YouSaid · the spoken record

Jennifer Eberhardt

lines on the record: 102
first: 2019-09-02
most recent: 2019-09-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“It's just basically when you're thinking about after something has happened and occurred. Yeah, you knew that and you think, oh, it should have been clear from the beginning and so forth. And then confirmation bias is you have a theory about how you look for things. Yeah, and you look for certain things and not others. And even when you're confronted with something that's inconsistent with what you thought, you ignore that, you minimize it. And so there are all these biases that we have, including this racial bias that we want to be aware of.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, exactly. In that sense, you can say stereotyping has a function, right? Like once you put people in a category and then you develop beliefs about the people who are in that or the animals, right, who are in that category. So that helps you, right? It makes things more predictable for you. People talk about stereotyping as an energy-saving device where you don't have to sort of think of everything that you're confronted with afresh, right? think about sort of what kinds of things kind of go with the animals say that are in that category and so it saves us time and saves our brain resources it makes things more predictable and so there's a function to it and we have all kinds of biases we were we were spending a lot of time here talking about racial bias right but there's hindsight bias and you know there's um confirmation Bias.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, that's, yeah, and there's bias that comes with that with the cats and the lions and all that, because once you categorize them, you kind of know you have some idea about whether they're dangerous.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I know this is going to sound a really crazy question, but is there any good use of bias? Is it ever good? Categorization, I get able to, this is a car, this is a lion, that's a cat. That's okay. Those are all good things. Well, that's eaten.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, Clo. There You're kind of aiding and abetting, or don't say anything at all. Don't let We can't, and you're giving people a tool to express that exactly. So do you have some responsibility in that?”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, you won't like it. Oh, clo. There you go. It's fascinating the results. And of course, they all say, well, that's what people are searching for. And you're like, yeah, but you can stop them from. Right. You know what I mean? Like you can suggest other things. You're kind of aiding and abetting. Or don't say anything at all. Don't let people be filled. Don't let anything be filled in. Like it was really, you know. Saying that's the way people are is sort of like, well, people do terrible things to each other doesn't mean we can't. And you're giving people.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Millions of lives, right? Martial heart is a good thing. They don't like to feel like they have impact when they have enormous impact, which I think is difficult. One of the things I'm obsessed with is when you fill in a Google box, if you do black people are women are, try it sometime.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about some of the clues, right? We talked about figuring out ways to slow people down so that they don't do these things. And we can do that as individuals ourselves, or we can slow people down in the social environments that we control. So next door. 95% of our communities and now they have figured out a way to slow people down so that there's less profiling. So that's huge, right? And I feel like companies have a huge role to play here. I think they have a responsibility in all of this because of the power they wield. I mean, they cannot just affect one life, but many, many millions of lives, right? That checklist changed the mindset of all of these people now who are on next door. And so that's, I think, recognizing that power in that power is a good thing.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Everybody's on LSD. That's the answer for Silicon Valley in case you're interested. Oh, sure. It gets rid of the ego. And then we're all it. We're all in, I guess. But how do you do that? What is you think, do you have any clue right now of how you use science to do that? Yeah.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I'm trying to look at ways that we can use science to help us to understand bias and to help us to mitigate it. And so that's drugs. Everybody's on LSD. That's the answer for Silicon Valley in case you're interested. Oh, sure. It gets rid of them.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you know, people are responding to social norms, they are responding to how they're seen, they're responding to the image of themselves and whether they're going to be liked or shunned and all of this. You don't have those concerns if you're anonymous. People don't know who you are. And so you're more likely to sort of reduce the share.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's no analog contact as much. There's digital contact. And so it's very hard to, again, it was supposed to bring it together. It brings you apart because there's no physical contact. There's no looking at each other.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That they're actually exactly. Right. And then finally, how do you, when you think about all these things, it seems as if we're past a point of no return, but that's probably not the case because we're right in the middle of it, right? It feels like that. And it does feel like, especially that creates that situation of people being.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah. Now you have proof, right, that they're actually exactly what you thought they were. And so that can backfire. So it has to be equal status contact where it's people working together cooperatively for common goals. And it has to be contact that's sanctioned by leadership. And so there's a long sort of laundry list of conditions that make contact either bad or good. Right.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, if you bring people together and there are two different groups say and they're of unequal status, that's not the best.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, there are a lot of these, I think, increasing positive contact across groups, too, is a big one. Know that's something from social psychology we've known for many decades now that not just bringing people into contact with each other but establishing the right kind of contact actually can reduce bias which is the difference”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But you don't want to see it. But, I mean, having those metrics allows not just them to focus on it, but us as a society to focus on it.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, without the data, you have nothing, right? It's hard to hold yourself accountable to something that you can't see or you don't want to see.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think so we got speed, we got subjective standards, we got also, I think, accountability is a big issue. So bias is more likely to happen when you don't have accountability and you don't have metrics to actually measure some of the things that you care about. So for example, I think we started out talking about just how there's not much diversity in tech at these tech companies at all. And we know that partly because a lot of the tech companies have started to keep track of what they're doing. And so that accountability, like using those metrics so that they're transparent about what's happening is a good thing because it allows us to see how bad the problem is. It allows them to create goals for themselves of where they want to be.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What else? I think so we talked about furtive movements, right? So not using subjective standards to evaluate the behavior of other people. So this idea of what's furtive and all that was subjective, and it actually led to huge, huge racial disparities in who got stopped by the police. And again, so they decided to take that off the forum so that you can't stop someone based on furtive sneaky. So that's a, yeah, and that's a good thing, right? So you want to evaluate others and evaluate yourself too on the basis of objective standards rather than subjective standards, such as.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When you watch it, yeah, I think people feel like tech is going to solve a lot of our problems and make things easier. And then in some ways it can, but in some ways it raises all these other issues. And, you know, again, the bias, you migrates to these other spaces and especially if we haven't really dealt with the issue and we don't want to talk about race. We don't want to talk about bias. It can emerge in these other spaces.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because what would happen in those situations is that you would get a lot of incivility where people kind of end up in shouting matches or something like that. And you're trying to create a product where you're bringing neighbors together and not polarizing things. It's an interesting.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They were trying to modify. You've seen those signs if you see something, say something. So they were trying to modify that. So if you see something suspicious, say something specific. So that's what they were going for. And so using this method and trying to slow people down with the checklist, they were able to curb profiling on the website by over 75%.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It can't be black man. I mean, a lot of times it was just the social category. So your social category can't make you suspicious. And so they learned that. And then the second thing was to describe the person in enough detail that you're actually describing that person's individual features rather than simply his social category, which often, again, was blackmail. And then the third and last thing was they gave them a definition of what racial profiling was. And so a lot of people actually didn't know what racial profiling was, nor did they understand that they were engaging in it. So just educating people about what it was and what they were doing. And then letting them know that this is prohibited on the platform. So that's getting back to that whole cultural norm thing that we talked about earlier. You're setting the cultural norms where you're saying that this is not permissible. And so.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. Which is called walking. Right. Or just the presence in the mostly white community was enough to make that person suspicious. It had nothing to do with any kind of criminal wrongdoing. So that was a problem, right? So they decided to slow people down by putting up a checklist. It's a three-item checklist. And so you have to go through the checklist before you can just shout out to all their neighbors about the suspicious black man, right? And the first thing on the list is what is it about the person's behavior that is making him suspicious? So it can't be...”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, similar issue. So, with Next Door, they realized, you know, after talking to me and other people and consulting the literature that if they wanted to fight racial profiling on the platform, that they were going to have to slow people down, right? But again, we were just talking earlier about how a lot of tech products are built. So that, yeah, so you don't have to think people down. So what they decided to do was it used to be the case that if you saw someone suspicious, you could just hit the crime and safety tab and then you could shout out to all your neighbors, suspicious person. Oftentimes the person who was suspicious was a black man and the case is where it was racial profiling, right? This person was doing nothing. Right.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Reached out to me to ask well, how do we herb? Create it. Same thing with Airbnb. Yes, the same thing, which is people didn't want to rent to people of color or whether we should put pictures on it. It was like that. It was a similar issue. Right.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, the debate I heard about was some several years ago the co-founder of Nextdoor Sarah Leary reached out to me to ask, well, how do we curb racial profiling on the platform? Because that was an issue and completely, you know, this was the opposite of why they created Airbnb. Yes, the same thing.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What it was? Is there people allowed to put up videos with their cameras and things like that? A lot of places, and it's always black people committing crimes. That's what it degenerated into in a lot of neighborhoods. And then the question was whether people were reporting incorrectly or whether according to much of those or whether that was the real thing. And so it was a big debate around that.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's one Oh, okay. I didn't know about that one. It failed. So, anyway, so with Next Door, I mean, Next Door is, I think, in 95% of our neighborhoods in the U.S. right now. And so, you know, it's spread.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so this is an online platform, right, that was created with the intention of bringing people together, of making communities happier and safer and where people could gather and share information about their neighborhoods, about their neighborhoods. And so it's all kind of neighborhood-based. And so really great idea, sort of good intentions there. Over the past.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I mean, I think you can solve for it in a lot of ways. I mean, like we talked earlier about slowing people down, that people are more likely to express bias when they're not thinking and they're just kind of going on these automatic sort of well-rehearsed, well-practiced associations that they have. And so they kind of spring to life and influence how people are making decisions and so forth. So I'll give you a good example of this, which is next door, right?”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, is it healthy? Because you do see it on social media now. People don't hold back anymore. They're saying these things out loud, especially the president and others, and they're using these tools, which are naturally allow people to express themselves the id, you know, the id takes over, I guess, and everything else. How do you solve for that then? Is there a hope to get rid of bias entirely? Or is it just not...”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, you aren't. Exactly. Right. So when people see the disparities, oftentimes they interpret those disparities in a way that has to do with how they feel about that group or the associations that they've been that are well practiced about that group.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You aren't rich because you didn't try hard enough. Yeah. You aren't. Yeah, exactly. You didn't get into college because you weren't smart enough, whatever, whatever that idea is. You didn't work hard enough, really. Is at the heart of it?”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think it's hard for people to see, especially for Americans, to see things at a systemic level because we're so socialized to sort of think about ourselves as kind of independent spirits and that we, you know, we don't really see the situation that people are in as much as we just kind of see the behavior as a true reflection of the self and the person's desires and intentions.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“How do you do that? Because people, you know, for example, in Silicon Valley with hiring. They're like, I just is that way. It's just there's more of these people than these people, and ultimately it leads you to their conclusion, which is that they're only young white men can invent things, which is untrue. But they're saying, look, this is only the people. But then you're like, well, you hire them and therefore they're able to and therefore they can't see the whole systemic problem. Yeah.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. But the intention sometimes is irrelevant, right? When you have a problem that's created, you have to sort of focus on what that problem is and how it's being produced regardless of the intention. And that's the case for bias too, right? You can have a bias and you can do something that reflects that bias or you can make some decision, right, that's infected by bias. And the issue isn't whether you intended it or not. So you have to focus on the impact and have the impact be a motivator for trying to figure out how to correct it.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And that was the intention, right? Yeah. For a lot of these sort of tech products. I think that was the intention. Commonality.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're here with Jennifer Eberhardts, the professor at Stanford University, who's written a book called Bias Uncovering the Hidden Prejudice That Shapes What We See, Think, and Do. Jennifer, when you're talking about this, so if data doesn't work necessarily or cameras or sensors or tech, how do you solve the problem? Because it seems like it's only getting worse because on social media that, as you said, it's twitchy, it creates that, it separates people. People thought it was going to bring people together so people would see each other more clearly.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're doing their job and they're stopping the people who are committing crime, and if there are racial disparities in who commits crime, then you would expect that. And so you can, again, you have the same data, but a huge disagreement about how to see that data. So you need more than data. I don't think data is worth an anchor, but it's not going to completely resolve things for every question.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, that you can have this data now and you could see whether there are racial disparities in stops and racial disparities in searches and the rest and so forth. But people can look at the same data differently, right? So collecting that data alone isn't going to resolve the problem because some people will look at that data and say, well, this shows that there's bias and that we need police reform. And then other people can look at that same data and say, well, it doesn't show bias at all. You know, police officers are just doing it.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think data can help, but I don't think data resolves everything. I think sometimes you need more than that. And I think the same is true for there's a push in California, for example, to actually a statewide mandate now, right, that police officers record information about who they're stopping, right? So the race of the person, the gender, the idea is that look what you're doing.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. Even not just what you see, but again, what you look at, like what you're focused on when you're looking at one of these viral videos of an officer involved shooting, for example, what you're looking at and what you're looking for and if there's something ambiguous, how you interpret that and so forth, all that varies.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Even if there's absolute proof Amazing. I remember the videos came out of all the various videos that were happening of killings, of motorists by police. And I had at least three people say, well, it's not clear what happened there. I'm like, oh, it's clear. It was fascinating. I was like, it was sort of the beginning of this entire Trump era. And it was really interesting because I was sort of like, it's actually right there. Right.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which Right. Seeing is subjective, right? And that's what we were talking about before the whole believing is seeing. It's not like it's just our own histories, our own beliefs influence.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And in those kinds of things. Right. So these technologies should presumably be able to show people the bias in order to fix it if they see, oh, look what I just did. But that's the opposite seems to have happened. No one can agree on what they're seeing, which is pretty clear. You'd think technology would help. It's like, look what just happened.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, it's really interesting. Yes, for black motorists, it was Bro and Dude and those kinds of things. That didn't happen with white motorists”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For example, Stops Someone did an art project on this where they just played the sounds and how they spoke to African Americans stopped, which the words were more diminutive, disrespectful, and the words to white motorists were Sir, ma'am. It was really interesting. Yeah, and it's black.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And we found that officers are professional overall. This is in Oakland, actually California. But there's a race difference where they treat white drivers with more respect through their language than black drivers.”
2019-09-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT