YouSaid · the spoken record

Jeremy Bailenson

lines on the record: 99
first: 2018-02-12
most recent: 2018-02-12
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“The first is attention when you have a listener to a podcast, you have her attention. There's no other sounds going through those ears. In VR, if you want somebody to look at a specific spot at a specific time, you can't force that. So there can be some very important event going on. It could be a sidelong glance between two people. It can be something moving in your field of view. And the user can be looking at her feet or she can be looking up in the sky and it's hard to, you know.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So if you were to ask me six months ago, what is blocking this from getting everywhere, six months ago I would have said position tracking, which is the way you measure how somebody moves physically so you can update the virtual scene. I think that that's not been solved, but there's been enough progress there that I don't think that that's a roadblock. I do believe that that content is the problem. And there's two roadblocks. The first is simply creating 3D models that look really good as expensive and we need more people to become great 3D modelers. The second is narrative. There's two challenges here. One is in general storytelling is really hard to do well. There's a reason why Recode has succeeded compared to everyone else because you guys know how to do storytelling. The second is the traditional model of storytelling doesn't work in VR. We could talk about all the reasons why talking to me.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So in VR, there's three ways to do content. One we won't talk about because it's not ripe yet, and that's called light field capture. But putting that aside, you either get to build 3D models using computer graphics or you shoot in what's called 360 video. And 360 video is cheap, easy. The problem is it's not interactive. So you can't grab an object when you're going to computer graphics. That's where it gets more pricey and more expensive. And so depending on what your needs are, how interactive you need it to be, it's going to get more expensive.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now, how expensive was that? Because to create the VR is forever. We just went through one on empathy, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But it's very expensive to create each of these, correct? Or is the price coming down?”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So last year I co-founded a company called Striver and Striver began using VR to train quarterbacks to teach quarterbacks how to look around, recognize a pattern. Last year we trained over 100,000 employees of Walmart. And what they were training are things like Look around. Is there a safety violation? Is there a sharp knife out? Look around during holiday rush with everybody coming at you and practicing coping strategies in these really intense arousing conditions. And this was a use case that of the many, many things that Walmart trains as employees, there's literally a couple hundred-page document. We chose four or five things out of there that actually we thought would be a good use case in VR.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, training to me, what has been the one case that has persisted for the last three decades, and that's the military using VR to train soldiers? And when you take that lens and say, let's use VR not just to train soldiers, but let's train athletes and let's train people who work at a big consumer. So I think training is a low-hanging fruit.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And what is the best explanation that you have when you think about it? And we'll get to the empathy part. I agree with you. I think what you're doing is much more important. What is the why that's the best reason for a lot of these companies? Because entertainment companies have been dabbling, not as much as the tech companies, obviously, because it's a heavily tech product, essentially.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Wozniak, he talks about when he and Jobs created the personal computer how they got it wrong in terms of what they thought the use case is. Now, you know, Facebook Oculus, they thought games was going to be the home run. And, you know, in my opinion, games are probably better in the current state they are in VR. And you're seeing at least slow progress there. So why they're doing it, you know, there's this kind of sense where everybody feels there's something here. It's a transformational experiential thing, but no one's really figured out why.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, Kara, if I knew the why I would be wealthy and famous, and I think they're struggling with the what do we really want people to do in here? So you brought up Pokemon Go. When you look at the commercials for augmented reality, it's helping me fix a think or it's, you know, let's really understand how to learn. And then you build it and it's, let's play Pokemon Go. It's a real challenge”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm on their advisory board. I spend a lot of time working with them to help them think that through Microsoft hired, so the genius Mark Bolas, who was the USC professor that really Oculus is born because some people go and sit in Mark Bolas's lab. He's now at Microsoft, of course Jaron Lanier's at Microsoft, the Chinese companies are all dedicating nine to 10 figure budgets in this Sony, of course, is the first person to really deliver to living rooms with a PlayStation VR about 10 million.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, with Apple, the first row of Apple is you do not talk about apples. So I'll leave it at that with Apple. Oh, dear, you must have checked it.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're here in the red chair with Jeremy Balanson, the founder of the Virtual Human Interaction Lab at Stanford University. That's a mouthful, Jeremy. He's also a professor in the communication department and the author of a new book called Experience on Demand, what virtual reality is, how it works, and what it can do. And we've been talking about how he got to virtual reality. Let's talk about where it is now. Now, Facebook made an enormous investment by buying Oculus Magic Leaf is another. There's just a lot of interest in Silicon Valley over this, although others are not as interested. I was just recently at Apple and they're much more interested in AR. That's their sort of focus of the phone being the center of it. Can you just talk about the state of play right now? And not just the academic state of play, because that's different than the commercial one.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I can murder somebody in the real world, but I wouldn't want to do it. So it's about you should do impossible things in VR. You shouldn't do things you wouldn't do otherwise. Yeah.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So it's a great point, and the distinction is could versus would. So I can't jump out of the plane in the real world, but I wouldn't VR.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The advice if there's one take home piece that listeners can have, if VR's done well, it's not a media experience, it's an actual experience.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're doing all that stuff. Course. So I couldn't be the VR guy. So virtual human interaction really points to that social collaborative nature.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like, what is that I mean, look, had you met me in 1999, we would not be having this interview. What do you do? That's a ridiculous thing. I know you knew what it was, but it wouldn't be worth, you know.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, no one ever asked that question. I'm glad you did. It was a careful process because I wanted to, when I first got to Stanford, I couldn't be seen as the VR guy because VR was not a thing. Right, yeah, yeah, the VR guy.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The companies come here and visit, and all of them have a wing, you can name which big one, they all have a wing VR for good or VR for social. So they're all playing in this space. And I actually think that the people who I've talked to, they care and they're doing it for the right reasons. That being said, that's not going to be how their business succeeds. Their business is going to succeed because you read the news in VR and you're watching your sitcoms in VR. So we spend a lot of time talking to them. We give endless demos to groups from different companies. And I talk to the leaders of these companies and I get on my soapbox and they politely listen to me about, you shouldn't use it all day. It's not for all types of content. We'll see what happens.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Look, I'm all for entertainment, and when VR works for entertainment, then I think it's going to be great. We're choosing to focus a lab's energy on how to use VR to try to solve some harder problems.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I totally agree. I totally agree. But even if you're going to a shopping mall or museum, the content's got to be good enough to justify messing up your hair, getting those lines around your face, having your buddies take pictures of you and making fun. And so we try to focus in the lab on content that's worth doing, but not all content is that.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What we're trying to find as a field of VR is when you and I on the panels together, you made a, it was a funny comment about who would wear these guys, who would actually wear these goddesses. And the answer is if the content is good enough, you will do it.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, right. Yeah, you could. You could just do that endlessly. But there is a point where you could. It's interesting when I try VR now, it's exactly that. I'm like, okay, I got that. Like, I don't want to be with the gnomes or I don't want to touch the whale anymore. I got touching the whale. Some of them are more appealing than others. Like if you're in Hawaii or, you know, or on a boat, it's kind of cool. But eventually that's enough. That's enough.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's not about something used all the time. It's for these very intense, teachable aha moments that, you know, you just did a demo in my lab, Cara, and you got it. It took you about two, three minutes. You didn't need to be in there for 20 minutes.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So luckily here at Stanford, we are a revolving door and everybody comes here to see what we're doing, but also to show us what they're doing. And from my perspective, there's been a tension, which is that the corporations, their job is to make money. They make money when everybody's using VR and you're using it all day long. So that's why you're seeing film and media and video games. In my experience, and I've been doing this for 20 years now, VR doesn't work for these long durations using it every day for a couple of reasons. So for me, it's been watching the companies who think that they can just do everything they've always done in VR come to grips with the fact. And of course, no one listens to me when I politely suggest that they've got to learn on their own, there's a reason people aren't playing video games for 10 hours a day in VR or why you haven't seen a feature film that anyone has gone to because VR is not about, in my opinion, long”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Shifting whenever we build something in VR, we always go back to the old work and we say, what was the best way to do it before? And we don't try to reinvent the wheel. So we certainly look to the role-playing work. All right.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In situations Role playing has been around forever, but it's usually you're sitting in front of someone who doesn't look like what you're supposed to be or whatever. It's hard to do because it requires huge amounts of imagination and shifting.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Post tenure we shift to what happens when you put people in places, in places that teach you situations. And so it didn't need to have the sort of”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The early work was about what happens when you put people together in VR. And I still do that work and we can talk about it.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, that's an interesting, we'll talk about their trajectory, but post tenure, my trajectory changed drastically. So pre-tenure. It was work that I thought was amazing and rigorous, and I'm very proud of it, but it wasn't necessarily what I wanted to be doing. So the early work, the social interaction, I'm in the Department of Communication, so studying how people communicate seemed like a good fit. And remember, I came from psychology and came to a new field communication. So I wanted to try to stay as far down the line as I could. Now, when I get tenure in 2010, that really frees me up to do work that may not be as publishable in the short term, but is a little more out there, but things that I wanted to do. For example, this is the work we do with using virtual reality to teach about climate change, to teach about empathy or race relations.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we are here in the Department of Communication, and when I arrived here, what I tunnel visioned on for eight years straight was social interaction. What happens when two people network into VR and they see each other's avatars and what changes in terms of how they talk, how they feel connected, what are the implications of forming friendships online, the social interaction, because you have to get tenure here at Stanford. And the way you do that is you just become as good as you possibly can on one area.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. I will stick to visual reality because that's where you work in. But when you think about virtual reality, it did go commercial. So you stayed at Stanford and you were studying what here? What were you hired to do? You did your postdoc. Studying”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think it came from a corporation first, and I won't name that corporation. Mixed reality is if you think of VR as all digital and AR is mostly physical light, then mixed reality gets you somewhere in the middle. So it's basically you can think of it as a continuum, how much of the lighter you're letting in from the physical right.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, so it's imposing digital things like Pokemon, I think, or what a key is doing around clothing and things like that. So, I mean, around furniture, seeing in your living room, and then mixed reality. Is that different, or is that both of them?”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Augmented reality, the best way to think about AR is multitasking. So augmented reality, most of what you see in here comes from the physical world. And we put a digital layer over that. So if there's a crowd of people, everybody can have a name tag over their head that only you can see and you'll know their names.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, in my lab, we do always sight and sound. We do a little bit of haptics and we used to do a lot more where you basically get forced feedback so you feel touch. And we do a little bit of scent. I'm happy later on to talk about our smell study, our donut study, and how it relates to eating.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Virtual reality is complete transportation. We block out light from the physical world. We block out sound. All of your senses get replaced. And it's really as if you went somewhere else psychologically and you don't see the physical world.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, from my perspective, VR is growing in that period because when I get there, there's 10 people, social scientists that are even delving at all into this. And from my perspective, I never thought it was going to be a consumer product this soon. That wasn't the frame that I had. For me, it was, wow, we're actually getting to publish in places that are reputable. And whoa, Stanford's bringing me out for job interview. What's wrong with those crazy guys? Why would they interview somebody doing something so strange in 2003? So from my perspective, it actually was growing, but I didn't have the consumer veil on it.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And so one of the things that, you know, meanwhile, as you're doing this, the internet's starting to explode, really. I mean, there was a downturn, but it pretty much was on the, up and to the right, essentially people using it with some focus on VR, but a lot less, because VR was VR and other and artificial intelligence were sort of hot for a while and then weren't because people were more focused on portals and then social media and different Twitter and things like that. What happened during that period, would you say? Because it's made a comeback, let's just say.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There was a handful of engineers that were doing it. And then the reason I got this postdoc at UC Santa Barbara is because we were using it to study perception. So if you try to think about how the human understands vision, how we understand sight and sounds, VR is a great tool because you can say dissociate what the eyes see from what the body's doing. You can have a person physically walking but not see the updates or vice versa. And it's a really nice way to understand the visual system. So I was lucky enough to get this postdoc at Santa Barbara where they're, again, just a handful of people looking at Psych and VR. And I was lucky enough to shift out of perceptual psychology and work with a guy named Jim Blaskovich who taught me the social world how to ask bigger questions about social interaction and communication and training and what began was a really fun collaboration where we asked the question in a world where there's no rules. You can change your age. You can look at two people at once. You can have your”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Consumer grade, but. Right, that's what he thought. So you started doing that, and so there weren't that many people in the field, though it was talked about a lot. There was a lot of attention towards Jaron and others.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it was enough to make me think The helmet was not big and giant. It was certainly bigger and giater than what we have now consumer grade. But nothing compared to the monstrosities that I later put in my lab upstairs. Right.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He was stood on this platform and they tried to do it networked, and you were basically combating people and dinosaurs. And to be honest, all the details are a little fuzzy.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The first VR I ever did was in 1994. I was interviewing to be a grad student at Berkeley and on the Embarcadero they had this game called Dactyl Nightmare. And it was running 10 frames a second. The tracking was off. It was still.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And there were the games, there were a lot of these games that were in that genre and worlds that people would create and games, even all the different games, all the various Dungeons& Dragons games were a version of that.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It really pushes in a world where VR is, what does it mean to be a person? What does it mean to be co-located with people? You know, unfortunately, it's a very dark vision. They all are. If it bleeds, it leads, right? Yeah. But in terms of, especially you got to remember, Gibson writes this in the late 70s. And when he writes it, he's working with Jaron Lanier, who's the godfather of VR created the term. And there's this synergy where the really early demos of VR, you know, he takes these into account as he's writing it, in my opinion, just really sets up a place to understand what people are.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And it was, you know, I realized as I was trying to build artificial intelligence, I wasn't that good at it. But with VR, you can fake intelligence. You can create an illusion that causes people to really feel like they're in a place. I was inspired by Neuromancer.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And my PhD was in cognitive psychology. And in 1999, I looked around and I realized that I didn't really love what I was doing. I was building models of how the mind worked, running experiments on people and writing computer programs to represent the mind. And I decided I want to leave my field. And I was lucky enough to get a postdoc at UC Santa Barbara where I learned how to build VR from a hardware standpoint.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Today in the red chair is Jeremy Balinsen, the founder of the Virtual Human Interaction Lab at Stanford University, where we are taping this podcast. He's also a professor in Stanford's communication department and is the author of a new book called Experience on Demand, what virtual reality is, how it works, and what it can do. Jeremy, welcome to Rico Deco.”
2018-02-12 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Jeremy Bailenson, author, 'Experience on Demand' · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT