YouSaid · the spoken record

Karl Deisseroth

lines on the record: 178
first: 2022-04-07
most recent: 2022-04-07
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Of a particular type, you can cause a separation of the sense of self from the sense of the body. What's normally bound up and unitary? We normally think of ourselves and our body as pretty tightly bound up together. Those can be separated, it turns out. We can't take that for granted and there are certain conditions, certain patterns of activity in one part of the brain called the retrosplenial cortex, where you can actually separate those two out. And so if you think about... These very big questions. Where are the origins of religiosity? How do we define the boundaries of who we are relative to others and to the world? Do we link”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And we have early clues. So, for example, when patients with epilepsy have. Experiences of religiosity as part of their seizure or the aura before their seizure. Very often those are in the temporal lobe, in these parts of the brain that are at the side. And so that's initial clue. There are also parts of the brain that Are involved in the definition of the self and defining the borders or boundaries of the self And we know this is some experiments that we did in my lab. There's a part of the brain where if there's a rhythm,”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But of course, it could be very idiosyncratic. Many people have cognitive problems post-COVID. You're definitely aware of that. So many people report this persistent brain fog, inability to function. But it depends on where the inflammation was. Maybe the people who have dysfunction post-COVID, they had a global effect. Maybe you lost some of these projections that were Restraining you in some way, and these plausibly exist, and it's known that there are cell populations in the prefrontal cortex that actively restrain deeper structures from expressing what they do. And it's theoretically possible that you had a lucky Somebody has to get lost.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are mechanisms for the potential mechanisms for what you're talking about. There are, there's actually been a fair bit of research on post-COVID neurological function. Actually, my wife, Michelle Manje, who's at Stanford, she's done a lot of this work, Akiko Iwasaki at Yale has done a lot of this. What they found is that. A loss of myelin. This is the coating of those long range projections that go from one part of the brain to another. Myelin is this sort of insulator that coats these long-range projections and makes the impulses go faster and more reliably. And there's altered function of the myelin producing cells, an altered myelin in the case of COVID. They looked in both mouse and human brains.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“An animal. We've used a holographic method, 3D holograms to play in hundreds of individual cell-sized spots of light. And we can change those quickly. And so there are a lot of tricks, a lot of interesting optics engineering that has come together with neuroscience in a pretty exciting way.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, the mushy mesh is kind of interesting because there are problems with light scatters in the brain. So the photons don't just go linearly through. Whenever they hit an interface between fat and water, lipid and water, they bounce off in different directions. And so you can come in with all the resolution you want. You could play in an incredibly detailed high resolution pattern of light, but the photons start scattering quite quickly. And by the time you've gone a couple of millimeters deep, you've lost almost all that fine spatial information. But we've developed workarounds. The longer wavelength light you use, if you get into the infrared, there's less scattering. You can use two photon methods or three-photon methods where the photons have to arrive all together at the same time. You can put in fiber optics. We developed these fiber optic methods in 2007 where you can access these deep structures with fiber optic methods and you can put many of these fiber optics at the same time.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Outside academia will bring ideas that weren't being worked on, at least approaches. They may turn out to be synergistic. These things do work very well with optogenetics because all these electrical recording methods, that's one channel of information flow. Light delivery is a separate, more or less independent. There can be some artifacts that happen, but if you're careful, it's another independent pathway of information flow. And we've done really fun experiments in mice where we play in patterns of activity with light. We record activity from across the brain of a mouse electrically. And so using optical and electrical together is extremely powerful.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Parts of the brain that drive motivation, that drive hunger and thirst and social interaction and parenting and flight and fear and anxiety, all these things are, there's so much that's deep that these surface approaches are not getting to. And so we and others are using these very long electrodes that help us get deep, and we can still record for many cells, many thousands of cells. We can have multiple of these at once in the same animal. And so there's a diversity of methods to get to this goal. I think it's great that people coming from...”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the engineering that they've done is actually pretty cool. So I like the Yeah, from the design perspective. It was a design approach that wasn't being taken in academia. And it's great that they did it. And I think it's pretty cool. So I'll say that. Also, there are many ways that you can record from many thousands of neurons. And that's not the only way. It's a very interesting way. We and others are using brain-penetrating electrodes that actually get quite deep. This whole structure of the brain is very interesting. There's the surface cortex where the most recently emergent part of the brain in evolution. Mammals have it. Reptiles have something a little bit like it, but it's not really the full thing. This is a very recent thing. That's what we can access with some of these neural link approach and with some of these short electrodes. This part of the brain, the cortex, is only a few millimeters thick, but there's so much that's deep though that's so important. There's the stratum, there's the thalamus, there are the”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and exactly. And so the hope is this is a great example of how you can cure or you can provide some relief for a symptom of a person who has a serious degenerative disease. But the principles are what we're after. And that's why I spend, even though I'm a psychiatrist, even though I still see patients, I'm not myself trying to drive any clinical trials in the lab. I'm trying to discover and then any kind of therapy could result from that.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As beautiful as that is, and I'm glad he did all that work. There are so many other ways that optogenetics could help with therapies. Once you know the principles, then any kind of therapy can become more powerful. Once you know the causal cells in a symptom like in lack of motivation or inability to enjoy things or altered sleep or altered energy, once you know the cells that are causal, then you can make medications that address those cells. You could address brain stimulation treatments that might address those cells.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So that's sort of proof of principle. Now, the retina is very accessible. It's near the surface. You can use natural light or you can use brighter natural light. I'm myself, I see optogenetics as a discovery tool. It's a way to figure out the principles by which the brain works and how it operates.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And he was able to make this person see through that eye. So he took a blind person, and the blind person could see now, could reach for objects selectively on a table. And he published this in Nature Medicine. And it was, you know, that's an amazing thing.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And he put one of those into an extracted retina from a human being who had died, so it was a cataveric retina. And he was able to show that optical control in this paper was able to turn on or off individual cells in the human retina. So that was a while back. He spent about 10 years of going through all the regulatory hoops and hurdles and going through primate studies. And finally, he was able to take a human being with a retinal degeneration syndrome so someone who was blind in both eyes. And he gave one of these options into one eye of this human being who was blind. And with the goal of conferring light sensitivity onto this retina that was not able to see light.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Optogenetics is primarily a discovery tool that really is well suited for use in mice and rats and monkeys because it's involves putting in a gene and also delivering light. And those are two things that you can do in human beings, but you'd want to do in a very careful way. Now that said, there is actually just less than a year ago, my friend Botand Rosca in Switzerland, he did the first human optogenetics therapy. And he published this in the journal Nature Medicine. So about 10, 12 years ago, he and I published a paper together where we gave him one of our optogenetic tools, one of these light activated regulators of an ion flow. These are called microbial opsins, by the way, opsins.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now there really isn't. Now that we have this individual cell guidance, we can target any individual kind of cell very reliably. And so now to your question of scale. How far can we go? Well, things are moving quickly. It's hard to say. We can access individual cells across the entire brain now. You look 10, 20 years in the future. I think we'll surprise ourselves, but the fact that we're already able to cause specific perceptions to happen and specific actions means we're essentially where we want to be and now it's a matter of just, you know. More experiments, more discoveries, but the basic principles are clear now. The basic capability is there.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Without any visual stimulus at all, we could make it act as if it had seen a particular visual stimulus by playing in using the single cell resolution optogenetics a specific pattern of activity into twenty or twenty five individually specified cells. That's 2019 to your question of scale. Now in 2022, we're controlling hundreds of individually specified single cells over all of visual cortex of a mouse, all the part of the brain that is the initial direct target of the incoming information from the retina.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's going so fast it's hard to predict. I'll give you a sense of it though first paper we published in 2005 that was just in cultured neurons by 2007 so that was in a dish. By 2007 we had it working in behaving mice by 2009 we had it pretty general so we had methods to really make it a versatile method could be applied to essentially any cell. By 2012, we could get to single cell resolution. We used light guidance strategies to target individual cells in the brain of a living mouse. By 2019, we were able to control up to 20 to 50 individually specified single cells in the brain of a mouse in ways that specifically changed its behavior that could bias its decisions one way or the other. In fact, We could take a mouse”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And one of the cool things we've been able to do now with modern methods is to really study these proteins. And so we've discovered some of these proteins, other groups have as well. We've dived deep into their structure, just like the double helix structure of DNA was uncovered with X-ray crystallography. We used the same method, X-ray crystallography, to see how these beautiful little proteins work. We re-engineered them for all kinds of functions. We can make them instead of responding to blue light. We can make them respond to red light. We can speed them up, slow them down. We can make them with genetic engineering. We can make them have different ions flow through them. And so this convergence, as you said, like the botanist in 1866 couldn't have predicted what we could do with this. And the fact that we've been able to discover how these beautiful proteins work. And then apply them to neuroscience is really a thrilling story.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's actually the origins of it you might be interested in are very deep. There was a botanist in St. Petersburg named Andrei Famensen in 1866. He published a paper on these single-celled green algae, and he was the botanist who first noticed that they moved in response to light. These are tiny single-celled algae that have flagella, so they swim through the water. He noticed this. He was a botanist, and he published this as a paper. He wrote in German, but he published it in a French journal, and he was doing it from St. Petersburg. So it was a very international effort. But you have to go back to 1866. And that, I like to highlight how far back that discovery goes is back to Andre Famensen. And this is a, it highlights the value of just pure basic science discovery.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But that's a beautiful thing for neuroscience because movement of ions charged particles across the membrane of the cell is exactly the kind of electricity that neurons work with. So if we can take this bit of DNA that encodes this beautiful protein that turns light into electricity from algae, and if we can put it into Some neurons, but not other neurons, which we can do using genetic tricks. Then you've got a situation then you can shine on the light and only the cells that have the gene and that are expressing the gene will be the initial direct cells that are activated by the light. And so that's the essence of optogenetics is the ability to do that. We get that initial specificity that you could never get with an electrode.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which is a great situation to start with because any light sensitivity you can provide to some cells will be a huge signal above the noise. And so that's what we do with optogenetics. We take micro. Genes, bits of DNA from microbes, single-celled organisms. And these single celled organisms like algae make little proteins that sit in the surface of their cells that receive light, capture a photon of light, and open up a little hole in the membrane of the cell and let charge particles, ions like sodium and potassium flow across the membrane of the cell. These algae and bacteria do this for their own reasons because that helps them move, it helps them make and use energy.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Electricity going around anyway. And you're adding more, but there's no specificity even among the different kinds of cells either because all around the wire that you've put in, there are going to be so many different cells doing totally different things, many of them in opposition to each other. We know that's one way the brain is set up. There are parts of the brain where neurons side by side are doing completely different things and maybe even antagonistic to each other. So, what do you do? How do you play in activity with any kind of specificity? Well, what you do is use what we found is what you can do is make. Some cells responsive to light. Now, normally no cells deepen in the brain really respond to light. They're not built for that. There's no reason for them to respond to light in there.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Pretty difficult. And then, even once you get in, it's hard because all brain cells are electrical. All neurons are electrically activated. And so if you wanted to use electricity as what you were putting in, you won't have any specificity at all. If you have an electrode, a wire, and you put it in the brain, and you send current through it, all the cells near the electrode will be stimulated”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And he even said the ideal signal would be light because it would be fast, it could penetrate through the brain to some extent. And He had no idea how to do it. He said this would probably be very far fetched, but it would be a good thing.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, if you could exactly or parts of the brain or cell types or individual cells. At the natural rate and rhythm and timing of normal brain activity, that would be immensely valuable because you could determine what actually mattered, what could cause complex things to happen, and what could prevent complex things from happening in a specific way. But right away you've got a problem if you want to do this. And scientists, neuroscientists have wanted to do this for a long time. Francis Crick of Double Helix of DNA fame, he wrote a famous paper in 1999. He got interested in neuroscience later in life. And he said, what we need in neuroscience is a way that we could turn on or off the activity of individual types of neurons. A behaving animal”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Optogenetics is a way of causing things to happen. It's a way of determining what actually matters in terms of the activity of the brain for the amazing things. It does sensation, cognition, action. What it does is it provides activity. It's a way of playing in, if you will, activity patterns into precisely defined cells. And the way we do it is pretty cool, I think. Right away, there's a problem if you think about how do we do this? How could we play in well-defined activity patterns and provide a stream of activity into this cell and that cell and that cell, but not these other cells?”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“swaths of the brain at cellular resolution, and so we're going to be able, hopefully, to make some headway on this question with causality. And that's the one thing that optogenetics provides us this way of using light that we develop to control cells. An untapped, relatively untapped at this broad brain wide scale, and hopefully we can get there in the near future. But I would say that the answer may be in the data, but we don't know how to find it.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One amazing thing is that nobody's found it, but we have these rich data sets, and then there's a conundrum, which is, is it in the data? And we just don't know how to look at it. Maybe we don't know the right scale, the right projection to make of the data, the right way to interpret it. And here's where causal testing becomes very valuable. Because then instead of just passively observing Well, here The activity patterns, and then here's the choice made by the animal. As we've gotten more Powerful at reaching in and causing things to happen in the brain. Turning up or down, the activity of certain types of cells or defined populations of cells and seeing how that affects actions, these causal perturbations have turned out to be very valuable. We're just now getting to the point where we can apply these in very wide.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're right to say we shouldn't generalize or make absolutist statements. But I would say right now the reason things are looking even harder to crack than we had initially thought, we now have the data streams that we've wanted for so long in terms of activity patterns all across the brain at the level of cells. We can literally see what cells are doing. Immense data sets. These are time series of one individual cell with sub-second resolution and you can collect this from enormous numbers of cells across the brain. So very rich data sets that we've wanted for a long time and yet having these has not led to an understanding of truly where actions initiate in terms of regions or locations.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“At one level, you might think how excited would Young have been to see this or Freud or the early psychoanalysts to see where this starts? Not so simple because an emerging theme in very recent neuroscience, literally over the last few years. That things sort of all start together all across the brain. And so you can be recording from the cortex, this rim of cells at the surface of the brain, or you can be recording deeper in a structure called the striatum, which is a little older. It's more tightly linked to action. And then structures called the thalamus. Other parts of the brain. And if you record from these, all sort of represent the action and the choice. More or less all at about the same time, very close. And so you can't point to a particular spot. And say, here's where the choice or the action originates. It's a group.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Individual cells, exactly, of which there are in our brain many billions. And when we do and we try to predict what action will be taken by an animal, To address this question, where does the choice arise? Where does the Impetus to make a particular selection of one action versus another action. Where does that start in the brain? If you're recording, listening in on the activity of cells all across the brain, Where's the earliest spot you can pick up? Choice being made”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's from modern neuroscience, whenever we seem to get closer to addressing a question like this at the level of cells. Seems to get farther away, and I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. So, one thing I'm doing in my laboratory, and many people are doing, is we are listening in on the activity of cells, neurons, in the brain of mice or rats, or fish, or monkeys.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of health and life for the self and family. And so this is, I think it's maybe an artificial distinction. The concept of the unconscious is very valuable and very interesting. But these categorizations of id and superego may not map onto neurobiology in any particular way. There's a town hall of competing drives and desires and they interrelate to each other. They involve different aspects of the brain and the history of the person and actions and choices come out of the result of that overall shouting in the town hall.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And he was extremely focused on that aspect. But then there was the superego, which brought on these later sort of moralistic sort of codes of conduct. And that, of course, was very often in intention. But all this could play out subconsciously. And then the ego, this third aspect was mediating, and Freud's conception mediated this tension between the different parts. Now, I think that's interesting. I will say that Some ways it's maybe unnecessary from the perspective of modern neuroscience to divide things up that way from the moralistic. And the primal gratification drives. In some ways, they're all drives, and maybe they're even all primal drives, you know, the moralistic drives, they're taught and they're taught in ways that ultimately relate back to survival. And you could even say selfish aspects of survival.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“that Freud, for example, would talk about them. And the id was the primary drives that an infant would have or that a very young child, just warmth and feeding. And then later the sexual orbitanous aspects.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is the fascinating thing about psychoanalysis. And even though it's, I would say, mostly not considered a treatment today, it persists for a couple reasons. One is it's thought that it gives people some insight. But second, there's been a huge influence on literature, on philosophy, on art, and the opening up of discussion about what was below our conscious mind was so fertile in the implications that it sort of reverberated and still does throughout all these different realms of human endeavor from different artistic experiences that people have can be colored by this concept of the unconscious. Now, the other thing that was interesting is this distinction. What are the parts of the unconscious? And so there were these id and ego and superego subdivisions that”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sexual related drives. Carl Jung, who was his contemporary, that's one factor that led to them separating was, you know, Carl Jung felt there was a lot more to the unconscious than this libidinous aspect of it. And he saw it as a much more Complete alternate representation of the conscious self, one that may be reflected a whole range of different. Motivations and desires. Properly treat it one had to consider all of them rather than the ones that Freud was supposed”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's not too simplistic. But that's right. And I think that was valuable where Freud ended up breaking from some of his contemporaries. He was very focused on this unconscious as being so tightly linked to libido and really from his perspective you couldn't really separate the operation of the unconscious mind from these aspects, the libidinous aspects. And that was one reason.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That insight, separate even from treatment, was an interesting thing, as long as one was honest about that and said, you know, we're going for understanding, we're going for insight.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that was A very important step for the field, I would say one of the interesting things that came from the early decades of psychiatry really was this distinction between the conscious and the unconscious mind and paying particular attention to the unconscious mind as something that was worthy of consideration that might be important in explaining people's actions and that perhaps even insight into that was valuable in its own right. And out of that psychoanalysis became a practice that Was not always focused on cures or treatment, but was more focused on insight. What does it mean? How can we help people understand why they're feeling something or thinking something or dreaming something?”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Been an interesting journey. Psychiatry started out pretty firmly grounded in neurology and pathology, some of the initial founders effectively of the field were very well grounded in microscopy, looking at cells, working with patients, particularly on the neurological side, and this certainly included Freud and some of his contemporaries. But they rapidly discovered that They could work with the level of cells and microscopy was so far from the realm of what they could get from a human being and what they were getting from the human being was so much more interesting and so mysterious and so unknown that many of them just said we're going to inhabit this domain and we're going to work with the people with their words and understand what we can based on verbal communication because that was the only tool that people really had.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's really good that there's that Diversity in their willingness to forge. Some stay where they are, the species is somewhat on a firm footing then, but some carry a burden, a risk for themselves, but it's good for the species that they are explorers and they will venture out. Migration patterns that different species blunder into and that turn out to be really good. They weren't logically derived. They most certainly started from something like this, an exploration.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would want to sit down with a penguin and go through. I want to see the notes from his prior therapist. This actually is relevant, not knowing what was that penguin's motivation, we have very clear situations where there are both within an individual we go through periods of time when we stay in one place and we reap the benefits from what we've built and then we go through periods of foraging, of wandering, even if there may be resources where we are. have periods of time in our lives where we wander, where we go in an exploratory mode. And different people express that trait in different ways. This is not a human-specific trait. If you go down to the tiny little nematode worm, C. Alligans with 302 nervous system cells, they go through these phases of foraging and rest, and different individuals have different propensity to forage or to rest and stay in one place at the level of the species.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“From my perspective, this is something that it can be hard to capture fairly because you want to talk about the positive and the negative sides at once. They need to be wrapped up together for full, honest description of what it is. And that's hard to do in a compact form. And so you have to take time to talk about love. You have to take time to... To do it justice. It takes a book, or at least a poem.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, it's the most powerful connection we can form, and that's its. What makes it so important to us? It's the strongest. Most stable connection that we can form with another person, and that matters immensely. The human family to have evolved, to be something that could survive against the odds that we've faced over the years. Unreasonable bond that becomes reasonable by virtue of its own existence. And of course. That joy, the wild, raw joy of love is not a bad thing either. So you put these together. The strongest bridge we can form. And the reward and the joy that it brings. That's what love is to me.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is universal. You know, you see it in so many forms of art. We're in Texas now, you see this in country and Western songs. It's often a list of things. Here's how I describe myself. There's this and there's that and there's the other thing. And here you are. These things matter to me. And I hope they matter to you too. It's a pretty universal form. But he did it in this very artful and very vulnerable way. It was both beautiful and you could feel the hurt coming from him too, and that was important.”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm offering up hard stuff too. In fact, a lot of it. And also hard stuff from within me for my own personal side too. And that was, there's a lot of vulnerability that comes with that, but that comes with love, that comes with writing. You have to be open. You have to be vulnerable. And so I thought that reflected what I was trying to do. And I thought it was as an epigraphic. It kind of made it clear how vulnerable I was in taking this step, but also. What could come out of it?”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The board face is offering up Scenes from his life, parts of himself, and this is how we connect with people. We offer up parts of ourselves. Just here it is, and then we see how well does that map onto what you have. And it's that offering up that I liked. And not the good stuff, or not only the good stuff. The yellow rose is nice, but he's offering up the bad stuff too. And that to me was important for the book because...”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so that absolutely, I think that it was a beautiful description of what you just said when there's that first moment, and then you want to dive deeper. You want to know what the hidden mysteries are. In a way, it's a love poem. As a scientist, though, it also... A bit of how a scientist can love science. That wanting to dive deeper is almost like, again, where it could be a love affair with investigating the human mind, for example. And that was one reason it spoke to me also. Again, thinking about the broader sweep of where the human mind came from, the steps it took to get where it is today, what was given up along the way, what compromises were made. And here's where the darkness of the poem starts to come in a little bit too. It doesn't shy away from the negativity, from the confusion, from the danger. And then at the very end”
2022-04-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #274 – Karl Deisseroth: Depression, Schizophrenia, and Psychiatry · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source