for the report because there was some language in a footnote that returning veterans were particularly susceptible. And the veterans community got very angry about that. And it was not meant to denigrate all veterans or the military or anything. It's really meant as a warning.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If one of the functions of Homeland Security is to keep people safe, well, we have lost more lives due to extreme weather events, traceable to global warming than we have to terrorist events in the last years. We're seeing more landfall hurricanes. We had four in 2017 alone. More tornadoes, a greater intensity of tornadoes, drought in the West, drying out the forest, leading to massy wildfires, resulting loss of life. Loss of property. And so we need to be focused not only on doing our part to reduce the rate of global warming, but also adaptation to the global warming we're already experiencing.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, in a couple of ways, first of all, climate is changing migration patterns around the world, and we need to be thinking more globally about that. We're seeing really a massive movement of people from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere by way of example. There are areas of the world where climate has already caused massive economic loss. For example, drought in Syria, in Yemen, killed the local agricultural economy. It means you got lots of young men roaming around, no work, no hope, ripe for terrorist recruitment, political unrest.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and that's amazing to me, but the whole national security decision-making apparatus seems to have kind of dissolved in the Trump administration. And that's dangerous too, because as you know from your time at the White House, things are going on all the time. All the time.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That would be a start, wouldn't it? And it's the kind of thing where you really need presidential leadership. If you're going to bring all these disparate parties to the table, Hammer things out. You really need leadership. He's not had a national leader.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. But nonetheless, there is enough, I think, evidence. And I think it's clear from the Mueller report, the Russians were all over our 2016 election. And there's no indication that they've stopped. Trump can't simply say to Putin, stop it and assume that he will. Although”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No. And it was interesting. So, former Secretary Nielsen gave a state of Homeland Security speech not too long before she resigned. And she listed cyber as kind of the top risk. It's an extraordinarily complicated topic because the technology continually changes. You've got public and private. You've got any number of federal agencies who have some jurisdiction in the cyber arena. So just kind of organizing them and clarifying their roles and responsibilities as kind of task number one. And when you think about our election system, elections are managed by local officials, local county recorders and the like.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, not hard enough. And we know that, and a lot of our nation's critical infrastructure is in private hands. And so this is something where the public and private sectors are going to have to work together. I think there needs to be much stronger kind of national standards that owners and operators of critical infrastructure need to adhere to. They shouldn't be voluntary as they are now. And, you know, I think that we have to continue to anticipate that our foreign adversaries, I'm speaking of Russia, are going to continue to attack our democracy itself through the tools they have in the cyber world.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the risks take many forms. They can be hacks. They can be the theft of personal information. They can be denial of service attacks. We actually shut down an electrical system or a water system or a telecommunication system.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's shifted to cyber. It's shifted to the risk associated with global warming and the increasing incidence of mass gun violence. The border, in contrast, is not a safety risk to Americans. It's a zone to be managed. It's a zone to be secure, but it is not in and of itself a safety risk.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. I think in some areas we are certainly safer than we were before 9-11. For example, it's Virtually impossible to think that a plot similar to what we saw in 9-11, where people take over commercial aircraft and weaponize them and fly them into buildings, that really can't happen anymore. But one of the reasons I wrote the book was to argue that risks to our Homeland Security continue to evolve. And if we kind of misallocate, misjudge what risks are real versus those that are kind of theater, we in essence put the country in greater danger.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, I think it can be real. Trump carried Arizona by three and a half points, so it wasn't an overwhelming victory. In 18, you saw Democrat take the Secretary of State position, which is we don't have a lieutenant governor there, so that's the second in charge. The superintendent of schools, we Took the U.S. Senate seat that was vacated by Jeff Flake, Kirsten Sinemo, won that race. We flipped a House seat. So it's definitely in play. I will say that it will be largely dependent on who the Democrats nominate makes sense, right? I think that Arizonans will favor, if I can use kind of the traditional spectrum, someone who is viewed as perhaps more moderate than far left. But I think the state can be in play.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But he reached out and I remember meeting him for what was supposed to be a 30-minute breakfast in Washington. And it stretched over an hour. And I just something clicked that the way he thought about government and politics was the way I thought about it. And then he made every effort to stay in touch and to show that I would be part of his team. And, you know, so when it came time to making an endorsement, it was pretty easy choice.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, I first met Obama at the 2004 National Convention in Boston. That's where he really, he gave the keynote. He lit the place up. And the one thing I'm grateful for is that I was the speaker right in front of him. Being right after. Oh, my Lord.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, and the other way is when you have a speaker who's just deliberately serving as a provocator, isn't really trying to contribute to an academic debate or anything of that sort, but is really there to provoke and to anger. Another way of dealing with them is just not to go. Not to provide them with that. Kind of a, and there are some.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, I think speech is speech. And when there's something that arises to a risk to physical safety, then I think a university can and should act. But short of that, I think the response to speech is more speech. And I think the role of educational institutions, much as you said, is to equip students with the tools they need to be able to engage and to respond and to be resilient. I think we have to recognize that students who are from groups that are under attack by particular speakers that they are under attack and reach out to them and provide them greater support, greater tools with which to engage with that. But I by no means think that the role of a university is to Make students safe from ideas as a one of the things that plagues us as a”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so let's back up the bus and just remind people that deportation is a civil proceeding. Prosecution is a criminal proceeding. And when the Attorney General announced zero tolerance, he was saying, anybody caught crossing illegally would be prosecuted, meaning they were put under the criminal jurisdiction of the United States. And that required then that children be separated from their parents. And meanwhile, all those law enforcement resources, the Assistant U.S. attorneys, the investigators, the courtrooms, et cetera, along the border are filled with prosecuting what at most are federal misdemeanors. Just a real mistaken allocation of law enforcement. Along the border”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, that's just not right. There were times when children were separated from the adults they were traveling with. It was when we had indications that they were actually being trafficked or they were physically at risk from the adults they were traveling with. But there was certainly nothing that approached the policy and nothing that approached the zero tolerance policy that the Trump administration pursued.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Civil institutions like judiciary, like the law enforcement functions in those countries. And that's not pure idealism. When Colombia was a narco-state, the United States had something called Plan Colombia, and over several years, investing resources and working with Colombians who didn't want to live in anarcho-state, they actually turned things around so that now Colombia is a tourist destination. You know, people don't leave their homelands and make that treacherous journey to the United States without being motivated by a sense of desperation for their lives and the lives of their children. And I think we have to understand that. And I think we can, and we would be better advised to invest in efforts at the source of the migration as opposed to the migration. To building a wall at the output of it.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I think we would be much better advised to try to deal with that at the source and try to in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think that's a mistake. ICE is a law enforcement organization like any law enforcement organization. It needs priorities on how it's going to expend its resources. It needs direction. I think one of the differences between the Obama administration and the Trump administration is that in point of fact that they have kind of erased any of those priorities. So anybody in the country illegally is fair game regardless of how long they've been here, the community ties they've established, and what their real risk is to the safety of Americans.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. We had real priorities. So it was those who had committed serious felonies while in the country, those who were known gang members or security risks, and those we apprehended right at the border. We actually put them into deportation proceedings. And those priorities had the effect of driving the numbers up. It was controversial. And I remember when the president was called a deporter-in-chief. And I don't think he appreciated that comment. But I also think that comment overlooked, well, who is it that's being deported? Overlooked that under the president, we did DACA, deferred action for Childhood arrivals. We stopped the practice of workplace raids. We did other things to try to make the administration of the immigration law better and more fair while advocating for immigration reform.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I worry about that. I think the democratic message should be we want border enforcement too, but it needs to be smart and it needs to Match the need for the lawful traffic and trade to be able to traverse through the ports with our need to make sure that illegal crossings are kept to a minimum. And there are strategies that have been demonstrated to work. Those are the strategies that ought to be funded, not a wall.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And we completed all but about 50 miles of structure, wall or fencing that had been identified by the experts as to what was necessary along the border. There's a big difference between that and saying you've got to build a 1,940 mile wall. And I used to say as governor, you know, show me a 10-foot wall and I'll show you an 11-foot ladder. Yes. And so again, the notion that a single physical structure is sufficient, it doesn't match with how the border works.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So in the early 2000s, and this is when I was Attorney General and Governor, by then the federal government had put something called Operation Gatekeeper in place in San Diego, Tijuana. And they had put something called Operation Hold the Line in the El Paso Juarez area. And those two operations had the function of driving illegal migration, funneling it right into what's called the Tucson sector, right into Arizona so that In 2003, I think it was, over half the border patrol apprehensions in the country were in that one sector. It really was overrun. It was not under control. Under the Obama administration and building on some of the work that had been done by President Bush's administration, we actually shut down that Tucson sector, and we had it under control so that the same dynamics didn't apply.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Having 21st century ports with the best technology properly staffed to facilitate that lawful traffic flow. And then between the ports of entry, a combination of manpower, technology, ground sensors, tunnel detection equipment, air cover, drones to enable you to find those who are crossing illegally. That's a strategy and that's really the strategy we use during the Obama administration and we drove illegal migration down to 40-year plus lows. In the current administration, despite the rhetoric and the kind of shutting down the government over funding for the wall, et cetera, you're actually seeing the numbers. Come back up again. So, whatever they're doing, it's certainly not having the effect of deterring any illegal migration. And it's not helping solve the problem.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, it's been a real theme of the Trump presidency and the wall has become kind of the picture he's painting. And I'll just say this, David. A wall is a symbol. It's not a strategy. The border is a zone. It's 1940 miles, some of its private land, some of its public land, some of its sovereign Indian nation land. It is dotted by ports of entry through which thousands of trucks and cars travel every day. Mexico is our third leading trade partner. It's responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs in the United States. And so to me, a real strategy requires”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah, and so meanwhile, we lack a coherent immigration policy. We lack a coherent climate policy. We're not dealing with these issues of income inequality, which underscores so many other issues in our country. These are big kind of extant risks to the United States. And you rarely hear about them. Yeah. It's amazing.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're in a place now where everyone has retreated to their corner of the ring and there's no positive engagement. There's engagement. But mainly for...”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. I think it wasn't at McConnell who said that their chief priority was to make sure he didn't get a second term. Yes. And I really thought that was an outrageous comment. You're a United States Senate, and your chief priority is going to be to try to defeat the incumbent president. Meanwhile, the country was teetering on the verge of a depression, and we had all of these large looming issues, some of which, like immigration, still loom in our country. It's just not the way it ought to be. In my view of government, every action...”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, right. You're not going to be building a toll road somewhere. Yeah. That's right. And so Long story short, we made an agreement that they would fund all day kindergarten and that for every public prison we built there would also be a private prison. Not ideal, but a compromise, a workable compromise, and got us where we needed to go on all day K. And that historically has been kind of how progress has been made in American history. What we're seeing now in Washington, D.C. is a total paralysis of that process. You know, we saw...”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And they didn't want to take the most difficult prisoners, right? They wanted to take the easier to control populations. This is the...”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because I think that imprisonment is kind of a core, if you're going to do it, it's kind of a core function of the state. And beyond that, the record of the private prison industry is not a good record.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We had a burgeoning population of families with young children. They mostly came from lower socioeconomic status. We wanted to catch them up by the time they got to first grade. Kind of standard metrics. And the Republicans in the legislature were opposed to that, but they really wanted private prisons. I don't like private prisons. I don't think prisons should be operated by for-profit industries.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, when you're elected Attorney General or Governor, you're not the attorney general just for the Democrats. You're not the governor just for the Democrats. You're the governor of Arizona. And I think with those kind of roles comes the responsibility to understand that there are people of different views and to understand that if you're the executive and the legislative branches under the control of the other party, if you want to get any part of your program adopted, you're going to have to give and go. You're going to have to give them something in order to get something that you view as a larger good. And so I'll give you an example. I wanted free all-day kindergarten for every Arizona child.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Maybe, and you have to discipline yourself to do it. I think most candidates procrastinate. They find something else. They have to do, et cetera. But in the end, if you don't have the funds needed to support your... Your staff and the media buys and all the rest, yeah, your toast.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it was interesting because the Democratic Party at the time in Arizona was almost non-existent. So there was no kind of structure that I could feed into. So I had one campaign worker, a young man who'd worked with me at the U.S. Attorney's office. We had this dumpy little office in a very seedy part of Phoenix, two card tables, some folding chairs, a couple of phone lines. And I would literally go in there and make cold calls to raise money, you know, five, six hours a day. And then we try to set up house parties. And then on the weekends, I'd go do parades and county fairs and all those kinds of things. And, you know, slowly but surely, you know, we built an organization and were able to raise enough money in order to win the race.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. And fortunately, at the time, you could go in as an acting. So I went in as an acting U.S. attorney. But yeah, confirmation went all the way to a cloture vote in the Senate. For a U.S. attorney position, because I had the fortune or misfortune of being the first person associated with Anita Hill who had to come before the Senate Judiciary Committee for confirmation. And they had a memory of that.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Especially Yeah, so I'd been serving as the U.S. Attorney for Arizona. President Clinton had nominated me and I was confirmed and served during his first term. And I'd been in that role for four plus years. And I was going to be turning 40. And the attorney generalship of Arizona was going to be an open seat. And, you know, I already had this little, you know, kind of itch, I guess, that I'd like to run myself. And I kind of thought, you know, if I don't do it now, I'll never do it and I'll always wonder, you know, the wooda coulda, shoulda aspect. And you're right. It's a big jump.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Look, I don't know how to advise the vice president on this. I think he's tried to explain his role in the hearings. I think he's tried in his own way to apologize. I don't think his apology has gotten over the goal line yet.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, sure. I was like, who's running this railroad? There were other members of the committee that could have spoken up as well and been more active. The Democrats were remarkably silent and I can only speculate that in part it was because Thomas was an African-American. They didn't want to... Be seen as attacking him, but that kind of vacuum allowed the Republicans on the committee to just drive through their counter-narrative and try to depict Professor Hill as not a credible witness”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, I think he himself has acknowledged that he did not control the hearing the way a chairman can. I think he would do it very differently if the hearings were held today. I think we have to evaluate the vice president in light of his total record.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was deja vu all over again. And it was if the Senate as an institution had not evolved at all in terms of how you address serious allegations of sexual harassment. So when Anita Hill testified, this was in 1991, it was really the first time sexual harassment in the workplace became kind of popularly known or discussed. And as the aftermath, there were lots of changes in the law, lots of changes in workplace policies, training, and the like. So things continued to evolve, not perfectly as the Me Too movement demonstrates, but nonetheless places. Make some movement. The Senate obviously made no movement.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And what was kind of interesting about that is I was in the hearing room. Most of our team had left to go to dinner. And then all of a sudden the doors open and the senators start coming in and in comes Boyden Gray with Clarence Thomas in tow. This was before there were iPhones or anything like that. There was no way to get a hold of the team. So I was there and they were having dinner.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And, you know, and she held up really well. I mean, she was a very, very good witness and a credible witness. And what's interesting is when she finally went on was in the afternoon and she did very well and kind of had the story for the six o'clock newscast. And I think the Thomas team recognized that he needed to do something so that he could flip the story by the 10 o'clock news. So he called it a high-tech lynching. Yeah. So all of a sudden they decided that he could come on and they would have an evening session.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, she was treated terribly. And, you know, there were no rules, right? It wasn't like going into court where you could object, where you could insist on a particular order of witnesses or the like. So, for example, we had been told that she would be the first witness, and we were literally in the kind of green room or whatever the waiting room and they came in and said, no, Thomas wants to go first, you know, just totally, things like that were happening all the time. And then the questions were just so out of bounds and the tone taken by particularly the Republican members of the committee was so disrespectful.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So the senior partner at MyLaw Firm was a man named John Frank. He'd been a professor of law at Yale, had moved to Arizona because he had terrible asthma. And he was an expert on Supreme Court nominations. He'd been involved in Hainsworth. He was involved in Bork. He wrote a book about it. And when the Senate Judiciary Committee decided For help, and he reached out to me, and we took a red-eyed to Washington on a Monday and met our client on Tuesday, and by the end of the week, we were in the midst of the hearing.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wasn't applying to her because she was a woman, but she obviously became a great mentor and remains a good friend and mentor.”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Barely gotten through college. No, so you apply to judges. So, you know, I just went through the judges almanac and identified judges who were in the Ninth Circuit in...”
2019-05-16 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 327 – Janet Napolitano · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source