YouSaid · the spoken record

Michael Daniel

lines on the record: 99
first: 2019-10-02
most recent: 2019-10-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Putting So, my worry about that is that if you can track your vote, I can track your vote. And so the whole reason we have secret ballots is so that people feel comfortable taking controversial positions. And so that makes me a little bit nervous. I do think that having auditors.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Whatever they could. Yeah. Or even just that you DDoS that, right? You know, so that those beautiful red blue maps that the news, the major networks like to carry suddenly just don't show anything on election night. Does that actually impact the overall actual certified result down the road? No. But it sure makes it look like things are really bad that night.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's voter registration. It's also tally. How do you actually communicate the tallies from the individual publing places? How do you actually in many jurisdictions? That's a pretty fancy piece of software called Excel that is used to do the vote tallying.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I certainly think that that is a critical component of it. Although, again, the voting machines to me are the least of our problems. I'm much more worried about an adversary going into a voter registration database and flipping the second and fourth digits of everybody's address So now that when you show up to the polls, your address on your driver's license does not match the address in the poll book. So you either can't vote or you have to do a provisional ballot long lines start forming, reporters come outside, cameras everywhere, now you've got chaos, right? And that's what's reported. Those are the kinds of things that I'm worried about. So how do you actually upgrade the system to ensure that you've got data integrity in the system? And so that if changes are made that are not authorized, you actually are aware of those.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What is the best way to do it? I just looked at one, I was just about Microsoft and was looking at an encrypted voting machine that also had this incredible thing called paper that they're using. And everyone was extoling the virtues of a paper trail to be able to match. The digital one”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we need to continue to invest in the end to end security of the electoral infrastructure. And what that means is upgrading the security of voter registration databases. And this is not usually terribly hard. I mean, this is not esoteric cybersecurity stuff. This is very much the basics. It's ensuring that you've actually got protections on both So as voters register, but then also how you produce the poll books, then you actually tally the results and report the results. And so thinking about that from end to end and upgrading the security of that across the United States.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right. And I think that that's something that we actually need to actively think about and manage rather than just sort of letting it happen to us.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Retention policies and actually make decisions about what data to keep. Well, what data to collect in the first place, but then what data to keep and when to get rid of it would actually really help because it cuts down on the things that”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because if people's privacy, if they're personally identifiable information is leaking, if organizations PII is leaking, then it's hard to have good cybersecurity. And in fact, if you have cyber nerd like me when an organization talks to me about information, the best information is the information they don't have because then I don't have to protect it. Thinking about those kinds of questions about like what's your data retention policy? How long are you, I mean, this is one of the issues that we found when we worked with both federal agencies and now when I've in the private sector looking at these things, you often discover that the organization in question has these giant pools of data that nobody has looked at in years floating around their organization because it was just easier to keep stuff forever than actually decide how to deal with the data. And so actually requiring organizations to have data.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think that it's you have to start thinking about that in terms of when you're thinking about new regulations for medical devices, this is one area where the FDA has actually done a really good job of looking at when you start thinking about connected devices, they're actually building cybersecurity requirements into the regulation. But what we don't quite know yet is how to do that in certain industries. We're still at the beginning of how you actually integrate effective cybersecurity into those industries.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That right there could actually make a major dent in a fair amount of the malicious activity online. Now, will the bad guys adapt to that? Of course, but we can at least make it harder for them. So that's one big area that we actually need to do. We also need to think about how we think about our critical infrastructure and beginning to do what some of the industries have done. Healthcare actually being a lead in this is actually saying you've got to pay attention. You have a responsibility in addition to your responsibility for safety. You also have a responsibility for privacy. You also have a cybersecurity responsibility as well. that you start to actually think of that as a i think of that as the you know as the big triangle safety privacy and cybersecurity and you actually can't have one of those without the other two”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's no upside for them. If they happen to drop something that actually was important to somebody, they get sued, right? And so what we need to be thinking about is how do we actually create an incentive structure for our ISPs and our telecommunications carriers to actually do some of that traffic filtering on the known bad stuff that everybody would agree is actually bad. And this is not even about content. This is about dealing with known obvious bot traffic or known malware traffic that you can easily identify.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think there's a few things. One is that when you talk about cybersecurity, one of the things that I think we actually ought to look at is the, if you will, the social contract between the government, the citizens, and our telecommunications industry and our internet service providers. Because the truth is we actually know what a lot of the bad traffic looks like. And the truth is that with some investment, our telecommunications carriers could actually just drop a lot of that on the floor. So that it never actually gets to people. But they don't because there is no incentive for, there's only downsides for them doing it.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or not leading regulation in any way whatsoever, even though the companies are all US based. So talk about what, so all that exists, I think, is Section 230, which is good for tech, essentially, which is an immunity, a kind of immunity. And there's little chips on it, but most people don't feel it should be overturned. What do you see as critical to cybersecurity? There's any number of things that you could do from a consumer privacy bill, which would be protective of people's data. From a cybersecurity point of view, what are the critical things that need to be done and where are they? Right now. There's a lot of election security stuff that apparently Moscow Mitch is at his nickname.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In Australia, New Zealand and other places, right? And so I think that the US is going to have to play catch-up in that area.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which was section 230, which we've talked about. I think now what you're beginning to see is that pendulum shift. Now it shifted in other places faster than here in the United States. So we actually have seen that in Europe.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think that when you put it in that broader political context, it's actually not surprising that this brand new industry that was driven by rapid innovation could make an argument that says don't regulate us because you're going to kill the innovation. And they got the...”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, when you put it in the broader, if you look at when did tech actually emerge in the United States as a major industry? So it starts really taking off in the late 1980s, mid-1980s, right? So this is just at the period when the US has decided that we're going to deregulate a whole bunch of stuff. So you have the deregulation of the airline industry, for example, in 1978. And then you have the Reagan administration comes in and really starts to push this agenda and sort of this deregulatory approach that is actually continues to this day”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For the energy grid All right, so when you think about the idea of an industry which compromises the richest people in the world and the most powerful companies in the world and the richest valuation, I think seven of the top valued companies are now tech companies, seven or eight of the top richest people in the world are tech people. The idea that we're even discussing lack of any regulation seems fascinating to me, but talk about where we need to think about that because the argument government isn't going to get it right is sort of lost among tech certainly hasn't gotten it right at all by their self whatever they call self-regulation, which to me means no regulation.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Correct. Zero. I think Completely. And that is probably true. And certainly, if you look at other industries like healthcare devices or the energy grid or things like that. And so certainly there is this question of ultimately are there things that we need to put in place and both incentives and sticks, if you will, that I think that is a very live and real policy debate that we should have.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure, but sure, but let me just say just for the crowd, there is no regulation right now. Correct. Zero. I think Wall Street has more regulation on how they do their bathrooms than tech has completely. And that is probably.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Where we are now, what we have to do. Yeah, I mean, I think that I spent a very long time at the Office of Management and Budget as part of my career. And so I have a very cautious view towards regulation because the government's ability to get that right is often Poor. Sure, but sure. Let me just say”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You've got to be kidding me. So then what we talked about was, all right, are there ways that you can actually try to adapt the platform? And I would say that now when you engage with Facebook, when you engage with Google, when you engage with those kinds of platforms, there is now a much greater willingness to actually have that discussion.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So the government's talking dirty to tech right now, when you're saying that to them, when they wouldn't understand that, what was your next sentence? Mine is always Are you frigging kidding? You've got to be kidding me.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And do massive recruitment efforts from this thing. And the look he gave me was it was so clear that the idea that anybody would ever take this information and use it in that way had never crossed his mind. It had never occurred to him that somebody might misuse the information to actually try to recruit someone as an intelligence asset.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so if you think about a different service that was out there, the way that you could combine and collect and see certain information online. And we were talking with the founder and the CEO of this particular company and was extolling all the virtues of this. And I looked at him and I said, this is like an intelligence officer's wet dream. This is like fabulous because this is like a treasure trove of information of exactly how I can target people who are vulnerable.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, the idea that there are no consequences, the inability to anticipate possible consequences is something I talk about a lot or any kind of self-reflection of what right now there's a new book by Brad Smith from Microsoft. It's called Tools and Weapons. So any technology can be used as a tool or weapon like fire or a knife or something that it can be used for cutting bread or killing someone. They do say that. I do not believe them when they say it because I think they're adults that can anticipate possible problems. But you do think it's something within tech. Tell me a meeting. Give me an example of a meeting. Like you go to Facebook, you get your fresh granola, your oat milk. What happens next?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's possible. There's an interesting strain that runs through a lot of tech and a lot of online platforms. And I actually saw this multiple times. When we would engage with a platform that had been misused for the first time. And you would talk to them, and since many of them are driven by this idea of making the world better through technology, it never occurred to them that somebody would actually take their technology and use it to harm someone. And so I think that there were, I don't think it was stupid. I think there were blinders and there were biases there against the idea of weaponizing this platform that was in the minds of those that were working on it so clearly for the greater good.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that had I been in charge of the whole political apparatus at that point, I probably would have pushed for more aggressive outreach. Both to the state and local officials, but also in general, to start talking about the issues of how we think about information and the potential for disruption.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Attacking American democracy by giving them publicity about attacking American democracy, are we essentially just doing their work for them for free? And that was the debate that went on inside the administration with a lot of pushing and pulling about how aggressive to be about broadcasting what we thought was going on. And you also have to remember that this picture is we now have a much clearer picture, you know, looking back at it, but at the time we were sort of assembling a puzzle in the dark with some fog around. And so we were trying to put the pieces together as we were going along”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Impacting an election at scale Doing it surreptitiously so that nobody notices starts to become a really hard problem because you actually have to get physical access to the machines You have to change just enough votes so that nobody thinks there's something fishy going on. You have to pick the places where the voting is actually going to be close enough to do that, where it would matter. We didn't even do a very good job of figuring that out before the election ourselves, let alone a foreign power doing that. So you start thinking, well, that doesn't seem like a terribly reasonable thing. But if what you want to do is undermine confidence in the vote If what you want to do is undermine Americans' confidence in democracy. If you want to be able to claim moral equivalence with the United States, then you have a much broader set of things that you can do. And so then that leads you to this question of, okay, so if we publicize very loudly what the Russians are doing, are we doing their work for them? If what they're seeking is publicity about”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So the question that you always have, right, is what is the Russian's goal? What did we assess to be their goal? And one of the things that you see is that the place where a lot of people had focused was on the voting machines Because those are very visible. It's the way that most people actually interact with the election infrastructure, because that's what most people see. And we'd had DEF CON had already run an entire hacking village there.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that was actually an unexpected move in the US political context. Now, you were right that there were those who argued that because of what they had been doing in Ukraine and because of how they had weaponized some of the information in Poland and Bulgaria and a few other places that we should have been more forward-leaning on that. But that was an unexpected move in the US political process. And so that was actually what kicked off a much more aggressive campaign within the US government to actually look at what was happening and begin to try to do some of that outreach that you were talking about.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Quarterbacks. Well, that's why, you know, it's, I mean, I think the part of it, right? So, for example, if you take a step back and you look at the history of spying on political campaigns. The Russians had spied on every major US political campaign since the 1930s. So they had targeted every campaign since the 1930s. So the idea that the Russians would be spying on the major political campaigns for president was actually, yes, okay, we know that that's going to happen, right? And so it wasn't terribly surprising when the first indication started that the Russians were doing what we expected them to do, which was try to spy on the political campaigns. What was new was then actually taking the information and weaponizing it. They had never done that before.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, so this backdrop first, there was the Snowden, then the encryption. When Cambridge Analytica was happening, parts of the government were aware of the rush, the increasing Russian incursions. Was there enough warning to, you know, and then you had the Hillary Clinton emails? It just went on and on and on. And I'm leaving out the Sony hacks, which happened before that. That's just fun. Yeah, I'm sure those were, which should have been a sign because it was corporate attacks on corporations, which is happening with bots and everything else. But how would you assess going into these things? What I'm trying to get to is if the relationship between tech and government is bad.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Since the unicorn does not actually exist, you have to start thinking about what the next best solution is. And that means you're actually making a, that's not a technical issue, that's a policy and political issue that we have to make as a society about where we want to put that line and how much risk are we willing to take on one side or the other? And are there alternatives that you can follow, mitigations that you can choose to do, but it always comes down to a risk and how much risk and how much impact are you willing to have on one side or the other?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think I'm actually old enough that this was the second iteration of the crypto wars that I had been through. You know, people older than me talk about this was actually the third iteration. It probably is the nth degree of this, right? This has always been a tension within the idea of cryptography itself. I think that the frustration that I certainly had as we worked through looking at these issues is the challenge that everybody wants the unicorn. Everybody wants the crypto that is perfect except when you actually need it to be accessed because there's a real bad guy”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so Snowden was followed then by the encryption fight that President Obama was, Jim Comey was, although not everybody was Ash Carter. Giving it up. It also again created a lack of cooperation between tech companies and the government, which is necessary to fend off the Russians. Where would you disagree with that?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And they were also becoming just much more aggressive. And they had decided on a much more aggressive foreign policy at that point.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Certainly a sea change in Russian behavior starting in the 2013-2014 timeframe. Prior to that, if you manage to find the Russians someplace, they vanished. And they would just disappear, and you would lose sight of them for months or years until they would pop back up. Starting in 2014, they had a very different attitude. It was like a double dog dare you to kick me out of this network that you would find them someplace and they would actually contest control. We had never seen that kind of behavior before. And it was coupled with a much more aggressive stance globally. Both in Ukraine with what went on with”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it created a real gulf between tech and the government at a time that was critical, I think, where a lot of the Russians had started in 2013 to really focus in on the efforts they made that later came to fruition in 2016.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So this is a very complicated issue, right? Because from my view, and this is not probably a position that's very popular out here on the West Coast, Snowden was a trader. He had sworn an oath to protect the information that he released. That said, there were clearly practices that were going on that should not have been. And the need to fix some of those issues was very, very real. I just think that the way that it was done was completely inappropriate and damaged a lot of other things, not just our relationship with tech, not just relations with other countries, but actually actively put people's lives at risk around the world. And so that's why I have a very complex sort of feeling about what occurred.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, I was there And within a couple of months, I actually had to go to Germany and deliver remarks at a big conference in Berlin, and that was a lot of fun immediately after those.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't. So I want to talk about the Obama administration's response to a lot of this because a lot of it Happened during the Obama administration. Let's begin with the Snowden situation, which was revealed during the Obama administration, and it put a permanent, the relationship between tech and government is always going to be tense, obviously. But that put a permanent problem at the beginning of that. How did you look upon that? Because I think The tech people I talked to, I think they were surprised and shocked by the extent of government spying on them, even though that's what they do as a business plan for regular citizens. But talk about that, the impact of that. Were you there during that period?”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, my official title was Special Assistant to the President and Cybersecurity Coordinator on the National Security Council staff, which is a very long name. But what it really meant was I was really responsible for three things. One was I was responsible for briefing the president and other senior advisors in the White House and keeping them up to speed with what was going on in cybersecurity issues. Two, I was responsible for ensuring that the U.S. had a coherent policy approach to cybersecurity across the entire federal government. And three, I was in charge of managing our response to significant cybersecurity incidents like the attack on Sony Pictures, like the DDoS attacks on our banks, and the Russian interference in our election.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And there are huge vulnerabilities that are still left in our electoral infrastructure, which we can talk about what that means and how I think we need to address that. And we still have no earthly idea how to really deal with fake information and manipulation of information and the weaponization of information in cyberspace. And so that's still very much a big topic of discussion at a lot of places, and I haven't seen any really good answers.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, the good news first. The good news is that we're a lot better off than we were in 2016 for several different reasons. One is that our state and local governments have actually made some tremendous investments in improving their cybersecurity. The federal government has gotten itself much better organized to help state and local governments. Almost any agency you talk to in the federal government right now has this as a very high priority. We all as a society are much more aware of the potential for fake news and disinformation or disinformatia. The bad news where you still got a long way to go.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I've been talking a lot to policy people this year, and especially the last few weeks about a range of policies around employment, around talent, around AI, all kinds of stuff. And just recently have started to focus in on the 2020 elections. I was just at Facebook recently. Obviously, there was a news story today that they're meeting with someone in the government to talk about what they're doing, Twitter, Facebook, and Google. So I wanted sort of get your overall lay of the land of where you think we are right now, because there's been so many worries about election tampering around fake news, disinformation, you know, voting machines. You could go on.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 month plan required, $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra.”
2019-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Obama's cybersecurity chief Michael Daniel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT