YouSaid · the spoken record

Michael Daniel

lines on the record: 99
first: 2019-10-02
most recent: 2019-10-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“So that somebody actually decides to try to do something and they play around with a piece of malware, something that they really don't understand what it does, and we end up with some sort of catastrophic effect. That's what I actually do.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's another area where there's been a tremendous amount of progress. And so I think that there are places where you can find that and where that has actually worked well. But it requires actually thinking through and approaching the problem not from a confrontational standpoint. And this requires work on the government side. I'm not putting on the burden on the private sector. But from I can speak as a former civil servant that this is about the mission. And if we can get the conversation to focus on achieving the mission in a way that is both achieves the mission but also is protective of our constitutional rights and people's privacy and other things like that, then there's actually space for solutions.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think that at the end of the day, at the level of the civil servants, at the people that are out there on the front lines, the reason they do what they do is because they believe in the mission. And I think that is what forms the basis of where you can actually build both trust and a way forward. At the root of it, that's the desire to actually get the mission done. And I think If you come at it from that angle as a way to solve a problem, then I actually do think that there are ways for the government and the tech sector and other sectors to actually cooperate and make progress. And we've done this in other areas. The level of cooperation that we actually have between the finance sector, for example, and the US government in combating both fraud and Money laundering and other things is very high.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or you could leak it to a reporter, not you, but someone who has access to the data could leak it. I mean, that sometimes works. I don't know. It's just a tip. All right. Or else will tax Hillary Clinton and get her to do it. What do you say? I will do that tonight. Okay, I happen to have her phone number.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so I think one of the challenges that, and as you were involved with the campaign, you undoubtedly know, right, is that there are 8,000 election jurisdictions in the United States. And we explicitly designed our system not to have centralized oversight. And there are many reasons why we did that, many beneficial reasons. But one of the downsides is that then all of those kinds of issues have to be handled. And so unless you can actually tie that specifically to something that goes with the voting rights act, then that's a Justice Department issue. But beyond that, it's a local problem. And that's one of the hindrances of our system. Beyond that, you've now exceeded my expertise.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And they're probably Sally and Frank, in addition to their responsibility as the IT people are also probably managing the garbage contract, right? I mean, so there's a capacity problem there as well. And so this is where I do think the federal government has the potential to play a role, but we also have to be very careful in that area.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, this is actually a broader problem than just the electoral election officials, right? I mean, if you actually ask chief information security officers right now what's your biggest problem, they will tell you there are 3,000 security vendors out there, and I have no idea what the difference is between them, like what their products do, how does product A fit with product 25 along with mango, these are completely different things. And so that integration is very much a problem. And then you compound that in a lot of those places, particularly local jurisdictions, right, where as one person put it today, another discussion I was at, you know, they went to this particular locality and they were like, and so we met with their tech team in their cubicle, all two of them, for this fairly major city, like had two guys, you know, doing this, right?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Biggest challenge is that we saw at the state and local level from a cybersecurity perspective was that a lot of the election officials didn't really understand which cybersecurity vendors are And so, if I'm Kapersky Labs and I go to an election official and say, hey, I have free time testing. Protect Secure the election here. It's really hard for a lot of people at the local level to discern who they give access to. And so my question is really around what can we do about this from more of a cybersecurity education standpoint? Should there be a whitelist blacklist, et cetera? Because for everyday people, these are quite unknown.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, this administration has been very Uncoordinated in what it has done. And they have some individuals that have done some really phenomenal work. I have tremendous respect for the folks at DHS, Chris Krebs, who's the director of CISA. They have really done some phenomenal work. The people at the Pentagon that have continued to work very, very hard. There are people at the State Department like Rob Streer who continue to work very hard. But the issue for them is that they are in effect sort of trying to flail against the tide. And this administration's lack of vision and lack of prioritization at the center is definitely hindering those individual agencies from doing their jobs effectively.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Way to put it is some facet of the conflict will occur in cyberspace and will occur through cyberspace to generate a physical effect in the real world.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, and I think what the United States should actually do a much better job of is learning from the experience that other countries have had. And so I do think that we had excellent cooperation with Ukraine in 2015 and in 2016 with the attack on the power grid there. And there was actually a very robust exchange between the Ukrainian power operators, the Ukrainian government, and the US government and our power operators here. And we learned a tremendous amount from doing that exchange. And so I think that we very much need to build on that experience. I would say more broadly, you're correct, and you will now, I think, see almost every major conflict that happens will have a cyber component.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You don't even have to go to the level of adversaries. There's a lot of money that rides on the census. And so there's a strong incentive to skew numbers and other things just to drive where federal dollars go. So you don't even have to go to a foreign adversary to create scenarios where somebody has an incentive to mess with things.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And suddenly you can carry off all of that information in under two weeks. And it only took them two weeks because they actually had to learn Unix. But what worries me is whether or not we've actually fully thought through from beginning to end what making the process changes that doing that digital. And if we actually thought through all of the ramifications of that, and I can almost assuredly say the answer to that question is no, we have not. And so myself, I would prefer to be much more cautious in that regard and being very selective about the way that we adopt technology in that area to make processes easier, yes, but also that's a very, you know, there's.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There at the Mimeograph machine with the purple mimeograph machine. Any of you old enough to remember purple mimeographs? Yeah, and the Russian fur hat. No. That's not going to happen. But you digitize it.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so I think this is one area where we're very much in danger of violating that if it ain't broke, don't fix it rule, which is that, again, when we actually digitize information and if you don't think through what the change in digitizing that information actually means in terms of the threats that can be applied to it, you can get yourself in trouble. And so, for example, that's exactly what happened with the Office of Personnel Management. So we took all of the records that had been long stored in a cave, literally a cave, and we started to digitize them. And nobody really thought through what that meant in terms of the change in the threat vector, because when they were in the cave, like what were like at the time that was during the Cold War, so what were the Russians going to do back the semi-up to the cave instead?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Most people in Washington think 2021 before there's a national privacy bill because it won't happen next year, in the election year. And it's not a good election topic. Except for Elizabeth Warren. So, you know what I mean? It's just not, and that's not even her top one. And then we'll go over here.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I do think that in terms of a cybersecurity law, I actually don't know that, well, first of all, Congress wouldn't actually pass anything. But beyond that right now, but I think the challenge is we don't actually know what we would put in there. And there are certainly things that I think need to be pursued, but they're not the kind of grand changes that really Drive legislation across the finish line right now. Again, it comes back to a lot of this is about, we know what we need to do. We just need to actually generate the political will to do it. And so that really has as much about trying to look at incentives and get the incentives aligned as it is about the actual underlying law.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Most part that they fall. But one in eight But I do think that having some commonality across the country would actually be economically beneficial because you could do it. You could simplify compliance with that.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, but the real privacy laws that are passing this year, there's 12 really significant ones. And the California one goes into effect, which will be the de facto privacy regulation of this country. I mean, it will be. And then there's Europe. And so whatever the most stringent is will be the one for the most part that they fall. But one in eight people live in California, so it's going to be the law.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Go ahead. So I definitely think that a federal privacy law would be beneficial because I think we're finally up to 49 privacy laws across the country. No, in the United States.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Thank you for being here and for your thoughts. I'm curious about a federal privacy law or a federal cybersecurity law and your thoughts about whether we should as a country have one. We are likely to have one. And if we did, what would you love to see in it? What would be your wish list of elements?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So blockchain is certainly a possibility, although I think that you have to ensure that certain conditions are met because it's actually possible to thwart blockchain as well. It's got to be traceable.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We need to do. I mean, yes, there are a few sort of what I consider to be RD problems out there. So, for example, if you actually look at what some of the best research shows, right now, you generally using the best coding practices that we know about, you will generate about one exploitable bug per 30,000 lines of code. That sounds okay until you realize that your average connected car runs about 500 million lines of code. So the math is kind of against us there. What we don't know, we actually don't know how to write code better than that. We don't know how to write code in a way that you only have one exploitable bug per million lines of code or per 10 million lines of code. So that's an actual R&D problem that we need to address. But there's a lot of other things that we actually do know how to do that we really just need to do.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so the incentive to actually take a little bit of extra time and ensure that your product has been through some testing and has actually passed some security reviews, it's just not there. And so that underlying incentive problem is something that we have to figure out a way to address. And this is like whether you're talking medical devices, your connected car, your toaster, your light bulb, you know, the next generation of iMac or whatever. So I think that the other thing is that most of this is actually, we know what we need to do. There are reams of documentation on good cybersecurity practices that would address 95% of the problems that we have. So it's really not a matter of figuring out what”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think when you look at The underlying drivers behind some of this, right? The economics of and the incentive to actually work on security of products is very low. The driver is, and the assumption in tech is first to market wins, second to market dead. There is no runner-up. It's A or F.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'll just very briefly say you don't want the government to be working too closely with companies, right? We're not Russia. We're not China. We're definitely not China. At the same time, there are certain things that tech has been allowed to do that networks can't do. They get to do any kind of, their advertising is so messy compared to what you can put on a TV station or anything else or a radio station. And it's so much riper for abuse and so harder to track that I think the way they sell political advertising has to be regulated. I think how they do a lot of their data collection needs to be, but that's another issue. But they definitely haven't been regulated in any way around political advertising. And I'll be a free speech question, everything else.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's awesome. Looking forward to it. So my question actually is that given that some of the big tech companies have in part due to their failures in putting in the adequate protections have really caused American democracy some harm, especially in 2016, do you think this is a reason for those companies to actually work closely with the government to perhaps, I guess, build out some more safety features into their election infrastructure to improve, you know, as you mentioned, just like election security or any of these private companies contracting the government to do this sort of work or dedicating any R&D resources? And on that note, what do you think about the potential for any sorts of emerging technologies to protect elections? I know there's a big people talk about blockchain voting.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One thing though is that a lot of the weaponization everybody catches up, everyone knows the tricks that they use and then they catch them and the question is what's the next trick? Trick. You know, you saw the Pelosi video, which worked for a second, but there's going to be more sophisticated versions of that for sure. And it only needs just a second. It just needs to be timed exactly right, just the way the Clinton emails came out right after the pussy grabbing thing. Like that was so obviously timed. in a lot of ways. So that's what you just need to do just a small kind of little stuff that'll affect and then you'll never know. And that's the whole point of it. The Russians just want to create discord and go ghost-like that you never see it. And then they leave. And then you don't know which was real and which wasn't. That's the whole point right here.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, part of the challenge is that building that kind of trust and relationship takes time, but we're on a clock. And so that's to me one of the bigger worries that we have. And so in many ways, I look at this as actually not just a 2020 problem, but it's an ongoing problem of how do you build the trust across that entire infrastructure that we need in order to actually deal with these problems over the long term, because this is not going away.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think that one of the challenges that we have in this area is that there's a lot of distrust that you see between state and local election officials and the federal government. There's a lot of distrust between election officials and the cybersecurity industry. There's distrust with the vendors that actually sell the voting machines and all of those sorts of things. To me, the money just makes that more difficult, right? Because it makes people suspicious of other people's motives. So if you're an election official and you've now got 17 cybersecurity companies that are showing up saying, sure, we know how to solve your problem, but we actually haven't talked to any of your people to understand what your problem is, but just by our widget, that's not conducive to building the kind of relationship that we need for actually improving cybersecurity.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. I mean, you can imagine several of the disruptors, so Iran, North Korea, you've also got various interest groups. So the hacktivist groups or terrorist groups that would have an interest in doing this as well. So there's going to be a lot of people that learn from this, you know, this playbook. And you'll see it not just here in the United States, you'll see it play out in other places. I mean, I'm fully expecting to see this play out in elections in South America and in Africa and other places like that.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think it's certainly from their perspective, they very much want to argue for moral equivalence between what they do and the United States. The Russians are very, very good at this because they've been pursuing this for hundreds of years. The Tsars were past masters at information manipulation, and that's been something that has been part of the Russian political tradition for a very long time. But they won't be the only players in the game”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the nation continues to be Russia. From your perspective, or are there other nations only? Because it seems to me that they lost the original Cold War and this is a way to win it in a different way.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it could be a lot of different things. I mean, it could be a discovery that, in fact, you've had a major penetration of several voter registration databases in several different states. It could be the discovery that we've actually had a very well sort of orchestrated seeding of bad information to legitimate users so that what's actually happening is the actual people spreading the information are legitimate users, but it's all been seeded from a bad source.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's always some So I think there's a couple of things. One is there needs to be much better communication flow so that you actually have the ability to identify problems early and surface that and combine information from various sources. And then you want to actually really start to work on those incident response plans so that you know what you're going to do when the bad day happens so that you're not making it up as you go.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's almost impossible these days because the twitchy nature of. Reporting everything is all equal, essentially. We're just not reporting it. That's almost impossible. There's always some outlet. And then lastly, what is, right?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think from a citizen standpoint, it's to start this education process, to be critical and to think about what you're actually seeing and not be passive consumers of information. That has always been true, by the way. It just happens to be more relevant now because we're awash in information as opposed to actually having to really work at getting information. I think from a government point of view, particularly at the state and local level, continuing to invest in increased cybersecurity and figuring out how the state and local governments can work with the federal government and with the cybersecurity industry to actually be both proactive and improving our security, but also developing the incident response plan so that we're ready if something goes bad. And then, you know, I think really from a media standpoint, it's really also”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh my god, Jesus. Anyway, I'm not going to give you an easy one on that. But I'm not going to talk about this administration because obviously they're not interested in this topic. But what do you need to do as citizens, the media, and government? The one thing each of them has to do, and then let's get some questions from the audience.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, also Brad Parscale would cry big weepy tears. So that's his jam right now. All right, we're going to get to questions in a minute, but lastly, I want to show you about what are you the most you think is the most critical that citizens do and government officials do right now that has to happen before the 20? I mean, being cynical is not really a defense. Like, we're not Russians. We shouldn't have to read from the back. We should assume that the stuff in the front is the actual news. What do you imagine the media have to do? Well, I'm not going to say the president because he just does attack. He's trying to undermine from what I can tell with his Sharpie today with the weather maps. I mean, he'll undermine anything. Did you all see that news?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Worked rather well I actually do because I think that anytime you're starting to suppress kind of that political speech, I think that's a very dangerous precedent to set. And I would very much want to look at other solutions before we get to that point. Yeah.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which seems insane at this point, you know, but I think that we should definitely explore some other of those rather than just trying to block that political outlet entirely.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that beyond just sort of takedown or removal, I think we actually ought to really think about sort of other modes as well, which is sort of flagging much more of that content and thinking about providing additional information, maybe even countervailing points so that the old concept of equal time, right, that the media used to have to do.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, Dr. Google is what they say, where people Google their whatever malady they have. But in this case, I think they have. Yeah, I think they have. But in this case, it has actual, it's just a doctor being irritated by someone and too bad. When you think about that, should political advertising be removed then from social media, given how much it amplifies it compared? You couldn't put those things that were on Facebook on a television station. You can't put them on a radio station. It doesn't have one, the impact, and two, you just can't do it. Should companies like Facebook and others who are making enormous amounts of money from political advertising just not be able to have it until they can handle it”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It has more resonance, but if you ask any doctor what they think their least favorite thing is, and they'll probably tell you WebMD.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Technological education or media education. That's right. And I think that what applies in media education more broadly is what we also need in this area. I don't think that the election information is that different from other kinds of information online.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the only stuff that was on the front page was the propaganda that the government wanted you to read. So you start with stuff at the back, because that was where it might actually be interesting. If you also think about how we look at 19th century advertising We usually laugh at it because it's pretty simplistic. And if you ask my 10 and 8-year-old, is everything that you see in that advertisement true? They would tell you no. They know that already at this age because they've been exposed to it from a very early age and we have taught that not everything you see in an advertisement is going to be true. And so I think those start to hint at where we can start to build resilience to...”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So this gets at when you think about disinformation, this is really about how are you feeding into people's confirmation biases. How are we thinking about critical thinking about information that we get? Now there's actually some interesting things that provide some insight and some possibilities into this. So there's some work that's been done that shows, for example, that in certain populations that have been subjected to this over long periods of time, they actually get better at being resistant to it. And so there's actually an old story if you're an old Russia hand and you talk to Russians who were there during the Soviet period, you will actually notice that all Russians of that age read their newspapers from back to front. Because if there was any actual news in the newspaper, it was on the back page.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the truth is, we've now got lots of data that shows there's about a residual 3% to 4% of the population that will click on the link.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's human psychology, right? I mean, so there are now lots of studies about, I mean, so all of you probably have gotten the cybersecurity training, usually some really boring video with, you know, somebody I don't click on the link.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, this is a much harder problem to think about because you're actually dealing with a whole lot of stuff that actually has nothing to do with technology. You're talking about people”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT